California Medical Misinformation Bill

[Angus Avagadro]

Don’t forget the psychosis and delusions from the vax

And did I hear you say “global”?

Yep. Biden has had both injections and boosted twice. I think you are on to something.😉

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[nimbus]

Yep. Biden has had both injections and boosted twice. I think you are on to something.😉

I remember a time when it was called the “Trump vaccine”, project warpspeed and all that.

 

[deleted875186]

Significant increase in suicides esp in kids and drug addiction. We will have to agree to disagree. Lost trillions of dollars and global supply chain issues due to society and economy shutting down. Mainly elderly people died. Not worth shutting down the US.

Are you suggesting psychosis, increased rates of addiction, and other mental health issues are a result of the lockdown or are you saying you think it’s related to the vaccine….

Hopefully your not suggesting the vaccine, lacks biological mechanism.

And if you suggest it’s from a lockdown, how can you tell it’s not from the stress of a pandemic itself, anxiety around getting sick, or multiple other life stressors that happened during the pandemic? Also, consider that 60% of the population got vaccinated, will be very hard to say anecdotally that your seeing more of a specific illness than usual.

 

[McPoyle]

They chose to protect themselves by not getting the injection. Think about how big of a decision that was for these physicians and nurses to refuse. Even Djokovic, a top tennis player, is having consequences for this. And they all stick steadfast.

They made their choice, time for them to stop pretending to be victims. They knew the consequences of their poor decision making, can’t say I lose even a second of sleep over these asshats.

 

[PikminOC]

Are you suggesting psychosis, increased rates of addiction, and other mental health issues are a result of the lockdown or are you saying you think it’s related to the vaccine….

Hopefully your not suggesting the vaccine, lacks biological mechanism.

And if you suggest it’s from a lockdown, how can you tell it’s not from the stress of a pandemic itself, anxiety around getting sick, or multiple other life stressors that happened during the pandemic? Also, consider that 60% of the population got vaccinated, will be very hard to say anecdotally that your seeing more of a specific illness than usual.

You're right. What do I know? I'm just a feeble stupid psychiatrist.

 

[PikminOC]

They made their choice, time for them to stop pretending to be victims. They knew the consequences of their poor decision making, can’t say I lose even a second of sleep over these asshats.

I'm not saying they're victims. I'm saying they lost a lot to make this choice for freedom from the mandates.

 

[McPoyle]

I'm not saying they're victims. I'm saying they lost a lot to make this choice for freedom from the mandates.

They didn’t lose anything, they voluntarily walked away from a job.

 

[PikminOC]

They didn’t lose anything, they voluntarily walked away from a job.

And northshore had to pay them for it

 

[chessknt]

We all know that the legal system only yields just and appropriate results and that by paying a settlement they clearly must have been guilty instead of trying to minimize legal costs, especially in class action suits. Yep, that is definitely the right take--a victory for vaccine deniers who have fictitious religious beliefs on only this specific vaccine.

 

[Neopolymath]

This thread reminds me of those redneck L&D nurses who would constantly talk about how COVID was fake and stuff like that not more than 20 feet from a make shift disaster hospital outside their window where we were traching, coding, and announcing people over and over and over every single day for months.

How is it possible that some of us, as physicians and scientists supposedly, had such contrasting experiences, and therefore opinions on the past few years, that I question if they are just trolling because their posts are so ridiculous?

 

[anaesthetic]

This thread reminds me of those redneck L&D nurses who would constantly talk about how COVID was fake and stuff like that not more than 20 feet from a make shift disaster hospital outside their window where we were traching, coding, and announcing people over and over and over every single day for months.

How is it possible that some of us, as physicians and scientists supposedly, had such contrasting experiences, and therefore opinions on the past few years, that I question if they are just trolling because their posts are so ridiculous?

I would appreciate it if someone could find me an example of an ICU physician, ECMO/MCS specialist, or a cardiac anesthesiologist who thinks COVID was a hoax (I personally know some anesthesiologists who think COVID was no big deal; they also mostly work at outpatient surgery centers).

Trying to save these sick as hell patients (some of whom were anti-vaccine) for a couple of years while family medicine docs, pediatricians, rheumatologists, and psychiatrists (?) conveniently deny the impact of COVID from their office chairs is really a spit in the face for the rest of us who have actually been in the thick of it.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I know the feeling of having to intubate a COVID positive patient emergently (before any vaccine was available), having great difficulty and having to mask ventilate in-between attempts in a patient with a large beard, hoping that my double mask/N95 was enough to keep me safe so that I could not die before my pregnant wife gave birth to our child. I remember thinking, “Man, this could be it for me right here.” All those years of education, training, and sacrifice that lead up to this moment, only for me to die doing my job.

I don’t have much sympathy for the “woe is me, I’m being persecuted for my beliefs” crowd. GTFO.

 

[GassYous]

Significant increase in suicides esp in kids and drug addiction. We will have to agree to disagree. Lost trillions of dollars and global supply chain issues due to society and economy shutting down. Mainly elderly people died. Not worth shutting down the US.

As someone who was there in New York when everything was going down, this is a psycho take and no one should take you seriously. When your entire hospital is covid patients only with gift shops, cafeterias and preop areas being turned into makeship icus with double boarded patients all on vents and running out of everything constantly while being in fear of your life every time you intubate a patient you see things differently. Our ED was processing 100+ walkins and 100+ transfers every day of just covid and that was with the lockdowns. And we weren't even close to being the busiest hospital.

 

[PikminOC]

As someone who was there in New York when everything was going down, this is a psycho take and no one should take you seriously. When your entire hospital is covid patients only with gift shops, cafeterias and preop areas being turned into makeship icus with double boarded patients all on vents and running out of everything constantly while being in fear of your life every time you intubate a patient you see things differently. Our ED was processing 100+ walkins and 100+ transfers every day of just covid and that was with the lockdowns. And we weren't even close to being the busiest hospital.

Yep and your leaders sent sick patients back to their nursing homes.

 

[PikminOC]

I'm not saying covid is a hoax. I'm saying the mandates should not have been put in. They have far reaching consequences as I have listed above.

 

[nimbus]

I'm not saying covid is a hoax. I'm saying the mandates should not have been put in. They have far reaching consequences as I have listed above.

You should publish a case series on vaccine induced psychosis and delusions since you’re seeing so much of it. That is what you said, correct?

 

[PikminOC]

You should publish a case series on vaccine induced psychosis and delusions since you’re seeing so much of it. That is what you said, correct?

You can use pubmed as well as I can. First episode psychosis following receipt of first dose of COVID-19 vaccine: A case report

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353761787_Can_new_onset_psychosis_occur_after_mRNA_based_COVID-19_vaccine_administration_A_case_report

https://wchh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pnp.723

 

[nimbus]

You can use pubmed as well as I can. First episode psychosis following receipt of first dose of COVID-19 vaccine: A case report

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353761787_Can_new_onset_psychosis_occur_after_mRNA_based_COVID-19_vaccine_administration_A_case_report

https://wchh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pnp.723

Those are all single case reports. I suggested you publish a series because you claim to have seen many cases. And the actual infection is more likely to cause encephalitis than the vaccine.

 

[PikminOC]

Those a single case reports. I suggested you publish a series because you claim to have seen many cases.

It starts with single reports. But they will continue to add up. I also am not in academia and don't get paid for writing reports for publication.

 

[nimbus]

It starts with single reports. But they will continue to add up. I also am not in academia and don't get paid for writing reports for publication.

If you are seeing so many cases, I’m sure some academic could come up with a 3-4 case series. How many cases have you actually seen?

 

[chessknt]

As someone who was there in New York when everything was going down, this is a psycho take and no one should take you seriously. When your entire hospital is covid patients only with gift shops, cafeterias and preop areas being turned into makeship icus with double boarded patients all on vents and running out of everything constantly while being in fear of your life every time you intubate a patient you see things differently. Our ED was processing 100+ walkins and 100+ transfers every day of just covid and that was with the lockdowns. And we weren't even close to being the busiest hospital.

The people who hold these views dont take care of dying people. If they have ever seen someone die it was many years ago as a medical student. You bet your ass they were nowhere near anyone who had covid when it first started and probably for years after (if they have ever been near an active symptomatic covid). The fact that these people feel entitled to render an opinion that criticized our ****ty response as too severe just goes to show you how powerful the partisan media can be. Completely overwrites a decade of training and the importance of respect for expertise because they read some right winger blog that said that 99.99% of the population didn't die and it was a huge waste of resources to try to curb the rampant infection rate. Nobody who was in the **** thinks our response was too severe.

 

[gunnershow]

I personally ran a makeshift COVID ICU in our PACU and I think mandating a vaccine that does almost nothing to prevent transmission, for a disease that is uniformly mild in those without comorbidities was nonsensical. A lot of credibility was lost over that.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I personally ran a makeshift COVID ICU in our PACU and I think mandating a vaccine that does almost nothing to prevent transmission, for a disease that is uniformly mild in those without comorbidities was nonsensical. A lot of credibility was lost over that.

Except that in the beginning the vaccine did do that.

 

[epidural man]

This thread reminds me of those redneck L&D nurses who would constantly talk about how COVID was fake and stuff like that not more than 20 feet from a make shift disaster hospital outside their window where we were traching, coding, and announcing people over and over and over every single day for months.

How is it possible that some of us, as physicians and scientists supposedly, had such contrasting experiences, and therefore opinions on the past few years, that I question if they are just trolling because their posts are so ridiculous?

yeah, this is what this thread sounds like to me.

It starts with a post about a vague, new law that seems to give the government the power to prosecute people it disagrees with without clear language about WHO it actually targets - but is vaguely linked to COVID and misinformation.

Person - what a great law. So many dumb people regarding COVID

Person - yeah, but doesn’t this law overreach a little? Do we really want the government to have that much power?

Person - misinformation was a real problem with COVID

Person - true. But the problem is, without reliable and definitive data, it is sometimes hard to really tell what is misinformation, right?

Person - you anti-COVID and anti-vaxers are all the same. COVID was hell. How can you not recognize that?

Person - Actually, I'm vaccinated and think it was a miracle it came along so quickly. Thank goodness. I’m just saying that as new information came available, we perhaps should have demanded a data-driven approach, and demand that decisions were science and study based.

Person - Everything that was known was fact and undisputable and the Lord Fauci made wonderful choices (This is hyperbole…I just think it is funny. No one has mentioned Fauci.)


Person - Well, for example, when we didn’t know if the virus was droplets or airborne, it made sense to assume it was droplet spread and wear masks. Once we determined it was airborne, perhaps we should have then started asking serious science based questions. We didn’t know if masks stopped THIS respiratory virus, but since regular masks (not N95 type) have never had any effect on ANY respiratory virus ever in the history of viruses, perhaps we should have been more critical in our approach. This is just one example of a thousand questions the decision makers should have asked and tried to answer during this now endemic virus mess.

Person - HOW CAN YOU EVEN SAY SUCH THINGS! PEOPLE WERE DYING IN THE ICUS. I WAS THERE. IT WAS HORRIBLE! YOU ANTI-VAXERS ARE ALL THE SAME! AND SOME OF YOU ARE DOCTORS! UNBELIEVABLE!


******

That is how this extremely frustrating thread reads to me. I’m sure it reads completely different to a lot of you.

I think to you it sounds like

Person: The vaccine saved lives.

Person: THE VACCINE IS DANGEROUS AND THE FASCIST LEFT MADE ME DO IT. GO TRUMP!

 

[deleted875186]

It starts with single reports. But they will continue to add up. I also am not in academia and don't get paid for writing reports for publication.

I like case reports, they are thought provoking, but realize that many people have padded their CV by publishing a bunch of crap about Covid because journals are accepting it.

A few of those articles have poorly worked up patients. As noted above, 60% of the population was vaccinated, so chances are most of the new onset psychosis cases yojr seeing are vaccinated, because 60% of the population is vaccinated, it does not suggest causation.

What about all the life stressors from Covid. Maybe people were smoking more marijuana cause they’re home all day. Maybe they were just laid off. There’s a reason case reports are not often accepted, especially with the cases above were there was little workup.

 

[anaesthetic]

I personally ran a makeshift COVID ICU in our PACU and I think mandating a vaccine that does almost nothing to prevent transmission, for a disease that is uniformly mild in those without comorbidities was nonsensical. A lot of credibility was lost over that.

A disease that is uniformly mild but killed over a million people in the US including young, healthy people with no comorbidities (?). Did nothing to prevent transmission but blunted the disease enough to slow down admissions so that we could stop treating patients in makeshift ICUs in the giftshop or cafeteria (?). Okay, buddy.

It’s okay to be critical of “the gubment response” and worry about “muh freedoms,” but let’s not pretend the vaccine did nothing at all.

“I got the miracle vaccine but but but the gubment” is such a disconnected response to the actual reality and implications of mandating the vaccine. That maneuver saved many lives and de-burdened many hospital systems over time despite its potential overreach.

But anyway, thank you, Lord Supreme Leader Fauci for blessing us with your vaccine. Please take away more of my freedoms.

 

[nimbus]

Withdrawing because of the new curriculum. Most unchill.

I personally ran a makeshift COVID ICU in our PACU and I think mandating a vaccine that does almost nothing to prevent transmission, for a disease that is uniformly mild in those without comorbidities was nonsensical. A lot of credibility was lost over that.

You were a premed/started med school in 2014 and personally “ran” a COVID ICU in a PACU in 2020? Sounds credible.

 

[gunnershow]

You were a premed/started med school in 2014 and personally “ran” a COVID ICU in a PACU in 2020? Sounds credible.

And I take it you dutifully selected your exact birthdate when you browsed for porno as a teenager? No one submits information that can dox them to a website like SDN... but if you'd like a photo of my grey hairs, I'm happy to oblige

 

[nimbus]

And I take it you dutifully selected your exact birthdate when you browsed for porno as a teenager? No one submits information that can dox them to a website like SDN... but if you'd like a photo of my grey hairs, I'm happy to oblige

Sadly we didn’t have free online porn when I was a teenager


It’s not doxxing. Don’t worry, you’re still anonymous. Nobody has any idea who you are. From your own posts on SDN, all we know is that you didn’t start med school until 2014, you didn’t attend stony brook, you were very precocious and did a very accelerated pathway, and personally ran a COVID ICU in 2020. I’m just calling out your BS. It’s ironic that you brought up credibility in your post.

 

[gunnershow]

Sadly we didn’t have free online porn when I was a teenager


It’s not doxxing. Don’t worry, you’re still anonymous. Nobody has any idea who you are. From your own posts on SDN, all we know is that you didn’t start med school until 2014, you didn’t attend stony brook, you were very precocious and did a very accelerated pathway, and personally ran a COVID ICU in 2020. I’m just calling out your BS. It’s ironic that you brought up credibility in your post.

I had my own reasons for making that post in 2014. Everyone knows that there are those online who have nothing better to do than stalk and pore over people's histories, so naturally they fudge the details they do post. The timeline you've created in your head is way off, but it does me no good to correct it.

 

[vector2]

I had my own reasons for making that post in 2014……so naturally they fudge the details they do post.

So you were either lying then or lying now. In either case you don’t have credibility when it comes to this mythical COVID ICU you supposedly ran.

 

[chessknt]

I had my own reasons for making that post in 2014. Everyone knows that there are those online who have nothing better to do than stalk and pore over people's histories, so naturally they fudge the details they do post. The timeline you've created in your head is way off, but it does me no good to correct it.

I hope you used your role as the director of the pacuicu to inform your admin about your beliefs of the uniformly mild disease except oh wait who are we kidding you've had a persecution complex since before Obama.

If anyone has hopes that this country can somehow come together this thread is an excellent reminder of that delusion. Multiple people who are ostensibly doctors who probably voted for Trump because they thought our response to covid was excessive....

 

[nimbus]

I had my own reasons for making that post in 2014. Everyone knows that there are those online who have nothing better to do than stalk and pore over people's histories, so naturally they fudge the details they do post. The timeline you've created in your head is way off, but it does me no good to correct it.

I don’t think you were fudging in 2014 but your current posts smell super fudgy 💩

 

[PikminOC]

I like case reports, they are thought provoking, but realize that many people have padded their CV by publishing a bunch of crap about Covid because journals are accepting it.

A few of those articles have poorly worked up patients. As noted above, 60% of the population was vaccinated, so chances are most of the new onset psychosis cases yojr seeing are vaccinated, because 60% of the population is vaccinated, it does not suggest causation.

What about all the life stressors from Covid. Maybe people were smoking more marijuana cause they’re home all day. Maybe they were just laid off. There’s a reason case reports are not often accepted, especially with the cases above were there was little workup.

They were home all day due to the mandates. That's my point. The mandates were an overreach.

 

[PikminOC]

A disease that is uniformly mild but killed over a million people in the US including young, healthy people with no comorbidities (?). Did nothing to prevent transmission but blunted the disease enough to slow down admissions so that we could stop treating patients in makeshift ICUs in the giftshop or cafeteria (?). Okay, buddy.

It’s okay to be critical of “the gubment response” and worry about “muh freedoms,” but let’s not pretend the vaccine did nothing at all.

“I got the miracle vaccine but but but the gubment” is such a disconnected response to the actual reality and implications of mandating the vaccine. That maneuver saved many lives and de-burdened many hospital systems over time despite its potential overreach.

But anyway, thank you, Lord Supreme Leader Fauci for blessing us with your vaccine. Please take away more of my freedoms.

I'm not just posting about the injection. I don't think it did nothing. I think the full sequela from the injection is still pending. It's also about the overreach from the mandates and how they affected society.

 

[PikminOC]

A disease that is uniformly mild but killed over a million people in the US including young, healthy people with no comorbidities (?). Did nothing to prevent transmission but blunted the disease enough to slow down admissions so that we could stop treating patients in makeshift ICUs in the giftshop or cafeteria (?). Okay, buddy.

It’s okay to be critical of “the gubment response” and worry about “muh freedoms,” but let’s not pretend the vaccine did nothing at all.

“I got the miracle vaccine but but but the gubment” is such a disconnected response to the actual reality and implications of mandating the vaccine. That maneuver saved many lives and de-burdened many hospital systems over time despite its potential overreach.

But anyway, thank you, Lord Supreme Leader Fauci for blessing us with your vaccine. Please take away more of my freedoms.

Pls post the percentages of people who died from covid per age group.

 

[PikminOC]

I like case reports, they are thought provoking, but realize that many people have padded their CV by publishing a bunch of crap about Covid because journals are accepting it.

A few of those articles have poorly worked up patients. As noted above, 60% of the population was vaccinated, so chances are most of the new onset psychosis cases yojr seeing are vaccinated, because 60% of the population is vaccinated, it does not suggest causation.

What about all the life stressors from Covid. Maybe people were smoking more marijuana cause they’re home all day. Maybe they were just laid off. There’s a reason case reports are not often accepted, especially with the cases above were there was little workup.

What more workup do you recommend?

 

[PikminOC]

The people who hold these views dont take care of dying people. If they have ever seen someone die it was many years ago as a medical student. You bet your ass they were nowhere near anyone who had covid when it first started and probably for years after (if they have ever been near an active symptomatic covid). The fact that these people feel entitled to render an opinion that criticized our ****ty response as too severe just goes to show you how powerful the partisan media can be. Completely overwrites a decade of training and the importance of respect for expertise because they read some right winger blog that said that 99.99% of the population didn't die and it was a huge waste of resources to try to curb the rampant infection rate. Nobody who was in the **** thinks our response was too severe.

People die. I see people die from drug overdose and suicide. And some who did so due to the mandates and isolation.

 

[PikminOC]

I personally ran a makeshift COVID ICU in our PACU and I think mandating a vaccine that does almost nothing to prevent transmission, for a disease that is uniformly mild in those without comorbidities was nonsensical. A lot of credibility was lost over that.

If the injection helped at the beginning only then why is it still being mandated?

 

[Hoya11]

I personally ran a makeshift COVID ICU in our PACU and I think mandating a vaccine that does almost nothing to prevent transmission, for a disease that is uniformly mild in those without comorbidities was nonsensical. A lot of credibility was lost over that.

what state?

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I had my own reasons for making that post in 2014. Everyone knows that there are those online who have nothing better to do than stalk and pore over people's histories, so naturally they fudge the details they do post. The timeline you've created in your head is way off, but it does me no good to correct it.

So when did you "run" the "COVID ICU" in the PACU. Come clean.

 

[deleted875186]

What more workup do you recommend?

Tox screens, LP, MRI, herbal medicines and other supplements, neurological exam. Seems like the first two had a full workup. At least in my area most common is mosquito born viral disease.

Literally the last case report was just CT head negative, pending MRI, admitted to psych. How do you get that type of case report published? The authors literally wrote “patient was walking the psych floor hearing people whisper covid” to him”.

 

[gunnershow]

So when did you "run" the "COVID ICU" in the PACU. Come clean.

Nothing to come clean about, that's exactly what I did. It was an overflow unit and I staffed it the vast majority of the time. If you didn't have one of these in your hospital, you were never truly overwhelmed by COVID imo. You can attack my credentials if you want, but it doesn't make it less true and it doesn't affect my argument at all.

Interesting the kind of blowback you get when you dare question vaccine mandates... I had already been infected and still was required to get the vaccine and booster. I had physicians confidently telling me that there is no such thing as "natural immunity". It's like everyone shoved their heads in the sand and ignored everything they knew about viral infection and our body's immune response just so they could follow the party line.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Nothing to come clean about, that's exactly what I did. It was an overflow unit and I staffed it the vast majority of the time. If you didn't have one of these in your hospital, you were never truly overwhelmed by COVID imo. You can attack my credentials if you want, but it doesn't make it less true and it doesn't affect my argument at all.

Friend, I am not "attacking" you. I am asking you to clarify things a bit.

This has nothing to do with vaccine mandates but everything to do with your credibility.

 

[PikminOC]

Tox screens, LP, MRI, herbal medicines and other supplements, neurological exam. Seems like the first two had a full workup. At least in my area most common is mosquito born viral disease.

Literally the last case report was just CT head negative, pending MRI, admitted to psych. How do you get that type of case report published? The authors literally wrote “patient was walking the psych floor hearing people whisper covid” to him”.

The first two had the full workup. Good enough for me. It's not zero.

 

[PikminOC]

If the injection helped at the beginning only then why is it still being mandated?

?

 

[epidural man]

Interesting the kind of blowback you get when you dare question vaccine mandates...

But people were dying in the ICUs! I can’t believe you even call yourself a doctor. Shame on you!

What was really strange to me was how the people that really pushed the vaccine on other people - by yelling “government mandates”, or by shaming or name calling, or however they could - were the most likely to not believe the vaccine actually worked. They SAID they believed it worked, but acted like it did nothing. And yet, these same people might say that vaccinating an 18 y/o somehow magically prevented a 82 y/o from getting admitted to the ICU.

I’ve yet to hear a plausible, data-driven answer that explains the mechanism of that.

 

[GassYous]

What are you talking about?

Herd immunity is a thing. Vaccines definitely helped things. So did masking.

 

[epidural man]

What are you talking about?

Herd immunity is a thing. Vaccines definitely helped things. So did masking.

Absolutely it is a thing. Does natural immunity contribute to it? When did we reach heard immunity? If we reach this point, do vaccine boosters help?

These are great questions right? How great would it have been if leaders who made decisions thought so and tried to answer them.

Regarding mask, you need to give more info. Why do you think “they” helped? It has never helped for aerosolized virus in the past. Why did it help this aerosolized virus?

What type of masks helped? Did all masks help? In what situation did they help? How did they help?

Great questions right? If only the CDC funded a study to answered these questions.

 

[Hoya11]

These are great questions right?

Not really. Kind of nit picky and irrelevant ..

 

[epidural man]

What are you talking about?

Herd immunity is a thing. Vaccines definitely helped things. So did masking.

Explain to me this.

If an 82 y/o gets vaccinated and boosted, and a 20y/o doesn’t get vaccinated, how does the (20y/o) getting vaccinated prevent the 82 y/o from being admitted to the ICU? Does the vaccine work?

Also note, everyone is exposed so the 20 y/o has likely been infected in this scenario, maybe with different strains at different times. He has been perfectly fine because he is 20.