California Northstate gains Accreditation

[Goro]

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Touro's match list, like 14 other COMs, is more ACGME than AOA. In fact, the oldest COMs seem to have more AOA > ACGME grads.

As for "Less desirable institutions?", I'll let our resident colleagues (and not pre-meds who have yet to set foot in a med school lecture hall, much less done a clinical rotation) comment on that. Trying to interpret match lists is like trying to read chicken guts. My own take, from my own grads, is that if you get your #1 or #2 spot, it's a good residency.

Fairly comprehensive explanation in the link below.

https://residency.wustl.edu/Residencies/Pages/CategoricalvsPreliminary.aspx

Touro matches are typically at less desirable institutions as well making job opportunities/fellowships a bit more difficult. They are also mostly AOA which will be complicated by the upcoming AOA/ACGME "merger." Ultimately, it's hard/impossible to tell how CNUCOM will match. It will be an uphill battle, but work hard and focus on making connections and this class will do fine. The students are going to create the opportunities not the university.

 

[anonimoose]

@Monster_Cat

You wrote:

seeing as Touro's match list alone beats the pants off UC Davis medical school's match list

I responded:

Touro University California's College of Osteopathic Medicine residency "match list" for the class of 2014:
http://com.tu.edu/_resources/docs/curriculum/2013-2014_GME_accountability_report.pdf

University of California at Davis' School of Medicine match list for the class of 2014:
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/mdprogram/registrar/pdfs/2014_Match_Public.pdf

…if we're talking about what are generally agreed to be the two most prestigious medical schools/programs in California -- Stanford and UCSF -- then the count is:

Of Touro CA's graduates,
- 6 went into UCSF-affiliated residency programs
- 2 went into Stanford-affiliated residency programs

Of UC Davis's graduates:
- 5 went into UCSF-affiliated residency programs
- 5 went into Stanford-affiliated residency programs

And if we're talking about "ROAD", then the count is:

Of Touro CA's graduates,
- 3 went into Radiology
- 0 went into Ophthalmology
- 3 went into Anesthesiology
- 0 went into Dermatology

Of UC Davis's graduates:
- 3 went into Radiology
- 3 went into Ophthalmology
- 3 went into Anesthesiology
- 2 went into Dermatology

You wrote:

Look at and compare specific surgical speciality matches in the past few years, for example one I checked only had one ent and orthodox for Davis and touro had plenty more ppl in surgery.

I responded:

…if we're talking about the most competitive programs according to the National Residency Matching Program (NRMP) -- which includes ENT and Orthopedic Surgery:
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2014/04/04/the-toughest-fields-for-match-day-2014

Of Touro CA's graduates,
- 0 went into Neurological Surgery
- 2 went into Orthopedic Surgery (1 AOA, 1 military)
- 1 went into Otolaryngology (AOA)
- 0 went into Plastic Surgery
- 0 went into Radiation Oncology

Of UC Davis's graduates:
- 1 went into Neurological Surgery
- 4 went into Orthopedic Surgery
- 1 went into Otolaryngology
- 0 went into Plastic Surgery
- 2 went into Radiation Oncology

I don't know where you're getting"for example one I checked only had one ent and orthodox (sic) for Davis". Source?

You wrote:

Stanford and ucsf aren't the only top institutions and programs noteworthy either.

I responded:

I never said they were; I merely referred to them as"the two most prestigious medical schools/programs in California". Do you disagree? (I specifically referred to Stanford and UCSF because it's safe to say that a significant proportion of students at Touro CA and UC Davis [and yes, at CNUCOM] aspire to stay in the golden state. Do you disagree?)

You wrote:

You need to provide a more comprehensive and objective evaluation

I responded:

Happy to do so! I'll follow your lead.

You wrote:

I will look into things more later today and report back, until then mazel tov for the information you have provided. Touro's match list is very impressive either way though.

I am still waiting for your “more comprehensive and objective evaluation” of how “Touro's match list alone beats the pants off UC Davis medical school's match list”.

 

[BeornBear]

@Monster_Cat

You wrote:


I responded:


You wrote:


I responded:


You wrote:


I responded:


You wrote:


I responded:


You wrote:


I am still waiting for your “more comprehensive and objective evaluation” of how “Touro's match list alone beats the pants off UC Davis medical school's match list”.

You are still waiting because Monster Cat doesn't have a “more comprehensive and objective evaluation” ....

 

[genelite]

Are people sure there are more interviews? I haven't heard from anyone that has an upcoming interview and it doesn't seem to make much practical sense with the class starting so soon. possibly one more interview this friday, i would think.

Accepted students, do you know the deadline for tuition fee?

 

[Doug Underhill]

Would anyone like to compare the opening of CNU to other recent medical schools such as Quinnipiac and Oakland? Were their launches similarly rocky, or did things go much better? Do we have SDN threads for their openings, and how did posters view them?

 

[Spector1]

Would anyone like to compare the opening of CNU to other recent medical schools such as Quinnipiac and Oakland? Were their launches similarly rocky, or did things go much better? Do we have SDN threads for their openings, and how did posters view them?

netter/quinnipiac and oakland are part of existing universities so they have cash, experience in education, and resources. CNU just is like a "start up school" get a bunch of investor cash and start teaching medicine.

 

[4401]

Are people sure there are more interviews? I haven't heard from anyone that has an upcoming interview and it doesn't seem to make much practical sense with the class starting so soon. possibly one more interview this friday, i would think.

Accepted students, do you know the deadline for tuition fee?

genelite, a lot of us applying for this year's cycle have been very active here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...state-university-college-of-medicine.1148495/

 

[LLCoolK]

netter/quinnipiac and oakland are part of existing universities so they have cash, experience in education, and resources. CNU just is like a "start up school" get a bunch of investor cash and start teaching medicine.

Netter didn't seem to have any rocky patches at all. Very well-run institutions with highly educated + experienced instructors. Very few international faculty, unlike CNU.

I've actually been looking at the faculty from a few of the new schools and NONE of them have this "high quantity" of international faculty that folks have previously stated throughout this thread.

 

[melontea]

I still can't believe so many people are vouching for this school. Every single attending/med faculty/residency director I've spoken to have had nothing but bad things to say. One of the cardiologists I shadowed at a well-known CA university hospital straight up told me this was the worst medical school option that I could possibly consider. Although I was accepted to CNU from my 7/10 interview date, he told me that I should absolutely wait a year and attend any other MD/DO school. Every single ADCOM member on SDN have had nothing but bad things to say. The way this school is run is comparable to Caribbean schools... In fact, one of my interviewers specifically used examples from Caribbean schools when I asked specific questions about CNU (he was, of course, a Caribbean graduate who now practices psychiatry and has terrible ratings from patients on yelp/health care rating websites).

The only thing this school has going for it is location and LCME accreditation (which they could very well lose, as illustrated many times in this thread). Make informed decisions guys. My other 2 interviewers were a pharmacist and a pharmacist professor... why would they do that? I'm not interviewing for the pharmacy school! So many damn red flags... I seriously put so much damn effort trying to like this school because it would give me the option to start this fall, but I just couldn't do it.

Oh, and don't forget about the lawsuit that was placed against them quite recently (http://www.leagle.com/decision/In F...ALIFORNIA NORTHSTATE COLLEGE OF PHARMACY, LLC)

 

[Spector1]

I still can't believe so many people are vouching for this school. Every single attending/med faculty/residency director I've spoken to have had nothing but bad things to say. One of the cardiologists I shadowed at a well-known CA university hospital straight up told me this was the worst medical school option that I could possibly consider. Although I was accepted to CNU from my 7/10 interview date, he told me that I should absolutely wait a year and attend any other MD/DO school. Every single ADCOM member on SDN have had nothing but bad things to say. The way this school is run is comparable to Caribbean schools... In fact, one of my interviewers specifically used examples from Caribbean schools when I asked specific questions about CNU (he was, of course, a Caribbean graduate who now practices psychiatry and has terrible ratings from patients on yelp/health care rating websites).

The only thing this school has going for it is location and LCME accreditation (which they could very well lose, as illustrated many times in this thread). Make informed decisions guys. My other 2 interviewers were a pharmacist and a pharmacist professor... why would they do that? I'm not interviewing for the pharmacy school! So many damn red flags... I seriously put so much damn effort trying to like this school because it would give me the option to start this fall, but I just couldn't do it.

Oh, and don't forget about the lawsuit that was placed against them quite recently (http://www.leagle.com/decision/In FDCO 20140107756/BRAZILL v. CALIFORNIA NORTHSTATE COLLEGE OF PHARMACY, LLC)

I'm sure those on the waitlist appreciate your selflessness.

 

[itsogre]

TCMC had a pretty shaky start, especially with providing financial aid and class diversity. It's a stand-alone med school like CNU. But if you look at TCMC's match-list, their grads have done very well despite having to take their classes at a cramped community college building while the TCMC building was being constructed, or despite some poor-quality community clinical rotations.

 

[4401]

Oh, and don't forget about the lawsuit that was placed against them quite recently (http://www.leagle.com/decision/In FDCO 20140107756/BRAZILL v. CALIFORNIA NORTHSTATE COLLEGE OF PHARMACY, LLC)

You mean the lawsuit that was dismissed this past May? As @anonimoose cited: “STIPULATION and ORDER FOR DISMISSAL signed by Senior Judge William B. Shubb on 5/11/2015 ORDERING that this action is DISMISSED with prejudice pursuant to Rule 41 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and Local Rule 160, with each side to bear his/its own costs and attorneys fees. CASE CLOSED.”
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOURTS-caed-2_12-cv-01218

Look, I'm a lawyer. Everyone gets sued. Again, as @anonimoose pointed out:
http://www.gwhatchet.com/2012/02/02/ex-student-sues-medical-school-after-dismissal-from-program/
http://www.timesnews.net/article/9070686/former-med-student-sues-etsu-claims-discrimination
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20121127/NEWS03/121129896/fighting-to-get-out-of-med-school
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-is-sued-by-ex-med-student-with-learning-disability/article_6b3fa880-5d55-55ce-a016-d9e74b594a15.html

As an attorney, I'm telling you that just because someone has a lawsuit brought against them doesn't (necessarily) mean they're in the wrong. Citing this (now dismissed) case as a rhetorical trump card is a red flag (at best) or a red herring (at worst).

There are enough legitimate concerns about CNUCOM; your hyperbole doesn't really help inform prospective students.

 

[genelite]

I still can't believe so many people are vouching for this school. Every single attending/med faculty/residency director I've spoken to have had nothing but bad things to say. One of the cardiologists I shadowed at a well-known CA university hospital straight up told me this was the worst medical school option that I could possibly consider. Although I was accepted to CNU from my 7/10 interview date, he told me that I should absolutely wait a year and attend any other MD/DO school. Every single ADCOM member on SDN have had nothing but bad things to say. The way this school is run is comparable to Caribbean schools... In fact, one of my interviewers specifically used examples from Caribbean schools when I asked specific questions about CNU (he was, of course, a Caribbean graduate who now practices psychiatry and has terrible ratings from patients on yelp/health care rating websites).

The only thing this school has going for it is location and LCME accreditation (which they could very well lose, as illustrated many times in this thread). Make informed decisions guys. My other 2 interviewers were a pharmacist and a pharmacist professor... why would they do that? I'm not interviewing for the pharmacy school! So many damn red flags... I seriously put so much damn effort trying to like this school because it would give me the option to start this fall, but I just couldn't do it.

Oh, and don't forget about the lawsuit that was placed against them quite recently (http://www.leagle.com/decision/In FDCO 20140107756/BRAZILL v. CALIFORNIA NORTHSTATE COLLEGE OF PHARMACY, LLC)

with all these concerns, I am just not understanding why people with great scores and applications overall are applying here when waiting a year and getting much better options makes much more sense. This is ideal for those that don't want to head to the Caribbean or just don't have the scores to attend another established medical school. With how much incredibility LizzyM scores get, it's obvious when looking at statistics that people with 70 or higher scores will mostly get into a medical school. It's just a surprise to see qualified students filling up this class when they could see a much better outcome next cycle.

 

[anonimoose]

Honestly, I forgot about this in a rush between secondaries and interviews, and someone else explained better above. There are complexities to matches and contexts that I don't completely get, but I reported what I observed, and see validity in what you say.

I'll leave it to experts, but I could definitely report back after informing myself better all the complexities of residency matches.

Fair enough. Good luck at your CNUCOM interview.

 

[el_duderino]

with all these concerns, I am just not understanding why people with great scores and applications overall are applying here when waiting a year and getting much better options makes much more sense. This is ideal for those that don't want to head to the Caribbean or just don't have the scores to attend another established medical school. With how much incredibility LizzyM scores get, it's obvious when looking at statistics that people with 70 or higher scores will mostly get into a medical school. It's just a surprise to see qualified students filling up this class when they could see a much better outcome next cycle.

Another year = another year of physician salary lost, and another year of anxiety and work trying and hoping to get in.

 

[Goro]

This, plus, stay in CA now, rather than go OOS next year. The desire to stay close to home is not an insignificant factor in choosing a med school.

IN the CNU matriculant pool, we're seeing, for lack of a better term, risk takers. This is NOT a pejorative, just an observation. Most med schools accept 2x candidates per seat. It will be interesting if any CNU acceptees turn down their seats for other places, and to hear the their rationales.

Another year = another year of physician salary lost, and another year of anxiety and work trying and hoping to get in.

 

[el_duderino]

This, plus, stay in CA now, rather than go OOS next year. The desire to stay close to home is not an insignificant factor in choosing a med school.

IN the CNU matriculant pool, we're seeing, for lack of a better term, risk takers. This is NOT a pejorative, just an observation. Most med schools accept 2x candidates per seat. It will be interesting if any CNU acceptees turn down their seats for other places, and to hear the their rationales.

I would have jumped at a CNU acceptance if I hadn't gotten another.

 

[genelite]

Another year = another year of physician salary lost, and another year of anxiety and work trying and hoping to get in.

Another year gets you residency without the hassle of graduating from the CNU program and seeing difficulties. I too have seen many advisers and physicians who say that those who graduate from this medical school will see trouble down the road with their residencies especially. I was recommended by a premed adviser who has 20 years experience to pass up on this medical school and take a DO acceptance over it. Another year of anxiety is for those students with lower statistics than the ones I am talking about. I am saying I just do not understand why people with such high scores and great apps are accepting their invites to this school when there are so many better options. Maybe they just don't have any mentors or are misinformed about the application process. A LizzyM of 70 or higher and not being a total loser will earn you a spot at a medical school in the country. And if the concern is to stay close to home to risk future career then priorities are misplaced.

 

[el_duderino]

Who are these students with 70+ and good ECs/interview skills going to this school?

 

[Spector1]

Who are these students with 70+ and good ECs/interview skills going to this school?

lots of non trads. relatively high mcat scores and low gpas

 

[el_duderino]

lots of non trads. relatively high mcat scores and low gpas

Those are people MD schools routinely pass over, and if they've already failed the previous cycle....

 

[genelite]

Those are people MD schools routinely pass over, and if they've already failed the previous cycle....

the average stats of people being accepted by just looking through forums is comparable to UC Davis.

 

[el_duderino]

Who is to say good interview skills are a requirement, when they're interviewing with pharm students and pharmacists due to what appears to be a hap-hazard rush job? I'd say more likely its good ECs, high MCAT, decentish or above gpa, and basic interview skills (pulse + being able to interact with another human being).

They would need good interview skills to be fairly assured of an acceptance to another school.

That's the thing. I don't see CNU filling its class with people who are shoe-ins for an acceptance at a different US MD program this upcoming cycle.

 

[Goro]

From Throwaway's post in the CNU-specific thread:

For anyone interested, I averaged accepted students' MCATs and GPAs based on self reported stats on SDN. n=10
Average GPA: 3.49 Average MCAT: 32.8

LizzyM score of ~68;

By comparison,
SLU 3.9/33 = 72 (FYO: SLU has a GPA profile similar to Pitt, but is more forgiving of lower MCAT scores!)
MCW 3.8/32 = 70
Loyola 3.7/33 = 70
Oakland-B 3.8/31 = 69
Albany 3.7/32 = 69
UCD 3.7/32 = 69
Wake Forest 3.7/32 = 69
Drexel 3.7/32 = 69
Western MI 3.7/32 = 69
Rush 3.7/31 = 68
NYMC 3.6/32 = 68
Netter 3.6/31 = 67
CCOM 3.6/30 = 66
Touro-CA 3.5/30 = 65

What we see is, with a small N, self-reporting CNU acceptees pretty much at the bottom of the pack of the "low-tier" schools, and a tad ahead of the top COMs.

I conclude that the typical CNU matriculant will be someone who, in no particular order:

a) wants the MD > DO
b) wants to stay in CA
c) couldn't get into UCD
d) is a risk taker
e) all of the above [kudos to neurozot]

Who are these students with 70+ and good ECs/interview skills going to this school?

 

[Spector1]

They would need good interview skills to be fairly assured of an acceptance to another school.

That's the thing. I don't see CNU filling its class with people who are shoe-ins for an acceptance at a different US MD program this upcoming cycle.

They literally give out acceptances within 3 days of the interview. That's barely any time to consider/discuss the applicant's interview performance. I'm pretty sure they just did it as a formality and then defaulted to whoever they wanted in the first place anyways because of MCAT scores.

 

[el_duderino]

They literally give out acceptances within 3 days of the interview. That's barely any time to consider/discuss the applicant's interview performance. I'm pretty sure they just did it as a formality and then defaulted to whoever they wanted in the first place anyways because of MCAT scores.

.... How much time do you think adcoms spend examining an individual application? At most schools, applicant files get pre-interview scores and a couple of notes, then an interview score and notes, then a few minutes discussion at the next adcom meeting. They don't spend days on an individual applicant or anything. A turnaround time of 3 days doesn't indicate anything if they're working hard to go through the applications.

I think it's dismissive and insulting to say they're doing interviews as a formality and are basically accepting people based on nothing but MCAT scores.

Like I said, I would have taken an acceptance to here in lieu of a 2nd or 3rd application cycle after failing one. I had a high MCAT and low GPA and the stress of going through another cycle you're not sure will succeed is really, really rough. No offense to anyone, but I would have taken this over a DO acceptance as well.

 

[Throwaway41785]

From Throwaway's post in the CNU-specific thread:

For anyone interested, I averaged accepted students' MCATs and GPAs based on self reported stats on SDN. n=10
Average GPA: 3.49 Average MCAT: 32.8

LizzyM score of ~68;

By comparison,
SLU 3.9/33 = 71 (FYO: SLU has a GPA profile similar to Pitt, but is more forgiving of lower MCAT scores!)
MCW 3.8/32 = 70
Loyola 3.7/33 = 70
Oakland-B 3.8/31 = 69
Albany 3.7/32 = 69
UCD 3.7/32 = 69
Wake Forest 3.7/32 = 69
Drexel 3.7/32 = 69
Western MI 3.7/32 = 69
Rush 3.7/31 = 68
NYMC 3.6/32 = 68
Netter 3.6/31 = 67
CCOM 3.6/30 = 66
Touro-CA 3.5/30 = 65

What we see is, with a small N, self-reporting CNU acceptees pretty much at the bottom of the pack of the "low-tier" schools, and a tad ahead of the top COMs.

I conclude that the typical CNU matriculant will be someone who, in no particular order:

a) wants the MD > DO
b) wants to stay in CA
c) couldn't get into UCD
d) is a risk taker

I would add:

e) Many matriculants come from selective undergrad schools (especially UC Berkley and a handful of others) based on the facebook group. This may account for the below average GPA, as adcoms may have factored in school rigor.

 

[genelite]

.... How much time do you think adcoms spend examining an individual application? At most schools, applicant files get pre-interview scores and a couple of notes, then an interview score and notes, then a few minutes discussion at the next adcom meeting. They don't spend days on an individual applicant or anything. A turnaround time of 3 days doesn't indicate anything if they're working hard to go through the applications.

I think it's dismissive and insulting to say they're doing interviews as a formality and are basically accepting people based on nothing but MCAT scores. Also you would think that only desperate students would be coming here but I'm shocked to see extremely qualified applicants selling themselves short.

Like I said, I would have taken an acceptance to here in lieu of a 2nd or 3rd application cycle after failing one. I had a high MCAT and low GPA and the stress of going through another cycle you're not sure will succeed is really, really rough. No offense to anyone, but I would have taken this over a DO acceptance as well.

If you don't want to do research or certain specialties it would be really foolish to turn down an established DO acceptance to come here. I agree that they are just looking at primarily mcat to determine acceptance. You'd think that only desperate students would be coming here but it's shocking to see extremely qualified students selling themselves short

 

[Goro]

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...

I seemed to have missed this. Pharmacists were interviewing prospective med students? Really?? Or were they faculty from their school of Pharmacy.??

Can others elaborate???

You interviewed here, correct? If so, can you speak on your impressions of your interviewers and whether or not they were pharmacists, and how that bodes with you?

 

[el_duderino]

What's wrong with that? I've only done MMI interviews, but the MMIs were done mostly by adcoms, students, administrators, and maybe an MD or two.

 

[Spector1]

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...

I seemed to have missed this. Pharmacists were interviewing prospective med students? Really?? Or were they faculty from their school of Pharmacy.??

Can others elaborate???

yup.
http://medicine.cnsu.edu/faculty/fa...ulty-directory/jennifer-west-pharmd-fascp-cgp

 

[GnomeBeGone]

There were school of Pharmacy faculty, but they definitely comprised a minority of interviewers.

3/3 of my interviewers were MD's, same for others I knew going into the interview day. Two were local attendings, the third (I looked up after) is a nearby residency program director. (Crafty CNU Strategy: Let your skeptics train your students?)

Besides, I really don't get all the hate towards Pharmacists? They're perfectly qualified to conduct an interview----ever had a Clinical Pharmacist on your team? Those people are godsends. They interview to get into their programs and also have a lot of patient face-time. Besides, underclassman medical students regularly conduct ALL the MMI's at some schools and nobody cries foul. It's just there to verify that there's a functional (humble?) person behind that shiny application.

 

[itsogre]

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...

I seemed to have missed this. Pharmacists were interviewing prospective med students? Really?? Or were they faculty from their school of Pharmacy.??

Can others elaborate???

Does it really matter if interviewers were pharmacists? I've had interviews with nurses, administration, students, PhDs. why would say a PhD be more qualified than pharmacits (who have clinical duties and get clinical training) to interview prospective medical students wanting to pursue a clinical education? lol.

 

[Neurozot]

From Throwaway's post in the CNU-specific thread:

For anyone interested, I averaged accepted students' MCATs and GPAs based on self reported stats on SDN. n=10
Average GPA: 3.49 Average MCAT: 32.8

LizzyM score of ~68;

By comparison,
SLU 3.9/33 = 71 (FYO: SLU has a GPA profile similar to Pitt, but is more forgiving of lower MCAT scores!)
MCW 3.8/32 = 70
Loyola 3.7/33 = 70
Oakland-B 3.8/31 = 69
Albany 3.7/32 = 69
UCD 3.7/32 = 69
Wake Forest 3.7/32 = 69
Drexel 3.7/32 = 69
Western MI 3.7/32 = 69
Rush 3.7/31 = 68
NYMC 3.6/32 = 68
Netter 3.6/31 = 67
CCOM 3.6/30 = 66
Touro-CA 3.5/30 = 65

What we see is, with a small N, self-reporting CNU acceptees pretty much at the bottom of the pack of the "low-tier" schools, and a tad ahead of the top COMs.

I conclude that the typical CNU matriculant will be someone who, in no particular order:

a) wants the MD > DO
b) wants to stay in CA
c) couldn't get into UCD
d) is a risk taker

You interviewed here, correct? If so, can you speak on your impressions of your interviewers and whether or not they were pharmacists, and how that bodes with you?

For my interview it was 2 MDs and an MD/PHD.

@Goro

I would add e. All of the above
haha

 

[Goro]

I wouldn't call it hate. It's just, well, unusual. But three PharmD's are listed as faculty for the CMU med school. One is the director of the clinical skills lab. I'm having a little trouble wrapping my mind around having a PharmD running a lab that a clinical should be doing, unless this is purely an administrative role.

If y'all can find evidence where PharmDs are on the faculty of med schools and to be fair MDs on Pharmacy schools), that would go a ways to resolving my puzzlement.

I disagree that PharmD is qualified to interview a prospective medical school candidate. At the five medical schools I've been around, this is highly atypical. Within the past 20 years, my university opened a Pharmacy school. The Faculty here did not interview students for the Pharm school. And PharmD's do NOT teach in our clinical years, either.

EDIT: it's obvious why PhDs are qualified to interview medical school applicants. We teach them and know what's expected of our students.

There were school of Pharmacy faculty, but they definitely comprised a minority of interviewers.

3/3 of my interviewers were MD's, same for others I knew going into the interview day. Two were local attendings, the third (I looked up after) is a nearby residency program director. (Crafty CNU Strategy: Let your skeptics train your students?)

Besides, I really don't get all the hate towards Pharmacists? They're perfectly qualified to conduct an interview----ever had a Clinical Pharmacist on your team? Those people are godsends. They interview to get into their programs and also have a lot of patient face-time. Besides, underclassman medical students regularly conduct ALL the MMI's at some schools and nobody cries foul. It's just there to verify that there's a functional (humble?) person behind that shiny application.

 

[el_duderino]

I see the pharms interviewing med students as kind of like having a lawyer interview med students. It's just out of place, even though they may be just as capable of judging an individual's capacity to succeed in a rigorous discipline like medicine.

Most of my professors in med school so far have been PhDs and PharmDs, with a handful of MDs. I see nothing wrong with PharmDs, who (as noted) have extensive training as well as clinical duties, doing interviews, considering PharmDs (unlike lawyers) are often medical school professors.

 

[Spector1]

I wouldn't call it hate. It's just, well, unusual. But three PharmD's are listed as faculty for the CMU med school. One is the director of the clinical skills lab. I'm having a little trouble wrapping my mind around having a PharmD running a lab that a clinical should be doing, unless this is purely an administrative role.

If y'all can find evidence where PharmDs are on the faculty of med schools and to be fair MDs on Pharmacy schools), that would go a ways to resolving my puzzlement.

I disagree that PharmD is qualified to interview a prospective medical school candidate. At the five medical schools I've been around, this is highly atypical. Within the past 20 years, my university opened a Pharmacy school. The Faculty here did not interview students for the Pharm school.

she is not only the director of the clinical skills lab, she said on interview day that she runs both the simulation center and the standardized patients program. Its not just an administrative duty but instructional too.

 

[anonimoose]

@anonimoose- I'm not trying to be down on this place too much, and I'm really hoping to be proven otherwise on my interview day and for the sake of med students there, but would you mind giving your two cents on your interviewers, and whether or not they were pharmacists, and what you think of that?

One MD, one DO, one PharmD. Inquisitive and insightful interview sessions all around.

 

[GnomeBeGone]

Unusual, I'll certainly grant you.

I thought that she was more working as the program coordinator, except for ACLS instruction, which is pretty Pharm heavy, no? Either way, she seemed on top of it and I'm certain it's not going to be a one-faculty show for that.

 

[el_duderino]

At our school, someone with no letters after her name runs the standardized patient program and a PhD is director of the anatomical simulation center. Horror.

 

[el_duderino]

I also chose another random US MD program's sim program and found a DNP is Director of Simulation, and PhD/PA-C is the head of the entire sim program. There's one MD on the sim center staff, and her title is "Medical Director," while someone with a BAJS (not even sure what that is) is Director of Standardized Patient Education.

You guys are freaking out over nothing.

 

[sunshinefl]

I also chose another random US MD program's sim program and found a DNP is Director of Simulation, and PhD/PA-C is the head of the entire sim program. There's one MD on the sim center staff, and her title is "Medical Director," while someone with a BAJS (not even sure what that is) is Director of Standardized Patient Education.

You guys are freaking out over nothing.

OMG I did a search for "BAJS" and images of poop were returned...like literal poop. Was that a trick, lol. (Edit due to spelling error)

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Most of my professors in med school so far have been PhDs and PharmDs, with a handful of MDs. I see nothing wrong with PharmDs, who (as noted) have extensive training as well as clinical duties, doing interviews, considering PharmDs (unlike lawyers) are often medical school professors.

you've got to a be a first year

 

[el_duderino]

you've got to a be a first year

... What? No. Pharmacists, unlike most PhDs teaching medical students, have actual clinical training and work with and around patients. I see PharmDs working in the hospital all the time... I don't think I've seen a PhD on the floors yet.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

... What? No. Pharmacists, unlike most PhDs teaching medical students, have actual clinical training and work with and around patients. I see PharmDs working in the hospital all the time... I don't think I've seen a PhD on the floors yet.

Given your lack of denial I'm gonna say I was right on the money. Listen man, it's nothing personal and it's not a judgement on your person, rather your experience. Just come back in a few years and you'll be laughing too.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Hey everyone, I participated in this thread when it first began, but I've taken a break to focus on the MCAT (just finished it yesterday. Finally free!). Can anyone give me a recap of what's been going on with CN since, say, June or so?

 

[el_duderino]

Given your lack of denial I'm gonna say I was right on the money. Listen man, it's nothing personal and it's not a judgement on your person, rather your experience. Just come back in a few years and you'll be laughing too.

"No" is a denial. FYI.

I'm comparing PharmDs to PhDs. No one seems to have a problem with PhDs as teachers or interviewers, but they have a problem with PharmDs? Why?

 

[Spector1]

Hey everyone, I participated in this thread when it first began, but I've taken a break to focus on the MCAT (just finished it yesterday. Finally free!). Can anyone give me a recap of what's been going on with CN since, say, June or so?

They've basically admitted their entire inaugural class so you're a bit late if you were hoping to apply

 

[Spector1]

"No" is a denial. FYI.

I'm comparing PharmDs to PhDs. No one seems to have a problem with PhDs as teachers or interviewers, but they have a problem with PharmDs? Why?

because lots of people think that MD/PHD>PHD>MD/DO>>pharms and rns and pa

 

[NeuResurgens]

They've basically admitted their entire inaugural class so you're a bit late if you were hoping to apply

Wasn't looking to apply, I just think it's an interesting development since it's the first medical school that follows more of a profit system. Thanks for the info!