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CampWWorld: A Delos Destination - Game Thread
Started by Trilt
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Was it Aloha who brought up that the item might go to the dead? And that the dead can communicate with us? I remember shooting the idea down when someone brought up, but I can't remember who that was.
Yay villagers!
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Nope, most of the time I didn't get much besides static (not sure why...?) but my lucky number is three, so most of what I got was from the wolves anyways. @Kam325 sent me an awesome picture one night though. [emoji4]
Nah wasn't me, I didn't talk about items. I got your message the one day, but I definitely wasn't about to come out with that on the thread at that point.
People were kind of bad about submitting messages, and if there was nothing on the channel that you picked I just read it out as static or silence.
Could she see who sent the messages?
I was going to send "BBC is villager" that night to try and pretend I was seered, but I chickened out since if someone could tell I sent it it just screamed wolf.
Finn probably would have thrown me under the bus anyway 😛
Thanks for the game @Trilt. It was tons of fun after not playing since August. Even more fun that I actually made end game and won for the first time, even if the last two days were super frustrating as a neutral. Sorry for picking on the subbing out thing yesterday. I was desperate to save myself, and was grasping at straws.
SOV- why did you change your lynch yesterday?
SOV- why did you change your lynch yesterday?
I got "testing how this item works -BBC" or something along those lines, so yes I knew it was from you.
Yeah the last couple days I just gave up on picking a channel because I kept getting static
Yeah, I added my name in after I chose to put a new message out. If I hadn't said that though, you wouldn't have known it was me?
I actually probably wouldn't have. I seered you pretty early on and tried not to go after people I had seered on the thread. You might notice if you look back I went from "being suspicious" of you one day to saying I "really didn't think you were a wolf" the next.
This is one of those areas where I was overthinking. 😉
Messages were anonymous unless you included something with your name.
No worries about subbing out. It has just been brought up in basically ever game I modded and seriously, I always harass people to try and get replacements. Even for boring old vanillas. 🙂
No worries about subbing out. It has just been brought up in basically ever game I modded and seriously, I always harass people to try and get replacements. Even for boring old vanillas. 🙂
This isn't overthinking, this is playing smart. I feel like one of the easiest ways to get caught as a wolf seer is to have a history of seering that doesn't fit with your stated suspicions.
(Or, well, get tracked being sketchy. 😛)
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This was a good game. I like the lack of gimmickry tbh. Though were I a neutral player I probably would have tried to stir things up more at the end.
And the choose-a-role dynamic was really cool too, I thought, honestly.
Also the dead have already heard this but I am SO MAD that the bandwagon against me formed while I was intoxicated and playing Rock Band and I didn't get to wolf-brag.
Thanks for the game, @Trilt! Camping was fun
Thanks Trilt! I enjoyed the set up and as always, the dead chat!
So he could win, silly! All he needed to do was kill a villager last night and he'd have won.
He could have won otherwise. Get me lynched. Kill you or LIS, then throw KC under the bus.
Sure, I read them.
I think you didn't get as much variety because of the strong warning ("subject to moderation, must be fairly simple (think traditional WW roles)"). I read that as "stick to the very basics," so that's what I did. I figured I was pushing it enough when I sent back "I would like to assume the role of protector, and am additionally able to protect myself. This protection role protects against items, other abilities, and attacks/kills," never mind getting creative with it.
I liked the Delos dollars, just like I liked the buyable abilities in SOV's WWhores games. I thought there'd be more discussion about it, too. But then, I didn't contribute, so... Maybe had it been clearer that they were for participation? (Or maybe it was clear and I didn't read that part.) 🙂
I agree with Nyanko that I liked the choose-a-role mechanism. I think maybe I'd structure it a titch less random. I mean, if the wolves happen to get lucky and get two roles at the beginning ... it's a horribly unbalancing mechanism. You're trusting lady luck a lot with the balance of your game that way. But I still really liked it.
The communication stuff (the radio, etc.) almost never works out. We've had lots of anonymous message mechanisms in lotsa games, and it rarely ends up impacting the game. People just don't know what to say or can't figure out a way to use the ability usefully. No surprise it didn't amount to much here, either, because that's consistent with past experience.
Nice game, Trilt. I very much appreciate a simplistic game that has just a few interesting mechanisms rather than an overly mechanic-heavy game - those almost always end up being horribly balanced with a mod trying desperately to find a way to bend the rules to keep one side or the other in the game, which just takes away any incentive to actually play. This type of game is much better for players, IMO. And look, without needing to bend anything, it came down to a do-or-die vote all on its own.... 🙂
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Yeah.... but with that last-second lynch vote change, it was kill or lose, since he basically declared himself a wolf. I was a little surprised he went that way, too. He could have gone along with the aloha thing easily, since I was pushing so hard for it. Then he could have killed you, me, or kcoughli with a 33% chance of failure. Then it would have just come down to a last lynch, except unlike this last lynch, he wouldn't have been so obviously the wolf. So it seems to me he chose the 50% chance of failure instead of the 33% chance.
I think he probably just felt like that was a lot of "ifs" and "maybes" and that doing it this way gave him the best odds. And he would have had to not get lynched on that final day, which probably would have been you/me/SOV voting (no way I would have protected kcoughli, and he knew that, so presumably he'd kill her). But I'd be curious to hear his thinking.
I think a better route would have been let you get lynched, kill KC - because that's the one least likely to be protected - and then just hope to flip me against Jilary (possible) or Jilary against me (also possible). No?
Either way he did it, I was SHOCKED that he didn't let me get lynched. I thought I stood 0% chance of winning at that point.
*shrug* You were the one I was least confident in. It's not anything personal.
I feel like getting KC lynched after killing Jil or LIS would have been long shot so I was behind him all the way on his last minute switch. Especially given there was silly string and protection in play. And I think Jilary already thought he was more likely to be a wolf than LIS so if he killed KC I think he would have been equally screwed.
The only thing I would have done different was today, when the 50/50 overnight shot failed I thought he should have appealed to you and asked you vote against a villager because hey, he saved you yesterday and those villagers were trying lynch you. That would have taken it to a tie which would've give a shot at winning. Of course I guess the question is... if the wolf had asked you to take their side today, would you have done it?
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Haha yeah I know. I was the most sketchy (aside from SOV of course) so I get it. Just gave me the sads to read it 😛
Yay villagers! Great game trilt 🙂 I had a lot of fun.
@LetItSnow I was so mad after you made that post with BBC's quote but I'm over it already. Apology accepted 😛
@LetItSnow I was so mad after you made that post with BBC's quote but I'm over it already. Apology accepted 😛
I was just happy he believed it. In retrospect, I probably should have included something requesting for him not to quote me or give any any roles.
Yeah. 3-4 days of the week I'm sitting around with all sorts of time. The other 3-4 days of the week I barely have time to check into games, much less read every post and think about what's going on. It's just the way life works in my job with a family 'n stuff.
Is what it is. You played it well, it was my botch-up, not yours.
I was tempted to link the mafiascum roles page (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Roles) as example, but figured people would just talk back and forth with me. Which some people did, but I probably could have worded it a little less intensely. I just didn't want STLesque crazy roles. 😛
I think it's rough because a lot of things I like are not necessarily what is universally enjoyed. For example, I love the crazy complicated mechanics games. Seriously. As long as there is an appropriate amount of clues dropped, I think it's super fun to figure out the sort of variation someone has made, and I'm honestly better at game solving stuff like that than pure WW games (so of course I like it, ha). I also love communication roles and would stuff a game full of them if I could (and sometimes do), so you're breaking my heart with that. So when I make something like this it is me turning down my personal preferences a bit...
SOV asked me if I'd played WWhores when the shop opened and I was a little bummed to see that my idea was not particularly original. I looked back and really like the escalating costs he used, too; definitely a fun idea and would add another dimension. Didn't play out as much as I'd hoped this game, but glad it was enjoyed. 🙂
Oh, @Trilt haven't actually thanked you for the game yet. 😛
Thanks for hosting! It was a fun one 🙂
Thanks for hosting! It was a fun one 🙂
D
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Thanks for the game, Trilt! Enjoyed it, even if I died early on, hahaha. The dead chat was fun, too. 🙂
Ya'll are making me a bit jealous that I didn't get to be apart of the dead chat... They're always fun.
You and Jil were pretty much 100% confirmed villagers at that point in the game. I didn't see any scenario where either of you were getting lynch votes.
If Aloha gets lynched
then I have to try to kill LIS ( who I thought had a high chance of just being unkillable), or kill Jil who 99% trusted me and wasn't going to lynch me, or kcough who is the only other lynchable person besides me. If I try to kill LIS I believed I fail. I lose. If I try to kill Jil I am left with LIS who thinks I am a wolf, and Kcough who can only vote for me.. I likely lose. Or I kill Kcough and then both JIL and LIS lynch me. Forgetting silly odds, when human factors are at play, I lose in any scenario where Aloha gets lynched. I would have moved to kcough much earlier, but the discussion from kcough made it sound like that is exactly what a wolfy SOV would do so I was left with the last minute move and go for the 50/50 win. I think a 50/50 win scenario is pretty good for a wolf, especially in this game.
This is also why I didn't kill anyone the previous night. I was left with the same questionable choices. I guess I could have killed aloha, and then kcough would have been the obvious choice, and I would have been 50/50 again. But killing aloha would have been odd for kcough as a wolf, so that also was bad.
I think my analysis of who would vote for who was pretty accurate. I don't make it to end game just about ever as a wolf, so I have to be realistic about what I can get away with....
Personally I
BTW, @dyachei
1) I hope things are going better, whatever the issues....
2) I realized I was being too aggressive in our discussion, thought it gave me away as a wolf so it was a bad strategy in general.
sorry if i came across boorish, it was not my intention to insult you, and I hope my play had nothing to do with you leaving the game. I do think my play is called dumb a lot, so maybe I am just more used to it. 🙄
1) I hope things are going better, whatever the issues....
2) I realized I was being too aggressive in our discussion, thought it gave me away as a wolf so it was a bad strategy in general.
sorry if i came across boorish, it was not my intention to insult you, and I hope my play had nothing to do with you leaving the game. I do think my play is called dumb a lot, so maybe I am just more used to it. 🙄
@LetItSnow thinks I should mod another game.
I liked the players in this game, and there was little whining AFAIK (wonder what the dead chat was like), and I think participation was pretty good. It makes me a little interested to do so, but i am a bit gunshy from the last few experiences that left a bitter taste in my mouth.
I liked the players in this game, and there was little whining AFAIK (wonder what the dead chat was like), and I think participation was pretty good. It makes me a little interested to do so, but i am a bit gunshy from the last few experiences that left a bitter taste in my mouth.
You were a wolf? I honestly don't remember. It was before I really had time to pay attention to the game. I usually coast few the first few days anyway, and this time I was mega-busy at the start. Sorry.
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If you had voted for one of the other two today I might have been convinced to vote with you. LIS totally threw me under the bus yesterday when he wanted me lynched (no hard feelings at all haha but it's true). Numbers wise, I just didn't want to piss of the villagers early on, because they were more likely to lynch me than I thought wolves were to kill me as a neutral... so I played for them more so. But LIS was right that I didn't care who won, as long as I was along for the ride.
@Trilt, what would the mechanism have been for a tied lynch in this game?
RNG between the tied candidates. My ties have been boring recently. 😛
YES this is what I was hoping would happen. I was so disappointed when SOV voted for you, haha
Don't let it break your heart. For starters, you don't have to like what I like. But more importantly - I like the idea of more behind-the-scenes communication in a game, because I think it gets at the heart of WW - lies, lies, and more lies, and trying to figure who is lying. My point was that for whatever reason, it rarely seems to work.
Nothing inherently wrong with the complicated games. It's just a personal preference thing. But I think you sorta start to get at the difference when you described it as "I'm honestly better at game solving stuff like that." And when SOV said "I am also better at game solving/figuring out mechanics, than figuring out wolves."
To me - that's not WW. That's a game with complicated mechanics where the players are really battling the mod, rather than each other. It's a game run by a game-master that just happens to have two different factions (wolves/village), but where you're both also fighting against the game. WW is about an informed minority against an uninformed majority, and the tension in the game comes from that (informed vs uninformed) and from the built-in deception that pits players against each other. WW is about figuring out wolves, not mechanics. The more layers of 'mechanics' that go on top of that, the more it becomes about solving the GAME rather than solving the other PLAYERS, and the less that awesome tension exists. All this is just how I view it, not a right/wrong thing.
It's perfectly fine for you to like the complicated games where you're trying to solve the game, just like it's ok for me to prefer the purer player vs player games.
I do. And this is me being hypocritical, because SOV tends to make complicated games. But they've always been creative. It might just be because my shining WW moment was shooting wolf-DocE off his horse and wrecking his plan for winning the history game. And I think that's the game I moved everyone into the same location, thus wrecking mod-SOV's plan for a post-game global war between the remaining players. SOV's games have a nostalgia factor for me. And humor - I haven't laughed in any WW game so much as WWhores.
That's not throwing you under the bus..... it's just trying to lynch you because you aren't village and therefore aren't useful for a villager win. But I get what you mean. 🙂
Bottom line to me: If you aren't villager ............. you aren't villager and should be eliminated. There are exceptions, like a neutral with a really strong voting history who can bring something to the table ("guys, I can protect you," or "I can seer and I'll release the results," or .... anything useful other than just "I promise, I'm playing for a villager win!"). Your comment about not caring who won just supports my approach. Too many games have had neutrals/chaos players dictating the outcome. Had you voted with SOV against Jilary or me, the game would have come down to a tie and a coin-flip. Village could have avoided that by getting rid of you. 🙂
.... which just justifies my position that village should eliminate neutral. By leaving neutral in, neutral had the chance to wreck the ending for the villagers. Had village gotten rid of the neutral, that wouldn't have been a possibility.
People can't think in terms of "Ohhhh.... they're playing for our side. They said so!" They're either on your side or they are the enemy. 🙂
