NormalSaline

Isotonic Member
10+ Year Member
Jan 8, 2008
246
0
99605
Status
Resident [Any Field]
As far as what you learn/ what career avenues are opened to you?

From what i can see, both are research focused. PhD looks like it pays less(or nothing) and takes an extra year or 2.

What jobs would a person with a 2 year ID fellowship be qualified for that a person with a PGY2 ID residency may not?
 

aboveliquidice

No sacrifice - No victory
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Apr 23, 2006
2,812
26
38
San Antonio, TX
Status
Pharmacist
As far as what you learn/ what career avenues are opened to you?

From what i can see, both are research focused. PhD looks like it pays less(or nothing) and takes an extra year or 2.

What jobs would a person with a 2 year ID fellowship be qualified for that a person with a PGY2 ID residency may not?
You have two different questions running here...

PhD vs Fellowship:

PhD is a strictly research focused tract. You are not a practitioner in any way, hence the PhD. A fellowship is a practitioner that desires to be very involved with research. It is a 2 yr program tacked on the end of one's doctorate.

Fellowship vs PGY1+2:

Again, the difference is in focus. A PGY2 resident is a practitioner in a specific field. They take the specific knowledge of said discipline and put it into practice. A fellowship affords the opportunity to be involved with research driven practice.

There is a lot of blurred lines between an ID focused fellowship and completing your PGY2 in ID. It is my understanding that the focus is fundamentally different.

I am sure more experienced members can speak more about it.
 

p-rog

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jun 27, 2006
499
1
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
First, as far as I can tell, many clinical fellowships (non-industry) expect you to do at least do a PGY-1 before they'll even consider you. I recently spoke to the director of an ID fellowship and he said that they only accept applicants that will have completed a PGY-2 in ID first.

As far as what you can do with a PGY-2 vs. a fellowship. The fellowship prepares you for doing clinical research basically whereas the PGY-2 is really just for being a clinical pharmacist. Of course, in reality many pharmacists who only did PGY-2's are still doing clinical research, and many pharmacists who only did a fellowship or did a PGY-1 + a fellowship are practicing solely as clinical pharmacists.

The above poster was mostly right about the PhD being solely for research vs. the fellowship being more clinical. That said, there are several schools offering clinical PhD's (i.e. UC-denver, Univ. of Maryland). Hell, my pharmacy school (Univ. of Georgia) has a PhD in "Clinical and Experimental Therapeutics" that's based out of an academic research hospital.

It's really not as black and white as you would think.
 
Last edited:

lord999

Moderator Emeritus
15+ Year Member
Feb 20, 2002
2,456
2,569
DC
Status
Pharmacist, Academic Administration
As far as what you learn/ what career avenues are opened to you?

From what i can see, both are research focused. PhD looks like it pays less(or nothing) and takes an extra year or 2.

What jobs would a person with a 2 year ID fellowship be qualified for that a person with a PGY2 ID residency may not?
Depends on the situation. The PhD is the de facto union card of normal tenure-track/tenured faculty (the 1st class). Getting a PhD is not financially a bright idea, but it is intellectually the most demanding pathway between the two. If you intend to do some international travel or emigration, the PharmD/PhD is generally not subject to numerus clausus or other anti-immigration policies of your incoming country (especially going from the US to Switzerland, Germany, France, and Denmark). I'm not that descriptive, here's a better overview (http://www.cs.unc.edu/~azuma/hitch4.html).

Getting a fellowship is probably the minimum for industry in a non-marketing department (e.g. reps, medical education, and other expendable personnel). It may or may not send you to tenure-track/tenured faculty; that depends on the university. It does qualify you for advanced practice scenarios.

Both have the disadvantage of pigeonholing you into a specific field unlike a general residency. It is possible to do both a clinical fellowship and graduate training at the same time, but it's hard to balance the two. If you really are into research, getting a NRSA fellowship and a PhD opens virtually any door in all the fields.

Just depends on your taste between research and clinician work. I can't comment on the difference between fellowship and PGY-2 except to say that fellows are expected to be more independent than PGY-2 from my experience training PGY-2s.
 

npage148

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
May 2, 2005
2,023
738
Us
Status
Pharmacist
I can comment on the PhD in pharmaceutical sciences. It's what I did after my PharmD. It's nice becasue you get a meager stipend (~25K) and your tuition waived, but I'm also working part-time as a retail pharmacist. I started doing basic research during my last couple semester of Pharm school and really enjoyed it. It's nice becasue while there is pressure to get work done and work hard, you can be very flexible in your schedule. Sometimes it's beyond frustrating and sometimes is super rewarding. I'm about 1/2 way done with it and I'm glad I did it. In the end I'm thinking about teaching which would be the best of everything, you get to do science, teach and practice. Plus the areas you can work on are endless if you can find a faculty member to work with. I'm doing cardiovascular pharmacology with lots of bench work, but some friends are doing tons of modeling with little bench work and on ever topic you could think of.

Some people are going to point out rare cases about PharmDs doing bench research but if you notice, they are very established and started doing it when the PharmD was a rarity or started in niche topics that really developed. You really need a PhD to get into it.

If you have any other specifics feel free to ask.
 

ffpickle

Thread Killer
10+ Year Member
May 7, 2008
915
0
Status
I can comment on the PhD in pharmaceutical sciences. It's what I did after my PharmD. It's nice becasue you get a meager stipend (~25K) and your tuition waived, but I'm also working part-time as a retail pharmacist. I started doing basic research during my last couple semester of Pharm school and really enjoyed it. It's nice becasue while there is pressure to get work done and work hard, you can be very flexible in your schedule. Sometimes it's beyond frustrating and sometimes is super rewarding. I'm about 1/2 way done with it and I'm glad I did it. In the end I'm thinking about teaching which would be the best of everything, you get to do science, teach and practice. Plus the areas you can work on are endless if you can find a faculty member to work with. I'm doing cardiovascular pharmacology with lots of bench work, but some friends are doing tons of modeling with little bench work and on ever topic you could think of.

Some people are going to point out rare cases about PharmDs doing bench research but if you notice, they are very established and started doing it when the PharmD was a rarity or started in niche topics that really developed. You really need a PhD to get into it.

If you have any other specifics feel free to ask.
Is your school/program generally okay with you working on the side?
 

npage148

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
May 2, 2005
2,023
738
Us
Status
Pharmacist
Is your school/program generally okay with you working on the side?
My department is ok with me working on teh side. My advisor encouraged me to keep me to as a way to make grad school look more doable (2 incomes) and so I wouldn't "waste" my last 6 years.

Some departments are not ok w/ it. My sister is in a program which forbids it
 

nextgenpharm

UIC Class of 2011
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 21, 2007
74
0
Status
Pharmacy Student
For the most part, but if you find a great department to work in they may be a little more lenient.

My question for the PhD-postPharmD, would you be able to take your bench work to a clinical setting ever you think?

Also, if you went into industry, where would you work? R&D?