Career Path Help?

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goldtooth8

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Hello to everyone here at SDN, I'm new to the forum and joined to help myself decide on the right career path.

Currently, I'm working on getting a Bachelor's degree in Biology. The problem is that the only career I feel excited about that I can get with a Biology degree is Dentistry and all the Dental Specialties. I love the fact that the majority of dentists don't have to get trained or work in a hospital. This is because I absolutely hate hospitals! When I research and think about working as a Dentist I find it to be one of the greatest jobs on earth and can see myself really enjoying it as a lifetime career!

But when it comes down to it the cost of the education, the cost of the equipment and other things required to be a Dentist absolutely terrifies me because I'm paying my way all on my own. The $$ factor really makes me reconsider becoming a dentist. So much so, that lately I've been thinking about switching my major to something other than Biology. Computer Science or Software Engineering really peaks my interest because I love technology and find the interworkings of it so interesting. In addition to that I know there's lots of career opportunities in those technology fields.

I also live in the San Diego, CA area which has a pretty high population and a high cost of living. The San Diego area also has a decent amount of dentists operating in the area. I know that both of these aspects have a huge impact on becoming a successful dentist. Especially if you want to run your own private practice.

Therefore to help me figured this out and avoid a panic attack lol!:nailbiting:

I'd like to ask any recent dental school graduates (2012-2016) a few key questions that will be a huge help with my career path decision.
  1. How much college loan debt (Undergrad Education+Dental School) did you have altogether after finishing school?
  2. How much did it cost you all together to start your career in the Dental industry? By this, I mean equipment, rent, licensing, insurance, employees, maintenance and any other essentials you needed to get your career going.
  3. How much are you making as a dentist on average per year? (Please mention if you're working at a clinic or run a private practice.)
  4. Overall do you feel like it was worth it?
  5. Most importantly are you happy with your career decision and your life as a dentist?
  6. If I decide on the path towards becoming a Dentist I will most likely graduate Dental school in the year 2024 and if I get into a specialty program like Orthodontics, I will graduate later than that. So my question in regards to that is, what do you think of the outlook for people graduating Dental school in 7 or 8 years from now?
If there is anything else that you can add to further help me please feel free to add that to your response.

Thanks to all!:happy:
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Not a graduate, but I'll contribute my 2 cents.

1. There is no comparison to be made here; the opportunity cost for a 2012-2016 grad will be substantially less than for a 2024 grad.
2. A quick Google search for dental job openings in San Diego will tell you about $600/day.
3. It's only worth it if you think it's worth it.
4. You'll be happy if you like dentistry.
5. Outlook is fine unless you're digging yourself into a $500k+ debt hole.
 
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If you go into orthodontics (which you usually have to be in the top 5 or so in an average class size of 100 students or so), you can probably expect anywhere from 500-700k of debt just for your schooling. It's pretty hard to find jobs in orthodontics nowadays from what I can gather. Dentistry isn't a bad job, but where you live is probably one of the most saturated places in the entire country, so on average wages will be lower for dentists. Like the other poster said, be prepared to take on 400k+ in loans, and expect to make 120k starting out. We'll leave all the deciding up to you, good luck
 
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People who say dentists who make 300k are unique and one of a select few in the country and doesn't represent the dental field. Excuse my French but I call bull****.

It seems to me that most of the people complaining about their debt have no career aspirations other than either opening up a poor-efforted practice or, more likely working associate ship for decades. Why? Because they are COMFORTABLE with the idea that nothing has to change, even though they are living off 30-50k a year. No need to take a risk, just help someone accomplish their dream rather than make their own a reality. This IMO separates the elite dentists from the complaining dentists.

There are 1000s of graduates every year, yet I've seen about 20-30 dentists complain on SDN and dental town. Where are the other ones? Right. Working their ass off thanks to the opportunities provided through their dental degree. I appreciate the posts that aren't meant to "scare" you, but provide a reality. But they mean nothing to me. The debt is a lot. But the potential is real.

If anything I am more invigorated to pursue a dental career. You need to have a drive, a passion for this career. You can be the world's best dentist but still fail in this profession. I envision big things for myself. Paying 400k for either of the 2 private schools (only ones accepted to this cycle) is nothing more than a 200k loss to me in the future compared to my colleagues getting a deal elsewhere. Go BIG or go HOME.
 
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Alpha Centauri said:
People who say dentists who make 300k are unique and one of a select few in the country and doesn't represent the dental field. Excuse my French but I call bull****.

It seems to me that most of the people complaining about their debt have no career aspirations other than either opening up a poor-efforted practice or, more likely working associate ship for decades. Why? Because they are COMFORTABLE with the idea that nothing has to change, even though they are living off 30-50k a year. No need to take a risk, just help someone accomplish their dream rather than make their own a reality. This IMO separates the elite dentists from the complaining dentists. There are 1000s of graduates every year, yet I've seen about 20-30 dentists complain on SDN and dental town. Where are the other ones? Right. Working their ass off thanks to the opportunities provided through their dental degree.

If anything I am more invigorated to pursue a dental career. You need to have a drive, a passion for this career. You can be the world's best dentist but still fail in this profession. I envision big things for myself. Paying 400k for either of the 2 private schools (only ones accepted to this cycle) is nothing more than a 200k loss to me in the future compared to my colleagues getting a deal elsewhere. Go BIG or go HOME.
Click to expand...

Did you start dental school yet?
 
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Alpha Centauri said:
People who say dentists who make 300k are unique and one of a select few in the country and doesn't represent the dental field. Excuse my French but I call bull****.

It seems to me that most of the people complaining about their debt have no career aspirations other than either opening up a poor-efforted practice or, more likely working associate ship for decades. Why? Because they are COMFORTABLE with the idea that nothing has to change, even though they are living off 30-50k a year. No need to take a risk, just help someone accomplish their dream rather than make their own a reality. This IMO separates the elite dentists from the complaining dentists.

There are 1000s of graduates every year, yet I've seen about 20-30 dentists complain on SDN and dental town. Where are the other ones? Right. Working their ass off thanks to the opportunities provided through their dental degree. I appreciate the posts that aren't meant to "scare" you, but provide a reality. But they mean nothing to me. The debt is a lot. But the potential is real.

If anything I am more invigorated to pursue a dental career. You need to have a drive, a passion for this career. You can be the world's best dentist but still fail in this profession. I envision big things for myself. Paying 400k for either of the 2 private schools (only ones accepted to this cycle) is nothing more than a 200k loss to me in the future compared to my colleagues getting a deal elsewhere. Go BIG or go HOME.
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You can look online classifieds to see how much practices are grossing, and what their overhead is. Dentists taking home 300k aren't average. If that's what your expectations are, you might get let down.
 
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Panis et Circenses said:
You can look online classifieds to see how much practices are grossing, and what their overhead is. Dentists taking home 300k aren't average. If that's what your expectations are, you might get let down.
Click to expand...

It's not average, but I'm going to work for it until I get there.


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700k for an ortho degree is not worth it in this economy.
 
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Likkriue said:
700k for an ortho degree is not worth it in this economy.
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Yeah. Especially with the given climate of ortho. Occasionally, just for fun, I search for jobs for ortho on job listing searches. Pretty few and far between. The other alternative is starting a practice yourself. With that much debt.... It's hard to even think about haha. Even with 500k of debt. Can you imagine taking out more money for chairs, equipment, x ray machines, autoclave equipment, computers, etc?.. Wow.
 
Alpha Centauri said:
Again, AVERAGE income. If you are scared then don't go into the profession. Pick an easier job with less risk and practically no debt
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I totally agree with you. However I would assume a high majority of pre dental students going into dental school assumes they will be an exception and own a very successful practice. I mean, they're all very skilled and intelligent if they get into dental school, so why wouldn't the streak continue? But the competition bar has just been raised.. All I'm saying is you can't bank on a guaranteed successful practice, and the alternative to that (associateship for life) doesnt look promising.
 
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MaizeGoBlue said:
I totally agree with you. However I would assume a high majority of pre dental students going into dental school assumes they will be an exception and own a very successful practice. I mean, they're all very skilled and intelligent if they get into dental school, so why wouldn't the streak continue? But the competition bar has just been raised.. All I'm saying is you can't bank on a guaranteed successful practice, and the alternative to that (associateship for life) doesnt look promising.
Click to expand...

Absolutely man. I totally agree with you! I mean I'm in the same exact boat as you, take a look at your HPSP thread from earlier


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MaizeGoBlue said:
I totally agree with you. However I would assume a high majority of pre dental students going into dental school assumes they will be an exception and own a very successful practice. I mean, they're all very skilled and intelligent if they get into dental school, so why wouldn't the streak continue? But the competition bar has just been raised.. All I'm saying is you can't bank on a guaranteed successful practice, and the alternative to that (associateship for life) doesnt look promising.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree. I mean most hard working people tend to believe they can all reach the top. Problem is, is that in dental school you are surrounded with many other talented, and hard working individuals. At that point it's a lot easier to appear average.
 
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Panis et Circenses said:
Yeah, I agree. I mean most hard working people tend to believe they can all reach the top. Problem is, is that in dental school you are surrounded with many other talented, and hard working individuals. At that point it's a lot easier to appear average.
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So have you seriously dropped dental next year to study for the mcat?
 
Panis et Circenses said:
Yeah, I agree. I mean most hard working people tend to believe they can all reach the top. Problem is, is that in dental school you are surrounded with many other talented, and hard working individuals. At that point it's a lot easier to appear average.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If this were the only career I could see myself enjoying, I'd take the risk. However there's a number of other things I would likely enjoy, so I feel the risk may not be worth it.
 
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MaizeGoBlue said:
Exactly. If this were the only career I could see myself enjoying, I'd take the risk. However there's a number of other things I would likely enjoy, so I feel the risk may not be worth it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's good to keep an open mind, and explore lots of different fields.
 
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MaizeGoBlue said:
I totally agree with you. However I would assume a high majority of pre dental students going into dental school assumes they will be an exception and own a very successful practice. I mean, they're all very skilled and intelligent if they get into dental school, so why wouldn't the streak continue? But the competition bar has just been raised.. All I'm saying is you can't bank on a guaranteed successful practice, and the alternative to that (associateship for life) doesnt look promising.
Click to expand...
Truth is, you don't have to be that smart (ie hardworking) to get into dental school. A lot of people just squeak by... And then there are the kids who are bright, driven and very good with people who I'm sure will do well. The way I see it, the most important thing for your career is if people like being around you. You can be the most skilled and the most intelligent, but if your patients find you bland or don't like being around you then they can easily go to someone who is less skilled but more enjoyable.
 
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Rekker said:
Truth is, you don't have to be that smart (ie hardworking) to get into dental school. A lot of people just squeak by... And then there are the kids who are bright, driven and very good with people who I'm sure will do well. The way I see it, the most important thing for your career is if people like being around you. You can be the most skilled and the most intelligent, but if your patients find you bland or don't like being around you then they can easily go to someone who is less skilled but more enjoyable.
Click to expand...

That's very true, but I think my point still stands. The level of competitiveness still goes way up after starting dental school, and there's no guarantee that you will be one of the top clinicians in your class. Maybe your hand skills aren't as good as you thought, maybe patient interaction is difficult, maybe you have business issues, etc. All I'm saying is being a top dentist after graduating may just not be in the cards for some people (no matter how hard they try), and that could be very problematic for somebody taking out almost half a million in loans. If you are 100% you will succeed and can't possibly fail, then taking investing in a dental education could be the best move you've ever made. However, you have to remember that most of your class has the same idea..
 
MaizeGoBlue said:
That's very true, but I think my point still stands. The level of competitiveness still goes way up after starting dental school, and there's no guarantee that you will be one of the top clinicians in your class. Maybe your hand skills aren't as good as you thought, maybe patient interaction is difficult, maybe you have business issues, etc. All I'm saying is being a top dentist after graduating may just not be in the cards for some people (no matter how hard they try), and that could be very problematic for somebody taking out almost half a million in loans. If you are 100% you will succeed and can't possibly fail, then taking investing in a dental education could be the best move you've ever made. However, you have to remember that most of your class has the same idea..
Click to expand...
if your hand skills aren't as good as they need to be, you fail the boards. However hand skills develop the most and quicker in what I like to call the "paid residency" also known as associateship around here
 
Before talking about dental school debts, finish your colleges degree with a 3.5 first and then take DAT with 20+. Ppl may say my set point is bit high, but the trend is the average stats are getting higher and higher each year, be prepared… regarding dental school debt, if others can survive, most likely you can survive too. The budget may be tight at beginning, but the future is relatively better. In terms of salary you find online, looking for median plz, not average and not the two tails. Ppl giving answers here don't know you(I assume), so we are not able to give the answer that fit you the best, you will find where you are gonna be in that normal distribution until the sec you start the 1st class IV in preclinical lab. One more word, dentistry is not a good way of earning A LOT of money, if you concern is about money more than being doctor, banking or business may be better choices.

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angelomen4 said:
Before talking about dental school debts, finish your colleges degree with a 3.5 first and then take DAT with 20+. Ppl may say my set point is bit high, but the trend is the average stats are getting higher and higher each year, be prepared… regarding dental school debt, if others can survive, most likely you can survive too. The budget may be tight at beginning, but the future is relatively better. In terms of salary you find online, looking for median plz, not average and not the two tails. Ppl giving answers here don't know you(I assume), so we are not able to give the answer that fit you the best, you will find where you are gonna be in that normal distribution until the sec you start the 1st class IV in preclinical lab. One more word, dentistry is not a good way of earning A LOT of money, if you concern is about money more than being doctor, banking or business may be better choices.

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Click to expand...

Any advice from a Teemo player is sketchy at best.
 
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to my post. Your advice helps me immensely, I really appreciate it.
 
To be clear, dentistry can still be worth it. If you have relatives helping you pay tuition, if you have a free practice waiting for you after graduation, if you get into a cheap state school, if you get a military scholarship, etc. but it's very important to consider your finances and what dental school can do to an unsuspecting pre-dent who goes to an expensive private school.
 
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Alpha Centauri said:
People who say dentists who make 300k are unique and one of a select few in the country and doesn't represent the dental field. Excuse my French but I call bull****.

It seems to me that most of the people complaining about their debt have no career aspirations other than either opening up a poor-efforted practice or, more likely working associate ship for decades. Why? Because they are COMFORTABLE with the idea that nothing has to change, even though they are living off 30-50k a year. No need to take a risk, just help someone accomplish their dream rather than make their own a reality. This IMO separates the elite dentists from the complaining dentists.

There are 1000s of graduates every year, yet I've seen about 20-30 dentists complain on SDN and dental town. Where are the other ones? Right. Working their ass off thanks to the opportunities provided through their dental degree. I appreciate the posts that aren't meant to "scare" you, but provide a reality. But they mean nothing to me. The debt is a lot. But the potential is real.

If anything I am more invigorated to pursue a dental career. You need to have a drive, a passion for this career. You can be the world's best dentist but still fail in this profession. I envision big things for myself. Paying 400k for either of the 2 private schools (only ones accepted to this cycle) is nothing more than a 200k loss to me in the future compared to my colleagues getting a deal elsewhere. Go BIG or go HOME.
Click to expand...

great post

there is a reason why dentistry is ranked #1 career on us news and world report (they must surely factor in dental school debt into their raking in some way)
 
tyjacobs said:
great post

there is a reason why dentistry is ranked #1 career on us news and world report (they must surely factor in dental school debt into their raking in some way)
Click to expand...

They do not. Go look at the "Dental School Will Almost Surely Wreck Your Finances" thread (it's a sticky.) To be honest, I don't think they do much research besides look at a list of salaries.
 
MaizeGoBlue said:
They do not. Go look at the "Dental School Will Almost Surely Wreck Your Finances" thread (it's a sticky.) To be honest, I don't think they do much research besides look at a list of salaries.
Click to expand...

If you are referencing that thread, you fail to see the bigger picture here


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