Class of 2009 Clerkships?

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Feli

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Just curious where everyone is headed. Seems like there's a thread like this every year on SDN, so maybe we can discuss the strong aspects of various programs and clerkship experiences?

For me:
May - DeKalb Med Cntr
Jun - StJohn North Shores
Jul - DMC
Aug - West Penn
Sept - home Miami clinic
Oct - UPenn - Presby
Nov - "vacation month" (visit other northeast programs, seminar, study)
Dec - home Miami clinic

Who's going where?
 
Just curious where everyone is headed. Seems like there's a thread like this every year on SDN, so maybe we can discuss the strong aspects of various programs and clerkship experiences?

For me:
May - DeKalb Med Cntr
Jun - StJohn North Shores
Jul - DMC
Aug - West Penn
Sept - home Miami clinic
Oct - UPenn - Presby
Nov - "vacation month" (visit other northeast programs, seminar, study)
Dec - home Miami clinic

Who's going where?

Hmmmm, must be a secret! :laugh:
 
With about 500 thread views yet just crickets chirpin, I'd say so 😀

I dunno... clerkship threads for '07 and '08 classes generated decent discussion, so I thought I'd try...

Maybe there aren't a lot of 3rd years on SDN?

July: VA Denver
August: VA Tucson
Sept: Maricopa/Baptist Phoenix
October: Vacation month; visit Univ of Utah, Madigan Army Hosp, Multicare Tacoma, maybe Swedish in Seattle if I still have the energy
November: Franciscan at Federal Way
December: Legacy Portland

I'm excited! I honestly don't know much about the Maricopa and Franciscan programs, but I'm really looking forward to going and seeing what they have to offer.🙂
 
Just curious where everyone is headed. Seems like there's a thread like this every year on SDN, so maybe we can discuss the strong aspects of various programs and clerkship experiences?

For me:
May - DeKalb Med Cntr
Jun - StJohn North Shores
Jul - DMC
Aug - West Penn
Sept - home Miami clinic
Oct - UPenn - Presby
Nov - "vacation month" (visit other northeast programs, seminar, study)
Dec - home Miami clinic

Who's going where?

Great programs. I had a good buddy go to DeKalb. He's nothing like the typical "PI" guy, so you'll like him. DMC... uh... do you want to get shot? j/k ;p
West Penn great. Miami Clinic.. why do you have to do school clinic your 4th year??... 2x??? Penn-Presby, Scott Malay is now the editor of JFAS, obviously that's HUGE, (btw, could you ask them why they had to drop the "U" part? It really doesn't make any sense to drop it??) Northeast -> maybe Cambridge?

good luck.
 
Maybe there aren't a lot of 3rd years on SDN?

July: VA Denver
August: VA Tucson
Sept: Maricopa/Baptist Phoenix
October: Vacation month; visit Univ of Utah, Madigan Army Hosp, Multicare Tacoma, maybe Swedish in Seattle if I still have the energy
November: Franciscan at Federal Way
December: Legacy Portland

I'm excited! I honestly don't know much about the Maricopa and Franciscan programs, but I'm really looking forward to going and seeing what they have to offer.🙂

Good luck on the west coast!

Utah, Swedish, Legacy have some great residents there!
 
...Miami Clinic.. why do you have to do school clinic your 4th year??...
6-8 Barry fourth year students have to be in Miami each month. We do a lottery for home months as 3rd years, and then students can trade or change them based on what clerkship months they get approved for. The 4th year students are needed to help run the three Barry Univ clinics and a couple other clinics... the 4th year students mainly to teach/supervise the 3rd year clinical students at those locations.

Thanks for the advice on the programs. I think I'll survive DMC haha. My cousin, a Wayne St grad, is PGY-1 emergency med there, and there is some crazy crazy stuff you don't see very many other places. I think I'll have Jon and the other 2nd year pod residents there be my entourage... and pay them in happy hour beer + wings :laugh:. Also, as J-dub hinted, their podiatric surgical caseload - esp trauma - is nearly unmatched from everyone I talk to (maybe PSL, KPRP, UPMC, or UMDNJ are close?). You can probably find programs that are more academic than Det, but I don't think very many people would question how good your hands are when you graduate DMC's pod training...
 
6-8 Barry fourth year students have to be in Miami each month. We do a lottery for home months as 3rd years, and then students can trade or change them based on what clerkship months they get approved for. The 4th year students are needed to help run the three Barry Univ clinics and a couple other clinics... the 4th year students mainly to teach/supervise the 3rd year clinical students at those locations.

Thanks for the advice on the programs. I think I'll survive DMC haha. My cousin, a Wayne St grad, is PGY-1 emergency med there, and there is some crazy crazy stuff you don't see very many other places. I think I'll have Jon and the other 2nd year pod residents there be my entourage... and pay them in happy hour beer + wings :laugh:. Also, as J-dub hinted, their podiatric surgical caseload - esp trauma - is nearly unmatched from everyone I talk to (maybe PSL, KPRP, UPMC, or UMDNJ are close?). You can probably find programs that are more academic than Det, but I don't think very many people would question how good your hands are when you graduate DMC's pod training...

🙂 D-town definitely has a lot of trauma. Good luck!

It's hard to say what "people" will think. I guess it depends on who you ask, if they have "heard" of this place or that place, etc. Having actual ##'s released seems to be an easy way to fix this problem, at least in the Podiatric world. In the Ortho world, they rank the different trauma centers nationwide/worldwide. Maybe Podiatry should start doing that, too with Residency programs??
 
🙂 D-town definitely has a lot of trauma. Good luck!

I really don't know what the numbers are at DMC or other programs other than UPMC (and ones I visited during my externships), though I wouldn't mind if CASPR/CRIP/CPME would release them for each residency program...

It's hard to say what "people" will think. I guess it depends on who you ask, if they have "heard" of this place or that place, etc. Having actual ##'s released seems to be an easy way to fix this problem, at least in the Podiatric world. In the Ortho world, they rank the different trauma centers nationwide/worldwide. Maybe Podiatry should start doing that, too with Residency programs??

It would be nice if they would release the numbers in the CASPR/CRIP residency guide and they used to but they stopped doing it a few years ago because apparently, programs were fudging their numbers and there really isn't any way to monitor it. I agree with Stafocker though. It would be nice if they would start releasing numbers in some form.

Concerning DMC, there are a lot of misconceptions concerning our numbers. Yes, we do get "a lot of trauma" and I would say that our trauma surgery is among the best in the country. BUT, what people fail to understand is that ELECTIVE SURGERY still makes up the majority of our surgical cases. Though these percentages probably aren't totally accurate, I'd say that 80-85% of our surgery is elective while only 15-20% is trauma. So why are people always saying, "DMC gets tons of trauma"? This is because compared to most programs where trauma makes up less than 5% of total surgery, 15-20% IS A LOT.

The sad truth is that some residency programs (including a few in MI) will use this misconception to knock the program. A student told me that one residency director here in Michigan recently told him, "Yea, those DMC docs graduate experts in trauma but, unfortunately, they don't know how to do a bunion." This couldn't be further from the truth. While our trauma does rival any program in the country, so does our forefoot/rearfoot elective.

Just for fun, I took a look at our schedule from November 1st to now. Even though it is a slow month due to Thanksgiving, our residents have done a total of 68 bunions!!! And then there are the hammertoes, plantar fasciotomies, fusions, lesser met stuff, gangions, flatfoot recons, etc.

As for me, I have no problem telling people my numbers. I currently have 194 procedures, 117 of which are C. That was my first 3 months as I have been off podiatry since 10/1 (I finally return 12/1).
 
It would be nice if they would release the numbers in the CASPR/CRIP residency guide and they used to but they stopped doing it a few years ago because apparently, programs were fudging their numbers and there really isn't any way to monitor it...
The only numbers that are really available to students are in the APMA residency survey that every pod school has access to via their clerkship office or APMSA rep. That's a decent source, but problem there is that it's just filled out by residents of the program "anonymously" (strange that they are then asked to state which pod school and their grad year). Some responding residents/programs seemed to put down real exact numbers from their case logs, but many are clearly just rough estimates (ie "400 digital, 250 forefoot, 80 rearfoot"). Also, like the CASPR/CRIP guide you mention, there's really no way to say who is massaging their numbers or program outlook... nobody wants to say that their program has a lot of empty house beds and the 3rd year residents are writing SOAP notes for pallative care in clinic.
 
...I honestly don't know much about the Maricopa and Franciscan programs, but I'm really looking forward to going and seeing what they have to offer.🙂
This is how I feel too. I've read a bit about each program I'll be visiting, but past extern love/hate reviews and student rumors are all over the board on at least couple of them. I'm excited to just get out there and see how I like them and what kind of ideas/preferences are at each program, though.

We sure will be putting the miles on the car and seeing some new places next year, though. I picked up my NeverLost GPS this morning on black Friday sale... I guess that I don't have any excuses for being late/lost on clerkships haha.
 
This is how I feel too. I've read a bit about each program I'll be visiting, but past extern love/hate reviews and student rumors are all over the board on at least couple of them. I'm excited to just get out there and see how I like them and what kind of ideas/preferences are at each program, though.

We sure will be putting the miles on the car and seeing some new places next year, though. I picked up my NeverLost GPS this morning on black Friday sale... I guess that I don't have any excuses for being late/lost on clerkships haha.

That's an awesome idea. I never thought of doing that.
 
This is how I feel too. I've read a bit about each program I'll be visiting, but past extern love/hate reviews and student rumors are all over the board on at least couple of them. I'm excited to just get out there and see how I like them and what kind of ideas/preferences are at each program, though.

We sure will be putting the miles on the car and seeing some new places next year, though. I picked up my NeverLost GPS this morning on black Friday sale... I guess that I don't have any excuses for being late/lost on clerkships haha.

GPS is too rich for my blood. I'm just going to rely on Google maps or mapquest. I'm going to be putting thousands of miles on my car driving from one end of the US (miami) to the opposite end (Tacoma). It's too bad we don't have a travel allowence in our 4th year. It's going to be tight.
 
This may be a stupid question but while you are on your externships, does the hospital pay you anything? Either actual pay, meals during your month stay, etc? I read that they can offer low cost housing for the month you're there but that was about it. I know at least for undergrad (a university near me) w/ co-op programs, you pay your tuition to the school but while you're out working, the employer pays you a salary as well. I was just curious if there is anything in return or are you basically still paying tuition while not at your institution and then having to pay for everything while on externships? Kinda sucks having to pay rent twice, especially for an apartment in your home city where you won't be living for multiple months.
 
This may be a stupid question but while you are on your externships, does the hospital pay you anything? Either actual pay, meals during your month stay, etc? I read that they can offer low cost housing for the month you're there but that was about it. I know at least for undergrad (a university near me) w/ co-op programs, you pay your tuition to the school but while you're out working, the employer pays you a salary as well. I was just curious if there is anything in return or are you basically still paying tuition while not at your institution and then having to pay for everything while on externships? Kinda sucks having to pay rent twice, especially for an apartment in your home city where you won't be living for multiple months.
Sorry, but you get to pay your way. I wish programs would pay us, but bottom line is that they are paying us by teaching us.
Some programs do offer free/reduced housing, but I don't think there are very many that do. None of the programs that I applied to offer this.
In order to avoid paying double rent I am letting my current apartment go and I'll have to find another one when I come back for 4 months in the spring.
It costs a lot of money to go on externships, but we are lucky in podiatry to have this opportunity. It's like a month long interview where we get to see the program and the program gets to see us. If you stay close to your school or home and don't travel much, that's one way to decrease your externship costs.
 
Sorry, but you get to pay your way. I wish programs would pay us, but bottom line is that they are paying us by teaching us.
Some programs do offer free/reduced housing, but I don't think there are very many that do. None of the programs that I applied to offer this.
In order to avoid paying double rent I am letting my current apartment go and I'll have to find another one when I come back for 4 months in the spring.
It costs a lot of money to go on externships, but we are lucky in podiatry to have this opportunity. It's like a month long interview where we get to see the program and the program gets to see us. If you stay close to your school or home and don't travel much, that's one way to decrease your externship costs.

Except not really. It's not allowed to be used as an interview. It happens (probably at every program to every extern), but technically it's not supposed too. Just for the edification of the pre-pods.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
Except not really. It's not allowed to be used as an interview. It happens (probably at every program to every extern), but technically it's not supposed too. Just for the edification of the pre-pods.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I believe you are right. The externships are essentially a month long interview. You learn a lot more about a program and the program learns a lot more about applicants in a month than they can in a 15 minute interview.
I believe that programs that are participating in CRIPS are not allowed to conduct a formal interview before CRIPS. Programs that are not participating in CRIPS can only conduct interviews after CRIPS.

See http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/students.asp
 
This may be a stupid question but while you are on your externships, does the hospital pay you anything? Either actual pay, meals during your month stay, etc? I read that they can offer low cost housing for the month you're there but that was about it...

...Kinda sucks having to pay rent twice, especially for an apartment in your home city where you won't be living for multiple months.
Some programs do provide housing and/or meals, etc. On others you're on your own and it can get pretty spendy. There's a listing of all the clerkship programs and what they'll offer in terms of housing, food, etc...

http://www.casprcrip.org/html/clerkships/pdf/2008Handbook.pdf

4th year is very expensive. Some people even fly out to their clerkships and then rent a car for the month, so you can see how expensive it can get. You really want to plan it out as best you can, but you will spend a ton nonetheless. I picked my clerkships somewhat on whether or not they help with housing/food... 3 of my 5 do help me out, and you'll notice I'm driving basically in a U-shape to minimize milage. I'm fortunate in that my stuff in Miami will just stay at my fiancee's house (well... wife by then).

A lot of students do just pay double rent and just find a 1 month rental or extended stay hotel/motel at each clerkship month location. Some stay with friends/family in the city of their clerkship if they know people there. Sometimes the clerkships won't give housing can still find you a place to stay by renting a cheap bedroom from one of their single residents or office staff or something. What a lot of 4th year students will do is get many other students as roommates during 4th year (since all the 4th years will be gone anyways), so at least the condo or apartment back in the pod school city is pretty cheap. Other students do 5-6 clerkships all in a row and put their stuff in rental storage space during that time.

...It's not allowed to be used as an interview. ...
Keep telling yourself that^ :laugh:

Be sure to just relax and have fun at "radiology conferences" during your clerkships 😉
 
Feli is right and pretty complete in his post. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

1) Externships as an interview:

While an externships is not allowed to be used as the official interview if you have an awful month and don't get along with the residents and act completely uninterested then even if you shine in 15 minutes at CRIPs the externship has ruined it for you.

2) when programs are allowed to interview:

Programs are allowed to interview during CRIPs or after. Not before.

3) 4th year expenses:

Many Iowa students that are not married do not keep their Iowa apartment and just live in the city of externships as travellers for a year. NYCPM students keep their apartments and some sublet for a few months if possible. I think overall most students pay rent in their school town and end up paying some rent in the externship towns as well.

As feli said 4th year is expensive. It is worth the money to go to the externships that you want to go to to get the education that you will miss thru school (all schools miss equally). Some programs do not say but you may get lots of free food thru doctors lounges and dinners. Some programs offer low cost housing or housing with residents or free housing. If it does not specifically say on the CASPR form then email and ask.

I was one of those people that flew across the country x2, payed rent in 2 cities and rented a car for 3 months. It was tight and I had to eat cheap but it was worth it. I would not have ended up where I am if I had not gone to the programs that I went to.

While you may be able to plan your externships based on cost and end up just where you want to be in the end, is it really worth it to take the chance, then say "man, I wish I wasn't so concerned about the cost"?
 
Hmm...this is where I will be so far...

July- UMDNJ
August - To be Determined...
October - INOVA
December - Highlands/St. Luke's
January - Cambridge
 
Hmm...this is where I will be so far...

July- UMDNJ
August - To be Determined...
October - INOVA
December - Highlands/St. Luke's
January - Cambridge

that seems like a great couple of months. See you in october.

are you going to try for west penn?
 
Hmm...this is where I will be so far...

July- UMDNJ
August - To be Determined...
October - INOVA
December - Highlands/St. Luke's
January - Cambridge

Great programs all of them.

Say hi to the first years, at least one first year in each is from SCPM.. except cambridge, i think she's a 2nd year now.

You plan on visiting any others? I do recommend it.
 
I would love to, but the remaining months, I am doing Emergency Medicine, Internal Medicine etc. rotations in NY. I am going to try to go visit as many programs as possible
 
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