MD & DO Co’22 ERAS Panic Thread

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Osteosaur said:
I guess I was differentiating "letter of intent" (You are my #1) from a "letter of interest" (I really like you and will highly rank you).

Does the latter have any value or is it done?
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I know someone who sent those and matched to one of the programs she sent a “I really like you” letter.
 
DrStephenStrange said:
I feel very bad for any DOs this year who either did not take any USMLE exam or did not apply broadly enough (<50 programs). My friends who did this are getting screwed right now (except for people applying FM). One of my friends who is applying IM even managed to secure an audition rotation at a university program in December, and they were told straight up by the APD that they are not getting an interview because they did not have USMLE scores. Now they are stuck with interviews in very undesirable locations even though their COMLEX scores weren't that bad, and they are very depressed about it.
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It sucks but i think it’s better if all DO schools require their students to take the USMLEs under such circumstances.
 
Lawpy said:
It sucks but i think it’s better if all DO schools require their students to take the USMLEs under such circumstances.
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Any DO student that had a chance of passing USMLE and doesn’t take it is doing themselves a massive disservice. I told this to one of my DO classmates but they said they trusted the school had our best interests in mind when the school says that all you need is a solid COMLEX.
 
Lawpy said:
It sucks but i think it’s better if all DO schools require their students to take the USMLEs under such circumstances.
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I'd say definitely take it unless you risk failing it or know for sure you want FM. Even a low passing score helps from what I have seen. But I cannot say force all DO students to take it because those exams are expensive, and there is no point in wasting that money if you are going to fail.
 
DrStephenStrange said:
I'd say definitely take it unless you risk failing it or know for sure you want FM. Even a low passing score helps from what I have seen. But I cannot say force all DO students to take it because those exams are expensive, and there is no point in wasting that money if you are going to fail.
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It’s mandatory for US MDs and IMGs and the risk of failure is still there (probably highest for IMGs). No reason to give a specific exemption for DOs, costs or otherwise. USMLEs are already effectively a requirement across many specialties. The schools are doing their students a major disservice not requiring the USMLEs
 
Lawpy said:
It’s mandatory for US MDs and IMGs and the risk of failure is still there (probably highest for IMGs). No reason to give a specific exemption for DOs, costs or otherwise. USMLEs are already effectively a requirement across many specialties. The schools are doing their students a major disservice not requiring the USMLEs
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Uh yes there is. The reason is they have their own licensing examinations that satisfy the requirements for graduation and licensure and cost money.
 
Lawpy said:
It’s mandatory for US MDs and IMGs and the risk of failure is still there (probably highest for IMGs). No reason to give a specific exemption for DOs, costs or otherwise. USMLEs are already effectively a requirement across many specialties. The schools are doing their students a major disservice not requiring the USMLEs
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If anything, the NBOME should just get rid of COMLEX and just have an OMM portion to the USMLE for DOs. But I guess that's too much to ask.
 
DrStephenStrange said:
If anything, the NBOME should just get rid of COMLEX and just have an OMM portion to the USMLE for DOs. But I guess that's too much to ask.
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Or just not even the OMM part. Because you know, mostly pseudoscience.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Or just not even the OMM part. Because you know, mostly pseudoscience.
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They'll never agree to get rid of OMM because then what's even a DO? Lol. Also, we all know they would hate to lose all that money, so an OMM portion would at least keep the cash flowing.
 
DrStephenStrange said:
They'll never agree to get rid of OMM because then what's even a DO? Lol. Also, we all know they would hate to lose all that money, so an OMM portion would at least keep the cash flowing.
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Oh I don’t mean they shouldn’t just stop teaching omm. Just that it being on a national licensing exam is stupid.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Uh yes there is. The reason is they have their own licensing examinations that satisfy the requirements for graduation and licensure and cost money.
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Make the COMLEX free instead of using that to rip off DO students who have no choice but to take it.

DrStephenStrange said:
If anything, the NBOME should just get rid of COMLEX and just have an OMM portion to the USMLE for DOs. But I guess that's too much to ask.
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I fully support getting rid of the COMLEX but that’d effectively lead to the collapse of NBOME. Which.. is probably going to happen anyways.

But all that aside, I’m against the massive disservice and frankly disinformation the schools are promoting and actively harming the matching success of their students just to follow some outdated philosophy and tradition. There are already a lot of hurdles DO students have to overcome which MD students avoid fairly easily. There’s no reason to willingly self handicap further by avoiding the USMLEs. I think the problem will be worse as overapplication fever worsens across future ERAS cycles that requiring USMLEs for students should be done everywhere without question
 
Steve_Zissou said:
Any DO student that had a chance of passing USMLE and doesn’t take it is doing themselves a massive disservice. I told this to one of my DO classmates but they said they trusted the school had our best interests in mind when the school says that all you need is a solid COMLEX.
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NBOME would create seperate tests for the OMM stuff and charge the same price by making it more intense/harder. However, it might be a better way to go.
 
Steve_Zissou said:
Any DO student that had a chance of passing USMLE and doesn’t take it is doing themselves a massive disservice. I told this to one of my DO classmates but they said they trusted the school had our best interests in mind when the school says that all you need is a solid COMLEX.
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Rule #1 of being a DO student. Never ever ever ever EVER trust your school. I completely disregarded everything my school said and Im extremely happy with my interviews this cycle. SDN has helped me a lot as well with guidance for my goals over these past several years and also helped keep me on my toes
 
fldoctorgirl said:
tbh I would just read an emailing saying "I will rank you highly" as "I'm not ranking you #1".
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i've heard multiple PDs say they know that this is exactly what it means. I don't know that it would hurt you, but it seems less likely to help imo
 
TelemarketingEnigma said:
i've heard multiple PDs say they know that this is exactly what it means. I don't know that it would hurt you, but it seems less likely to help imo
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Not to be a broken record but a friend matched at a place she sent a not number one but I like you a lot letter. They apparently ranked her very highly. So prob program dependent.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Not to be a broken record but a friend matched at a place she sent a not number one but I like you a lot letter. They apparently ranked her very highly. So prob program dependent.
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might've been ranked highly without the letter too though. people also match at places they never sent letters to. just conveying info I've heard directly from PDs.
 
Chelsea FC said:
I lowkey dont want anymore II. These are a drag!
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LOL I'd take them in my #1 specialty. I got a prelim interview today that's completely out of region for any advanced interview that I have, so I turned it down because I know I'd rank them low and I don't want to waste their time. Kinda feel like prelims might be most of what's left at this point.
 
Deecee2DO said:
just took step 2 lmao man what a ****show. ive never guessed so much in my life. test felt so much harder than step 1. feeling like i failed 🙁
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You’re not alone. I felt so much better about step 1 than step 2
 
stickgirl390 said:
You’re not alone. I felt so much better about step 1 than step 2
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Im in awe lol such a tough exam. Theyve def made that thing harder than it used to be. Step 2 used to be the exam you studied for for like 2 weeks. I studied for 5 months lol still feel like i knew nothing 7000 questions later
 
Deecee2DO said:
Im in awe lol such a tough exam. Theyve def made that thing harder than it used to be. Step 2 used to be the exam you studied for for like 2 weeks. I studied for 5 months lol still feel like i knew nothing 7000 questions later
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Damn. I heard it was going to be harder once S1 goes P/F. Currently, there is an average jump of 10+ points from S1 to S2. At my school the average jump is 15 points. You probably did better than you think. You need that good S2 score for Vandy. GL.
 
Deecee2DO said:
Im in awe lol such a tough exam. Theyve def made that thing harder than it used to be. Step 2 used to be the exam you studied for for like 2 weeks. I studied for 5 months lol still feel like i knew nothing 7000 questions later
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Trust your prep and your step 1 score. I'd just about be willing to bet on my entire student loan balance that no matter how you felt, you scored 250+. I'm sure you murdered it.
 
Does anyone have a thought on when the best time to send the LOI/#1 letter is? The vibe I'm getting is by the end of January.

I've also heard a good time to send would have been shortly after the program conducts its final interviews for the season. However, for the 2 programs that I am considering for my #1, their final interviews were in December (ie well before I will have finished all of my interviews).
 
TakotsuboOkazaki said:
Does anyone have a thought on when the best time to send the LOI/#1 letter is? The vibe I'm getting is by the end of January.

I've also heard a good time to send would have been shortly after the program conducts its final interviews for the season. However, for the 2 programs that I am considering for my #1, their final interviews were in December (ie well before I will have finished all of my interviews).
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Programs adjust their list until final rank is due. Some people have to update step 2 scores etc so as long as its in before mid Feb its fine
 
What do we title our "youre my number 1 email?" I keep just staring at the subject bar unsure of what to write
 
AlteredScale said:
You don't have to list them off specifically if you want but maybe give a description of pros and cons some can help 🙂
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Alright, here goes. This has actually become a battle for my top 3 ranks. I thought I was 100% solid on my #1 but now I'm not so sure. Also, please let me know if there is anything else important I should find out, I have resident contact info for all of these programs.

All 3 programs are located in the general geographic area I'd like to be in, so when I talk about location it's really just being nitpicky to an exact area. Schedule is 4+1 at all of these programs. Honestly, I think I'd be thrilled to be at any of these at the end of the day, so I'm just getting really nitpicky with them in an attempt to put together the best rank list.

PROGRAM 1: most established program, has been around for decades
-location: as mentioned, in the general region I'd like to be in. more in the "downtown", so potential for more traffic because I don't want to/couldn't afford to live downtown, although I don't think traffic would be bad at the times I'd be driving anyways lol. for clinic you can pick from a variety of sites, so I would try to pick the one closest to wherever I'd be living
-salary: highest at this program (by about a 4k difference from the lowest one out of these 3)
-food: yearly stipend that is on the low side but is potentially going up next year. not a huge factor for me as I bring a lot of my own food in typically
-schedule: 4+1. on call q3 until 8pm, but other teams take admits from 8am-1pm. best part about this program seems to be the schedule. according to the residents, when you are pre- or post-call you can leave around 3pm. also, on weekends if not on call you can leave by like 1pm. always get 1 day off out of 7, always either Friday/Saturday/Sunday. also, they do MICU in 1-2 week blocks, so you never have to do ICU for a month straight
-vacation: 3 weeks as an intern, then 4
-overall: this program surprised me and I'm considering ranking it #1 because of the schedule and how established it is, but I am nervous about showing up and things being different than how they were portrayed on zoom


PROGRAM 2: newer program
-location: multiple hospital sites, but probably around the same distance from me as program 1. however, with this program I would be able to afford to move closer, although it wouldn't be my choice of place to live so I would consider staying put and just dealing with the commute
-salary: lowest here
-food: $15/day
-schedule: 4+1. call schedule can be q3 or q2 depending on hospital. admit until 5pm, sign out at 6pm. best part about this program is clinic week. you are given blocks for personal time and between that and academic stuff, only have clinic for 3 days/week. this sounds really nice and chill but I am also interested in outpatient, so may be a downside? always get 1 day off in 7, usually Friday/Satuday/Sunday.
-vacation: 4 weeks, plus extra time at NY/XMAS although this isn't guaranteed
-overall: this program seems pretty nice, PD was awesome. biggest downsides are location and salary



PROGRAM 3: also newer
-location: best location to where I want to live. clinic is a little far, though
-salary: middle range here between the other 2
-food: always free, no limit
-schedule: 4+1. long call/short call system, so take admits in a trickle style (I'm not sure how I feel about this?). long call is 12 hours, short call 9 hours. will have long call about 50% of the week. couldn't really give me a straight answer about whether they get 1 day out of 7 off, they said they "prefer" it to be that way and try to tell electives to schedule their rotation that way. also seems like day off would be Friday/Saturday/Sunday.
-vacation: 4 weeks
-overall: I thought this program would be a no brainer for my #1. It's exactly where I want to live/work location wise. However, when talking with residents it seemed like the program was lacking structure? it didn't seem like there were concrete things in place that kept things standard amongst the various rotations, seemed like everything was just attending dependent. I don't know if I got the wrong vibe or whatever
 
Captain_Falcon said:
Has that ever worked for you? I can't tell if it's my delivery or what, but my wife keeps rejecting all of my attempts
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I just ignore my wife until she’s so desperate for attention that any morsel i give her is like manna from the heavens.

in case it’s not obvious, I’m joking
 
fldoctorgirl said:
Alright, here goes. This has actually become a battle for my top 3 ranks. I thought I was 100% solid on my #1 but now I'm not so sure. Also, please let me know if there is anything else important I should find out, I have resident contact info for all of these programs.

All 3 programs are located in the general geographic area I'd like to be in, so when I talk about location it's really just being nitpicky to an exact area. Schedule is 4+1 at all of these programs. Honestly, I think I'd be thrilled to be at any of these at the end of the day, so I'm just getting really nitpicky with them in an attempt to put together the best rank list.

PROGRAM 1: most established program, has been around for decades
-location: as mentioned, in the general region I'd like to be in. more in the "downtown", so potential for more traffic because I don't want to/couldn't afford to live downtown, although I don't think traffic would be bad at the times I'd be driving anyways lol. for clinic you can pick from a variety of sites, so I would try to pick the one closest to wherever I'd be living
-salary: highest at this program (by about a 4k difference from the lowest one out of these 3)
-food: yearly stipend that is on the low side but is potentially going up next year. not a huge factor for me as I bring a lot of my own food in typically
-schedule: 4+1. on call q3 until 8pm, but other teams take admits from 8am-1pm. best part about this program seems to be the schedule. according to the residents, when you are pre- or post-call you can leave around 3pm. also, on weekends if not on call you can leave by like 1pm. always get 1 day off out of 7, always either Friday/Saturday/Sunday. also, they do MICU in 1-2 week blocks, so you never have to do ICU for a month straight
-vacation: 3 weeks as an intern, then 4
-overall: this program surprised me and I'm considering ranking it #1 because of the schedule and how established it is, but I am nervous about showing up and things being different than how they were portrayed on zoom


PROGRAM 2: newer program
-location: multiple hospital sites, but probably around the same distance from me as program 1. however, with this program I would be able to afford to move closer, although it wouldn't be my choice of place to live so I would consider staying put and just dealing with the commute
-salary: lowest here
-food: $15/day
-schedule: 4+1. call schedule can be q3 or q2 depending on hospital. admit until 5pm, sign out at 6pm. best part about this program is clinic week. you are given blocks for personal time and between that and academic stuff, only have clinic for 3 days/week. this sounds really nice and chill but I am also interested in outpatient, so may be a downside? always get 1 day off in 7, usually Friday/Satuday/Sunday.
-vacation: 4 weeks, plus extra time at NY/XMAS although this isn't guaranteed
-overall: this program seems pretty nice, PD was awesome. biggest downsides are location and salary



PROGRAM 3: also newer
-location: best location to where I want to live. clinic is a little far, though
-salary: middle range here between the other 2
-food: always free, no limit
-schedule: 4+1. long call/short call system, so take admits in a trickle style (I'm not sure how I feel about this?). long call is 12 hours, short call 9 hours. will have long call about 50% of the week. couldn't really give me a straight answer about whether they get 1 day out of 7 off, they said they "prefer" it to be that way and try to tell electives to schedule their rotation that way. also seems like day off would be Friday/Saturday/Sunday.
-vacation: 4 weeks
-overall: I thought this program would be a no brainer for my #1. It's exactly where I want to live/work location wise. However, when talking with residents it seemed like the program was lacking structure? it didn't seem like there were concrete things in place that kept things standard amongst the various rotations, seemed like everything was just attending dependent. I don't know if I got the wrong vibe or whatever
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It seems that they are all pretty similar regarding the things you think are important. I see you pointed out that one is more established than the others so that can be nice because they have had time to figure out what works and doesn’t. Not to say that newer programs can’t be strong as well. As far as the 1 day off every 7, perhaps program #3 phrased it that way because there are times where that doesn’t happen because of call schedule and clinic schedules so then they double up the following week. I know you mentioned some interest in outpatient but if you think there is a possibility that you may pursue a fellowship, consider how the programs have done with placement, as well as resources and opportunities (e.g. research) available. It’s possible that any one of the programs may be different after you land there but hopefully not. Some people will up sell their programs and others may down sell it, either because they don’t enjoy it or may just be having a rough day. Unfortunately getting a true vibe is more challenging, for both applicants and programs, via zoom. Also, wherever you go, your experience is going to be attending dependent to some degree. I’d be more interested in how a program reacts to an attending who isn’t doing well with a resident team. And beyond just that, how does the program respond to resident feedback.
 
Done, done, done!!!

Time to take the spare ring light back to Target (I'm on an away) and trash this awful $5 Goodwill suit jacket that I've worn for every interview that looks like a hot piece of threadbare garbage in person but looks perfect on zoom.

What are you all doing after your last interview to celebrate?
 
diesel2202 said:
It seems that they are all pretty similar regarding the things you think are important. I see you pointed out that one is more established than the others so that can be nice because they have had time to figure out what works and doesn’t. Not to say that newer programs can’t be strong as well. As far as the 1 day off every 7, perhaps program #3 phrased it that way because there are times where that doesn’t happen because of call schedule and clinic schedules so then they double up the following week. I know you mentioned some interest in outpatient but if you think there is a possibility that you may pursue a fellowship, consider how the programs have done with placement, as well as resources and opportunities (e.g. research) available. It’s possible that any one of the programs may be different after you land there but hopefully not. Some people will up sell their programs and others may down sell it, either because they don’t enjoy it or may just be having a rough day. Unfortunately getting a true vibe is more challenging, for both applicants and programs, via zoom. Also, wherever you go, your experience is going to be attending dependent to some degree. I’d be more interested in how a program reacts to an attending who isn’t doing well with a resident team. And beyond just that, how does the program respond to resident feedback.
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I think that's the challenge...they are all fairly similar, and it's really hard to get a feel on Zoom. I'm trying to weigh the options but I am having a hard time working through the differences and also deciding how much weight to put on things like the vibe via Zoom because I feel like that might just be dependent on who happened to be the resident that joined that day.
 
Coltuna said:
"[Your name] Letter of Intent"
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This really reminds me of the "super like" function that they had on tinder a while back. I'm not sure if they still have it as I haven't been on tinder in over 5 years, but I remember getting a free super like a day or week or some random time-frame. Begging for attention once, maybe getting a little attention back, but often never leading to anything. It was very hit or miss back then, and I imagine that will be the case now.
 
I don't understand why programs restrict how you can use your vacation. Like no you can only take 1 week at a time..why?? What if I want to go on a 2 week trip? Meh.
 
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