Combined DVM/PhD Degree Program

[YoSoyRawr]

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Hey everyone. So basically I'm interested in applying for DVM/PhD Program, but I wanted to see what other people's experiences with the program were (seeing that most of the DVM/PhD Forums are pretty old). I'll be applying for Vet School in the 2015 cycle (so around this time next year), and I'm really trying to decide which DVM/PhD program is for me or if I even want to do the program. Anyways, any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Bismarck]

We have a few DVM/PhD students on the forums (Foxhunter comes to mind) so perhaps they will chime in. In simple terms, you have to be very committed to a career as a researcher and make the case for why a veterinary degree will enhance/complement your work. Having a solid record of research in undergrad helps (especially having abstracts and/or peer-reviewed papers with your name on them); in addition you will need to have a strong academic record (GPA/GRE) to get noticed as funding (i.e. positions) is very limited. I applied to several DVM/PhD programs and got interviews, but was ultimately not made an offer anywhere. Rather than reapply this past year (many programs consider applications from 1st year students too), I made the decision to pursue advanced training after my DVM. There are a number of opportunities for this (read: fellowships) if you poke around.

I'll let others expand on the specifics.

 

[HowIMetYourPet]

I'm glad I saw this...

I have a question to add....

If applying to schools with the dual program, can you apply to BOTH, just the DVM AND the dual degree? i.e. what if you would get in for the DVM program but not the dual, but you have interest in the dual, would they discount you for the DVM program automatically if you didn't fit for the dual program?

 

[Bismarck]

The way it generally works is that the DVM admissions committee verifies that the applicant meets the standards to be considered for the DVM program (and the PhD department/side verifies the same) and the applicant is passed on to the dual degree committee for evaluation if everything is good. From there, the initial group of applications is pruned to a short list for interviews (maybe 4 to 8 people) with decisions going to 1 or 2 people depending on the program. If you miss the cut in the first round, you are still considered for the DVM program automatically (if you weren't, who would apply?); some schools may consider you for their PhD program if your DVM credentials are weak but I haven't heard of anyone going that route.

As for missing the Dual program AND the DVM program, I could only see that happening if you applied to the dual degree program with no research experience and made your VMCAS personal statement all about wanting to be a research vet (i.e. you had no credibility and letters of reference to back you up). Generally speaking, if you are a competitive applicant for the dual-degree program you should have no problem getting at least the DVM acceptance as there is strong emphasis on credible academic performance in the sciences there as well. I should mention that some programs accept you to the DVM program before deciding the PhD part (i.e. Cornell and NC State) though I think others may decide both at once very early in the admissions process and evaluate the rest of the DVM pool later.

Finally, the best resource for information is from the program's website or emailing the program director directly (most of them are pretty chatty).

 

[YoSoyRawr]

The research hours isn't really an issue. I have about 250 hours from a research project my freshman year, I'm working in a lab right now (approximately 20 hours a week), and I'm working with a mentor to design my own project now and to get a paper published with my name on it, but I'm not really sure if that is good enough. The first research was in biotechnology and the previous two I'm working on now are in Poultry Science. There aren't many stats around for DVM/PhD successful applicants (or I haven't found any).

I guess I was also just kind of looking to see how students who are in the program or have completed the program feel about it. Just general information about how they feel about taking years off in between years in vet school, and how hard it is to do two very different programs at once.

I'm also interested in doing research in the area of food animal medicine, because if I don't get into the program that is what I plan on doing. I'm not sure how that works at other schools, for example NC State has a focus area for those in the program that they "strongly suggest you take" which is a problem (sort of?) because I want to do the food animal focus. So I'm curious how that works at other schools.

Hahah sorry if all of that was a little overwhelming, I just have a lot of questions.

 

[T_Rose]

I was accepted into a dual-degree program this year. I haven't started either degree yet, so I can't really give you that much advice. My GPA was just average, and I really didn't have that much research experience (about 100 hours at the time of application and continued to gain experience), but I was accepted. I posted my stats on the accepted stats thread for this year. I was guaranteed a scholarship, tuition waiver, and stipend during different parts of the program.

At my school, you tell them you are interested in the program on your supplemental application. Later on, they send essays to those interested people that got interviews for the DVM program. Some of those people are selected to interview for the dual-degree program on the same day as their DVM interview. Then, they make decisions among those that were accepted into the DVM program. From there, accepted students have to be able to find a faculty mentor by the May 15th deadline. My dual-degree interview was the least stressful interview I've had regarding vet school!

I had been interested in the dual-degree program for a few years now, and after I wasn't accepted into vet school my first year of applying, I took a bunch of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology courses. I think that helped me a lot.

 

[Frozenshades]

I'm glad I saw this...

I have a question to add....

If applying to schools with the dual program, can you apply to BOTH, just the DVM AND the dual degree? i.e. what if you would get in for the DVM program but not the dual, but you have interest in the dual, would they discount you for the DVM program automatically if you didn't fit for the dual program?

No, generally I believe admissions were separate. I got nada from the dual program at VMRCVM but was offered admission to the DVM program all the same.

 

[Foxhunter]

I'm also interested in doing research in the area of food animal medicine, because if I don't get into the program that is what I plan on doing. I'm not sure how that works at other schools, for example NC State has a focus area for those in the program that they "strongly suggest you take" which is a problem (sort of?) because I want to do the food animal focus. So I'm curious how that works at other schools.

Since I'm at NCSU, I can tell you that this is basically false. Yes, they will suggest you take it. So far 1 of the 10 of us are actually doing it. The rest of us are focusing on whatever the hell we want to focus on. That track is clinician scientist and a bunch of the electives are electives that would be mind-numbingly boring if you've worked in research a lot, also most of the tracking occurs during years three and four of vet school which is after you've finished the PhD. Don't really worry about this at all. I'll put together a more detailed response when I'm not at work. Also feel free to PM me (I think you might have but it was like during a hell week for me then WW pushed the PM to the bottom of my inbox )

 

[YoSoyRawr]

That's good because I want to focus in food animal medicine, but was told that if I got the DVM/PhD Program I couldn't do it because it was required. So, I checked the site and it said they strongly suggest it so I figured that it was pretty much mandatory. But, thanks for the clarification.

I also had a question about how this program works with veterinary experience. Obviously you still want to get veterinary experience, but how do you balance that with getting sufficiently with getting research experience? I know there is not a specific 30% to 70% ratio or something like that, but I'm trying to figure out what I need to do within the next year to better my chances.


Haha yeah I already messaged you.

 

[CanadianGolden]

I'm a dual degreer at Penn, you can message me if you have specific questions that I might be able to answer.

 

[LeilaFay]

Hi there,

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this... I have finished my first year in a DVM program, and am currently working under scholarship funding within the reproductive research lab. My supervisor asked if I would be interested in completing a MSc while doing my DVM.

Some people think it's a great idea. That it would help my application towards further advanced training.

And another professor said it would hinder my ability to: 1. Gain clinical experience, 2. Get an internship elsewhere post-DVM, since I still have three more years on my DVM.

I'm certainly enjoying what I'm doing right now, and I haven't sat down with my supervisor to discuss logistics and research interests yet, but I thought I would post here to see if anyone in the past has previous experience with this dilemma.

Thanks!

 

[Cutekitten02]

That's good because I want to focus in food animal medicine, but was told that if I got the DVM/PhD Program I couldn't do it because it was required. So, I checked the site and it said they strongly suggest it so I figured that it was pretty much mandatory. But, thanks for the clarification.

I also had a question about how this program works with veterinary experience. Obviously you still want to get veterinary experience, but how do you balance that with getting sufficiently with getting research experience? I know there is not a specific 30% to 70% ratio or something like that, but I'm trying to figure out what I need to do within the next year to better my chances.


Haha yeah I already messaged you.

Hello,

Sis you ever get an answer to this question?

 

[Bailbru]

I am interviewing for dual degree program at Mississippi state, and I am a bit nervous. I know I want to do both research and practice veterinary medicine. I also know one will have to be neglected over the other. I hope I get into the program. At the very least, get into veterinary school stateside.

 

[Njnealon]

Hi! I'm another dual degree student if anyone has a question.

 

[lasergoat]

Any dual degree people from VMRCVM or KSU?

 

[ameropean_chelsea]

Hi! I'm another dual degree student if anyone has a question.

Hey there, I have a bunch of questions about the dvm-phd. Can we pm?

 

[Njnealon]

Hey there, I have a bunch of questions about the dvm-phd. Can we pm?

Hey! yes, sure. Feel free! I'm probably easier to reach via email too, if you want to try [email protected]. I'm on spring break next week, so I'll get back to you then!

 

[Frozenshades]

Any dual degree people from VMRCVM or KSU?

Couple months late...but

 

[lasergoat]

Couple months late...but

 

[Cephal0pod]

Since I'm at NCSU, I can tell you that this is basically false. Yes, they will suggest you take it. So far 1 of the 10 of us are actually doing it. The rest of us are focusing on whatever the hell we want to focus on. That track is clinician scientist and a bunch of the electives are electives that would be mind-numbingly boring if you've worked in research a lot, also most of the tracking occurs during years three and four of vet school which is after you've finished the PhD. Don't really worry about this at all. I'll put together a more detailed response when I'm not at work. Also feel free to PM me (I think you might have but it was like during a hell week for me then WW pushed the PM to the bottom of my inbox )

Hey Foxhunter, would you mind if I PM-ed you about NCSU's dual degree program? I am whirling around going the DVM/PhD route and have some questions!

 

[Foxhunter]

Hey Foxhunter, would you mind if I PM-ed you about NCSU's dual degree program? I am whirling around going the DVM/PhD route and have some questions!

Not in the least.

 

[Evobio]

I'm a dual degreer at Penn, you can message me if you have specific questions that I might be able to answer.

So - you're a Canadian attending Penn in a dual degree? That's where I'd like to be. My fiance is in CA, I'm Canadian, and with a dual M.Sc. in evolutionary ecology, lots of research, farm and a little bit of vet shadow experience, I'm looking at applying to dual programs in the US and around the world (to avoid the ridiculous US costs). Did you get funding or is it still a matter of $200k+ student debt at graduation? I'm 34 and while I'm committed to a combination research/applied practice... in reality graduating at 40+ with a young family and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt is pretty daunting...

 

[hbr1704]

The University of Minnesota dual degree program did have a stipend program worked out. I worked with a dual degree candidate and I believe it was the last two years of vet school were paid for (but then you would receive less of a stipend during the phd part). Granted the U of MN out of state tuition is pretty high. I'd email the schools you are interested in. Also, I do not know if they still offer this.

I am actually considering a dual degree program. Although I am opting to finish my DVM first and then if I am still interested I will get a phd. I know some schools you can do the dvm for 2 years and then get your phd, then go back to vet school. I think I would forget too much of vet school if I stopped in the middle.

 

[sorasea]

So - you're a Canadian attending Penn in a dual degree? That's where I'd like to be. My fiance is in CA, I'm Canadian, and with a dual M.Sc. in evolutionary ecology, lots of research, farm and a little bit of vet shadow experience, I'm looking at applying to dual programs in the US and around the world (to avoid the ridiculous US costs). Did you get funding or is it still a matter of $200k+ student debt at graduation? I'm 34 and while I'm committed to a combination research/applied practice... in reality graduating at 40+ with a young family and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt is pretty daunting...

If CanadianGolden doesn't reply to this and you're asking if international students (not US citizens or permanent residents) are eligible for funding...maybe. PennVet's dual-degree program is funded by an NIH MSTP grant that they share with the med school. The MD/PhD program at Penn does accept international applicants, although the NIH MSTP grant can't be used for international students. So international students are usually granted one or two slots in the MD/PhD program with funding from outside sources. You'd have to ask Penn Vet about whether they have such slots/funding.

AFAIK, Penn is the only one funded by an NIH training grant...so the dual-degree programs at UC Davis, Cornell, etc. might already be funded in a way that treats international applicants equally. If your fiance is in CA, you're probably looking at Davis. Definitely email them directly to ask about international student funding.

 

[Njnealon]

If CanadianGolden doesn't reply to this and you're asking if international students (not US citizens or permanent residents) are eligible for funding...maybe. PennVet's dual-degree program is funded by an NIH MSTP grant that they share with the med school. The MD/PhD program at Penn does accept international applicants, although the NIH MSTP grant can't be used for international students. So international students are usually granted one or two slots in the MD/PhD program with funding from outside sources. You'd have to ask Penn Vet about whether they have such slots/funding.

AFAIK, Penn is the only one funded by an NIH training grant...so the dual-degree programs at UC Davis, Cornell, etc. might already be funded in a way that treats international applicants equally. If your fiance is in CA, you're probably looking at Davis. Definitely email them directly to ask about international student funding.

I believe CSU is funded by an NIH training grant (I was supported under a T32 this year through the school). One thing to note in general, is funding changes/can change yearly at most schools. From what I know now, Davis has support during vet and graduate school (tuition coverage + stipend), CSU is all tuition + stipend only during grad years, Penn I believe is similar to Davis.

 

[Evobio]

Thanks Njnealon and sorasea - that's way more detail than I was expecting. I'll check in with individual schools next...

 

[Njnealon]

Thanks Njnealon and sorasea - that's way more detail than I was expecting. I'll check in with individual schools next...

You're welcome! Glad I could help. If you're applying to CSU, let me know! I might be able to answer some other questions

 

[OwlSee2907]

You're welcome! Glad I could help. If you're applying to CSU, let me know! I might be able to answer some other questions

I noticed this thread is a couple years old and may be a long shot but I am interested in a dual degree program to obtain my DVM/PhD. Is there any way I could ask you a couple questions about it?

 

[supershorty]

@OwlSee2907 , I'm a current DVM/PhD student at Minnesota if you want to PM me questions. Not sure how much Njnealon posts these days...

 

[Balesofhay]

Anyone in the program at Penn still? I'm waiting to hear back from them for both the VMD and the dual degree. Any more information beyond what's on their website would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking at the genomics and bioinformatics for the PhD side of the program.


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[SummerTheLynx]

Anyone in the program at Penn still? I'm waiting to hear back from them for both the VMD and the dual degree. Any more information beyond what's on their website would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking at the genomics and bioinformatics for the PhD side of the program.


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Do you know where your interest lies within that realm?

 

[Balesofhay]

Do you know where your interest lies within that realm?

I like the transcriptomics side of it all the most probably because it's what I'm most familiar with. I didn't know how to code until this past summer during my REU but I'm getting better at that as I do more projects related to it


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[SummerTheLynx]

I like the transcriptomics side of it all the most probably because it's what I'm most familiar with. I didn't know how to code until this past summer during my REU but I'm getting better at that as I do more projects related to it


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Very awesome!