Consults- Memorable/Dismal/Ridiculous/Unique

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I have gotten many phone calls from medicine attendings reporting to me nursing findings without actually seeing the patients themselves. Even worse, sometimes I get nursing calls from medicine patients because the nurse thought the surgeon needed to assess the issue and just bypassed the medicine team.
Yea, I mean it happens ALL the time and as a fellow, I just have to politely go see the patient. When residents do it, I say examine the patient and call me back.

Where I am going to practice as sole vascular surgeon, I am not going to accept that practice.

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Yea, I mean it happens ALL the time and as a fellow, I just have to politely go see the patient. When residents do it, I say examine the patient and call me back.

Where I am going to practice as sole vascular surgeon, I am not going to accept that practice.

Where you practice as sole vascular surgeon you’re going to say “thank you for this consult!” and go see them quickly and cheerfully. It’s a business, man.
 
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I think @Jolie South is Air Force so they will be the only person that can be consulted for a vascular problem. In that same vein it won't be a business, either. Pay will be the same regardless.

I get incredibly annoyed when I am called with nursing findings and the physician hasn't examined the patient. Especially when I'm on home call and they are in house.
 
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Got a consult last week for a bruise on the thigh. “Suspect blood vessel injury”. Patient is not on anticoagulation and it is a run of the mill bruise.

:rolleyes:
 
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Got a consult last week for a bruise on the thigh. “Suspect blood vessel injury”. Patient is not on anticoagulation and it is a run of the mill bruise.

:rolleyes:

Technically correct is the best kind of correct?.....


Reminds me of a consult I got awhile ago from an ED NP for a bruise. I've been trying to block the memory. Granted it was an abdominal bruise from a seatbelt sign after MVC in AM asymptomatic and hemodynamically stable patient who was eating while I saw him in the ED, but I wasn't consulted out of any concern for missed bowel injury, etc. Literally consulted because the CT abdomen without contrast report stated "subcutaneous edema, possible bruising". NP hadn't seen the bruise. I asked why the CT was without contrast; "I don't know" was the answer. Wasn't really wanting to have a Socratic teaching moment, but was curious at this point so risked the write-up and asked why she was concerned about the bruise: "because the CT report mentioned it." Asked what she thought a seatbelt sign could mean; "Maybe bleeding". Repeated my question why the CT was without contrast then....."Oh, maybe it should've had contrast?" Asked if she thought the patient was bleeding internally; "I don't know, that's why I consulted you." Asked what the first signs of internal bleeding were: answer - "maybe bruising."

I then quit talking and went and wept for the future of our nation for awhile.
 
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Technically correct is the best kind of correct?.....


Reminds me of a consult I got awhile ago from an ED NP for a bruise. I've been trying to block the memory. Granted it was an abdominal bruise from a seatbelt sign after MVC in AM asymptomatic and hemodynamically stable patient who was eating while I saw him in the ED, but I wasn't consulted out of any concern for missed bowel injury, etc. Literally consulted because the CT abdomen without contrast report stated "subcutaneous edema, possible bruising". NP hadn't seen the bruise. I asked why the CT was without contrast; "I don't know" was the answer. Wasn't really wanting to have a Socratic teaching moment, but was curious at this point so risked the write-up and asked why she was concerned about the bruise: "because the CT report mentioned it." Asked what she thought a seatbelt sign could mean; "Maybe bleeding". Repeated my question why the CT was without contrast then....."Oh, maybe it should've had contrast?" Asked if she thought the patient was bleeding internally; "I don't know, that's why I consulted you." Asked what the first signs of internal bleeding were: answer - "maybe bruising."

I then quit talking and went and wept for the future of our nation for awhile.

“Have your attending call me.”
 
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Consult from an NP on another service, because their attending wanted the NP to page the resident on my service to ask our attending to please page their attending. They didn't actually want the resident team to consult on the patient.

These are attendings who know each other and have worked together for decades.
 
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Consult from an NP on another service, because their attending wanted the NP to page the resident on my service to ask our attending to please page their attending. They didn't actually want the resident team to consult on the patient.

These are attendings who know each other and have worked together for decades.
Because that is way easier than just calling the other attending's cell phone.
 
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Consult from an NP on another service, because their attending wanted the NP to page the resident on my service to ask our attending to please page their attending. They didn't actually want the resident team to consult on the patient.

These are attendings who know each other and have worked together for decades.

sdnbruh
 
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I have gotten many phone calls from medicine attendings reporting to me nursing findings without actually seeing the patients themselves. Even worse, sometimes I get nursing calls from medicine patients because the nurse thought the surgeon needed to assess the issue and just bypassed the medicine team.

Oh, you mean when surgery dumps a patient on the medical service because managing blood pressure and diabetes is too hard for them, they might still need to eyeball the patient every now and then? Wow, that's so tough, to actually take care of patients.

Hospitalist here. I'm more than happy to take care of your patients after you've killed their kidneys and given them an MI. But the very least you can do is take a look at their wound vac every now and then when the nurse has trouble getting it to work. I have absolutely no problem telling the nurse to call the surgeon about it and not waste my time with this, the same way that you guys have absolutely no problem telling your surgical floor nurses to page me when your POD2 patient is tachycardic and tachypneic and needs to be seen by an actual doctor.
 
Chill out man. You don't think the primary team should know about their patients problems?!
 
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Oh, you mean when surgery dumps a patient on the medical service because managing blood pressure and diabetes is too hard for them, they might still need to eyeball the patient every now and then? Wow, that's so tough, to actually take care of patients.

Hospitalist here. I'm more than happy to take care of your patients after you've killed their kidneys and given them an MI. But the very least you can do is take a look at their wound vac every now and then when the nurse has trouble getting it to work. I have absolutely no problem telling the nurse to call the surgeon about it and not waste my time with this, the same way that you guys have absolutely no problem telling your surgical floor nurses to page me when your POD2 patient is tachycardic and tachypneic and needs to be seen by an actual doctor.

Hi there, welcome to the surgeons’ forum.

I get it. Somehow you stumbled on a thread that is the repository of “things that bug surgeons.” The thread isn’t meant to suggest that there aren’t things that bug hospitalists about surgeons. I’m sure there are many, beyond those you have noted. Honestly, some of the complaints you have are likely held by a lot of surgeons too.

I’m sorry you have some bad experiences with some surgeons. I don’t think anyone in here is going to say that all the complaints here are about all hospitalists. Just some of the things that we see repeatedly that frustrate us.

Many of us get a lot of help with our patients from the medicine folks and appreciate it. Personally my vascular patients tend to be sick as hell with multiple comorbidities and risk factors. I didn’t make them that way, that’s the patient population, and I’d love if I could magically make them healthier for surgery but yeah, surgery tends to stress an already stressed system. My training has focused on salvaging limbs, and repairing complex aneurysmal disease, among other things. I feel comfortable managing basic perioperative medical issues but honestly managing the competing medical issues of a patient with 4-5 active disease processes hasn’t been part of my training. So yeah, I appreciate that there are people who’s training DOES focus on that. Maybe you think we should tack a couple extra years into our training so we don’t require any assistance. But I think the equivalent is saying that IM should take on an extra few years to handle basic surgeries. I’ve already trained for 9 years to do this, and frankly I don’t expect you to understand how to manage the surgical issues.

I’m sorry you don’t feel like your surgeons value you. That’s a shame.

But perhaps your frustration would be better served by creating a thread similar to ours in the IM forum? I doubt posting in this thread is going to help you much.
 
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Hi there, welcome to the surgeons’ forum.

I get it. Somehow you stumbled on a thread that is the repository of “things that bug surgeons.” The thread isn’t meant to suggest that there aren’t things that bug hospitalists about surgeons. I’m sure there are many, beyond those you have noted. Honestly, some of the complaints you have are likely held by a lot of surgeons too.

I’m sorry you have some bad experiences with some surgeons. I don’t think anyone in here is going to say that all the complaints here are about all hospitalists. Just some of the things that we see repeatedly that frustrate us.

Many of us get a lot of help with our patients from the medicine folks and appreciate it. Personally my vascular patients tend to be sick as hell with multiple comorbidities and risk factors. I didn’t make them that way, that’s the patient population, and I’d love if I could magically make them healthier for surgery but yeah, surgery tends to stress an already stressed system. My training has focused on salvaging limbs, and repairing complex aneurysmal disease, among other things. I feel comfortable managing basic perioperative medical issues but honestly managing the competing medical issues of a patient with 4-5 competing and active disease processes hasn’t been part of my training. So yeah, I appreciate that there are people who’s training DOES focus on that. Maybe you think we should tack a couple extra years into our training so we don’t require any assistance. But I think the equivalent is saying that IM should take on an extra few years to handle basic surgeries. I’ve already trained for 9 years to do this, and frankly I don’t expect you to understand how to manage the surgical issues.

I’m sorry you don’t feel like your surgeons value you. That’s a shame.

But perhaps your frustration would be better served by creating a thread similar to ours in the IM forum? I don’t posting in this thread is going to help you much.
I am glad you posted this very nice response. Not at all the tone I expected that post would get. Kudos for being classy and not stooping to their level.
 
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Great post by @LucidSplash

This is a venting forum. People are going to be very one sided, because that's how people are when they vent. I very rarely consult medicine. Because of what I do, most of my patients are outpatient, or fairly healthy. Frankly, I feel a little bad every time I do consult. (Well, maybe not every time. Some patients are just too sick for one physician to handle, especially when that physician has a full OR day and a clinic). But, I never have the nurses page the hospitalist without calling them and speaking to them directly first. Even when I do, I ask them if this is something they'd mind taking or if there's something simply I'm missing that I could just take care of myself. (Maybe that's a mistake, but so far I've never been turned away.) I do that because medicine is a team effort, and I want to be collegial.

It does suck that some surgeons dump their patients on you. It sucks when I get consulted ASAP to the floor for a patient with an uncomplicated otitis externa. There are more courteous docs, and there are less courteous docs. This thread concentrates on experiences with the latter. The point is to try to be the former.
 
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HighPriest, my interpretation of swoopyswoop's story is one of nurses paging them for a patient known to their service. Of course, a new consult always requires an attending-to-attending conversation. However, if you, the ENT physician, performed a tracheostomy on one of my patients, and the patient now has some bleeding around the trach site, that's not something I'm going to be able to do much for. Same thing when the wound vac placed by ortho isn't working anymore. Or the high-grade SBO patient who was admitted to medicine for some reason is having worsening abdominal pain.

[LEFT][SIZE=14px][FONT=rubix][COLOR=rgb(0, 84, 104)]LucidSplash[/COLOR].[/SIZE][/LEFT], I find these threads to be tacky and distasteful. And frankly, it's kind of frustrating to know that you guys are happy to take our business and dump your patients on our service but then go behind our backs to complain about us not wanting to change your dressings for you or troubleshoot your wound vacs.

Also, not that your collegiality should be predicated on a desire for more business, but ten years ago we (hospitalists) had a lot of trouble getting PEGs and trachs done by the one surgical group in town. Guess who stepped up to do all of those? IR. They take these patients no questions asked. Hell, interventional cardiology has mostly edged out vascular surgery where I live, for similar reasons. At the end of the day, I have to do what's right for the patient, and unlike surgeons I don't get to be picky about who my patients are. If IR, IC, and GI are willing to address the pathology without throwing a hissy fit every time we call them about a post-op issue, then they deserve our business.
 
Well, to begin with, if I did a tracheostomy and expected you to take care of any bleeding around the site (assuming it needed any treatment at all), then I'd be an @$$hole and you should definitely start a thread complaining about me.

Same thing with those other situations, to an extent. If you place a wound dressing of any kind, you should deal with it while the patient is admitted. Different story if he or she goes to a SNF with a wound care nurse. Maybe if the SBO was in horrible health I could see asking for a little medicine support.

Ultimately, this kind of thread is water cooler talk. I don't believe for a second that no internist has ever vented about a surgeon anyway at any time. You'll also note that a lot of this thread isn't actually about hospitalists, so it is fairly all-inclusive.

It sounds like a lot of your issues are local issues, btw. I've never turned down an appropriate tracheostomy. Far better for me to place it and make everyone happy than to get a 0300 call to do it emergently. And the IR guys around here don't admit anyone. Ever. So they never have to deal with post operative care, sick patients, etc. anyway. So it seems like kind of a wash for you guys, unless your IR team behaves very differently. If someone places a perc trach here and it starts bleeding, they call me anyway. And I still take care of it.

If I have a patient go in to Afib with RVR or an MI post operatively....I'm still going to consult medicine. Honestly, you see it way more than I do and it's a serious issue, so I'm not doing the patient any favors trying to google what the most up-to-date treatment is at the moment. In the same way I don't get upset when I've seen my fourth "not a cholesteatoma" in the day. I get it. They're hard to diagnose, I have better equipment, I see them more than you do, and if they have one I'm the guy, so it can be a little hit-or-miss. I'm just in a better position to deal with it. I certainly don't get upset for being called about it.

Do....your IR guys not call you if they cause a stroke? They just take care of that?
 
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HighPriest, you and I largely agree. The only thing I would add is that IR (of course) does not admit anyone, they are a purely consult service, but in most hospitals I've been at, ENT behaves the same way aside from their H&N cancer patients. I guess they think I'm much better at ordering unasyn for their RP abscess patients than they are, but they almost never admit any acute pathology, they go to either medicine or the ICU depending on the situation.
 
HighPriest, my interpretation of swoopyswoop's story is one of nurses paging them for a patient known to their service. Of course, a new consult always requires an attending-to-attending conversation. However, if you, the ENT physician, performed a tracheostomy on one of my patients, and the patient now has some bleeding around the trach site, that's not something I'm going to be able to do much for. Same thing when the wound vac placed by ortho isn't working anymore. Or the high-grade SBO patient who was admitted to medicine for some reason is having worsening abdominal pain.

[LEFT][SIZE=14px][FONT=rubix][COLOR=rgb(0, 84, 104)]LucidSplash[/COLOR].[/SIZE][/LEFT], I find these threads to be tacky and distasteful. And frankly, it's kind of frustrating to know that you guys are happy to take our business and dump your patients on our service but then go behind our backs to complain about us not wanting to change your dressings for you or troubleshoot your wound vacs.

Also, not that your collegiality should be predicated on a desire for more business, but ten years ago we (hospitalists) had a lot of trouble getting PEGs and trachs done by the one surgical group in town. Guess who stepped up to do all of those? IR. They take these patients no questions asked. Hell, interventional cardiology has mostly edged out vascular surgery where I live, for similar reasons. At the end of the day, I have to do what's right for the patient, and unlike surgeons I don't get to be picky about who my patients are. If IR, IC, and GI are willing to address the pathology without throwing a hissy fit every time we call them about a post-op issue, then they deserve our business.
I am going to guess the kind of call being vented about is stuff that I have seen also (in my town the hospitalists admit everyone that comes in through er, I didn't start the tradition and I am not going to be the one to stop it if they hospitalists are happy to get those rvus) like being called about something the hospitalist is managing because they also have a question about the dressing or something. Havr also had the nurse call me for something they know the hospitalist is supposed to be called about but they haven't answered the page.
 
If they've got an abscess, and they're not a trainwreck patient, I'll admit. What I often see is they have pharyngitis, but they've been worked up for an abscess and there wasn't one. I don't admit those patients. I'm just available if they decompensate and actually develop an abscess. But, yeah, I do know a lot of ENT guys who don't admit neck/RP abscesses. If it's an otherwise healthy person I always feel guilty not admitting.
 
HighPriest, my interpretation of swoopyswoop's story is one of nurses paging them for a patient known to their service. Of course, a new consult always requires an attending-to-attending conversation. However, if you, the ENT physician, performed a tracheostomy on one of my patients, and the patient now has some bleeding around the trach site, that's not something I'm going to be able to do much for. Same thing when the wound vac placed by ortho isn't working anymore. Or the high-grade SBO patient who was admitted to medicine for some reason is having worsening abdominal pain.

[LEFT][SIZE=14px][FONT=rubix][COLOR=rgb(0, 84, 104)]LucidSplash[/COLOR].[/SIZE][/LEFT], I find these threads to be tacky and distasteful. And frankly, it's kind of frustrating to know that you guys are happy to take our business and dump your patients on our service but then go behind our backs to complain about us not wanting to change your dressings for you or troubleshoot your wound vacs.

Also, not that your collegiality should be predicated on a desire for more business, but ten years ago we (hospitalists) had a lot of trouble getting PEGs and trachs done by the one surgical group in town. Guess who stepped up to do all of those? IR. They take these patients no questions asked. Hell, interventional cardiology has mostly edged out vascular surgery where I live, for similar reasons. At the end of the day, I have to do what's right for the patient, and unlike surgeons I don't get to be picky about who my patients are. If IR, IC, and GI are willing to address the pathology without throwing a hissy fit every time we call them about a post-op issue, then they deserve our business.

Maybe tacky and distasteful, but here you are, contributing your own horror stories of ridiculous patient care issues you’ve had to deal with due to negligent (yes I used the word) surgeons and interventionalists.

I’m not sure if you noticed that I was agreeing with you up there. Your somewhat adversarial tone in response to my post makes me think perhaps you missed it. It sounds like you’ve had terrible interactions with surgeons. I really am truly sorry for that. They’ve made you feel like a dumping ground rather than a colleague and professional resource and that is wrong.

We all get frustrated by both individual and systemic issues. I’m not denying that the problems you describe exist. This thread is basically a repository for the pain caused by these issues. You’ll note a large number of posters are trainees; the people who tend to bear the brunt of inappropriate consults (not just surgical trainees, all trainees). Trainees today, by and large, aren’t really taught about the business side of medicine, and, for them, there is no financial incentive to answer the 5th acute sockopenia consult of the week (or day). Like you say, professionality shouldn’t be predicated on business or reimbursement. But lack of that certainly removes one incentive for good behavior in an environment where overwork and underpay is customary. So yeah we should be better about teaching our trainees professionalism so that when they leave academia they do better. Personally my professionalism is predicated on doing the best I can for my patients and sometimes that means calling in someone who is better skilled at something than I am.

Again, I’m sorry you feel like a dumping ground. I tend to admit a lot of super sick patients to my service and take them to the OR emergently or urgently. When they are still in the hospital 2 weeks after I’ve fixed that issue because of their COPD exacerbation on top of CHF with EF 15 and AKI, keep bouncing back to step down for their respiratory issues because every time we diurese them their creatinine goes through the roof and every time we give them fluid they end up with a rapid response for sats in the 70s, and there are quite literally 60 patients on my service (high volume academic center), yes sometimes I’m begging medicine to take them. At my current place of employment they pretty much always refuse and call it a dump. We’ll consult renal and pulm to help us and sometimes they fight with each other or tell us to give lasix and nebs and sign off. Sometimes they are super helpful. So yeah. I get your pain. I wish we could figure out a way to help these patients leave the hospital faster; but I didn’t break my patients or given them an MI or AKI. That happened while I was trying to save their life or their limb. They arrive broken because you don’t get to be my patient without being in pretty poor health at baseline and I’m only skilled at fixing the plumbing part. For everything else I’m like a handyman when what the patient might really need is a general contractor.

Your situation sounds really ****ty. My gen Surg background means I take pride in managing most of my patients periop care, to the point that I am constantly annoyed by the consult happy culture at my current fellowship location. Our routine consults are all called in through a central paging system. I never get to talk to a doc and half the time by the time I get the consult, the person who put it in is gone and it’s pretty difficult to find who is currently taking care of the patient. I hate it. I made sure to choose something different for my post-training career.

So, maybe stick around and contribute your knowledge here, collegially, and in the IM forum. A quick scan there shows me lots of hospitalist-centered threads. Maybe you can make the next generation (on both sides) better.
 
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Oh, you mean when surgery dumps a patient on the medical service because managing blood pressure and diabetes is too hard for them, they might still need to eyeball the patient every now and then? Wow, that's so tough, to actually take care of patients.

Hospitalist here. I'm more than happy to take care of your patients after you've killed their kidneys and given them an MI. But the very least you can do is take a look at their wound vac every now and then when the nurse has trouble getting it to work. I have absolutely no problem telling the nurse to call the surgeon about it and not waste my time with this, the same way that you guys have absolutely no problem telling your surgical floor nurses to page me when your POD2 patient is tachycardic and tachypneic and needs to be seen by an actual doctor.

Don't know why you're so unhappy. If a nurse pages me about a concern that is more appropriately handled by a consulting service, I or my team evaluate the patient, do a basic work up, and let the consulting team know. I don't tell them to page the consulting team without bothering to look at the issue myself unless it is an emergency (and not once has one of the pages I'm complaining about been remotely emergent). Never in my life have I asked a nurse to page medicine for a non-emergent change in patient status without first evaluating the patient and initiating a work up.

I don't know where you are, but where I am it is extremely rare to admit a patient to a non-surgical service, and it is practically unheard of to have operated on a patient and then asked medicine to be primary. We are quite capable of managing post-op problems and a pretty vast span of comorbidities.
 
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Additionally, I personally wouldn't mind you sharing your surgeon horror stories. Honestly, I think you'll find that most surgeons get pretty pi$$ed off when they hear about other surgeons acting like @$$hats. I know I do. In the most arrogant way possible, I think most surgeons hold other surgeons to a higher standard. THere have been ER guys posting on this thread. I think a radiologist at least once.
 
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@lucidspash’s response is mature and thoughtful. Mine is this: Chill out dude. You might be upset about us calling you for BP management, and that sucks, but at least you get to go home at the end of your shift, while we operate from 730am to 430am the following morning, and then start a full day of clinic at 730am the same day. (Did this last week, and do regularly when trauma levels are high.) You chose this life, and you have the lifestyle to show for it. So save the complaints for something that actually matters.

Asking a primary team to evaluate their own patient is really a low standard, and yet it’s frequently a problem when I get a consult from medicine, as last night... at 1am.

Hospitalist: “I have a stat consult for a necrotic diabetic foot ulcer, I’m keeping it NPO for now until you see it, and I would really like it to be seen before the morning.”
Me (having operated for 14 hours and just got home at midnight): “what’s the concern?”
Hospitalist: “Gas gangrene.”
Me: “the patient has normal vitals. No fever. The mri is negative for abscess, gas, or osteomyelitis.”
Hospitalist: “We would still like it seen tonight. Podiatry says they’re not coming so we are calling you.”
Me: “Have you actually seen it? As in, unwrapped the dressing?”
Hospitalist: “No.”
 
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Our hospitalists love to manage postop patients, kidney stones, etc. It's easy money, and they are compensated based on production. "Thanks for the consult", "happy to admit that for you", etc. While I'm perfectly capable of managing hypertension, DM, etc, we TURF almost all of that stuff to the hospitalist service. They put in the orders to call hospitalist for x,y,z, handle the discharge. I handle the urologic issue and any related surgical issues. And in turn, I see any BS consult they want with no pushback.

Very collegial relationship in both directions. It's a win-win situation. I suspect these turf wars happen more in academic settings and places where hospitalists work on pure salary. A few years ago we asked them to take all kidney stones with next AM urology consult unless they are septic, and there was zero pushback. Huge lifestyle improvement for the urologists.
 
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Our hospitalists love to manage postop patients, kidney stones, etc. It's easy money, and they are compensated based on production. "Thanks for the consult", "happy to admit that for you", etc. While I'm perfectly capable of managing hypertension, DM, etc, we TURF almost all of that stuff to the hospitalist service. They put in the orders to call hospitalist for x,y,z, handle the discharge. I handle the urologic issue and any related surgical issues. And in turn, I see any BS consult they want with no pushback.

Very collegial relationship in both directions. It's a win-win situation. I suspect these turf wars happen more in academic settings and places where hospitalists work on pure salary. A few years ago we asked them to take all kidney stones with next AM urology consult unless they are septic, and there was zero pushback. Huge lifestyle improvement for the urologists.
It's why outside of academic centers, everyone should be paid on production. It cuts down bitching about consults by probably 99%.
 
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Oh, you mean when surgery dumps a patient on the medical service because managing blood pressure and diabetes is too hard for them, they might still need to eyeball the patient every now and then? Wow, that's so tough, to actually take care of patients.

Hospitalist here. I'm more than happy to take care of your patients after you've killed their kidneys and given them an MI. But the very least you can do is take a look at their wound vac every now and then when the nurse has trouble getting it to work. I have absolutely no problem telling the nurse to call the surgeon about it and not waste my time with this, the same way that you guys have absolutely no problem telling your surgical floor nurses to page me when your POD2 patient is tachycardic and tachypneic and needs to be seen by an actual doctor.

Dude. You need some thicker skin. I’m an ER doc and I’ve learned to just let it go. One surgeon is belittling when you get a CT on an obvious appy, the next is angry at you for calling without a CT. A vascular fellow said I didn’t know what I was doing last week for getting an US on an obviously infected fistula. A different vascular fellow told me a couple months ago there is no reason to ever bother him with a fistula problem before I get an US.

See the next patient, go home to your family and cash your paychecks. Life’s to short to get that angry.
 
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I don’t think anyone here is complaining about getting called to take care of our post op complications.

If my wound vac is beeping, I should be the one checking it. The patient’s dry gangrene looks like it’s converting, yes I should come over. Something is bleeding, hold pressure and I will come look.

What I don’t like is getting a call about a wound with a dressing still on. Getting a call about “patient known to you, PAD” bc the patient is admitted for CHF or something unrelated, no vascular exam is actually done. Or there is a primary medicine patient with a vague concern like abdominal pain with stable vitals and no work up and instead of medicine night float actually seeing the patient, surgery gets consulted “bc we are in house and will see the patient quickly.”

If someone has evaluated the patient and says, I just don’t know. Please come see this patient about x,y,z. I will.

Most of our frustration happens when no one on the primary team has evaluated the patient to actually determine what the issue is before calling or not using common sense.

I recently got consulted for radiologic read of “axillary hematoma, clinically correlate.” I go see this patient and there is a fixed, rock hard axillary mass. It doesn’t take a vascular surgeon to make the determination that this is not a hematoma in a patient with no trauma or instrumentation with a fixed mass that has been present since admission 3 weeks ago. So now I have wasted my time and the patient’s money to offer the non helpful recs of “further imaging to characterize and ultrasound guided biopsy” which were already ordered by the primary team.
 
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I don’t think anyone here is complaining about getting called to take care of our post op complications.

If my wound vac is beeping, I should be the one checking it. The patient’s dry gangrene looks like it’s converting, yes I should come over. Something is bleeding, hold pressure and I will come look.

What I don’t like is getting a call about a wound with a dressing still on. Getting a call about “patient known to you, PAD” bc the patient is admitted for CHF or something unrelated, no vascular exam is actually done. Or there is a primary medicine patient with a vague concern like abdominal pain with stable vitals and no work up and instead of medicine night float actually seeing the patient, surgery gets consulted “bc we are in house and will see the patient quickly.”

If someone has evaluated the patient and says, I just don’t know. Please come see this patient about x,y,z. I will.

Most of our frustration happens when no one on the primary team has evaluated the patient to actually determine what the issue is before calling or not using common sense.

I recently got consulted for radiologic read of “axillary hematoma, clinically correlate.” I go see this patient and there is a fixed, rock hard axillary mass. It doesn’t take a vascular surgeon to make the determination that this is not a hematoma in a patient with no trauma or instrumentation with a fixed mass that has been present since admission 3 weeks ago. So now I have wasted my time and the patient’s money to offer the non helpful recs of “further imaging to characterize and ultrasound guided biopsy” which were already ordered by the primary team.

Yea, it’s funny. I always have this crappy feeling for “soft” consults. You know, the “hey, this guy is a vasculopath, CT isn’t definitive, but he’s pretty tender has a white count of 22k. He makes me uncomfortable.”

Those always end up being the ones where the surgeon thanks me for calling. I usually get a “I don’t know either. We’ll admit and watch him or admit to hospitalist and follow” followed by an op note 2 days later with something catastrophic.

Some doctors (including surgeons) are just d-bags, but most that are good at their job and not jerks are happy when called if you’ve actually done your job first but can’t figure it out. It’s a team sport.
 
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Yea, it’s funny. I always have this crappy feeling for “soft” consults. You know, the “hey, this guy is a vasculopath, CT isn’t definitive, but he’s pretty tender has a white count of 22k. He makes me uncomfortable.”

Those always end up being the ones where the surgeon thanks me for calling. I usually get a “I don’t know either. We’ll admit and watch him or admit to hospitalist and follow” followed by an op note 2 days later with something catastrophic.

Some doctors (including surgeons) are just d-bags, but most that are good at their job and not jerks are happy when called if you’ve actually done your job first but can’t figure it out. It’s a team sport.
This is how it should be as opposed to a ct that gets done for something else and shows some vascular calcifications done without contrast so rads says"can't exclude mesenteric ischemia" and the person calling the consult hasn't done an abdominal exam (because following up the ct was signed out to them or because calling the consult was delegated to them or whatever).
 
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This is how it should be as opposed to a ct that gets done for something else and shows some vascular calcifications done without contrast so rads says"can't exclude mesenteric ischemia" and the person calling the consult hasn't done an abdominal exam (because following up the ct was signed out to them or because calling the consult was delegated to them or whatever).
This is every mesenteric ischemia consult. Plus, the patient is obese and has had zero weight loss or post prandial pain.

Just think for two seconds people!
 
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I agree in that we should be a little more patient with each other and in general have somewhat thick skin. We are all busy and deal with our own unique "weak consults".

That said, I would feel like a complete jacka** if I called a surgeon without at least examining the patient.

Not a surgeon but in a very heavy procedural cardio subspecialty with our own share of "memorable" consults. In general my frustrations also seem to center on being called for something when the consulting doc hasn't even seen or evaluated the patient.

After 8 yrs of training I've gotten past the annoyance of supposed weak consults and I don't mind seeing anything, just expect some professional courtesy that the person/team consulting has evaluated the pt to some degree.

I'm at an academic center but for the most part have a good relationship with the hospitalists and surgical subspecialities. Honestly if I'm calling a surgical specialist is likely because poo has hit the fan so no push back there, lol. We rarely admit to ourselves and the hospitalists have some sort of productivity incentive so they don't mind handling those cases. They get credit for it, they don't clog up the teaching/resident services, and we can focus on consults and procedures.
 
Dude. You need some thicker skin. I’m an ER doc and I’ve learned to just let it go. One surgeon is belittling when you get a CT on an obvious appy, the next is angry at you for calling without a CT. A vascular fellow said I didn’t know what I was doing last week for getting an US on an obviously infected fistula. A different vascular fellow told me a couple months ago there is no reason to ever bother him with a fistula problem before I get an US.

See the next patient, go home to your family and cash your paychecks. Life’s to short to get that angry.

If it helps we get criticized mercilessly as surgical residents for the same thing and share your pain perhaps even equally. Why did you get a CT scan on this patient does that change operative management? *Show exact injury to another attending, "why didn't you get a CT scan on this, I always get CT scans on x injury."
 
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If it helps we get criticized mercilessly as surgical residents for the same thing and share your pain perhaps even equally. Why did you get a CT scan on this patient does that change operative management? *Show exact injury to another attending, "why didn't you get a CT scan on this, I always get CT scans on x injury."
Of course you do. That’s a good quarter of surgical training. The goal is to teach you that once you get out, only about 10% of your practice is something the data (or malpractice attorney) tells you you have to do. The rest is just a $&@king loosely-guided-by-education free for all. For the first couple years you’ll look at the guy across town with your same title and wonder how that @$$hole graduated medical school. Then you’ll realize that not everything you were taught is handed down from God, and then you’ll eventually find yourself deviating your practice from what you were explicitly taught - at least in some circumstances.

Because the whole point is to teach you that there isn’t always a single correct answer. They just go about it by tearing you down emotionally. It’s like when Miyagi teaches Daniel-San karate by making do all his housework so he can daydrink.
 
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This is every mesenteric ischemia consult. Plus, the patient is obese and has had zero weight loss or post prandial pain.

Just think for two seconds people!

Your patients don’t have post-prandial pain? Mine have 10/10 pain at all times only relieved by that thing that starts with a D.
 
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Got consulted to trim some PDS tails poking out of a midline incision that was 6 months old on a patient who is likely going toward comfort care soon.

also got consulted for bleeding from an old G-tube site at home which had resolved and not been witnessed in the hospital for the prior 24 hours of admission, in a patient with stable labs and vitals, who is also likely going toward comfort care soon.
 
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I think I need to go back and rewatch the movie, I definitely missed that.
It was implied, Daniel-san

 
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If it helps we get criticized mercilessly as surgical residents for the same thing and share your pain perhaps even equally. Why did you get a CT scan on this patient does that change operative management? *Show exact injury to another attending, "why didn't you get a CT scan on this, I always get CT scans on x injury."

Yep. So glad I'm an attending now and don't have to deal with that cray-cray. Seriously, that stressed me out more than receiving a herniating patient. At least with the herniating patient I knew what to do!

I got a panic call today on my ICU post-op "I think she's leaking CSF out of both of her ears!" While I'm thinking, "Okay, that's not physiologically possible since we were no where near any mastoid air cells," I had a good inkling what was going on since it's not an uncommon call that we get for this exact scenario while I sauntered over to the room as I was just down the hall. The "CSF" was actually tears...from her eyeballs...and it was tracking down her face and pooling in her ears. Cause...she was crying. ;) The family laughed. Mystery solved. Luckily they were tears of relief since her first surgery had to be aborted and we were able to fix her up this time.
 
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Yep. So glad I'm an attending now and don't have to deal with that cray-cray. Seriously, that stressed me out more than receiving a herniating patient. At least with the herniating patient I knew what to do!

I got a panic call today on my ICU post-op "I think she's leaking CSF out of both of her ears!" While I'm thinking, "Okay, that's not physiologically possible since we were no where near any mastoid air cells," I had a good inkling what was going on since it's not an uncommon call that we get for this exact scenario while I sauntered over to the room as I was just down the hall. The "CSF" was actually tears...from her eyeballs...and it was tracking down her face and pooling in her ears. Cause...she was crying. ;) The family laughed. Mystery solved. Luckily they were tears of relief since her first surgery had to be aborted and we were able to fix her up this time.

If I had a dollar for every time an EMT said "there is exposed brain matter" on a trauma, I could have retired from residency. Number of times it was actually exposed brain: zero.
 
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