Convicted Felon - Is Medical School Realistic?

[Gifted Hands]

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So everything I did to build a medical school application - every decision related to my do-goodery and my good judgement to keep any and all opportunities open - that had nothing to do with my getting into medical school? It was simply just a luck of the draw with regards to the events of my interview day? Mind = blown.

No I'm sure you know a great deal about how to get yourself into medical school. You might even have good advice for someone in a very similar position as yourself. However, you don't know anything about medical school admissions or what adcoms will or will not think.

Congrats on getting accepted but no

 

[Venko]

Okay.

I am thinking everyone is passionately on the side of this issue they plan to stay.

To the OP, no one is wishing you ill will in general but as you can see there are differing views on whether you should or you will have a chance in being accepted for medical school.

Maybe we should all leave it at that?

 

[bakedbeans18]

No I'm sure you know a great deal about how to get yourself into medical school. You might even have good advice for someone in a very similar position as yourself. However, you don't know anything about medical school admissions or what adcoms will or will not think.

Congrats on getting accepted but no

LMAO.
If you've read any of my posts, you will have found that I have many, many gaping deficiencies in my application that needed to be remedied to be taken seriously as an applicant. I could not have remedied them if I didn't know anything about medical school admissions, so have a seat son.

 

[487806]

No I'm sure you know a great deal about how to get yourself into medical school. You might even have good advice for someone in a very similar position as yourself. However, you don't know anything about medical school admissions or what adcoms will or will not think.

Congrats on getting accepted but no

Dude you're in preallo. What else do you expect? Blind leading the blind is common and everyone's involved. Unless if you wanted some admin action to restrict these WAMC-type questions for adcoms and anyone not a premed, you'll just have to get used to it.

 

[487806]

Okay.

I am thinking everyone is passionately on the side of this issue they plan to stay.

To the OP, no one is wishing you ill will in general but as you can see there are differing views on whether you should or you will have a chance in being accepted for medical school.

Maybe we should all leave it at that?

I actually have to thank you, @gyngyn and @Goro for taking the time and actually addressing the issue at hand. The amount of bullcrap I see from premeds (including MS0s - sorry!) in this thread arguing about morality and criminal law is getting out of hand, so I thank you guys for keeping it on topic and providing constructive comments.

EDIT: And thanks @Gifted Hands for taking the time as well. Much appreciated.

 

[Gifted Hands]

Dude you're in preallo. What else do you expect? Blind leading the blind is common and everyone's involved. Unless if you wanted some admin action to restrict these WAMC-type questions for adcoms and anyone not a premed, you'll just have to get used to it.

Truth. Almost forgot where I was for a second.

 

[Gifted Hands]

LMAO.
If you've read any of my posts, you will have found that I have many, many gaping deficiencies in my application that needed to be remedied to be taken seriously as an applicant. I could not have remedied them if I didn't know anything about medical school admissions, so have a seat son.

I've never read your posts because I have better things to do but... Cool story. Like I said, I'm sure you know a ton as an applicant. Feel free to offer free seminars at your local college or whatever telling everyone how to be as awesome as you... But until you have sat in an admissions committee meeting for medical school (like I have- and I'm not even pretending to fully understand admissions) than you have no clue about medical school admissions beyond what worked for you. End of story, night night.

 

[487806]

Truth. Almost forgot where I was for a second.

Don't be gone forever! But yeah, I can definitely understand your frustrations and I tend to avoid these types of threads, because the resulting idiotic debate and derailed nonsense kinda pissed me off

But I try my best to save useful advice from you, adcoms, wisemen etc. because I also didn't know how to explain OP's situation.

 

[Gifted Hands]

Don't be gone forever! But yeah, I can definitely understand your frustrations and I tend to avoid these types of threads, because the resulting idiotic debate and derailed nonsense kinda pissed me off

But I try my best to save useful advice from you, adcoms, wisemen etc. because I also didn't know how to explain OP's situation.

Haha yea I hear you. SDN can be an amazing resource but you have to sift through a lot of garbage to find the diamonds.

 

[nothing gold can stay]

There are far too many responses since I last posted in this thread to respond to each individually. The goal was never for me to be psychoanalyzed, although I did get a little defensive and I'm sorry for that. I really just wanted to get a feel for how realistic my goal of becoming a pediatrician is.

Here is the last thing I have to say about what I did, why I did it, and how I feel about it now: Suffering through serious family troubles, major depression, and various other circumstances, I was not mentally or emotionally mature enough at 17 to respond to my circumstances in a healthier way. I was reckless and made a big mistake. I could have hurt or even killed someone, and I'm lucky that I didn't. All I can do in the future to make it right is to not commit any more wrongs, and I hope as a doctor I can contribute to the world in a positive way.

I only spoke of things like "saving" my parents' marriage because I wanted to clarify that I didn't actually hurt anyone, ruin my family's lives, or anything else like that, since that was not completely clear in my OP. I feel intents and consequences of our actions do matter in judgments of character, which a lot of you were undertaking. Also, keep in mind that I would not respond to a medical school interviewer the same way I have been responding to my pre-medical peers on an online, anonymous forum.

 

[medic86]

There are far too many responses since I last posted in this thread to respond to each individually. The goal was never for me to be psychoanalyzed, although I did get a little defensive and I'm sorry for that. I really just wanted to get a feel for how realistic my goal of becoming a pediatrician is.

Here is the last thing I have to say about what I did, why I did it, and how I feel about it now: Suffering through serious family troubles, major depression, and various other circumstances, I was not mentally or emotionally mature enough at 17 to respond to my circumstances in a healthier way. I was reckless and made a big mistake. I could have hurt or even killed someone, and I'm lucky that I didn't. All I can do in the future to make it right is to not commit any more wrongs, and I hope as a doctor I can contribute to the world in a positive way.

I only spoke of things like "saving" my parents' marriage because I wanted to clarify that I didn't actually hurt anyone, ruin my family's lives, or anything else like that, since that was not completely clear in my OP. I feel intents and consequences of our actions do matter in judgments of character, which a lot of you were undertaking. Also, keep in mind that I would not respond to a medical school interviewer the same way I have been responding to my pre-medical peers on an online, anonymous forum.

/thread

 

[bakedbeans18]

I've never read your posts because I have better things to do but... Cool story. Like I said, I'm sure you know a ton as an applicant. Feel free to offer free seminars at your local college or whatever telling everyone how to be as awesome as you... But until you have sat in an admissions committee meeting for medical school (like I have- and I'm not even pretending to fully understand admissions) than you have no clue about medical school admissions beyond what worked for you. End of story, night night.

Whatever you say chief. Let us hope your mind is as gifted as those hands of yours.

 

[487806]

Whatever you say chief. Let us hope your mind is as gifted as those hands of yours.

Was that really necessary?

 

[bakedbeans18]

Was that really necessary?

No, but neither is 90% of anything written on SDN, so I'm giving myself a get out of jail free card for this one.

 

[Microglia]

LMAO.
If you've read any of my posts, you will have found that I have many, many gaping deficiencies in my application that needed to be remedied to be taken seriously as an applicant. I could not have remedied them if I didn't know anything about medical school admissions, so have a seat son.

Your continued posting no longer brings any value to this thread. It's like nails on a chalkboard. We get it, you think OP should be locked up in the stockades, winged, tarred, and feathered. Also, you're the undoubted expert on all things admissions. Cool. Have you even matriculated yet?

OP, I think you have your answer: try for an expungement. It's your best shot, and even if med school doesn't work out, it will open many doors. Mental illness has a serious stigma associated with it that I'm sure you can see med students and premeds alike are not immune to, but there are those of us out there that understand tough circumstances and believe people suffering from them who make a wrong choice can turn it around with treatment, time, and effort. Best of luck, and I hope you'll keep us updated.

 

[Xenoblade]

murderers and rapists shouldn't be rehabilitated barring exceptions (ex. vigilantes).

If you don't rehabilitate them, then some of them will keep murdering and raping people because you didn't intervene to help them. Is that what you really want us to do as a society?

Take a step back. You will realize how dumb your post is.

 

[studentp0x]

If you don't rehabilitate them, then some of them will keep murdering and raping people because you didn't intervene to help them. Is that what you really want us to do as a society?

Take a step back. You will realize how dumb your post is.

lolwhat?

I was clearly implying that they should be locked away for good OR executed. Like I said though, there are exceptions and not all cases are the same. The majority of murders and rapes though are very similar in nature and deserve the same punishment... that is having your life taken from you either directly or indirectly. Otherwise it is unfair in every way to the main victim and the other victims (the main victim's friends/family).

I would assume you americans (mostly) share my tough on crime view 🙂 .

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Bullsh*t. I grew up in a home where my older brother got all of the attention, even in the face of my parents divorce, as well as after one of those parents died. I moved to my town later in grade school, so it was very hard for me to make friends and get included into social circles until I was able to drive and go to other towns and hang out with people that I didn't go to school with. You know what I never did despite feeling underappreciated, attention-starved, and lonely? I didn't burn down my parents house. Why? Because I'm a morally and emotionally stable enough person to know at the age of 17 that it's a terrible thing to do, despite the reasons for doing it. You should not (and probably will not) become a physician - just because you have the grades, OP, doesn't mean you have the level-head necessary to become a physician. I understand that you were just 'a kid' but at the age of 17 better judgement would still be expected, and as someone here has said, it is a personality trait - when you're in medical school and feel constantly defeated by your classmates and underappreciated by the patients you are working with and the resident on your 3rd year rotation, what are you going to do? Shoot up the hospital? You are far too great of a liability for any medical school to take you on. I realize I am being ruthless here, but we don't live in a world where things like this are simply just 'forgiven and forgotten.'

Go get a PhD, work in industry, make damn sure your kids get the attention you feel you didn't, and make damn sure they don't make the same mistakes that cost you the opportunity to pursue your dreams.

Stay thirsty my friends.

Redemption is real, even if you have never lived it. I hope you never have to carry a shame so big it will make you a leper in the eyes of some even when you do anything and everything possible to prove you've changed.

 

[Xenoblade]

I was not mentally or emotionally mature enough at 17 to respond to my circumstances in a healthier way.

Not to attack you, but this is factually not true. In fact, it is around 95-100% not true because it has to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" that you are stable (or to use your own words, "mentally and emotionally mature") enough to stand trial. If your statement was true, you would have been deemed mentally incompetent to stand trial .

And this isn't my opinion. This is the opinion of the licensed and trained psychiatrist that the court used to rule that you were mentally stable enough to stand trial.

I am not going to psychoanalyze you because any human being would employ the very same coping mechanism to rationalize how a "good" person can do "bad" things. (J senpai, let's not have a pointless philosophical debate on what is). I just had to point out how wrong you are op.

In your defense, I can tell that you live/committed the crime in a county with a very hard a$$ DA. I am assuming that you had no priors. I am assuming that it was obvious that there no intent. Based on what you have told me (and assuming that it is true and you didn't omit any details out and aren't lying), then the hard a$$ DA threw the book at you without mercy.

Was there a plea bargain or did the jury convict you? Did the DA throw you a bone and give you a chance to plea it down to a misdemeanor?

OP - READ AND RESPOND PLEASE!!!

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and have no legal training. I don't even know the state that you are in and my opinions are for entertainment purposes and should not be taken as legal counsel. Please seek legal advice from a lawyer who passed the bar in your state as I don't know what I am talking about. Please ignore everything that I wrote above because I am an idiot.

 

[14app91]

I don't think the point of this thread was to come to a decision as to whether or not arson is bad or if the OP has sufficiently "rehabilitated" himself, whatever that may mean, by focusing on the subtext.

I thing @gyngyn pretty much answered the question as well as one can hope. I would be very surprised if the OP would be able to overcome this issue, and I would probably look for a different career. But, best of luck in whatever path you end up choosing, I hope you can truly move forward.

 

[Xenoblade]

lolwhat?

I was clearly implying that they should be locked away for good OR executed. Like I said though, there are exceptions and not all cases are the same. The majority of murders and rapes though are very similar in nature and deserve the same punishment... that is having your life taken from you either directly or indirectly. Otherwise it is unfair in every way to the main victim and the other victims (the main victim's friends/family).

I would assume you americans (mostly) share my tough on crime view 🙂 .

So many things wrong with your post.

Murdering someone is not the same as raping in terms of the "nature" of the crime. However, both are heinous crimes.

It has been well documented that the punishment for the crime has little bearing on how the family feels. 20 years, 30 years, life in prison, execution. What's the difference? People who worked in the DA's office in my area tell me that the sentencing feel like empty gestures to the family because they don't right the wrongs or bring the dead back to life.

And I do believe in rehabilitation. I would much rather rehabilitate someone, and make them functioning members of our society, then have some dead piece of meat that wasted millions of tax payers' money through appeals just to execute him. Plus, I would much rather have the convict rehabilitate himself so that the can realize the gravity of his actions. I want them to feel guilty for what they have done and to live with it for the rest of their lives.

 

[nothing gold can stay]

@Xenoblade , there was no psychiatric evaluation, they don't bother proving every criminal is mentally stable, the burden of proof regarding insanity is on the lawyer/public defender.

I never stood trial, I was offered a plea. I got 7 years of probation instead of 7 to 10 years in prison. Trials are for deciding guilt, not sentences, and I admitted to being guilty of the crime mere minutes after committing it.

Yes, this country has a ridiculously tough criminal justice system. I believe I was pretty harshly punished. In many other countries, I probably would have gone to a mental hospital rather than face possible imprisonment and being held back for the rest of my life. I also might've been sentenced less harshly in a different state/county, I don't know. No priors & no intent to harm, yup.

The plea never reduced the level of felony, no. At first, they tried to classify it legally as a dangerous, non-repetitive felony, but they quickly abandoned that and went with non-dangerous, non-repetitive felony.

@14app91 , yup, and thank you.

 

[Xenoblade]

@Xenoblade , there was no psychiatric evaluation, they don't bother proving every criminal is mentally stable, the burden of proof regarding insanity is on the lawyer/public defender.

I never stood trial, I was offered a plea. I got 7 years of probation instead of 7 to 10 years in prison. Trials are for deciding guilt, not sentences, and I admitted to being guilty of the crime mere minutes after committing it.

Yes, this country has a ridiculously tough criminal justice system. I believe I was pretty harshly punished. In many other countries, I probably would have gone to a mental hospital rather than face possible imprisonment and being held back for the rest of my life. I also might've been sentenced less harshly in a different state/county, I don't know. No priors & no intent to harm, yup.

The plea never reduced the level of felony, no. At first, they tried to classify it legally as a dangerous, non-repetitive felony, but they quickly abandoned that and went with non-dangerous, non-repetitive felony.

@14app91 , yup, and thank you.

I am aware of the bolded sections.

From what I am hearing, it sounds like you had a bad lawyer. Shame on your lawyer for not making you see a psychiatrist. This is actually upsetting to me because you should have had a medical expert weigh in on your mental state. Your lawyer obviously didn't care about your well-being and I get furious when I see sh*tty lawyers handle criminal defense cases like yours and end up with less than optimal results for their clients.

For having no priors, they really punished you harshly, especially if they thought that it was a non-dangerous, non-repetitive felony. It sounds like the DA just had it out for you.

bad lawyer + hard a** DA = **** outcome

I don't know if you read my first post. There is a difference between expunged and sealed in different states. They are not necessarily the same thing. Please investigate this extensively as it is important. Grill your potential lawyers about this. And please, get a different lawyer. One who specializes in expungement/sealing cases. Please do! You might actually have a fighting chance since you were a minor.

Good luck. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and have no legal training. I don't even know the state that you are in and my opinions are for entertainment purposes and should not be taken as legal counsel. Please seek legal advice from a lawyer who passed the bar in your state as I don't know what I am talking about. Please ignore everything that I wrote above because I am an idiot.

 

[nemo123]

Some medical schools that I have seen said that they give special consideration to convicted felons believe it or not.

Are you URM? Don't want to start a fire storm, but you need all the help you can get.

I would drop medicine and go into law. They are forgiving if you say "I have been through the criminal system. I served my time and am a reformed man now. I want to go into criminal law in order to right xyz wrongs." I've seen it happen and have friends who used that narrative to get into law school.

In my state, expunging records =/= sealing up records. If someone expunges their record, they can overturn a felony conviction so that it appears dismissed even if they serve hard time. The catch is that the charge will still show up, and the status is "dismissed" rather than "convicted". Sealing up the records in my state means that the charges will not show up at all and it doesn't show up on your record. So expunging your records can still open you up to questioning from adcom since it might still come up depending on your state. I don't know. you should check and grill your lawyer about this minutia because it gets over looked a lot.

Of course I have to put this here since I don't want to be sued
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and have no legal training. I don't even know the state that you are in and my opinions are for entertainment purposes and should not be taken as legal counsel. Please seek legal advice from a lawyer who passed the bar in your state as I don't know what I am talking about. Please ignore everything that I wrote above because I am an idiot.

Are you sure about this? I've heard that law schools are even more stringent and more reluctant to let anyone with some kind of record in (excluding something like a parking misdemeanor). I have heard they also conduct a federal background check even before you matriculate so even if this was expunged, it will still show up on the federal check.

 

[chenzt]

Are you sure about this? I've heard that law schools are even more stringent and more reluctant to let anyone with some kind of record in (excluding something like a parking misdemeanor). I have heard they also conduct a federal background check even before you matriculate so even if this was expunged, it will still show up on the federal check.

We have certiphi and they can't find expunged records...

 

[Reckoner]

We have certiphi and they can't find expunged records...

Federal (FBI) background checks do return expunged records.

 

[sazerac]

Are you sure about this? I've heard that law schools are even more stringent and more reluctant to let anyone with some kind of record in (excluding something like a parking misdemeanor). I have heard they also conduct a federal background check even before you matriculate so even if this was expunged, it will still show up on the federal check.

LOL

Convicted murderer in Tulane Law School welcomes scrutiny

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2011/09/convicted_murderer_in_tulane_l.html

He robbed and killed an English professor when he was 20yo, served 12 years in prison, and then got in to law school a couple years ago.

 

[chenzt]

Federal (FBI) background checks do return expunged records.

Didn't we go through a federal one via certiphi?

 

[Reckoner]

Didn't we go through a federal one via certiphi?

No, certiphi is a private company. They searched federal criminal records, but it wasn't "federal" in the sense that it was carried out by a gov't agency. The FBI requires fingerprints, calls or writes the people you list as references to ask about you, etc. I had to get one for the place I work earlier this year, and I believe anyone working in a VA hospital gets one. It's pretty intense.

 

[deleted407021]

And I do believe in rehabilitation. I would much rather rehabilitate someone, and make them functioning members of our society, then have some dead piece of meat that wasted millions of tax payers' money through appeals just to execute him. Plus, I would much rather have the convict rehabilitate himself so that the can realize the gravity of his actions. I want them to feel guilty for what they have done and to live with it for the rest of their lives.

You are against execution. I agree. I don't see how, outside of military situations on a battlefield, capital punishment is ethically viable. It seems odd that the state can decide to murder a murderer. The arguments for execution are petty; it will be cheaper for the tax payer, it will provide a sense of vengeance for the family, etc.

When someone being executed makes it into the news, there aren't that many being carried out. We shouldn't be motivated by revenge.

 

[studentp0x]

So many things wrong with your post.

Murdering someone is not the same as raping in terms of the "nature" of the crime. However, both are heinous crimes.

It has been well documented that the punishment for the crime has little bearing on how the family feels. 20 years, 30 years, life in prison, execution. What's the difference? People who worked in the DA's office in my area tell me that the sentencing feel like empty gestures to the family because they don't right the wrongs or bring the dead back to life.

And I do believe in rehabilitation. I would much rather rehabilitate someone, and make them functioning members of our society, then have some dead piece of meat that wasted millions of tax payers' money through appeals just to execute him. Plus, I would much rather have the convict rehabilitate himself so that the can realize the gravity of his actions. I want them to feel guilty for what they have done and to live with it for the rest of their lives.

lolwot

This post is pure nonsense. You're actually saying that giving a lighter sentence WONT affect the victim's family at all? 🙄
Of course executing them or giving them life without parole won't make the family feel good. But giving them any less than that law is capable of is injustice to the family and to society as a whole. I don't believe for a second that a family wouldn't be extremely upset over a lighter sentence.. You're also letting someone who took a life have their life back. Who in their right mind thinks that's fair or justice?
There's a reason the victim's family attends parole hearing dude... or gal.

Also, your thoughts on rehab just show you've never actually dealt or known legit murderers. You're basically saying that you're going to induce extreme guilt in someone who's a sociopath 🙄 .
Like cmon, hop off the liberal horse. Most of those dudes in prison have 0 care for human life.

 

[Xenoblade]

lolwot

This post is pure nonsense. You're actually saying that giving a lighter sentence WONT affect the victim's family at all? 🙄
Of course executing them or giving them life without parole won't make the family feel good. But giving them any less than that law is capable of is injustice to the family and to society as a whole. I don't believe for a second that a family wouldn't be extremely upset over a lighter sentence.. You're also letting someone who took a life have their life back. Who in their right mind thinks that's fair or justice?
There's a reason the victim's family attends parole hearing dude... or gal.

Also, your thoughts on rehab just show you've never actually dealt or known legit murderers. You're basically saying that you're going to induce extreme guilt in someone who's a sociopath 🙄 .
Like cmon, hop off the liberal horse. Most of those dudes in prison have 0 care for human life.

There isn't much of a difference between 20 or 30 years in prison to the family. This is drawing on the experiences from lawyer friends in the DA/Courthouse and personal experience. A friend of mine was brutally murdered and there was this statewide chase for this guy. It received national attention. I am 100% sure you have seen my friends pic on the news. In the end, he was killed. He received his just desserts. But it doesn't change anything since my friend is still dead. Lots of families still don't feel better even if you give the criminal 1, 2, 3, or 4 life time sentences. It just doesn't change anything because your loved one is still dead.

And you can correct and rehabilitate people so that they no longer exhibit those sociopathic tendencies (key word rehabilitate). It is hard (teehee, that is what she said) It is difficult. But it is worth it imho. If done correctly, then they will feel like **** for the rest of their lives. The problem is that our criminal system is so broken that it doesn't focus on rehabilitating and more on punishing even though the explicit idea behind the justice system is to rehabilitate. That is largely why we see repeat offenders. IF you disagree with this last statement, then you really don't know anything about the justice system and are merely employing your own idea of idealistic/flawed justice.

Speaking of own form of justice, vigilantism that you said was the exception to the rule to rehabilitating. This is problematic because gang activity can be argued as vigilantism by a good lawyer because homeboy 1 killed homeboy 2 because homeboy 2 sprayed bullets into homeboy 1's neighborhood, killing innocent bystanders. Oh premeds. Talking like they know everything when they know nothing🙄 You should talk to lawyers some time. They will crush your arguments into a pulp so fast because they are so poorly constructed.

And I am not wasting anymore time typing to you about this since this is a waste of my time and it isn't my responsibility to educate you.

I would not want to live in your idea of what society should be.

 

[studentp0x]

There isn't much of a difference between 20 or 30 years in prison to the family. This is drawing on the experiences from lawyer friends in the DA/Courthouse and personal experience. A friend of mine was brutally murdered and there was this statewide chase for this guy. It received national attention. I am 100% sure you have seen my friends pic on the news. In the end, he was killed. He received his just desserts. But it doesn't change anything since my friend is still dead. Lots of families still don't feel better even if you give the criminal 1, 2, 3, or 4 life time sentences. It just doesn't change anything because your loved one is still dead.

And you can correct and rehabilitate people so that they no longer exhibit those sociopathic tendencies (key word rehabilitate). It is hard (teehee, that is what she said) It is difficult. But it is worth it imho. If done correctly, then they will feel like **** for the rest of their lives. The problem is that our criminal system is so broken that it doesn't focus on rehabilitating and more on punishing even though the explicit idea behind the justice system is to rehabilitate. That is largely why we see repeat offenders. IF you disagree with this last statement, then you really don't know anything about the justice system and are merely employing your own idea of idealistic/flawed justice.

Speaking of own form of justice, vigilantism that you said was the exception to the rule to rehabilitating. This is problematic because gang activity can be argued as vigilantism by a good lawyer because homeboy 1 killed homeboy 2 because homeboy 2 sprayed bullets into homeboy 1's neighborhood, killing innocent bystanders. Oh premeds. Talking like they know everything when they know nothing🙄 You should talk to lawyers some time. They will crush your arguments into a pulp so fast because they are so poorly constructed.

And I am not wasting anymore time typing to you about this since this is a waste of my time and it isn't my responsibility to educate you.

I would not want to live in your idea of what society should be.

Given the fact that there's public outrage (through whatever means... online media whatever, makes no difference) from total strangers when a criminal receives a light sentence... your argument holds 0 merit.

Tell me, someone kills your family member and recieves a ~15 year sentence.. does that not upset you? Does it not upset you that they'll be able to walk free and enjoy life? I'm not saying that a life term will make you happy and satisfied, but it sure as hell beats them walking off a free man. What's done is done, but don't act like a beta liberal when you'd jump on the vigilante horse if something ever happened to someone you cared about.

Rehab is bull for most criminals. A general assault? sure. Manslaughter? maybe. Sociopathic violent murderer? hell no.

I also find you may have reading comprehension issues, as I clearly implied it's a case by case basis. I understand how cases can set precedents, and that's why vigilante justice is growned upon. At the same time, how are you going to punish a father who killed the person who murdered and raped his daughter? Or how exactly are you going to "rehab" them? It's a ridiculous thing to even argue against me as we both know there are (uncommon) exceptions to the rule.

Thankfully for the most part, our justice system largely agrees with me. 🙂 The odd cases of justified revenge have been let off with light sentences and such in the past, and violent criminals continue to recieve life terms.

u mad?

 

[Planes2Doc]

There isn't much of a difference between 20 or 30 years in prison to the family. This is drawing on the experiences from lawyer friends in the DA/Courthouse and personal experience. A friend of mine was brutally murdered and there was this statewide chase for this guy. It received national attention. I am 100% sure you have seen my friends pic on the news. In the end, he was killed. He received his just desserts. But it doesn't change anything since my friend is still dead. Lots of families still don't feel better even if you give the criminal 1, 2, 3, or 4 life time sentences. It just doesn't change anything because your loved one is still dead.

And you can correct and rehabilitate people so that they no longer exhibit those sociopathic tendencies (key word rehabilitate). It is hard (teehee, that is what she said) It is difficult. But it is worth it imho. If done correctly, then they will feel like **** for the rest of their lives. The problem is that our criminal system is so broken that it doesn't focus on rehabilitating and more on punishing even though the explicit idea behind the justice system is to rehabilitate. That is largely why we see repeat offenders. IF you disagree with this last statement, then you really don't know anything about the justice system and are merely employing your own idea of idealistic/flawed justice.

Speaking of own form of justice, vigilantism that you said was the exception to the rule to rehabilitating. This is problematic because gang activity can be argued as vigilantism by a good lawyer because homeboy 1 killed homeboy 2 because homeboy 2 sprayed bullets into homeboy 1's neighborhood, killing innocent bystanders. Oh premeds. Talking like they know everything when they know nothing🙄 You should talk to lawyers some time. They will crush your arguments into a pulp so fast because they are so poorly constructed.

And I am not wasting anymore time typing to you about this since this is a waste of my time and it isn't my responsibility to educate you.

I would not want to live in your idea of what society should be.

Speaking of rehabilitation, has anyone seen the show Oz on HBO back in the day? It's sure to change some peoples' perspectives at throwing the book at certain criminals, especially through Tobias Beecher who changed dramatically (for the worse) in maximum security prison.

I won't say anymore since I don't want to spoil the show for anyone who hasn't seen it. It's terrific. It's deep. And it's probably a lot better than Orange is the New Black which I keep hearing about.

 

[Xenoblade]

Given the fact that there's public outrage (through whatever means... online media whatever, makes no difference) from total strangers when a criminal receives a light sentence... your argument holds 0 merit.

Tell me, someone kills your family member and recieves a ~15 year sentence.. does that not upset you? Does it not upset you that they'll be able to walk free and enjoy life? I'm not saying that a life term will make you happy and satisfied, but it sure as hell beats them walking off a free man. What's done is done, but don't act like a beta liberal when you'd jump on the vigilante horse if something ever happened to someone you cared about.

Rehab is bull for most criminals. A general assault? sure. Manslaughter? maybe. Sociopathic violent murderer? hell no.

I also find you may have reading comprehension issues, as I clearly implied it's a case by case basis. I understand how cases can set precedents, and that's why vigilante justice is growned upon. At the same time, how are you going to punish a father who killed the person who murdered and raped his daughter? Or how exactly are you going to "rehab" them? It's a ridiculous thing to even argue against me as we both know there are (uncommon) exceptions to the rule.

Thankfully for the most part, our justice system largely agrees with me. 🙂 The odd cases of justified revenge have been let off with light sentences and such in the past, and violent criminals continue to recieve life terms.

u mad?

Lobbing attacks are we? My reading comprehension is just fine. Don't confuse your misunderstanding with my understanding.

Ex of your ineptitude:
- Someone did kill one of my loved ones. It was all over the news. Had you bother to read my last post, you would know that.
- And my friends are the criminal system in my area. They work in the DA's office and in the courthouse. I mentioned this too. One of my friends is working on a very big case that got national coverage. It was a beating that happened in a sports arena.
- Other friends do rehab for people in the criminal system. Just because you haven't seen it happen doesn't mean that it doesn't. I even explained why this doesn't happen more often (remember my point about the focus/purpose of the criminal system? Probably not because you didn't read)

Geez, your arrogant, condescending, and close minded attitude is just awful. Good luck. I know people like you have lots of issues to deal with.

To answer your question (you mad?) no. I am content. I am merely annoyed at your blatant stupidity.

 

[Venko]

Hi folks,

You are all more knowledgeable and philosophical than I on the issue of conviction / sentencing and the impact upon those who knew victims and perpetrators than me, but I think we can all agree the content is far from the central original topic.

Shall we call it a close on the thread? After all this is a healthcare provider forum and the current discussion probably won't add tremendously to the viewership?

There will be many more debates to sort through...what do you all say? 🙂

 

[487806]

Hi folks,

You are all more knowledgeable and philosophical than I on the issue of conviction / sentencing and the impact upon those who knew victims and perpetrators than me, but I think we can all agree the content is far from the central original topic.

Shall we call it a close on the thread? After all this is a healthcare provider forum and the current discussion probably won't add tremendously to the viewership?

There will be many more debates to sort through...what do you all say? 🙂

Well you, adcoms and @Gifted Hands basically resolved this thread, so yeah. The continued debate is bullcrap and off-topic. @mmmcdowe and @Ismet to the rescue!

And I realize you're being modest, because premeds are no where near your league 😉

 

[Xenoblade]

Hi folks,

You are all more knowledgeable and philosophical than I on the issue of conviction / sentencing and the impact upon those who knew victims and perpetrators than me, but I think we can all agree the content is far from the central original topic.

Shall we call it a close on the thread? After all this is a healthcare provider forum and the current discussion probably won't add tremendously to the viewership?

There will be many more debates to sort through...what do you all say? 🙂

Seconded.

 

[bakedbeans18]

You are against execution. I agree. I don't see how, outside of military situations on a battlefield, capital punishment is ethically viable. It seems odd that the state can decide to murder a murderer. The arguments for execution are petty; it will be cheaper for the tax payer, it will provide a sense of vengeance for the family, etc.

When someone being executed makes it into the news, there aren't that many being carried out. We shouldn't be motivated by revenge.

Eye for an eye. If you violate someones civil rights such as taking away their life, you deserve to have yours taken from you. Thank god we live in a society where there is a mechanism in place to ensure this is executed (carried out, see what I did there?) appropriately. It is further justified by making less cost on the taxpayer dollar and providing closure for the family, but those are not the main reasons why capital punishment exists. Revenge is a great reason, by the way.

 

[Thales]

@buttercup12
We needed a god damn change, and the fire was the catalyst. The years of my mom driving my siblings and I around late at night, crying at the wheel, screaming that she wishes our father was dead. What would you have done?

I saw/endured worse as a child. Not that.

What's bananas about many of the positive, encouraging posts directed at OP is that these same people would probably discourage an applicant from applying who had an Institutional Action on their record for maybe cheating on a test or underage drinking/drug use on campus. If ours is a system where someone with a felony can get into medical school over a student who cheated on a General Bio exam fall semester freshman year, then ours is a seriously effed system.

Agree. I've read a few threads from people asking about IA issues and being told by people flat out that they don't deserve to get into medical school. Heck, I've read posts in which people are flat out told they shouldn't even apply to medical school because they couldn't do well in their pre-req's; "Sorry OP you got a D in Physics, you've proven you don't have what it takes in med school."

 

[mmmcdowe]

Closing thread. Remember, maintain a respectful discussion so that we can fully address issues such as this.