COVID-19 and impact on school

[MixedAnimals77]

Just had our virtual class meeting today. Alot is still in development, but right now it seems most labs will happen especially our spay block for 3rd years. Still working out lab details for the other years. Of course core courses are the top priority after electives which sucks but it is what it is. They are working to have lectures in person&online. So like 1/4 comes M, the next T, etc etc while the rest of us stay at home-how this will be assigned TBD. Masks and daily attestations to COVID symptoms required for all labs/ lectures. Required attendance sign in for any days you come to campus for classes. For the overarching uni no groups of more than 50, with groups of 50 obviously having social distancing in place. Most likely moving anything in person to be done before Thanksgiving break and back to all online after that.
For our 4th years from what I gathered they have been back in clinics since Monday. Half of the rotation is online participating in cases/rounds that way while the other half is actually back in the clinics and they switch half way since rotations are 2 weeks a piece. Masks and attestations required daily for when they are there.

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[Caiter92]

Just had our virtual class meeting today. Alot is still in development, but right now it seems most labs will happen especially our spay block for 3rd years. Still working out lab details for the other years. Of course core courses are the top priority after electives which sucks but it is what it is. They are working to have lectures in person&online. So like 1/4 comes M, the next T, etc etc while the rest of us stay at home-how this will be assigned TBD. Masks and daily attestations to COVID symptoms required for all labs/ lectures. Required attendance sign in for any days you come to campus for classes. For the overarching uni no groups of more than 50, with groups of 50 obviously having social distancing in place. Most likely moving anything in person to be done before Thanksgiving break and back to all online after that.
For our 4th years from what I gathered they have been back in clinics since Monday. Half of the rotation is online participating in cases/rounds that way while the other half is actually back in the clinics and they switch half way since rotations are 2 weeks a piece. Masks and attestations required daily for when they are there.

At least for CP, it’s more of an every other day situation vs switching halfway through. Sounded like everyone had six days and it was assigned at the start of the rotation. I imagine other rotations are doing similar?

What really bothers me is they didn’t make any sort of request at all for people to quarantine for two weeks before the start of clinics. Most people left for spring break and stayed wherever they were when the rest of the year was online. Since Whitman is going into (or is in now?) stage 3, that was just silly to not even try to have people self isolate that were coming from out of state or from hot spots.

 

[LetItSnow]

The increase in case load is insane. I am so glad I had a year to get my feet under me.

And yer frickin' smart.

But yes, the load is unsustainable. People are gonna start dropping.

 

[Coopah]

Cemented? There isn't a single graduate ever that has the basic concepts cemented. Nice try.

It's good to hear y'all are confident it won't be a major player. We rejected our last intern (not related to this topic - based on her interview and clinical trial), and based on decreased clinical training and the unusually high caseload we are seeing have discussed not taking on another this cycle. So I wondered if that was a wider-spread sentiment.

I'm not at all confident that this won't affect basically everything once we graduate. Do I have another choice? Nope, gonna make the best of it. We started clinics this week so that's 8 weeks total in virtual clinics. Right now we're doing half time in person but the other half is still virtual. What this books down to is we're seeing the same (if not more) cases with less people to cover them. Thankfully this isn't me exaggerating this is the clinician telling me I'm covering for about 3 people as I look like I'm coming apart at the edges. (It came with an atta girl so yay). I hope I'm learning enough, I don't know of anything I can do differently so I'm just rolling with it.

 

[TwinkieChi]

Hi everyone I’m set to be starting vet school in the fall but I have a favor to ask everyone. Due to coronavirus budget cuts Nevada might be defunding the WICHE PSEP program. I was wondering if you all could help us bring attention to this and send a message to this link: http://budget.nv.gov/GFO/Feedback_(GFO)/

Anyone can do it even if you’re not a Nevada resident and we have a generic message for you to just copy and paste:

I am writing to discuss the urgent importance of maintaining funding to the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education (WICHE) Professional Student Exchange Program (PSEP). Due to COVID-19, the WICHE office is facing substantial reductions in their budget and the office may not have the funding needed to support WICHE students. This will negatively impact Nevada students who must leave the state to pursue professional education, like veterinary school. Since Nevada does not have an in-state veterinary school, the least expensive option for Nevada students is to pursue a veterinary program at a WICHE participating institution.

WICHE’s PSEP funding is critical for students. Without an in-state option, Nevada students hoping to become veterinarians face substantial increases in debt burden due to high out-of-state tuition costs. WICHE-supported Nevada professionals are guaranteed to work a minimum of 2-4 years in Nevada, which helps to alleviate workforce shortages. WICHE also creates additional employment opportunities that help contribute to a robust Nevada economy. If Nevada is forced to cut funding to WICHE’s PSEP, both the students and the great state of Nevada will face significant losses.

I ask that funding remain available to the hardworking students of Nevada. Please consider the negative impact on students if they are unable to receive WICHE funding to pursue professional education. This funding is vital to Nevada students who are otherwise unable to take on the debt burden that would come with attending an out-of-state veterinary school.

Students have made major life and financial decisions based on WICHE funding and it is deeply unfair to defund WICHE’s PSEP at this time. WICHE funding will alleviate a crushing amount of educational debt for Nevada students. Please do not defund WICHE PSEP.


PLEASE it’ll only take a few minutes. I’m a first generation college student from a family of Mexican immigrants. Receiving WICHE funding gave me hope that my dream was attainable but now with the possible increase in tuition I’m not so sure I will be able to attend CSU in the fall

Thank you all in advance!

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I'm not at all confident that this won't affect basically everything once we graduate. Do I have another choice? Nope, gonna make the best of it. We started clinics this week so that's 8 weeks total in virtual clinics. Right now we're doing half time in person but the other half is still virtual. What this books down to is we're seeing the same (if not more) cases with less people to cover them. Thankfully this isn't me exaggerating this is the clinician telling me I'm covering for about 3 people as I look like I'm coming apart at the edges. (It came with an atta girl so yay). I hope I'm learning enough, I don't know of anything I can do differently so I'm just rolling with it.

Basically exactly how I feel about it. I can't change it, and no amount of being annoyed or upset or stressed is going to change it, so I'm just going with it. But I doubt there's anyone in 2021 who hasn't thought about it...we are all painfully aware that we're getting screwed in many ways and it could have wider effects. It is what it is.

 

[futurebostonvet]

Hi everyone I’m set to be starting vet school in the fall but I have a favor to ask everyone. Due to coronavirus budget cuts Nevada might be defunding the WICHE PSEP program. I was wondering if you all could help us bring attention to this and send a message to this link: http://budget.nv.gov/GFO/Feedback_(GFO)/

Anyone can do it even if you’re not a Nevada resident and we have a generic message for you to just copy and paste:

I am writing to discuss the urgent importance of maintaining funding to the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education (WICHE) Professional Student Exchange Program (PSEP). Due to COVID-19, the WICHE office is facing substantial reductions in their budget and the office may not have the funding needed to support WICHE students. This will negatively impact Nevada students who must leave the state to pursue professional education, like veterinary school. Since Nevada does not have an in-state veterinary school, the least expensive option for Nevada students is to pursue a veterinary program at a WICHE participating institution.

WICHE’s PSEP funding is critical for students. Without an in-state option, Nevada students hoping to become veterinarians face substantial increases in debt burden due to high out-of-state tuition costs. WICHE-supported Nevada professionals are guaranteed to work a minimum of 2-4 years in Nevada, which helps to alleviate workforce shortages. WICHE also creates additional employment opportunities that help contribute to a robust Nevada economy. If Nevada is forced to cut funding to WICHE’s PSEP, both the students and the great state of Nevada will face significant losses.

I ask that funding remain available to the hardworking students of Nevada. Please consider the negative impact on students if they are unable to receive WICHE funding to pursue professional education. This funding is vital to Nevada students who are otherwise unable to take on the debt burden that would come with attending an out-of-state veterinary school.

Students have made major life and financial decisions based on WICHE funding and it is deeply unfair to defund WICHE’s PSEP at this time. WICHE funding will alleviate a crushing amount of educational debt for Nevada students. Please do not defund WICHE PSEP.


PLEASE it’ll only take a few minutes. I’m a first generation college student from a family of Mexican immigrants. Receiving WICHE funding gave me hope that my dream was attainable but now with the possible increase in tuition I’m not so sure I will be able to attend CSU in the fall

Thank you all in advance!

Hi y'all, I'm in the same boat as @TwinkieChi I've created a thread that says approximately the same thing too. Please help us! Even non-Nevada residents can complete the budget feedback form. Nevada WICHE PSEP

 

[PippyPony]

Yup I've got at least one to replace, I have a feeling my Boston one is going too

If it's at Angell, those are cancelled for all of 2020 as far as I know.

(I mean, obviously still check with them because this is just hearsay, but I know a lot of people who are out of luck with externships in the Boston area.)

 

[PippyPony]

It's good to hear y'all are confident it won't be a major player. We rejected our last intern (not related to this topic - based on her interview and clinical trial), and based on decreased clinical training and the unusually high caseload we are seeing have discussed not taking on another this cycle. So I wondered if that was a wider-spread sentiment.

I mean, even if it is the case that online clinics leave us woefully lacking in hands-on skills, I sincerely hope we will not be penalized for it in the job hunt next year. We've had zero control over how this has all played out, and I know most of my class's anxieties around this year already directly stem from the fear of being shut out of jobs and internships because we are unable to get the experience people normally acquire during clinics.

I understand the point about bandwidth, but I think most of us understand we will be a bit of a project to train and will be very grateful for the opportunities offered to us. I also hope we can offer up other skills in place of the clinical ones we missed out on. For example: flexibility, remaining calm & focused in the face of great uncertainty, being excellent team players...

...and proficiency in developing/executing infectious disease control strategies in a veterinary setting

The lack of experience is not for lack of trying, trust me.

 

[Trilt]

Everyone is in the same boat. It's not like some schools *aren't* dealing with a global pandemic right now, lol. I really cannot express how little I think your average employer cares about the specifics of your veterinary education vs. general likeability and ability to learn quickly. Internships, I get that LORs and such may be impacted, but again, EVERYONE who is graduating this year is in that **** canoe.

I'm sad for y'alls lost opportunities because I definitely took many things from outside the school into practice with me. But it's not make or break. Especially in GP... learn to connect to people, explain things simply and well, smile and look **** up and you'll be fine in 95% of situations.

 

[battie]

Illinois will be starting the semester on time. 4th years start back officially on August 3rd, most likely with a mostly intact schedule following social distancing and mask rules as much as possible. Years 1-3 will be in person with no more than 50 people per room. So they're going to have to split up 390 people between 8+ rooms, which is relatively doable. No official word yet on how they're going to handle labs like anatomy, pathology, or junior surgery. But they do have some time between now and then to really get it figured out.

There's also a news article circulating through the student body about how testing is going to be mandatory prior to class, and students will have an app to track cases. The app will tell you if you should get retested (based on risk) and when, and if you've been in contact with a suspected/confirmed case. Our VDL will be handling all the campus testing.

 

[FutureFelineVet]

Had a class meeting and was told potentially we won’t be going back for the fall. St. Kitts is Covid free now and the borders are remaining closed as of now, and are anticipated to be closed in the fall still. They’ve worked out with the government to allow our 7th semester students back in July under extremely strict conditions: have to meet in Miami and be tested for Covid first, board charter plane and when land have to immediately board buses for campus and have to quarantine on campus for two weeks. No pets allowed, and no SOs either I believe m. It’s a trial run and the government will see how it goes and then they (government) will evaluate whether students will be allowed back in the fall. They said we most likely would have to follow same protocol in the fall and the problem is that there’s not enough room in housing for all of the students. So they’re figuring out different plans (like bringing us back in waves, or just bringing back those semesters that need hands on labs like surgery, anatomy, etc.) and said that we could potentially be online again for the fall.

I’m pretty stressed out honestly. We go year round so I’ve already spent this semester online and like my grades are good and everything, but moving back home and trying to study at home and do everything remotely has been really hard. I’m honestly dreading it potentially being drawn out another semester. But it is what it is and just gotta make the best out of it.

 

[FutureFelineVet]

Waiting for the official word, but the classes that will be returning have heard (they’re technically waiting for final confirmation from government) that only semesters 3, 6, and 7 will be returning due to government restrictions. 3rd is returning so they can finish Anatomy, and 6th and 7th for surgery labs. I get it, especially since the island is Covid free, but I’m still really bummed. If anyone has tips for living with parents again for an extended time please feel free to let me know I love them a lot, it’s just trying to do vet school while living at home is a bit rough. I’ll be in 6th in January so I guess I will definitely be back then, which will be good

 

[Missxfurr]

Waiting for the official word, but the classes that will be returning have heard (they’re technically waiting for final confirmation from government) that only semesters 3, 6, and 7 will be returning due to government restrictions. 3rd is returning so they can finish Anatomy, and 6th and 7th for surgery labs. I get it, especially since the island is Covid free, but I’m still really bummed. If anyone has tips for living with parents again for an extended time please feel free to let me know I love them a lot, it’s just trying to do vet school while living at home is a bit rough. I’ll be in 6th in January so I guess I will definitely be back then, which will be good

I feel you on this one! I attend SGU and we are all online for next semester and they haven't mentioned anything about any of our terms returning yet. It sucks missing out on the fun hands on experiences and interacting with the faculty. I lived at home with my parents during this last semester when we were sent home. It was a huge struggle studying at home instead of my island house where it was quiet and everyone else I lived with also was studying when I was. I found that my parents are noisy even when aren't really trying. I could always hear them walking around and opening doors or just them talking to eachother while I was in my room with the door closed was distracting. I eventually made one of our spare rooms into an office and wore noise cancelling headphones to help stay focused. I also made a sign on my door to help remind them not to disturb me when I was studying or watching lectures.

 

[DVMDream]

If anyone has tips for living with parents again for an extended time please feel free to let me know I love them a lot, it’s just trying to do vet school while living at home is a bit rough. I’ll be in 6th in January so I guess I will definitely be back then, which will be good

Trazodone and gabapentin in their drinks. Yeah, that would probably help the most.

Good Luck! My mom has mentioned to me many times it is too bad that Midwestern vet school opened after I was already in vet school as then I could have lived at home and gone to school. I don't think she believes me when I say there is no way I'd ever have been able to do vet school while living at home. I wish you the best! I am sure you will do fine, but yeah, totally get where you are coming from living with parents and attempting to do vet school.

 

[EB73674]

Waiting for the official word, but the classes that will be returning have heard (they’re technically waiting for final confirmation from government) that only semesters 3, 6, and 7 will be returning due to government restrictions. 3rd is returning so they can finish Anatomy, and 6th and 7th for surgery labs. I get it, especially since the island is Covid free, but I’m still really bummed. If anyone has tips for living with parents again for an extended time please feel free to let me know I love them a lot, it’s just trying to do vet school while living at home is a bit rough. I’ll be in 6th in January so I guess I will definitely be back then, which will be good

I’ve had to move back in with the ‘rents twice now - first time was forced due to job loss, second time was by choice to save money. My biggest tips would be 1) don’t let things fester & communicate if something isn’t working, 2) set up a VERY CLEAR delineation of what you expect from each other. If your parents have expectations around household chores & contributions in return for living with them, that should be discussed. If they want you to pay rent, that should be discussed. If you need time dedicated to study that needs to be quiet & undisturbed, find a system so they KNOW you cannot be bothered unless the house is on fire! If you need to keep your grades private for sanity’s sake (I do!), then you need to set that ground rule early. It’s difficult with COVID and everyone social distancing and staying home so much, but try to find some alone time apart from one another. Try to set nights where maybe your parents are out or go to bed early so you can have friends/dates/etc over to hang. My parents and I really get along well, but I have to let them know like a week in advance of all socializing & accept that my mother will freak out about cleaning the house. I just have to accept the process lol. So long as everyone maintains good boundaries & keeps communicating, it works well.

 

[PippyPony]

Our VDL will be handling all the campus testing.

The vet lab is testing human samples?

That's surprising to me, but cool (and obviously more efficient) if true

 

[vetmedhead]

The vet lab is testing human samples?

That's surprising to me, but cool (and obviously more efficient) if true

Ours is testing human samples as well, though I think ones sent to them by the state rather than ones from campus (though that might just be the same thing at this point). Makes enough sense since our diagnostic virology section has more than enough equipment/background knowledge to run those tests appropriately and in large volume

 

[JaynaAli]

I think I saw an article about how OkSU’s dlab is like the biggest tester in the state. They have the infrastructure for outbreaks and the process is the same. Even IDEXX is doing human testing in Maine...I think they set up a temporary testing lab next to the state lab there (so not in like their regular labs).

 

[battie]

The vet lab is testing human samples?

That's surprising to me, but cool (and obviously more efficient) if true

They will be for the campus at least. 51k students are in theory going to be tested this fall prior to the start of class

 

[JJ Bittenbinder]

Current Cornell students tell me they are planning a mix of in person/online for the fall. Probably virtual lecture and in person PBL/small groups and labs. Apparently the plan is to test us before we arrive, when we arrive, and then 5 days after and start class on August 17th. Waiting on the state to approve the plan.

 

[Coopah]

There was a positive case at the school I hope they're ok. I'm glad whoever they were followed protocol and we managed to limit contact and did lots of contact tracing and notified anyone who might be been in contact with them but still sucks. It feels like it's only a matter of time.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

There was a positive case at the school I hope they're ok. I'm glad whoever they were followed protocol and we managed to limit contact and did lots of contact tracing and notified anyone who might be been in contact with them but still sucks. It feels like it's only a matter of time.

There was a case at school here a couple months ago, but it was handled efficiently and no one else got sick as far as I'm aware.

 

[SkiOtter]

They will be for the campus at least. 51k students are in theory going to be tested this fall prior to the start of class

Plus staff/faculty

 

[Minnerbelle]

I mean, even if it is the case that online clinics leave us woefully lacking in hands-on skills, I sincerely hope we will not be penalized for it in the job hunt next year. We've had zero control over how this has all played out, and I know most of my class's anxieties around this year already directly stem from the fear of being shut out of jobs and internships because we are unable to get the experience people normally acquire during clinics.

I understand the point about bandwidth, but I think most of us understand we will be a bit of a project to train and will be very grateful for the opportunities offered to us. I also hope we can offer up other skills in place of the clinical ones we missed out on. For example: flexibility, remaining calm & focused in the face of great uncertainty, being excellent team players...

...and proficiency in developing/executing infectious disease control strategies in a veterinary setting

The lack of experience is not for lack of trying, trust me.

Everyone is in the same boat, so you just do your best and that’s all you can do.

Time will tell when the Federal pandemic unemployment checks run out and millions of people actually start to have money issues who are currently doing okay (or even better than usual), but for now, so many clinics are busier than ever. After the past 2 years of being suuuuper busy, the current busy is driving so many clinicians to the brink. So many of my classmates who started out gp or er associates are leaving their jobs in droves to do relief. As a result soooo many clinics are desperately looking for associates. As much as many say they are too busy to mentor a new grad right now, they’re having a hard time... this years crop of new grads are already accounted for and they are still desperate. So they are killing their current associates with the workload and ****ty entitled clients during the pandemic, and trying to keep their door open with relief vets. Come the winter when they are thinking about next year, if the caseload doesn’t drop off (this is the part that’s hard to predict), clinic owners are going to have to choose between hiring a new grad or continuing to hire relief vets. With so many clinics looking, as long as this looming recession doesn’t hit hard enough to significantly decrease caseload, there will be jobs. Try to find a multi doctor practice where multiple doctors are in the building at all times, so you don’t get the shaft in mentoring. You don’t want to go where one person is responsible for mentoring you, cause often times that falls through... and even more often that person is not someone who should be mentoring anyone. I wouldn’t even bother to ask about “mentoring” because the answer you get it often bull****. If someone tells you they are personally going to mentor you and have this grand plan, it often doesn’t happen that way. No matter how busy it is, if there are 3-4 other doctors around, someone will be available to help you and you don’t need a formal mentor.

No matter what, it’s always a sink or swim anyway. If you are self reliant and motivated and don’t expect others to “be responsible” of you or for you, you can fake it til you make it in GP.

You can hobble through the wellnesses and common presentations in the beginning and you should be able to figure out how to at least get through those quickly. Being great at those take time, but that’s something you work slowly through and get better with each visit. With complicated chronic cases, you always have time. You can always say “hmm gosh your pet has quite the complicated medical hx. I’m currently seeing X (symptom or abnormality) as the forefront problem, but that is odd/I’m not sure exactly how it fits with all of his other problems. So before I haphazardly start making recommendations for it, I’m going to have to think a little more about it/consult a specialist, and I’ll get back to you by the end of the week.” Clients super appreciate that.

Even an acute problem. If it’s serious, and the pet is super sick, have another doctor take a look when you bring the pet for labwork/rads. If the pet isn’t leaving the room because it’s super sick and huge and you’re wondering how to advise between further diagnostics, referral and euthanasia and want to see if you have a reasonable ddx, you can always say, “gosh fluffy is so sick. I’m really worried about him, and we need to figure out a plan for him right now. I think you’re going to have to make serious decisions about his care, as this isn’t something we can just give him medication for and expect him to get better at home. I think I feel something in his abdomen that shouldn’t be there (or some other vague PE finding), and I would like another set of hands to take a feel before we discuss further plans.” And go round the case with another doctor to get ideas and have them come take a peek to confirm your plans. It’s totally ok if you don’t know how to deal with every patient who walks through the door. It usually takes a few years before most clinicians to walk in feeling like they can deal with anything that is thrown at them on their own anyway.

 

[Coopah]

Everyone is in the same boat, so you just do your best and that’s all you can do.

Time will tell when the Federal pandemic unemployment checks run out and millions of people actually start to have money issues who are currently doing okay (or even better than usual), but for now, so many clinics are busier than ever. After the past 2 years of being suuuuper busy, the current busy is driving so many clinicians to the brink. So many of my classmates who started out gp or er associates are leaving their jobs in droves to do relief. As a result soooo many clinics are desperately looking for associates. As much as many say they are too busy to mentor a new grad right now, they’re having a hard time... this years crop of new grads are already accounted for and they are still desperate. So they are killing their current associates with the workload and ****ty entitled clients during the pandemic, and trying to keep their door open with relief vets. Come the winter when they are thinking about next year, if the caseload doesn’t drop off (this is the part that’s hard to predict), clinic owners are going to have to choose between hiring a new grad or continuing to hire relief vets. With so many clinics looking, as long as this looming recession doesn’t hit hard enough to significantly decrease caseload, there will be jobs. Try to find a multi doctor practice where multiple doctors are in the building at all times, so you don’t get the shaft in mentoring. You don’t want to go where one person is responsible for mentoring you, cause often times that falls through... and even more often that person is not someone who should be mentoring anyone. I wouldn’t even bother to ask about “mentoring” because the answer you get it often bull****. If someone tells you they are personally going to mentor you and have this grand plan, it often doesn’t happen that way. No matter how busy it is, if there are 3-4 other doctors around, someone will be available to help you and you don’t need a formal mentor.

No matter what, it’s always a sink or swim anyway. If you are self reliant and motivated and don’t expect others to “be responsible” of you or for you, you can fake it til you make it in GP.

You can hobble through the wellnesses and common presentations in the beginning and you should be able to figure out how to at least get through those quickly. Being great at those take time, but that’s something you work slowly through and get better with each visit. With complicated chronic cases, you always have time. You can always say “hmm gosh your pet has quite the complicated medical hx. I’m currently seeing X (symptom or abnormality) as the forefront problem, but that is odd/I’m not sure exactly how it fits with all of his other problems. So before I haphazardly start making recommendations for it, I’m going to have to think a little more about it/consult a specialist, and I’ll get back to you by the end of the week.” Clients super appreciate that.

Even an acute problem. If it’s serious, and the pet is super sick, have another doctor take a look when you bring the pet for labwork/rads. If the pet isn’t leaving the room because it’s super sick and huge and you’re wondering how to advise between further diagnostics, referral and euthanasia and want to see if you have a reasonable ddx, you can always say, “gosh fluffy is so sick. I’m really worried about him, and we need to figure out a plan for him right now. I think you’re going to have to make serious decisions about his care, as this isn’t something we can just give him medication for and expect him to get better at home. I think I feel something in his abdomen that shouldn’t be there (or some other vague PE finding), and I would like another set of hands to take a feel before we discuss further plans.” And go round the case with another doctor to get ideas and have them come take a peek to confirm your plans. It’s totally ok if you don’t know how to deal with every patient who walks through the door. It usually takes a few years before most clinicians to walk in feeling like they can deal with anything that is thrown at them on their own anyway.

I'm so grateful you're here and handing out great advice. You make the prospect of having a first job seem way less daunting and your experience in the field is invaluable. Thank you for being here.

 

[WildZoo]

Everyone is in the same boat, so you just do your best and that’s all you can do.

Time will tell when the Federal pandemic unemployment checks run out and millions of people actually start to have money issues who are currently doing okay (or even better than usual), but for now, so many clinics are busier than ever. After the past 2 years of being suuuuper busy, the current busy is driving so many clinicians to the brink. So many of my classmates who started out gp or er associates are leaving their jobs in droves to do relief. As a result soooo many clinics are desperately looking for associates. As much as many say they are too busy to mentor a new grad right now, they’re having a hard time... this years crop of new grads are already accounted for and they are still desperate. So they are killing their current associates with the workload and ****ty entitled clients during the pandemic, and trying to keep their door open with relief vets. Come the winter when they are thinking about next year, if the caseload doesn’t drop off (this is the part that’s hard to predict), clinic owners are going to have to choose between hiring a new grad or continuing to hire relief vets. With so many clinics looking, as long as this looming recession doesn’t hit hard enough to significantly decrease caseload, there will be jobs. Try to find a multi doctor practice where multiple doctors are in the building at all times, so you don’t get the shaft in mentoring. You don’t want to go where one person is responsible for mentoring you, cause often times that falls through... and even more often that person is not someone who should be mentoring anyone. I wouldn’t even bother to ask about “mentoring” because the answer you get it often bull****. If someone tells you they are personally going to mentor you and have this grand plan, it often doesn’t happen that way. No matter how busy it is, if there are 3-4 other doctors around, someone will be available to help you and you don’t need a formal mentor.

No matter what, it’s always a sink or swim anyway. If you are self reliant and motivated and don’t expect others to “be responsible” of you or for you, you can fake it til you make it in GP.

You can hobble through the wellnesses and common presentations in the beginning and you should be able to figure out how to at least get through those quickly. Being great at those take time, but that’s something you work slowly through and get better with each visit. With complicated chronic cases, you always have time. You can always say “hmm gosh your pet has quite the complicated medical hx. I’m currently seeing X (symptom or abnormality) as the forefront problem, but that is odd/I’m not sure exactly how it fits with all of his other problems. So before I haphazardly start making recommendations for it, I’m going to have to think a little more about it/consult a specialist, and I’ll get back to you by the end of the week.” Clients super appreciate that.

Even an acute problem. If it’s serious, and the pet is super sick, have another doctor take a look when you bring the pet for labwork/rads. If the pet isn’t leaving the room because it’s super sick and huge and you’re wondering how to advise between further diagnostics, referral and euthanasia and want to see if you have a reasonable ddx, you can always say, “gosh fluffy is so sick. I’m really worried about him, and we need to figure out a plan for him right now. I think you’re going to have to make serious decisions about his care, as this isn’t something we can just give him medication for and expect him to get better at home. I think I feel something in his abdomen that shouldn’t be there (or some other vague PE finding), and I would like another set of hands to take a feel before we discuss further plans.” And go round the case with another doctor to get ideas and have them come take a peek to confirm your plans. It’s totally ok if you don’t know how to deal with every patient who walks through the door. It usually takes a few years before most clinicians to walk in feeling like they can deal with anything that is thrown at them on their own anyway.

Now why couldn't this post have existed before I unwittingly showed up for two shifts where I was flying solo?

 

[DVMDream]

Now why couldn't this post have existed before I unwittingly showed up for two shifts where I was flying solo?

Remember, you're never alone. There's numerous Facebook groups for vets to post cases and get opinions. You've got 355336 SDN vet friends on Facebook you can message as well. I'm typically around and happy to give input on anything.

You're never really alone even if you're the only one in the clinic.

 

[Coopah]

So a bit of an update. We've had two positive cases in the hospital and my entire class is freaking out (not undeservingly). They sent an email that was like hey guys we had a positive case but don't worry there is little risk because we have everyone wearing masks! Which is woefully lacking information. Was the person in just one building? A certain lab? Last time they gave us this information. Half the class wants to go back to virtual and the other half wants more clinic time. I understand both views and am just incredibly frustrated with everything. Apparently some clinicians are literally capping our grades because we're not getting enough interaction. Some services are having us come in once per the two weeks and some are actually 50% in clinics. There are no students on some rotations at all. Our education is going in the toilet and makes me seriously question if any of us will be alright for next year. Hell the cases are going up in our county so this might last the rest of the year. We're getting what a tenth of our education? My current rotation I was supposed to have surgery everyday for two weeks. Instead I have surgery twice. I don't even know what to do about this besides defer a year but I can't do that because loans. Then there's also the threat of getting really sick if they push this too hard and potentially having a long standing health issue. I don't know this while situation sucks and I hate everything.

 

[cohen2000]

The worst part is the complete lack of communication by the administration and the hospital services. We were told clinics would be hybrid, as in part in-clinic and part virtual, and that we'd receive at least 36 weeks of VMTH rotations for our chosen clinical emphasis (which is still far short of what we're paying for). The fact that many rotations have us go in for a half a day once over two weeks, or not at all, demonstrates how we were misled for weeks. I'm not going to learn how to diagnose orthopedic disorders by watching grainy zoom videos. Makes it seem like the people making these decisions don't care whether we enter the profession with any degree of clinical competency, as long as we're out of here before the next class enters clinics.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

So a bit of an update. We've had two positive cases in the hospital and my entire class is freaking out (not undeservingly). They sent an email that was like hey guys we had a positive case but don't worry there is little risk because we have everyone wearing masks! Which is woefully lacking information. Was the person in just one building? A certain lab? Last time they gave us this information. Half the class wants to go back to virtual and the other half wants more clinic time. I understand both views and am just incredibly frustrated with everything. Apparently some clinicians are literally capping our grades because we're not getting enough interaction. Some services are having us come in once per the two weeks and some are actually 50% in clinics. There are no students on some rotations at all. Our education is going in the toilet and makes me seriously question if any of us will be alright for next year. Hell the cases are going up in our county so this might last the rest of the year. We're getting what a tenth of our education? My current rotation I was supposed to have surgery everyday for two weeks. Instead I have surgery twice. I don't even know what to do about this besides defer a year but I can't do that because loans. Then there's also the threat of getting really sick if they push this too hard and potentially having a long standing health issue. I don't know this while situation sucks and I hate everything.

We start monday and they're giving us the line that even though we're doing less and potentially there less things are going to be more efficient and you just won't be standing around waiting for rounds, so it's all okay and evens out. Yeah no. On one hand i don't want to get covid and on the other hand we're graduating in 10 months and I haven't had a single day of in-person clinics. Never mind that surgeries and other essential labs were canceled at the end of third year. Oh and I'm supposed to have professors I barely see write LORs for match? I don't even know what the answer is. I'm so tired of stressing about it. Oh and someone asked about the deferring thing and they told us that they wouldn't be able to guarantee us a spot in next years class LOL.

 

[cohen2000]

We start monday and they're giving us the line that even though we're doing less and potentially there less things are going to be more efficient and you just won't be standing around waiting for rounds, so it's all okay and evens out.

We were given that same line. "Fewer students working with more patients will even out perfectly". Don't believe that for a second. It's complete BS.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

We were given that same line. "Fewer students working with more patients will even out perfectly". Don't believe that for a second. It's complete BS.

I think if they at least admitted that I was getting an inferior education I would feel better, but it's all this pretending that it's all fine and even that is frustrating.

 

[PippyPony]

Honestly, I thought the same thing about the "we're cutting out the busy work!" line... and last week I actually cried when I found out how little time I would have in the hospital for the rotation I was starting...

And it was great.

They actually did cut out the busy work. No more cleaning cages, routine treatments, or doing mindless data entry stuff. We had topic rounds in the morning, and procedures & intake exams were concentrated in the afternoons. It was actually a great use of time, all the time.

I know that won't be the case for all rotations (the one I'm on right now is ... different lol... although I think that may just be the nature of this rotation itself) but it may not all be lip service when admin says they're trying to optimize the in-person experience.

I've also noticed clinicians here going out of their way to be nice to us and offer to help us. They're really trying.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Honestly, I thought the same thing about the "we're cutting out the busy work!" line... and last week I actually cried when I found out how little time I would have in the hospital for the rotation I was starting...

And it was great.

They actually did cut out the busy work. No more cleaning cages, routine treatments, or doing mindless data entry stuff. We had topic rounds in the morning, and procedures & intake exams were concentrated in the afternoons. It was actually a great use of time-- all the time.

I know that won't be the case for all rotations (the one I'm on right now is ... different lol... although I think that may just be the nature of this rotation itself) but it may not all be lip service when admin says they're trying to optimize the in-person experience.

I've also noticed clinicians here going out of their way to be nice to us and offer to help us. They're really trying.

this gives me hope

 

[PippyPony]

And in terms of skills... after some trial-by-fire today, I am now master of the ever-beeping pager that was bestowed upon me yesterday

What's more doctor-y than that?

 

[mmmdreamerz]

And in terms of skills... after some trial-by-fire today, I am now master of the ever-beeping pager that was bestowed upon me yesterday

What's more doctor-y than that?

totes ready for that dvm, now

 

[cohen2000]

I was called in last night for an emergency enterotomy to remove a mid-jejunal foreign body, which was great .

I talked with the resident (who was on orthopedic surgery last week), and he offered to coordinate with the other residents to work with those of us on the ortho rotation to perform examinations on current inpatients outside in the courtyard. As of now, the rotation is completely virtual, with no hands-on experience diagnosing orthopedic disorders. Of course, the resident had to get permission from the orthopedic faculty to do this. They refused outright.

We're trying so hard to meet these people half way so we can get our clinical veterinary education in a safe and responsible manner. It's pretty clear that many faculty here aren't making any effort whatsoever to reciprocate. Very disappointing. Something needs to change, soon.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I was called in last night for an emergency enterotomy to remove a mid-jejunal foreign body, which was great .

I talked with the resident (who was on orthopedic surgery last week), and he offered to coordinate with the other residents to work with those of us on the ortho rotation to perform examinations on current inpatients outside in the courtyard. As of now, the rotation is completely virtual, with no hands-on experience diagnosing orthopedic disorders. Of course, the resident had to get permission from the orthopedic faculty to do this. They refused outright.

We're trying so hard to meet these people half way so we can get our clinical veterinary education in a safe and responsible manner. It's pretty clear that many faculty here aren't making any effort whatsoever to reciprocate. Very disappointing. Something needs to change, soon.

wow that’s terrible. We had a class meeting today and most of our rotations are physically spaced out (More rounds rooms, etc.) instead of virtually spaced...there’s only two or so that are using a partial virtual distancing. I don’t start until Monday so I can’t say for sure what it’ll be like but we definitely don’t have anything like this where it’s completely online.

 

[cohen2000]

wow that’s terrible. We had a class meeting today and most of our rotations are physically spaced out (More rounds rooms, etc.) instead of virtually spaced...there’s only two or so that are using a partial virtual distancing. I don’t start until Monday so I can’t say for sure what it’ll be like but we definitely don’t have anything like this where it’s completely online.

Yep. Ortho is completely virtual. Dermatology is one afternoon in-person out of the entire two week rotation, with grades being capped at an A- for some reason. Ophtho is once per week in-person, and you pretty much have to beg in order to actually do an ophtho exam yourself. Clearly they really do care about our education. What a load of .

Shout out to neurology, community surgery, radiology, and all the large animal services for actually doing a decent job!

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Yep. Ortho is completely virtual. Dermatology is one afternoon in-person out of the entire two week rotation, with grades being capped at an A- for some reason. Ophtho is once per week in-person, and you pretty much have to beg in order to actually do an ophtho exam yourself. Clearly they really do care about our education. What a load of .

Shout out to neurology, community surgery, radiology, and all the large animal services for actually doing a decent job!

wow. I’m sorry that is super rough. Why the grade cap? That’s stupid. As if it’s your fault they’ll only let you come in once?

 

[Minnerbelle]

wow. I’m sorry that is super rough. Why the grade cap? That’s stupid. As if it’s your fault they’ll only let you come in once?

Seriously.... why not just P/F at that point? Essentially it’s mostly a continuation of didactic learning that was haphazardly put together and I doubt faculty are all that into critically grading y’all as rando students they saw in the clinic one day and rest on zoom.

I typically understand how clinic grades are important for those who shine in clinics who kinda sucked with didactic learning. But I’m not sure it’s important for anyone who cares (internships/residencies) what grades you all got in virtual clinics with whatever **** show is going on at each school.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Seriously.... why not just P/F at that point? Essentially it’s mostly a continuation of didactic learning that was haphazardly put together and I doubt faculty are all that into critically grading y’all as rando students they saw in the clinic one day and rest on zoom.

I typically understand how clinic grades are important for those who shine in clinics who kinda sucked with didactic learning. But I’m not sure it’s important for anyone who cares (internships/residencies) what grades you all got in virtual clinics with whatever **** show is going on at each school.

yeah my school went to p/f for clinics this year for this reason

 

[PippyPony]

Seriously.... why not just P/F at that point? Essentially it’s mostly a continuation of didactic learning that was haphazardly put together and I doubt faculty are all that into critically grading y’all as rando students they saw in the clinic one day and rest on zoom.

I typically understand how clinic grades are important for those who shine in clinics who kinda sucked with didactic learning. But I’m not sure it’s important for anyone who cares (internships/residencies) what grades you all got in virtual clinics with whatever **** show is going on at each school.

idk... on the one hand, I agree. On the other hand, I have seen some **** on Zoom, let me tell you.

Professionalism was definitely variable and measurable imo.

Edit: although I suppose that's covered under pass/fail, and arbitrary grades are the worst

 

[PippyPony]

Grade capping seems dumb though

 

[Coopah]

Seriously.... why not just P/F at that point? Essentially it’s mostly a continuation of didactic learning that was haphazardly put together and I doubt faculty are all that into critically grading y’all as rando students they saw in the clinic one day and rest on zoom.

I typically understand how clinic grades are important for those who shine in clinics who kinda sucked with didactic learning. But I’m not sure it’s important for anyone who cares (internships/residencies) what grades you all got in virtual clinics with whatever **** show is going on at each school.

This is what I'm asking. I honestly don't know but I think we brought it up with the administration. Not sure of a response yet.

 

[Minnerbelle]

idk... on the one hand, I agree. On the other hand, I have seen some **** on Zoom, let me tell you.

Professionalism was definitely variable and measurable imo.

Edit: although I suppose that's covered under pass/fail, and arbitrary grades are the worst

Haha, I can only imagine.

It’s actually exceedingly difficult to fail students, especially for attitude/professionalism. But that’s where the references and word of mouth come in. Especially with academic internships/residencies, the world is so connected. If you’re a douche, word gets out man.

 

[WildZoo]

I feel like professionalism is actually the main reason students fail rotations here lol it's harder to fail them for just being incompetent...

But yeah we went P/F as soon as we went online. And future classes were going that route for clinics anyway (technically 3-tier, there's a pass with honors option).

 

[vetmedhead]

I went to the teaching hospital for the first time in fourth year today! Ophtho put together a lab for us to practice enucleations and eyelid mass resections/laceration repairs. Was a really good lab and I'm feeling less grossed out by eyeballs each day, so that's a plus

 

[vetsahoyVMCVM]

Hey all! Hope everyone is doing well and staying safe. What are your guys' vet schools doing this Fall? Everything online/online lectures but in person labs? My school still hasn't told us what our plan is, so I would think it would be the same to others except for the Caribbean schools which I believe are online only.