Crayola's WW Diatribes

[Crayola227]

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totally agree. I like, I think it's STL's or LIS' or a veteran's rule, "If it doesn't die, kill it twice. If it comes back, kill it again."

 

[Crayola227]

StayingPositive2017 said:
Yes, I can see that. If LIS were here, he would tell you not to answer for others because we want to hear their answers. Consider this a gentle tsk as a noob

I don't think this was a tsk moment. He didn't really answer why Pippy hadn't responded, and if anything, it was not only a me, too comment, he also added his own thoughts to what's going on.

I think sometimes LIS is a little too strict with that rule anyway. Sometimes you really need others not to make excuses for others, and sometimes what they want to insinuate about why someone did something is just as informative.

 

[Crayola227]

Besides instituting a punishment for people not opening PMs in my game, I think if I use posting restrictions I'll put in a post minimum, too.

 

[Crayola227]

The thing about Chaos is that while called that, they aren't necessarily about causing chaos. It's just that they have their own win condition, which actually can line up with the village goals or the wolf goals, even. They're a 3rd party. The reason they are called that is because often, though not always, the net affect of their play toward their win condition, which technically doesn't necessarily line up with either village or wolf, can often be chaos creating. Often what it is, is that when their behavior is analyzed, something doesn't quite "add up" because they're not behaving as would be expected of the two regular affiliations.

 

[Crayola227]

You would totally drop that in thread so you and your wolf pack could use Pippy's intel, take out our seer, and still try to distance you from the kill. None of what you just said clears you at all.

Interesting that you don't suggest that Cowgirl is scapegoating you, because she's the wolf, because she knew Pippy was a seer as well. Unless you know that couldn't be the case. Or you're worried that would make you seem like you're scapegoating a villager.

You could both be wolves, much to poor Pippy's terrible luck, and looking to make a wolf to wolf interaction look wolf vs villager to try to clear at least one of you in the village's mind.

 

[Crayola227]

Here's a link to an article I really liked about WIFOM.

Let's talk about WIFOM - MafiaWiki

"Please don't ridicule people because they "use WIFOM arguments." Because as I believe I have just proven, concisely and strongly, every argument is ultimately victim to the WIFOM category. We can debate back and forth, "If X were wrong, he'd never do this!" "What? That's just what she wants us to think!" "That's stupid!" "You're stupid!". But ultimately we need to come to a mutual agreement about how certain persons act, and we shouldn't feel scared if we are incorrect.

The more active and vocal a person is, the more likely they are to be in the public's consciousness, and the more likely they are not only to be criticized for, but also to be investigated. This in no way is what the other people are seeking. I am firmly of the opinion that other people simply wouldn't do what I've been doing, and I ask you to look inside and realize that I am right."

Basically, all arguments are subject to WIFOM. So when you ask yourself if someone is acting as villager or as wolf, you just have to make a judgment call what makes the most sense based on all your data points in game and your meta read, for that person. That's how I do it, anyway.

 

[Crayola227]

I am fully aware that people find comments about how they will be busy, to be a wolfy excuse to be seen on thread less. You know when I wolfed last time I took great pains to provide all the content expected of me. If I was wolf again, I wouldn't mention the excuse, and I wouldn't lie low, because it's seen as wolfy. It seems to me more likely that a villager would risk looking wolfy to excuse what might look like wolf behavior but is unavoidable IRL stuff, to avoid being lynched, as a way to help village. It seems like all downside for a wolf to draw that kind of attention to gameplay.

Unless you wanna think I would do just that so I could say what I've just said. Before you say I'm using WIFOM circular logic, let me point out that my point is that YOU are using that logic to come to a conclusion about me. You'll have to decide based on meta and whatever else I say if my comment has anything to do with my affiliation or if it's just Cray being Cray. As always, comments about my activity are based on truth and nothing else. Try harder.

LIS, you're hard to read as villager or as a wolf, partly because you pick someone traditionally regarded as "sketch," even when it's their typical behavior, and ride them the whole game. It's a throwaway vote to focus that way. It makes you harder to pick out as a wolf, as happened last game.

 

[Crayola227]

Best advice I ever got for WW was just to trust my gut. It's hard. When I learned to listen to my "feelings" I started levitating rocks and killing wolves.

 

[Crayola227]

It takes a village to raise a wolf cub.

Kudos Pippy for being voted as a wolf by a noob when you weren't even playing

 

[Crayola227]

on WZ

-Too village to be true

Separate idea from when I mentioned wolf hunting. I mean that you just have a tendency in my mind to almost never sound sketchy. I don't know why you're like the WW Virgin Mary for me, but you are. Like LIS WW Jesus, it makes me unbelievably paranoid.

-Not a lot of wolf hunting

The "too village to be true" is meant as a huge compliment in the vein above that I could write more pages on, not to being some amazing wolf-catcher, because no one is perfect. I distinguish between wolf hunting vs catching. Hunting is how hard one seems to try - strategizing on thread, via PM, whatever. You could have flow charts at home and I wouldn't know. I only made the hunting comment because I just didn't feel like I got a lot from you to analyze overall. I would never comment negatively on someone's wolf catching record because it's all about effort to me. If you catch all the wolves I'll say congrats, tho.

I should have said, "I can't read WZ well, she's in my blindspot. She tends to be a village leader and hard to lynch in my opinion. That raises my concern about missing her as wolf. My concern is further raised because in addition to all of that, I don't think I'm getting enough data points to lessen my concern. My concern is rising because I'm not sure what her reasons are for voting."

 

[Crayola227]

and I agree with something Pip said about trying to hammer a lynch at lylo, it's a straight up fact if you talk about someone being wolfy enough, their name plus wolf enough times has a subconscious effect and gets people lynched, hence why I don't appreciate my name coming up everyday like it tends to, for just trying to straight up wolf hunt on the thread, while others just sorta pass by and half the time hardly give their thoughts

so far one of the "best" reasons WZ has given for an earlier vote on me was "not wanting to spread the vote out"

she admittedly hasn't tried wolf hunting that hard, and is pushing for what often is the case, my mislynch, but now at lylo when we really can't afford to just treat me like some egg to crack

now, villagers can tunnel villagers, but where I get a sense of dishonesty or things not adding up, plus a sense of "meh, who cares about wolf hunting let's just stick with the same not well supported and often is a village mislynch vote... I'm sticking to *my* vote until I can look more closely

 

[Crayola227]

on AM wolfing (she was a wolf this game)

not really into saying who I think is village right now, I do have to say I feel a bit manipulated by AM this game, usually when we are both villagers we seem to get along pretty well

not that she's at my throat this game, but usually when she's villager just sorta pitches me questions to decide what she thinks I am without expressing much opinion until that opinion is better formed

maybe it's more that when she thinks I'm village she doesn't say much so as not to make me a NK target unless defense really seems needed, and that this game she really has found me more sketch which is why she's voicing more concern

seems like she's doing more to try to direct the game - the idea that she more sits back and gathers intel without giving away too much of her thoughts as a villager, but as a wolf would have more reason to try to pitch things onto thread, sort of makes sense

but I'm not the best AM reader, all I can say is what seems a bit diff this game

 

[Crayola227]

to be fair picking between AM and me isn't a choice a wish on anyone at lylo

 

[Crayola227]

Someone stared at me last night. That's it. I suspect seer of some sort, figure it out guys if it was wolf seer or village seer. I hate to say that, because now maybe I've given a clue to the wolves to narrow to find the seer, assuming it wasn't a wolf seer. Because they will look at those not on my lynch. So really awesome you guys started a train on me to hide the wolves and put a spotlight on the seer.

 

[Crayola227]

I've gotten off Stagg's dick here because he seems open to looking elsewhere. Of course that could be WIFOM, wolves frequently start things and then back off to look like a good guy and an open minded villager (open minded villagers that don't just tunnel are good things).

 

[Crayola227]

From what I got so far from thread, this seems to reflect my perception of reality. I'm debating if the length and detail of each read makes it more genuine, vs not really saying anything but being generally true, which wolves are good at doing.

 

[Crayola227]

She might even look like a better villager as a wolf than when she is a villager (this is true of me, and often true of wolves in general)

 

[Crayola227]

OK, now that I realize Dandy was Seer and was NK, it's quite possible that she did seer me last night, and I got the notification. I've definitely seen games where the seer gets to go down with results. If I modded a game, I would do the same, because it's sadistic for them to die with the knowledge.

 

[Crayola227]

I think lynching absentee people is the exact wrong thing in this game. I think that works better in larger games where losing a few quiet villagers in the hunt for quiet wolves isn't as damning. Plenty of wolves wolf by hiding in plain sight.

I think if we want to look at less activity, than Mel is suspicious, but that's true no matter what he does.

Stagg has proven to be a vocal wolf. He's also pulled the whole "let's go for Cray and then when that looks like a push for easy mislynch back off" as a wolf. He's therefore hard to read and a great threat.

AM will run village as a wolf. I sometimes detect a change in her posting, not always. I don't feel wolf from her this game. However, as soon as I say that, when she's a wolf, she'll do a 180 and come at me HARD.

Paws has also proven that she will "run" village as a wolf.

PBC did this too.

I haven't seen Lawper play many games. He did coast as a noob wolf before, however I absolutely would not expect that from him now, if a wolf.

Honestly, the most suspicious people to me right now are the ones calling for the deaths of more quiet players.

Plenty of wolves will do this, especially as we get to parity and their voices are sounding out as much as the villagers' are.

 

[Crayola227]

Doesn't matter that you're dead, it's worth stating, that it is FAR FAR easier for wolves not to waffle to please the crowd. Villagers truly being in the dark, unless they tunnel which isn't good play, will be FORCED to waffle, there's no other way to play. They will have thoughts and they will be wrong, and they will need to backtrack and adjust as needed.

This is different than EOD waffling. I dunno, waffling is a complex topic, but I think it's fair to say that lack of waffling may be more affiliation indicative than the presence of waffling.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Hero Shot - Mafia Universe Wiki

www.mafiauniverse.com

 

[Animal Midwife]

From MU:
The philosophy of when and how often a player should shoot is debatable. One school of thought is that kills narrow down the pool of suspects, so any player that is not less likely to be scum than random should be fair game for being shot. This same school of thought favors killing on every Night, including Night 0 (when there is no game-related information about any player).

The other school of thought is that Vigilante kills take away majority-rules yeets from the Town, placing too much power in one player's fallible hands. This school of thought advocates only shooting players who are likely to be scum (or even whoever the Town collectively dictates should be shot), and not shooting otherwise.

The best play as a Vigilante is to shoot scum. This requires the Vig to find scum. There is no easy way to do this. However, because of their ability to make or break entire games depending on who they target, Vigs are frequently lauded and/or blamed for their decisions beyond appropriate proportions. Thus, as a Vig your best bet is to make decisions that will not cause you to be hated by every other player in the game. If in doubt, shoot a player that people would want to policy yeet (e.g. lurkers).

Another potential approach to playing a Vigilante is to attempt to predict what the most likely yeet the next day would be, and shoot that player; if they're scum, great, if not, you effectively denied scum the nightkill they'd get after the misyeet tomorrow and so you're still helping. This effectively introduces the Double Day mechanic into the game.

 

[Crayola227]

From MU:
The philosophy of when and how often a player should shoot is debatable. One school of thought is that kills narrow down the pool of suspects, so any player that is not less likely to be scum than random should be fair game for being shot. This same school of thought favors killing on every Night, including Night 0 (when there is no game-related information about any player).

The other school of thought is that Vigilante kills take away majority-rules yeets from the Town, placing too much power in one player's fallible hands. This school of thought advocates only shooting players who are likely to be scum (or even whoever the Town collectively dictates should be shot), and not shooting otherwise.

The best play as a Vigilante is to shoot scum. This requires the Vig to find scum. There is no easy way to do this. However, because of their ability to make or break entire games depending on who they target, Vigs are frequently lauded and/or blamed for their decisions beyond appropriate proportions. Thus, as a Vig your best bet is to make decisions that will not cause you to be hated by every other player in the game. If in doubt, shoot a player that people would want to policy yeet (e.g. lurkers).

Another potential approach to playing a Vigilante is to attempt to predict what the most likely yeet the next day would be, and shoot that player; if they're scum, great, if not, you effectively denied scum the nightkill they'd get after the misyeet tomorrow and so you're still helping. This effectively introduces the Double Day mechanic into the game.

Would have been nice if hero shot was linked in the article from MU, might have saved Zenges life lol. But I never saw it when I looked up the vig article.

 

[alleycat03]

From MU:
The philosophy of when and how often a player should shoot is debatable. One school of thought is that kills narrow down the pool of suspects, so any player that is not less likely to be scum than random should be fair game for being shot. This same school of thought favors killing on every Night, including Night 0 (when there is no game-related information about any player).

The other school of thought is that Vigilante kills take away majority-rules yeets from the Town, placing too much power in one player's fallible hands. This school of thought advocates only shooting players who are likely to be scum (or even whoever the Town collectively dictates should be shot), and not shooting otherwise.

The best play as a Vigilante is to shoot scum. This requires the Vig to find scum. There is no easy way to do this. However, because of their ability to make or break entire games depending on who they target, Vigs are frequently lauded and/or blamed for their decisions beyond appropriate proportions. Thus, as a Vig your best bet is to make decisions that will not cause you to be hated by every other player in the game. If in doubt, shoot a player that people would want to policy yeet (e.g. lurkers).

Another potential approach to playing a Vigilante is to attempt to predict what the most likely yeet the next day would be, and shoot that player; if they're scum, great, if not, you effectively denied scum the nightkill they'd get after the misyeet tomorrow and so you're still helping. This effectively introduces the Double Day mechanic into the game.

I followed the last paragraph’s suggestion on who was likely to be the yeet the next day when I shot N1. Probably should’ve shot True instead, but it seemed like he would be yeeted anyways, while there was some resistance to Pippy’s yeet.