CSU vs ISU

[blumbergler]

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Hello!

I've just been tasked with a decision I didn't think I was going to have to make. I have been offered a spot at CSU after accepting at ISU. I'm having a difficult time making a decision between the two. I never got to visit the CSU campus and I think that's really making the decision difficult for me. I really liked ISU campus while I was there for my interview, but I love the location of CSU. I was also wondering if CSU would offer more in the way of cases due to the more metropolitan area.

I am looking to do small animal, possibly with a residency focus in the future.

I would be OOS for either school and the difference in tuition is about $8K a year. I was wondering if anyone could share some pro/con for both schools or share some personal experiences from either.

Thanks!

 

[Doktor Timo]

$8k a year times four years at 6% interest isn't slim pickings.

The SDN Broken Record Turntable says go to the cheaper one because it really doesn't matter where you go outside of the finances.

 

[katashark]

You could also go poke around the "Factors when picking a school" sticky thread. There's a pro/con list there.

 

[genny]

ISU student here. You'll get an excellent veterinary education at either school. ISU wins on cost. OOS tuition is cheaper, and cost of living in Iowa is pretty low. The only reason I could see to pick CSU is that it's ranked higher and somehow this is worth the extra $40k plus interest that it will cost to go there. That's like paying for a fifth year of vet school without actually getting any additional education.

You will see lots of cases on clinical rotations. ISU redid their small animal hospital in 2012, they've added a bunch of boarded clinicians, and people come from all over the state to go there. I know quite a few students who are going on to small animal internships next year, and a couple equine too. If your grades are good enough, it's easy to get to know your professors and clinicians and get glowing letters of recommendation and get an internship. I love ISU for its sense of community and teamwork. We all made it in to vet school and we're all going to be doctors, so let's help each other make it through.

I think it's great that you liked the ISU campus, but how did you feel about the inside of the vet med building? Because that's really where you live for four years. 🙂

 

[rockatiel]

I'd say ISU, since you visited, liked it, and it's cheaper there, which seems to be a plus since you already liked the school 🙂

 

[Doktor Timo]

Don't forget cost of living as well. Fort Collins ain't cheap.

 

[brandymonte]

CSU has a fantastic program - ranked TOP 3 in the NATION! Not to mention the area is beautiful and there is never a lack of scenery. CSU also provides hands on animal experience during the first year, and ISU does not. If I had that choice to make, I would definitely choose CSU. Jealous.

 

[katashark]

OMG! Rankings!

 

[deleted676737]

CSU has a fantastic program - ranked TOP 3 in the NATION! Not to mention the area is beautiful and there is never a lack of scenery. CSU also provides hands on animal experience during the first year, and ISU does not. If I had that choice to make, I would definitely choose CSU. Jealous.

1. Rankings for vet school mean nothing. For the gazillionth freaking time. AVMA-accredited is AVMA-accredited.

2. Debt:salary ratio is a thing. OP needs to at least consider the finances. Is it worth taking on an extra $40,000+ (when interest + capitalization + the inevitable inflation is applied) in just tuition -- and, as mentioned earlier, COL in Fort Collins is probably higher than Ames -- just to have a few more hands-on opportunities the first year and better scenery? I personally don't think so.

 

[Ashgirl]

CSU has a fantastic program - ranked TOP 3 in the NATION! Not to mention the area is beautiful and there is never a lack of scenery. CSU also provides hands on animal experience during the first year, and ISU does not. If I had that choice to make, I would definitely choose CSU. Jealous.

May I direct you over here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/the-value-of-school-ranking.1194655/

Ranking means absolutely nothing and are based on completely arbitrary things. That extra 5-10 + years that it would take to pay off your loans to go to another school that is a "better ranking?" That means something.

 

[rockatiel]

Doesn't pretty much every school do the hands on thing now?

 

[DVMDream]

Doesn't pretty much every school do the hands on thing now?

Yup. If not via a designated class it for sure occurs in the many many wetlabs that the different clubs have.

 

[brandymonte]

During the student Q/A at the ISU interview they told us that they don't teach hands-on/animal skills until the 3rd and 4th year. You have to try to get involved in hands on activities outside of classes if you want to.

 

[Doktor Timo]

During the student Q/A at the ISU interview they told us that they don't teach hands-on/animal skills until the 3rd and 4th year. You have to try to get involved in hands on activities outside of classes if you want to.

Big deal. The impact of hands-on stuff in the classroom years is way over-stated. Fourth-year is where you actually learn that stuff. Tennessee has plenty of hands-on opportunities throughout the curriculum and I still feel like a total noob going into clinics next Monday.

 

[deleted676737]

During the student Q/A at the ISU interview they told us that they don't teach hands-on/animal skills until the 3rd and 4th year. You have to try to get involved in hands on activities outside of classes if you want to.

Ok. Is that still worth an extra $40,000+ in tuition, though? Especially when there are multiple clubs with wetlabs that will get you the experience if you really want it?

 

[dyachei]

During the student Q/A at the ISU interview they told us that they don't teach hands-on/animal skills until the 3rd and 4th year. You have to try to get involved in hands on activities outside of classes if you want to.

this really doesn't have much impact if any in the "final product" of becoming a vet. It may hold your interest a little better, but you can get the same from joining clubs or finding opportunities on your own. definitely not worth the cost difference

 

[brandymonte]

For me, yes. I learn best with hands on experiences, so the more of that I can get, the better. I was just posting my opinion. I value the location because its where I will be living for 4 years and I also value the amount of hands on practice and opportunities available based on the location of the school. Obviously this decision is not up to me, so no point in trying to convince me of this lol.

 

[dyachei]

For me, yes. I learn best with hands on experiences, so the more of that I can get, the better. I was just posting my opinion. I value the location because its where I will be living for 4 years and I also value the amount of hands on practice and opportunities available based on the location of the school. Obviously this decision is not up to me, so no point in trying to convince me of this lol.

I haven't found a single person that hasn't said this. Most people "learn better by doing". There was a research piece that came out not long ago that said that just because people prefer a certain learning style doesn't mean that it's actually more effective for them.

in either case, those skills are better solidified 3rd and 4th year after getting the basic info down. Doing it first year is of much less value to anyone. 🙂

 

[Doktor Timo]

Here's the thing: everything you get to do hands-on during your lecture years is only done ONCE. And once isn't enough to learn anything. I did one cat spay second-year as part my surgery class. If you put me in an OR right now and ask me to do another, I'm probably not going to be any better at it than a student doing it for the first time. The exposure is fun, sure. But in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't make that big a difference. It absolutely does not have the same impact that saving $40k or more will have.

 

[Ashgirl]

Here's the thing: everything you get to do hands-on during your lecture years is only done ONCE. And once isn't enough to learn anything. I did one cat spay second-year as part my surgery class. If you put me in an OR right now and ask me to do another, I'm probably not going to be any better at it than a student doing it for the first time. The exposure is fun, sure. But in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't make that big a difference. It absolutely does not have the same impact that saving $40k or more will have.

This is a great point. I actually wish our clinical skills class was closer to clinics as opposed to first year. At this point I've forgotten everything and I think it would be so much more useful if it was a block/semester before clinics. Having a clinical skills class first year was fun, but honestly I got way more out of clubs/summer externships, and honestly I think it's more of a "look we have a clinical skills class first semester!!!!!!!!!!" than something that will instantly make you a better vet than someone who got experience 3rd/4th year.

 

[battie]

Go to ISU.

1) 40,000 with more in 6.8% interest is a lot of money. That's a new car. That's a fantastic down payment on a house. That would be money better spent to be put in an accruing interest savings account. That's tuition for your kid to go to a 4 year undergrad. That's an emergency fund. That can be money used for more important things than OOS tution that you don't need to pay.

2) Cost of living is going up in Colorado and isn't worth moving there for if you're just going to just be a student. The cost of living will just add to your debt as you will most likely be living off loans. If you can get rent for $500 per month over $1000 a month, why wouldn't you? And I'm a Colorado native who has used the vet services of CSU for personal and business. If I was offered a position at CSU, but it was OOS tuition, I would still go to Illinois, even though I would only be 1.5 hours from my family/childhood home/friends.

 

[genny]

During the student Q/A at the ISU interview they told us that they don't teach hands-on/animal skills until the 3rd and 4th year. You have to try to get involved in hands on activities outside of classes if you want to.

I've done several of the student panels, so I might have told you that! 🙂 But I probably would also have mentioned that clubs do lots of wetlabs to get you your live animal fix.

I saw the lack of live animals in the classroom as a negative during my first year at ISU. I don't anymore as a third year. I've had plenty of hands-on experience this year, and I don't think I would have learned as much from it if I had done it first year. But that's just my feeling on things. Clearly I'm biased.

 

[blumbergler]

I think it's great that you liked the ISU campus, but how did you feel about the inside of the vet med building? Because that's really where you live for four years. 🙂

I did mean the vet med building! I got the tour while I was there for my interview.

 

[last_rnd]

I would pick where you feel the environment is someplace you'll be comfortable and succeed.
$8k/yr less doesn't mean much if you hate the place and drop out

 

[Minnerbelle]

I would pick where you feel the environment is someplace you'll be comfortable and succeed.
$8k/yr less doesn't mean much if you hate the place and drop out

I bet you'll be even more miserable if you paid $8k/yr more and then dropped out.

Other than being overseas, I don't think location of vet school contributes much to attrition


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[battie]

I would pick where you feel the environment is someplace you'll be comfortable and succeed.
$8k/yr less doesn't mean much if you hate the place and drop out

Somewhere around 2% of people drop out and the majority are those who decide to change their career path or have some sort of crisis. Location of school won't make much difference there, I would think. And just cause you like the school now, doesn't mean you will later.

 

[Doktor Timo]

Not to mention the fact that it's virtually impossible to know if you're going to be comfortable with a specific school/curriculum just by visiting it once or twice. Your relative misery level in vet school is mostly up to you and the choices you make, not your school.

 

[DVMDream]

Your relative misery level in vet school is mostly up to you and the choices you make, not your school.

You may not mean it this way but when people say things like this, it indicates there is something "wrong" with those that dislike vet school. That they should be able to flip some switch inside of them and be happy about vet school. Vet school can just be outright miserable regardless of how positive of an attitude you have. Don't be the person telling others that you choose if vet school is miserable because it often isn't a choice (you either like it or you don't). Some people like vet school and some people hate it and tolerate it for the 4 years they have to be there. And where you attend vet school won't change the above.

 

[Doktor Timo]

You may not mean it this way but when people say things like this, it indicates there is something "wrong" with those that dislike vet school. That they should be able to flip some switch inside of them and be happy about vet school. Vet school can just be outright miserable regardless of how positive of an attitude you have. Don't be the person telling others that you choose if vet school is miserable because it often isn't a choice (you either like it or you don't). Some people like vet school and some people hate it and tolerate it for the 4 years they have to be there. And where you attend vet school won't change the above.

That's reading an awful lot into one sentence.

I never said you can flip a switch and not be miserable. But you can certainly make choices that help minimize the misery that vet school inflicts (choices like maintaining a healthy study/rest balance, getting decent sleep, not comparing yourself to other students, etc.) Of all the choices you can make to prevent misery, the choice of what school you go to is probably the least important.

 

[DVMDream]

That's reading an awful lot into one sentence.

I never said you can flip a switch and not be miserable. But you can certainly make choices that help minimize the misery that vet school inflicts (choices like maintaining a healthy study/rest balance, getting decent sleep, not comparing yourself to other students, etc.) Of all the choices you can make to prevent misery, the choice of what school you go to is probably the least important.

Yeah, that's why I said, "you may or not mean it that way", but it can come across that way. Especially since even with all of the above (which I agree with), vet school can still suck your soul away.

 

[Doktor Timo]

Hence why I said "relative misery level." There's going to be some misery regardless; the volume of said misery can be controlled.

 

[last_rnd]

Meh...
When you're facing an insurmountable debt, like $240k. whats another $32???

There's a difference living near mountains and being surrounded by endless fields of corn & soy.
Maybe you're a small town kinda person. Maybe you've always wanted to live in the mountains. There's a different social climate anywhere you go. Pick a place you'd like see and learn about. Or maybe you're not one to get out of your comfort zone and want the most similar to what you have now.

For example, take buying a house. You can buy a house in the city close all the action, or you can buy a basic house in the boonies. The difference in price is less than 15%. Depending on the type of person you are, either one could be a personal hell.
Life is too short to spend the majority of it suffering counting pennies.

 

[dyachei]

I can see your point but $32k prior to interest isn't "pennies"

It's a significant amount. Just because your debt is already large doesn't mean you should make it larger. That is part of why we get "bubble" economies and recessions.

 

[Ashgirl]

Meh...
When you're facing an insurmountable debt, like $240k. whats another $32???

There's a difference living near mountains and being surrounded by endless fields of corn & soy.
Maybe you're a small town kinda person. Maybe you've always wanted to live in the mountains. There's a different social climate anywhere you go. Pick a place you'd like see and learn about. Or maybe you're not one to get out of your comfort zone and want the most similar to what you have now.

For example, take buying a house. You can buy a house in the city close all the action, or you can buy a basic house in the boonies. The difference in price is less than 15%. Depending on the type of person you are, either one could be a personal hell.
Life is too short to spend the majority of it suffering counting pennies.

The $32 K is just tuition. That isn't counting the (estimated by VIN) $30 K more in living expenses, which is up to $60,000 + ... before interest.

I agree that location can be important, but regardless of where you go you are going to be inside studying a lot, and you can go wherever you like during summer and after vet school. What if that money you saved allows you to actually go to a place you want to live at after vet school? Honestly I personally would be more sad to be in a beautiful place, because I wouldn't be able to enjoy it much during the 4 years of school.

 

[last_rnd]

I can see your point but $32k prior to interest isn't "pennies"

It's a significant amount. Just because your debt is already large doesn't mean you should make it larger. That is part of why we get "bubble" economies and recessions.

If they're worried about bubble economies they shouldn't loan it out in the first place.

 

[dyachei]

If they're worried about bubble economies they shouldn't loan it out in the first place.

you're right. But you have to take personal responsibility.

I mean, otherwise, you're basically saying banks hold all the responsibility and people are unable to handle it themselves because they are stupid or something.

 

[LetItSnow]

Meh...
When you're facing an insurmountable debt, like $240k. whats another $32???

Really? What's another $32k (that's really more like $55 or $65 with interest)??

Um. A nice car? A down payment on a house?

Ya know. Just little things like that that most people eventually want in life.

 

[rockatiel]

I've wanted to live in the big city since forever and I'm going to a vet school in a small Southern town. I don't think I'll be unhappy enough to drop out based on that alone. It's not my preferred location but I can do it for four years lol.

 

[last_rnd]

lol you guys are really depressing.
tell ya what..
20-30 yrs from now we'll revisit this...see how relevant that $30k was
Or $50-60k as has been pointed out.

 

[rockatiel]

Yeah, I think a lot of people with high debt will find it relevant when they can't retire. 20-30 years from now most current vets will probably still be in debt, and the $35k will balloon for years. It's depressing but it's the truth. And if extra debt can be avoided, it should.

People are going to pick what's important to them at the end of the day when choosing a school, location included. But to tell others extra avoidable debt isn't relevant is bad advice.

 

[dyachei]

lol you guys are really depressing.
tell ya what..
20-30 yrs from now we'll revisit this...see how relevant that $30k was
Or $50-60k as has been pointed out.

I'm 5 years down the road. I can tell you *exactly* how relevant $30k is.

It might be depressing, but it's the truth.

 

[Coquette22]

Meh...
When you're facing an insurmountable debt, like $240k. whats another $32???

There's a difference living near mountains and being surrounded by endless fields of corn & soy.
Maybe you're a small town kinda person. Maybe you've always wanted to live in the mountains. There's a different social climate anywhere you go. Pick a place you'd like see and learn about. Or maybe you're not one to get out of your comfort zone and want the most similar to what you have now.

I went to AVC in Prince Edward Island. It is my "in state". I legit hated the province and the town and would never set foot in it again if it weren't for the fact that a classmate is getting married there in September. But you know what? I would never have paid $32,000 to go somewhere I liked more. The school did a fine job of educating me, I met lots of awesome people even if we did get 18 feet of snow in the winter and the rest of the province was small and dull and full of potatoes. The truth is, you won't have a lot of time in vet school to be out and about and exploring those mountains, and $32,000 plus interest is a butt load of money.

 

[Doktor Timo]

lol you guys are really depressing.
tell ya what..
20-30 yrs from now we'll revisit this...see how relevant that $30k was
Or $50-60k as has been pointed out.

Reality is often depressing. It's even more depressing if you deny it until it's too late.

 

[flameshock]

I've wanted to live in the big city since forever and I'm going to a vet school in a small Southern town. I don't think I'll be unhappy enough to drop out based on that alone. It's not my preferred location but I can do it for four years lol.

I have lived/worked in cities most of my life....I definitely prefer them. I chose the ~50k cheaper vet school in the middle of nowhere over the city school I really liked. I definitely feel your pain.

As you said, it's four years. For the money difference, it's worth trying to make it work.

 

[LetItSnow]

I have lived/worked in cities most of my life....I definitely prefer them. I chose the ~50k cheaper vet school in the middle of nowhere over the city school I really liked. I definitely feel your pain.

As you said, it's four years. For the money difference, it's worth trying to make it work.

My dad, in class army sergeant fashion, always told me growing up "You can stand on your head for a month, if you know it's just going to be a month."

Future you will thank present you for saving money. Promise.

 

[DVMDream]

lol you guys are really depressing.
tell ya what..
20-30 yrs from now we'll revisit this...see how relevant that $30k was
Or $50-60k as has been pointed out.

Here is at $200,000...

Here is at $250,000

How much does a 50K difference make?

Well for a 10 year repayment plan it is an extra: $697/month... or a total of $83,690 over the life of the loan...

Very, very few people will be able to afford a 10 year repayment plan...

So 25 year repayment plan is an extra: $421/month... or a total of $126,555 over the life of the loan....

That "only $50K" sure balloons to an insane amount rather quickly. Heck, that second amount is about the price of a small house in some areas.

You might be ok with that difference that is your problem and your decision, but to advise others that taking on that extra debt isn't a big deal is horrible advice.

 

[fredandcessna]

Hello!

I've just been tasked with a decision I didn't think I was going to have to make. I have been offered a spot at CSU after accepting at ISU. I'm having a difficult time making a decision between the two. I never got to visit the CSU campus and I think that's really making the decision difficult for me. I really liked ISU campus while I was there for my interview, but I love the location of CSU. I was also wondering if CSU would offer more in the way of cases due to the more metropolitan area.

I am looking to do small animal, possibly with a residency focus in the future.

I would be OOS for either school and the difference in tuition is about $8K a year. I was wondering if anyone could share some pro/con for both schools or share some personal experiences from either.

Thanks!

I'm currently an ISU undergrad and will be attending ISU for vet school this Fall. Ames is a WONDERFUL place and it's really easy to find a place to live (there are a bunch of places around the vet school)! I'm on the ISU boat, but I may be a bit biased 😉 Good luck making your decision! I'm sure you'll have a wonderful experience with either one you choose!

 

[Golden20]

Hello!

I've just been tasked with a decision I didn't think I was going to have to make. I have been offered a spot at CSU after accepting at ISU. I'm having a difficult time making a decision between the two. I never got to visit the CSU campus and I think that's really making the decision difficult for me. I really liked ISU campus while I was there for my interview, but I love the location of CSU. I was also wondering if CSU would offer more in the way of cases due to the more metropolitan area.

I am looking to do small animal, possibly with a residency focus in the future.

I would be OOS for either school and the difference in tuition is about $8K a year. I was wondering if anyone could share some pro/con for both schools or share some personal experiences from either.

Thanks!

What did you end up choosing? I'm now facing the same decision...

 

[blumbergler]

What did you end up choosing? I'm now facing the same decision...

I ended up going with ISU! I didn't think the cost difference was worth CSU either for tuition or cost of living. I also actually preferred the curriculum that ISU had. I liked their option for elective courses and that they don't rank students.

I think the thing that helped me decide the most was really giving the two schools a thorough look over through their websites in addition to the comments made on here.