D.O. or Carribean?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members don't see this ad :)
DOGBOY2 said:
I have a couple observations. Its seems that it is ok for DO's to bash carribean MD schools even though they have no first hand knowledge of these schools and when someone speaks about DO schools you guys flip out. You are being very hypocritical. Next admit that you have a bias for DO schools becaue youm are in DO schools. Next how can you say you would walk out the door if you knew the doctor had a carribean MD degree without knowing his/her qualifications being that that is the party line when it comes to being a DO. "As soon as they see how good of a doctor DO's are they will not care about the initials after the name." But it is OK to have that attitude against a caribbean MD. Very perplexing to me. I also think that people who go DO route should stop running around saying that "I never knew about DO until I researched the philosophy and see how much it fits my beliefs and now I want to be a DO", when a look at GPA and MCAT will reveal the real reason they are becoming a DO. Finally do you really think that physicians you go and ask about what they think about DO's are going to say to your face that there is bias against DO's or that they consider them equals if they know you are a DO student? Think about it. These are just some of my observations and let it be said I do think DO's are equals with MD's I just get tired of all the hypocrisy floating around here
Click to expand...

I'm amused by DOs who try to put down IMG schools. It's laughable especially if you look at the passing rates along with the match rates. Plenty of IMGs get more competitive residencies that DOs don't get. And the fail rate is also only about 10% less than IMGs, right?
 
Anastomoses said:
I'm amused by DOs who try to put down IMG schools. It's laughable especially if you look at the passing rates along with the match rates. Plenty of IMGs get more competitive residencies that DOs don't get. And the fail rate is also only about 10% less than IMGs, right?
Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to look at attrition rates sometime.
 
Anastomoses said:
I'm amused by DOs who try to put down IMG schools. It's laughable especially if you look at the passing rates along with the match rates. Plenty of IMGs get more competitive residencies that DOs don't get. And the fail rate is also only about 10% less than IMGs, right?
Click to expand...

You need to educate yourself on this topic. IMG is not the same as Caribbean grad. Caribbean grad is a form of IMG however, Caribbean grads have it a lot harder than DOs for residency matches.
 
Anastomoses said:
I'm amused by DOs who try to put down IMG schools. It's laughable especially if you look at the passing rates along with the match rates. Plenty of IMGs get more competitive residencies that DOs don't get. And the fail rate is also only about 10% less than IMGs, right?
Click to expand...

Umm IMG != islander. Also you have to keep in mind there are AOA residencies. So a hundred DO's will end up doing ortho (or w/e the number is). Do 100 IMG's match to ortho a year? No. And that's coming from a massively larger pool (like 4-5k DO grads vs 15k+ IMG's).

This thread should probably be deleted since it was started in 1999 and now bumped...
 
Textbookversion said:
Umm IMG != islander. Also you have to keep in mind there are AOA residencies. So a hundred DO's will end up doing ortho (or w/e the number is). Do 100 IMG's match to ortho a year? No. And that's coming from a massively larger pool (like 4-5k DO grads vs 15k+ IMG's).

This thread should probably be deleted since it was started in 1999 and now bumped...
Click to expand...

wow so this thread got necrobumped twice? once in 2004 and then in 2013

lol
 
Vacuous pre-vet troll. There ought to be an automatic block against replying to any post older than 5 years.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Not to condone bumping necro threads, but a lot can be learned from reading fairly old threads. In particular, its interesting to see how views on topics have changed significantly since then while the 'sky is falling' mentality among pre-med/med students hasn't changed much.
 
zezkaiell said:
not to condone bumping necro threads, but a lot can be learned from reading fairly old threads. In particular, its interesting to see how views on topics have changed significantly since then while the 'sky is falling' mentality among pre-med/med students hasn't changed much.
Click to expand...

+1
 
I love how people on forums are either "Gfto and use search function." or "lololol you necroed an old thread"
 
DrZed said:
I love how people on forums are either "Gfto and use search function." or "lololol you necroed an old thread"
Click to expand...

I've noticed this. I'd much rather deal with a necro than a new thread. I will always call a necro thread out though....just so people dont try to argue with a guy who posted 8 years ago lol
 
Darthberghen said:
Vacuous pre-vet troll. There ought to be an automatic block against replying to any post older than 5 years.
Click to expand...

Mkay. I'm not a troll. My phone must have bugged out. Mobile app. My apologies! I tend to stick around the DVM threads, generally.
 
Honestly I would go Caribbean. There is just less confusion over the name MD. I am still a major proponent of changing DO to MDO. The Caribbean residents I work with seem to be happier now that they are embarking with the recognition of MD vs the ones with DO since the letters DO just don't accurately represent us any longer.
 
Osteotastic said:
Honestly I would go Caribbean. There is just less confusion over the name MD. I am still a major proponent of changing DO to MDO. The Caribbean residents I work with seem to be happier now that they are embarking with the recognition of MD vs the ones with DO since the letters DO just don't accurately represent us any longer.
Click to expand...

That is of course if #1 they can match, #2 if they can match higher than family... Carrib is being bumped out of matches each year
 
Yeah I'd rather go DO anyday. Most people who aren't involved with medicine (and don't know what a DO is) usually seem to respond favorably to the idea of osteopathic medicine once it's explained to them. On the other hand, I've noticed that people with little knowledge of how medical training works still seem to hold the notion that Caribbean training = garbage.

I'm not hating...just reporting what I'm seeing.
 
I was in elementary school when this thread was started.
The Monica Lewinsky scandal was still going on when this thread was started.
MTV still had music when this thread was started.
The Mandalay Bay hotel wasn't even opened until after this thread was started.
Columbine was just a regular high school when this thread was started.
Roth IRA's weren't even a thing when this thread was started.
Joe DiMaggio was still around when this thread was started.
The German mark was legal tender when this thread was started.
This thread was probably started by someone running Windows 98 (or 95)
 
Speaking with a plastic surgeon family member (M.D. with an impressive CV) a few days back, the subject of my D.O. education came up. He basically said that for residency purposes, the D.O. is a much better bet than IMG/FMG, BUT also mentioned that after residency the M.D. (assuming he was able to obtain similar training) will generally have less of a problem landing a job in a practice because of the whole D.O. stigma that most definitely still thrives in certain parts of the country, "just because of the letters." BTW he practices in Southern California.
 
Dharma said:
Speaking with a plastic surgeon family member (M.D. with an impressive CV) a few days back, the subject of my D.O. education came up. He basically said that for residency purposes, the D.O. is a much better bet than IMG/FMG, BUT also mentioned that after residency the M.D. (assuming he was able to obtain similar training) will generally have less of a problem landing a job in a practice because of the whole D.O. stigma that most definitely still thrives in certain parts of the country, "just because of the letters." BTW he practices in Southern California.
Click to expand...

If the DO thing bothers you, you can always just buy a diploma from a Caribbean school. Send them like 5k and they'll send you a diploma. The guy that is the dean at the Texas DO school did that, he goes by MD, DO. I think it's pretty funny, must piss off the AOA.
 
Textbookversion said:
If the DO thing bothers you, you can always just buy a diploma from a Caribbean school. Send them like 5k and they'll send you a diploma. The guy that is the dean at the Texas DO school did that, he goes by MD, DO. I think it's pretty funny, must piss off the AOA.
Click to expand...

I've heard rumors of this - is this practice actually legit? I don't believe it.
 
Last edited:
Textbookversion said:
If the DO thing bothers you, you can always just buy a diploma from a Caribbean school. Send them like 5k and they'll send you a diploma. The guy that is the dean at the Texas DO school did that, he goes by MD, DO. I think it's pretty funny, must piss off the AOA.
Click to expand...

Really? Wow.
 
Textbookversion said:
If the DO thing bothers you, you can always just buy a diploma from a Caribbean school. Send them like 5k and they'll send you a diploma. The guy that is the dean at the Texas DO school did that, he goes by MD, DO. I think it's pretty funny, must piss off the AOA.
Click to expand...

I don't blame him one bit. But I also think this often has less to do with whether the letters "bother" someone than the practical reality that in terms of marketing the letters MD are just more valuable than DO.
 
Textbookversion said:
If the DO thing bothers you, you can always just buy a diploma from a Caribbean school. Send them like 5k and they'll send you a diploma. The guy that is the dean at the Texas DO school did that, he goes by MD, DO. I think it's pretty funny, must piss off the AOA.
Click to expand...

I'm not bothered by it personally. I knew the deal going in. It is what it is.
 
DrEnderW said:
I've heard rumors of this - is this practice actually legit? I don't believe it.
Click to expand...

Yes it's legit.

Island students work hard and have huge respect from me for making it to residency if they do. However the reality is that these school are not accredited by anyone legit, they can do whatever they want. Ross was started as a diploma mill by a wall street trader for his coworker's son because the kid couldn't get into a US school.

The "MD" designation is not sacrosanct. The third world is filled with sketchy for profit MD schools.

I think to actually market yourself as an MD in many states you'd have to pass all the USMLE steps and apply for a license in addition to buying a diploma.
 
I wonder what happened to the OP (docjohn) with an overwhelming post count of "2" who started this thread in 1999. I wonder if he ever made it to medical school or residency.

Also, the funny thing is he joined in 1999 and is still listed as a "new member" due to a low post count.
 
Osteotastic said:
Honestly I would go Caribbean. There is just less confusion over the name MD. I am still a major proponent of changing DO to MDO. The Caribbean residents I work with seem to be happier now that they are embarking with the recognition of MD vs the ones with DO since the letters DO just don't accurately represent us any longer.
Click to expand...
Wow this has got to be the first time I've seen a resident side with carrib over D.O.
 
Osteotastic said:
Honestly I would go Caribbean. There is just less confusion over the name MD. I am still a major proponent of changing DO to MDO. The Caribbean residents I work with seem to be happier now that they are embarking with the recognition of MD vs the ones with DO since the letters DO just don't accurately represent us any longer.
Click to expand...

Terrible advice.

Osteotastic said:
I don't blame him one bit. But I also think this often has less to do with whether the letters "bother" someone than the practical reality that in terms of marketing the letters MD are just more valuable than DO.
Click to expand...

Okay I agree.
 
Osteotastic said:
Honestly I would go Caribbean. There is just less confusion over the name MD. I am still a major proponent of changing DO to MDO. The Caribbean residents I work with seem to be happier now that they are embarking with the recognition of MD vs the ones with DO since the letters DO just don't accurately represent us any longer.
Click to expand...

I know it's been said before, but I don't think MDO says 'physician' any more than than DMD does. Any layperson who pays any attention (a small fraction of patients at best) knows that DMD means dentist, so they will assume that MDO means something other than 'physician.'
 
Textbookversion said:
If the DO thing bothers you, you can always just buy a diploma from a Caribbean school. Send them like 5k and they'll send you a diploma. The guy that is the dean at the Texas DO school did that, he goes by MD, DO. I think it's pretty funny, must piss off the AOA.
Click to expand...

His name is Michael Williams, a graduate of TCOM who completed his general surgery residency at Dallas Methodist. He also was a chief anesthesiology resident at Parkland.

Williams has told TCOM students that he considers himself a DO and he's counted as such by the Texas Medical Board (which is headed by a DO and another TCOM graduate). Williams said he basically bought his MD degree from Ross because he felt it might be useful to counter the discriminatory practices at certain hospitals at the time and he wasn't sure where he might end up. This was in the bad old days before the laws were changed.

Incidentally, Williams also holds a master's degree from Harvard and an MBA from Duke. U.S. News named him one of the top medical executives in the U.S.:
http://usnewshospitaloftomorrow.com/press-release-april-4-2013/

Williams is actually the president of UNTHSC. The dean of TCOM is Don Peska, a thoracic/vascular surgeon who got his DO from Des Moines.
 
costales said:
His name is Michael Williams, a graduate of TCOM who completed his general surgery residency at Dallas Methodist. He also was a chief anesthesiology resident at Parkland.

Williams has told TCOM students that he considers himself a DO and he's counted as such by the Texas Medical Board (which is headed by a DO and another TCOM graduate). Williams said he basically bought his MD degree from Ross because he felt it might be useful to counter the discriminatory practices at certain hospitals at the time and he wasn't sure where he might end up. This was in the bad old days before the laws were changed.

Incidentally, Williams also holds a master's degree from Harvard and an MBA from Duke. U.S. News named him one of the top medical executives in the U.S.:
http://usnewshospitaloftomorrow.com/press-release-april-4-2013/

Williams is actually the president of UNTHSC. The dean of TCOM is Don Peska, a thoracic/vascular surgeon who got his DO from Des Moines.
Click to expand...

Interesting. He can say all he wants about it being for the past, there is no reason he still has to walk around with it on his stationary. Truth is the guy must like trolling people.
 
GUH said:
I was in elementary school when this thread was started.
The Monica Lewinsky scandal was still going on when this thread was started.
MTV still had music when this thread was started.
The Mandalay Bay hotel wasn't even opened until after this thread was started.
Columbine was just a regular high school when this thread was started.
Roth IRA's weren't even a thing when this thread was started.
Joe DiMaggio was still around when this thread was started.
The German mark was legal tender when this thread was started.
This thread was probably started by someone running Windows 98 (or 95)
Click to expand...

Best post in this thread. :thumbup:

It's so strange. I wasn't even thinking about being a doctor in 99'.
 
OhHey said:
D.O. if you can.
Click to expand...

Dude's probably a doctor by now.

Anastomoses said:
I'm amused by DOs who try to put down IMG schools. It's laughable especially if you look at the passing rates along with the match rates. Plenty of IMGs get more competitive residencies that DOs don't get. And the fail rate is also only about 10% less than IMGs, right?
Click to expand...

I was someone who actually considered going to SGU, but the reality is that when it comes to residency being an IMG is simply much harder than being a DO. At best, if you take the best possible numbers for SGU's (the best Carib MD school) match rate, its ~73-75%. The DO school that accepted me is in the >90% range (which is about average for US DO schools). That's a pretty big difference. Something like 200 students a year at SGU don't make it to residency.

To be clear, this says nothing about an IMG's quality as a physician. I know many very capable and intelligent Carib graduates that are doing just fine in FM and IM, but they have a much steeper uphill battle than DO graduates. I wouldn't mind going to them, because ultimately, I care what types of physicians they are and who they are more than where they graduated med school.

Sure, DO graduates still struggle to get into competitive ACGME residencies, but its just not simply to the same degree as IMGs. Then you look at fellowships from IM, and the percentage of DOs getting in at almost every subspecialty (except for some reason Rheumatology by a small percentage) is higher than IMGs. On top of that things are getting worse. In 1999, maybe I wouldn't have said that, but having known foreign grads who matched in 2002 and foreign grads with higher stats that failed to match in 2013, I actually see that things are getting worse for them.

GUH said:
I was in elementary school when this thread was started.
The Monica Lewinsky scandal was still going on when this thread was started.
MTV still had music when this thread was started.
The Mandalay Bay hotel wasn't even opened until after this thread was started.
Columbine was just a regular high school when this thread was started.
Roth IRA's weren't even a thing when this thread was started.
Joe DiMaggio was still around when this thread was started.
The German mark was legal tender when this thread was started.
This thread was probably started by someone running Windows 98 (or 95)
Click to expand...

You were in elementary school... man that makes me feel old, I was in high school.

Dharma said:
Speaking with a plastic surgeon family member (M.D. with an impressive CV) a few days back, the subject of my D.O. education came up. He basically said that for residency purposes, the D.O. is a much better bet than IMG/FMG, BUT also mentioned that after residency the M.D. (assuming he was able to obtain similar training) will generally have less of a problem landing a job in a practice because of the whole D.O. stigma that most definitely still thrives in certain parts of the country, "just because of the letters." BTW he practices in Southern California.
Click to expand...

This makes sense and is unfortunate, but its true in some parts of the country. Hopefully it'll change when more DOs head out to practice in those areas.
 
Last edited:
costales said:
His name is Michael Williams, a graduate of TCOM who completed his general surgery residency at Dallas Methodist. He also was a chief anesthesiology resident at Parkland.

Williams has told TCOM students that he considers himself a DO and he's counted as such by the Texas Medical Board (which is headed by a DO and another TCOM graduate). Williams said he basically bought his MD degree from Ross because he felt it might be useful to counter the discriminatory practices at certain hospitals at the time and he wasn't sure where he might end up. This was in the bad old days before the laws were changed.

Incidentally, Williams also holds a master's degree from Harvard and an MBA from Duke. U.S. News named him one of the top medical executives in the U.S.:
http://usnewshospitaloftomorrow.com/press-release-april-4-2013/

Williams is actually the president of UNTHSC. The dean of TCOM is Don Peska, a thoracic/vascular surgeon who got his DO from Des Moines.
Click to expand...

Again, this guy had the right idea. He is business minded. Thats all it comes down to. The market value of MD is higher than DO. MDO would be an improvement, no doubt and a more accurate designation. All you AT Still's out there think about why this is really so offensive to you? Is it because you are scared you won't be proud of your title ? If so grow up and wake up the the market place.
 
If I was a DO and wanted to buy a 3rd world country MD diploma and post it on my white coat as DO, MD

is it still legal to do so?
 
Osteotastic said:
Again, this guy had the right idea. He is business minded. Thats all it comes down to. The market value of MD is higher than DO. MDO would be an improvement, no doubt and a more accurate designation. All you AT Still's out there think about why this is really so offensive to you? Is it because you are scared you won't be proud of your title ? If so grow up and wake up the the market place.
Click to expand...

Don't take the breeze from A.T.'s banner!!! It's flung! ;)
 
OncoMD said:
If I was a DO and wanted to buy a 3rd world country MD diploma and post it on my white coat as DO, MD

is it still legal to do so?
Click to expand...

Its legal... NYCOM has the emigre program where MDs from other countries, who cannot match, will go through medical school here to graduate with a US DO degree and apply as a US grad. Long story short, once they graduate they are officially DO,MD, and can put that on IDs, business cards, whitecoats whatever, They earned both degrees.
 
Osteotastic said:
Again, this guy had the right idea. He is business minded. Thats all it comes down to. The market value of MD is higher than DO. MDO would be an improvement, no doubt and a more accurate designation. All you AT Still's out there think about why this is really so offensive to you? Is it because you are scared you won't be proud of your title ? If so grow up and wake up the the market place.
Click to expand...

A woman rejected you and you went to another woman who agreed to date you. Five years down the road your mind is still on the woman who rejected you. Why?

I think a Doctor of Medicine degree from an Osteopathic College of Medicine would be a great idea. It'd reflect our jobs and not step on the toes of people who went to the LCME schools because the diploma would still be from a College of Osteopathic Medicine.

If the degree can't be changed from DO to MD, then I'd rather it not be changed at all. Where is the marketability in an MDO designation? I am all for profitability BUT you go so far as to advocate going to a Caribbean school instead of a DO school just for the initials. That's just narrow-minded and ignores their chances of obtaining residency altogether. Go ahead and vent but it doesn't change the fact that when you applied to medical school you were admitted to and decided to attend an osteopathic medical school, despite the fact that there were other schools that did in fact offer an MD degree.
 
Textbookversion said:
Yes, and plenty of people do it.
Click to expand...

NYEMMED said:
Its legal... NYCOM has the emigre program where MDs from other countries, who cannot match, will go through medical school here to graduate with a US DO degree and apply as a US grad. Long story short, once they graduate they are officially DO,MD, and can put that on IDs, business cards, whitecoats whatever, They earned both degrees.
Click to expand...


Ok so let's say I'm a DO and I purchase the MD Degree from like a Carib school. How would I approach including that on my C.V. or even job interviews if they ask me how did you manage to pull double medical school and double licensure and you're not an age above 35?
 
OncoMD said:
Ok so let's say I do it. How would I approach including that on my C.V. or even job interviews if they ask me how did you manage to pull double medical school and double licensure and you're not an age above 35?
Click to expand...
You want two licenses and two degrees that accomplish the same thing one license and one degree would accomplish. Sounds legit.
 
DO vs Caribbean? Think of it this way. DO program are just below the average state side MD programs while being almost entirely private and thus way more expensive. We can talk about "quality" of state side MD vs DO all day but I believe if the percentage of DO schools were publicly affiliated and thus charged cheap tuition, the difference would be negligible as students really follow the money trail at the end of the day. If a student with a 32 and 3.7 had to choose between a mid-tier state MD program and a cheap, respectable DO program with equivalent cost of attendance we may not be having the conversations we currently do. I really think the discrimination problem would go away with just having cheaper COA. Just my two cents.
The same will never be true of a Caribbean program. They intrinsically at a disadvantage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

D
1st year D.O. trying to match competitively in IM
Replies
36
Views
4K
TransformerInWestVirginia
T
R
D.O. Students: Research Participation Request!
Replies
3
Views
643
greenmath44
G
N
Funding from Canadian banks for my D.O program in the U.S
Replies
3
Views
702
neytini
N
A
Best D.O school?
Replies
42
Views
16K
formerF1DO
F
A
Choosing between a New D.O. School or an established one, need help asap
Replies
38
Views
6K
8YearsLate
8YearsLate
Top