D.O. or Carribean?

[Trogghunter]

I just picture capt jack sparrow with a treasure chest of usmle prep.

Who teaches their classes, are there base hospitals on the islands? What happens during hurricane season? How do they keep a cadaver lab with the constant blackouts? I know a few grads from the big carrib schools who said that its awful there. I honestly don't know.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[hallowmann]

My arguments are not rooted in emotion.

I'm simply incredulous that a resident DO (ACGME program or not) would speak so vehemently in favor of a degree that doesn't exist and also discourage people from making an obvious decision of favoring a DO admission over a Caribbean MD when the match/attrition statistics are clearly in favor of the former.

Yes, I do agree with you that DOs need to be recognized as doctors trained in modern medicine. No, I do not believe the way to do this is by changing the degree we are granted.

Yes, I am troubled by the fact that some ACGME PD's prefer MD applicants over DO ones despite equal (or lower) stats and that the "strength" of a program, according to some, is measured by how small the percentage of FMG's/DO's is. No, I don't think that this entitles us as DO's to demand that our degree be changed.

I don't think he ever said the best thing to do was go Carib. He mentioned that for him, if he were to do it again, he'd go Carib, just for the sake of marketability post-residency. That's not an unreasonable statement (afterall its an opinion).

Assuming you do match well or moderately as an IMG, I don't doubt that being an "MD" is marketable in more places than being a DO. That being said, like you said DOs do better in the match.

How do we know that MD's are getting residencies over DO's when the average MD board scores are significantly higher and MD's having access to rotations at hospitals associated with their respective MD school? There are just so many confounding factors.

Its demonstrated by the programs that won't even touch DOs, regardless of their stats.

i think it's cute how obsessed DO students seem to be with IMGs. there are plenty of brilliant IMGs who will kick your butt from here to next Sunday. focus on your goal and get the scores to prove you're "as good as MDs".

I think its cute how you're completely missing the point. This thread is about going either DO or Carib MD in a DO forum. Of course the discussion is going to be about DOs and IMGs.

Also, your statement would be all lollipops and sunshine, but the fact that again some programs don't touch DOs or Carib MDs for that matter shows that, even if you have the scores, the degree still affects you. Whether its a meaningful effect or not depends on where you want to go.

I'll also say, that as far as I saw, no one here (recently) said IMGs were stupid, just that its harder for them to match... which is true.

I just picture capt jack sparrow with a treasure chest of usmle prep.

Who teaches their classes, are there base hospitals on the islands? What happens during hurricane season? How do they keep a cadaver lab with the constant blackouts? I know a few grads from the big carrib schools who said that its awful there. I honestly don't know.

If we are talking about the fully accredited ones, MDs usually teach their classes (some are foreign MDs). Some have base hospitals, but most only send their students to US affiliates. Many have protection for hurricanes, and even suspend classes in the event of a catastrophic hurricane. Blackouts strongly depend on the island's infrastructure, which varies from very developed and stable to ... not so much.

 

[JourneyAgent]

I don't think he ever said the best thing to do was go Carib. He mentioned that for him, if he were to do it again, he'd go Carib, just for the sake of marketability post-residency. That's not an unreasonable statement (afterall its an opinion).

Assuming you do match well or moderately as an IMG, I don't doubt that being an "MD" is marketable in more places than being a DO. That being said, like you said DOs do better in the match.







Its demonstrated by the programs that won't even touch DOs, regardless of their stats.




I think its cute how you're completely missing the point. This thread is about going either DO or Carib MD in a DO forum. Of course the discussion is going to be about DOs and IMGs.

Also, your statement would be all lollipops and sunshine, but the fact that again some programs don't touch DOs or Carib MDs for that matter shows that, even if you have the scores, the degree still affects you. Whether its a meaningful effect or not depends on where you want to go.

I'll also say, that as far as I saw, no one here (recently) said IMGs were stupid, just that its harder for them to match... which is true.




If we are talking about the fully accredited ones, MDs usually teach their classes (some are foreign MDs). Some have base hospitals, but most only send their students to US affiliates. Many have protection for hurricanes, and even suspend classes in the event of a catastrophic hurricane. Blackouts strongly depend on the island's infrastructure, which varies from very developed and stable to ... not so much.

The case for going to the Carib for financial reasons is to assume huge amounts of disproportionate risk for debatable and highly speculative gains. That only make sense if your too big too fail and govt bail out is assured.

We are most certainly not too big to fail. But never is that more true than in the factory mills of Caribbean medical schools. Wherein an R selection strategy with regards to offspring is undertaken forcefully.

In the realm of personal rational choice: Carib md over American do school is a fail. Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

You've been warned. You're grown now. Do what you gotta do. (Not you specifically, you generally, like as in premed you all)

 

[JourneyAgent]

It jut occurred to me on the heels of my last thought why I prefer working with and hope for DO colleagues vs Carib grads. Many Carib grads really are too big too fail. Their more often bratty rich American kids, often with overbearing physician parentage shaming them against a do degree. This is instinctive intuitive reasoning. I'm not about to produce data.

But if you're excessively worried about stigma. I for one think of a DO as a likely more down to earth, laid back, maybe with an interesting previous career future colleague. And as a Carib grad as a spoiled American rich kid, that couldnt stop playing video games long enough to study. I don't think I'm alone.

I mean that only to counter that you shouldn't make huge investments based on your fear of stigma by others. And to think that makes sense. Multiple shaky premises at work there.

 

[pattr]

I don't think he ever said the best thing to do was go Carib. He mentioned that for him, if he were to do it again, he'd go Carib, just for the sake of marketability post-residency. That's not an unreasonable statement (afterall its an opinion).

Assuming you do match well or moderately as an IMG, I don't doubt that being an "MD" is marketable in more places than being a DO. That being said, like you said DOs do better in the match.

Honestly I would go Caribbean. There is just less confusion over the name MD. I am still a major proponent of changing DO to MDO. The Caribbean residents I work with seem to be happier now that they are embarking with the recognition of MD vs the ones with DO since the letters DO just don't accurately represent us any longer.

Interpret as you wish. It sure sounds like you're (Osteotastic) advocating going Caribbean over DO based on less confusion. What is your real stance? If a good friend of yours was about to choose St. George/AUC/SABA over PCOM/TCOM/MSU... would you support it?

 

[ClinPathDO]

How about this:

NYU - Internal Medicine

Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

Or this:

Vanderbilt - Internal Medicine

The Department of Medicine has stated that they will not accept any Osteopathic students. The reason for this is that they do not accept these students for residency interviews or residency spots. Therefore, the Department feels it would be a waste of the student's time for them to spend a rotation here. This is a very delicate response that we must give. Because students are unable to rotate in Medicine Rotations, VSAS will block them from even applying.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/registrar/visiting-student-faqs

But to be fair osteopathic residencies do not take MDs either so maybe with the merger in 2015 it will open both DOs to MD residencies previously unobtainable and MDs to DO residencies they wouldn't be eligible for.

 

[pattr]

Where did you find the information about Vandy? I've looked on their website and didn't see that anywhere.

It's right there at the bottom of the link on the medicine program's website:

"I am an Osteopathic Student, why am I unable to apply for a Medicine Rotation?

The Department of Medicine has stated that they will not accept any Osteopathic students. The reason for this is that they do not accept these students for residency interviews or residency spots. Therefore, the Department feels it would be a waste of the student’s time for them to spend a rotation here. This is a very delicate response that we must give. Because students are unable to rotate in Medicine Rotations, VSAS will block them from even applying."

They're talking about applying for elective rotations through VSAS, the visiting student application service which you use for fourth year. Vanderbilt Internal Medicine doesn't accept DO students for rotations nor for residency. Other departments, peds, anesthesia, etc., at Vanderbilt do accept DO students for rotations though.

 

[Dharma]

Play nice children...

 

[DrMaximus]

It's right there at the bottom of the link on the medicine program's website:

"I am an Osteopathic Student, why am I unable to apply for a Medicine Rotation?

The Department of Medicine has stated that they will not accept any Osteopathic students. The reason for this is that they do not accept these students for residency interviews or residency spots. Therefore, the Department feels it would be a waste of the student’s time for them to spend a rotation here. This is a very delicate response that we must give. Because students are unable to rotate in Medicine Rotations, VSAS will block them from even applying."

They're talking about applying for elective rotations through VSAS, the visiting student application service which you use for fourth year. Vanderbilt Internal Medicine doesn't accept DO students for rotations nor for residency. Other departments, peds, anesthesia, etc., at Vanderbilt do accept DO students for rotations though.

Good God, I'm blind...

Thanks for that. Guess it's a good thing I'm shooting for anesthesia, then. I've seen been hanging out with some of the residents who are DOs here and got confused when that came up. I wonder why only internal is that way?

 

[hallowmann]

The case for going to the Carib for financial reasons is to assume huge amounts of disproportionate risk for debatable and highly speculative gains. That only make sense if your too big too fail and govt bail out is assured.

We are most certainly not too big to fail. But never is that more true than in the factory mills of Caribbean medical schools. Wherein an R selection strategy with regards to offspring is undertaken forcefully.

In the realm of personal rational choice: Carib md over American do school is a fail. Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

You've been warned. You're grown now. Do what you gotta do. (Not you specifically, you generally, like as in premed you all)

I'm actually attending a DO school in a month, after turning down a SGU acceptance.

I've repeatedly advised people to go DO over Carib MD, for the exact reason that I mentioned in the post you quoted: DOs have a better shot at a residency they want than IMGs.

That being said, it still doesn't change the fact that at just face value an "MD" is more well known and marketable than a "DO". Personally, I don't care that much, that's not why I'm going into this profession. That doesn't make it any less true. Sure in some areas DO and MD are equally well known, but in some areas with less of a DO history/presence, that's just not the case.

It jut occurred to me on the heels of my last thought why I prefer working with and hope for DO colleagues vs Carib grads. Many Carib grads really are too big too fail. Their more often bratty rich American kids, often with overbearing physician parentage shaming them against a do degree. This is instinctive intuitive reasoning. I'm not about to produce data.

But if you're excessively worried about stigma. I for one think of a DO as a likely more down to earth, laid back, maybe with an interesting previous career future colleague. And as a Carib grad as a spoiled American rich kid, that couldnt stop playing video games long enough to study. I don't think I'm alone.

I mean that only to counter that you shouldn't make huge investments based on your fear of stigma by others. And to think that makes sense. Multiple shaky premises at work there.

You seem to be jumping around a bit.

Chances are, you will find an equal (if not greater) number of "spoiled American rich kids" with overbearing parents (as you put it) at DO schools as you would in the Caribbean or MD schools for that matter. That is just the profession. Most future docs are children of docs, and the majority are strikingly white, east asian, or south asian. Whether that's a good or bad thing is anyone's guess, but you're not talking about something exclusive to IMGs, DOs, or MDs, but rather medicine in general.

But to be fair osteopathic residencies do not take MDs either so maybe with the merger in 2015 it will open both DOs to MD residencies previously unobtainable and MDs to DO residencies they wouldn't be eligible for.

I'm a little curious how this will work out if it actually goes through. I'm guessing there would have to be some DO bias at the traditionally AOA residencies, but that could be enacted by virtue of having an OMM requirement (which could then be attained by US or Carib MDs who are truly interested in osteopathy). It wouldn't make sense to not accept MDs, because DOs have been fighting for some time to be on equal (or close) footing with MDs with regards to ACGME residencies and fellowship. This though may be a good thing. It may eliminate a lot of the residual "DO stigma" and it takes care of the whole ACGME fellowships issue.

 

[darklabel]

There are some caveats and MDs want this to happen for only one reason: more competitive residencies available such as Ortho.

I don't see how this benefits DOs because a merger won't get rid of bias in existing programs and may force some DO programs to accept MDs to show "equalness", thus loosing seats that would've gone to a DO.

 

[hallowmann]

There are some caveats and MDs want this to happen for only one reason: more competitive residencies available such as Ortho.

I don't see how this benefits DOs because a merger won't get rid of bias in existing programs and may force some DO programs to accept MDs to show "equalness", thus loosing seats that would've gone to a DO.

The main benefits for DOs are (1) the ability to apply to all residencies at once through one match, as opposed to having to pick one or the other as they don't occur at the same time so the only way you can apply to both now is if your top choice is an AOA residency and you could use ACGME as a backup, and (2) the ability to apply to an ACGME fellowship after completing an AOA residency. With the current system and recent ACGME ruling (unless something changed lately), ~55% of DOs graduating each year (the amount that attend AOA residencies) would be barred from attending ACGME fellowships, significantly decreasing the number that could subspecialize if they wanted to. That places a lot of restrictions on DOs that they don't have on them now.

As far as "equalness" goes, they could easily include an OMM requirement, which would probably significantly limit the MDs that apply and are able to attend AOA residencies.

 

[ClinPathDO]

There are some caveats and MDs want this to happen for only one reason: more competitive residencies available such as Ortho.

I don't see how this benefits DOs because a merger won't get rid of bias in existing programs and may force some DO programs to accept MDs to show "equalness", thus loosing seats that would've gone to a DO.

If DO residencies have to accept MDs for "equalness" im sure MD programs that state they don't accept DOs will have to change their policy. Im sure their will be bias towards MD applicants for these competitive DO residencies in the beginning anyways but hopefully in the future it will come down to the most qualified applicant being selected for both.

 

[Trogghunter]

Its funny to me that the Caribbean spoiled kid thing was mentioned because my first encounter with a caribb grad was an intern who was bragging about how he hurt himself waterskiing and openly admitted to doing drugs in school.... and that his parents secured his residency spot. Just saying, it's funny. Nothing else.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Yeah that's how I meant it too. An irrational bias countering an irrational bias. Like Christians and Muslims being atheists with respect to each other.

I think a merger would be good for everyone. LCME protection would be good for DO students. Smart growth with a requirement for established clinical rations with affiliated or sponsored hospitals would be better.

My personal motive is for more American docs in the field. I've worked with enough foreign docs to know they lack certain cultural skill and some do not subscribe to American cultural identity. And if your seeing American patients that's a problem in my view.

It takes premed imagination to ascribe motives of ortho applicants being pertinent to any such change. For better or worse most American MD students have vague notions of what a DO even is. Even if they were supervised by one without knowing it. You guys pretty much blend invisibly into all fields of medicine. I've had DO physician supervisors who were kind of surprised I asked them about their education when I was a premed. Because it took curiosity, foreknowledge, and interested observation to even recognize their tiny letters after their name tag.

 

[hallowmann]

Yeah that's how I meant it too. An irrational bias countering an irrational bias. Like Christians and Muslims being atheists with respect to each other.

I think a merger would be good for everyone. LCME protection would be good for DO students. Smart growth with a requirement for established clinical rations with affiliated or sponsored hospitals would be better.

My personal motive is for more American docs in the field. I've worked with enough foreign docs to know they lack certain cultural skill and some do not subscribe to American cultural identity. And if your seeing American patients that's a problem in my view...

I'm sure this statement varies significantly depending on who you're dealing with. I've also worked with a fair number of foreign docs, and their skill or excellent bedside manner actually surprised me. I do believe a study had been floating around that actually indicated that resident FMGs actually had a greater mean patient rating with regards to bedside manner than Carib IMG and US MD residents. This most likely has to do with the fact that most FMGs coming to this country are top of their class or at the very least have much more training (in terms of actual time working as a physician) than a recent US graduate.

Anyways, I think US schools have been getting the message, and now you see a lot of new DO and MD schools adjusting their curriculum to better address patient care and to emphasize more interaction with patients earlier in the curriculum.

this is simply because there are more "quality" DOs than IMGs. It's not because the actual schools are somehow superior. sure, if you're talking broad averages...you're absolutely correct. I honestly don't see why this plagues either group...be an amazing applicant and you'll get your needs met. If you wish instead you could be a lazy US allo MD so you can skate into a good residency...well, that's the kind of person who probably shouldn't. If DOs would start outshining MDs, don't you suppose a shift would occur? Maybe DO distinguishes the level of school someone got into? get your schools to produce brilliant doctors instead of worrying about the inferiority of IMGs?

I'm not sure what the quality of the schools has to do with this equation. I guess the problem comes in when you have an average student. The bottom line is that it is easier for DO with average or slightly below average stats to attain a preferred residency than an IMG with the same stats. Sure the rockstar IMGs and DOs will all match well, but when it comes down to it, between a middle of the road DO with average FM stats and an middle of the road IMG with the same numbers, the DO has a better shot, at very least by virtue of there being AOA residencies.

 

[Bones DO]

I'm not sure how a market analysis of the degrees translates into an effective basis for deciding to go off shore vs a DO school. That's just common sense in terms of investment. Let's see should I give my 200k or more to this DO school down the road or this sheistery guy blowing through town with brochures on how awesome studying on the beach is.

The fact that is a serious question that requires debate in the era of the Internet, means to me, that that person is not all there, for whatever reason, and is therefore not worth convincing.

^^ thread ending

 

[JourneyAgent]

I'm sure this statement varies significantly depending on who you're dealing with. I've also worked with a fair number of foreign docs, and their skill or excellent bedside manner actually surprised me. I do believe a study had been floating around that actually indicated that resident FMGs actually had a greater mean patient rating with regards to bedside manner than Carib IMG and US MD residents. This most likely has to do with the fact that most FMGs coming to this country are top of their class or at the very least have much more training (in terms of actual time working as a physician) than a recent US graduate.

Anyways, I think US schools have been getting the message, and now you see a lot of new DO and MD schools adjusting their curriculum to better address patient care and to emphasize more interaction with patients earlier in the curriculum.



I'm not sure what the quality of the schools has to do with this equation. I guess the problem comes in when you have an average student. The bottom line is that it is easier for DO with average or slightly below average stats to attain a preferred residency than an IMG with the same stats. Sure the rockstar IMGs and DOs will all match well, but when it comes down to it, between a middle of the road DO with average FM stats and an middle of the road IMG with the same numbers, the DO has a better shot, at very least by virtue of there being AOA residencies.

That's possible. I'd have to see the study. There's a lot of nuance. I don't relate well to the fmg's from extremely religious countries that are in large supply in my area. They fail my ethics markers of civilized western society in relation to the rights of women and gays. And of course for their lack of taste in sex, drugs, rock n roll, comedy, and everything else that makes being an american worthwhile. It's a pretty rigorous system I have. Sue me, if that ruffles anyone's PC feathers.

That's what I'll be looking out for on the interview trail. My specialty is pretty non-competitve and can acquire a nepotism sink of one particular foreign ethnic group or another under certain circumstances.

I want my American melting pot of variety for colleagues to be working with for long hours.

DO's cool. All the names are foreign, all of the same variety, nope, I'll go elsewhere.

 

[hallowmann]

That's possible. I'd have to see the study. There's a lot of nuance. I don't relate well to the fmg's from extremely religious countries that are in large supply in my area. They fail my ethics markers of civilized western society in relation to the rights of women and gays. And of course for their lack of taste in sex, drugs, rock n roll, comedy, and everything else that makes being an american worthwhile. It's a pretty rigorous system I have. Sue me, if that ruffles anyone's PC feathers.

That's what I'll be looking out for on the interview trail. My specialty is pretty non-competitve and can acquire a nepotism sink of one particular foreign ethnic group or another under certain circumstances.

I want my American melting pot of variety for colleagues to be working with for long hours.

DO's cool. All the names are foreign, all of the same variety, nope, I'll go elsewhere.

For your emphasis on equality and American values, you take a pretty prejudicial stance with regards to those Americans that you don't view as representing real Americans (whatever that means). Many of those names that sound "foreign" could very well belong to 3rd generation Americans.

Your preference is your preference. You can and will choose the place you work based on whatever you want, and obviously that's perfectly fine. I just hope in the future, when you are in a position of power, you will treat people under you based on their merit and skill as opposed to their religious/cultural views or country of origin.

Good luck on the residency hunt. I hope you end up wherever is best for you.

 

[group_theory]

As others have noted, please be nice and stay on topic - which is the value of going to a US DO school versus a Caribbean School.

 

[Osteotastic]

Interpret as you wish. It sure sounds like you're (Osteotastic) advocating going Caribbean over DO based on less confusion. What is your real stance? If a good friend of yours was about to choose St. George/AUC/SABA over PCOM/TCOM/MSU... would you support it?

So I think that this is situation dependent. If you are academically the $h!t and you know it it you just screwed off too much in college or took your time warming up, it wont matter whether you go Caribbean or Osteo, if you are know you are good and you are committed to nailing it in med school, putting in the work at home (where I agree most of the learning is done in med school the first two years ) and doing well on the boards then you'll get a residency spot whichever place you go. Though onshore DO has a statistical edge here, again if you're good and willing to put in a lot of hard work you'll get a spot either way.

The hitch really comes down to loan payback . There is the significant difference of course with loan payback options such as IBR. I have decided I am going to knock out my loans in the first 10 years so in the end it will probably not make a difference for me though I do have the option of paying minimum fee based on salary and writing the rest off in 25 years or 10 years if I do public service. Just don't forget that what you write off is considered a "gift" by the gov so you have to pay a huge tax bill on all that is written off.

As I had alluded to earlier, in more desirable places to live that are not areas of need, the letters MD (from Caribbean or otherwise) give you an edge (after residency) and is still the gold standard and more respected than letters DO but this edge in most cases does not mean a closed door and can be compensated for by generally being a very good Physician. Also, you are set on writing a book or private practice Caribbean is probably better since the MD will serve you here.
On balance I am not unhappy I went the DO route but I am not at all ashamed to say that I would like either an MD or an M in my degree such as MDO for practical reasons and to signify that I am indeed a medical doctor. Hope that answers some questions.

Remember to enjoy your lives and the process no matter what you all choose.

 

[nycpm2016]

You could just apply to Podiatry schools. The field of Podiatry offers the prestige of being a doctor and you can have a balanced life.
https://portal.aacpmas.org/

 

[JGimpel]

Carribean MD
Sketchy admission criterion, but at least you got in somewhere, right?
Class sizes so large that you rarely get to know the professor
Possible upcoming shenanigans with how one would get a loan for school there
Foreign MDs are indeed held to a higher standard to get admitted to competitive programs since they're thought to have received a lower grade of attention. You'll have to blow everyone else out of the water to get a shot.
Most of your rotations in crummy parts of the North East US that I wouldn't wish on anyone, not to mention the weather there.
If there was a good chance of a FMG going into primary care, it's almost certain now, the way that the even mildly competitive programs are picking US grads over them for their slots.
I could go on.
Check St. George's total cost of going to school there; YIKES!
http://www.sgu.edu/financial-services/som-tuition.html

DO
Steadily increasing class size, but it hasn't gone over 300 (yet)
You get a diploma, then a training license, then a full unrestricted medical license to practice medicine with the US Schools, there's paperwork, but nowhere near the amount of hoops you have to jump through as an FMG.
You definitely are on at least the same pay scale as your peers and can get more if you prove you can actually bill for OMM.
You could argue that many DO hospitals are in crummy areas too, in the mid-west more than anywhere else, but at least you have a choice.
Presently, and probably for a few more years while the AOA pulls their heads from the ground, a DO has residencies available to him that the MDs can't apply to, so you have a better chance at competitive slots you actually have a chance at getting.
There are a lot of very expensive DO schools out there. You're debt may be higher than some of your MD counterparts, but there are too many variables to actually say which one is more expensive overall.

When I chose my PCP, I chose the one closest to work, so I could get out and back in quickly on days when I had an appointment. It's almost like running out to a Post Office during your work day because of the convenience of having one right next to you that is open. Patients have the same plan with their doctors. IF they've got a full medical license and can prescribe what they need, that's good enough for most people.

 

[hallowmann]

...Check St. George's total cost of going to school there; YIKES!
http://www.sgu.edu/financial-services/som-tuition.html

DO
Steadily increasing class size, but it hasn't gone over 300 (yet)...

To address a few things you mentioned:

SGU is an exception with regards to tuition at carib MD schools. The rest are all cheaper (cheaper than most DO schools), and getting federal loans for SGU, Ross, and AUC is just as easy as getting it at any medical school. That said, the tuition at SGU is double what I'm planning to pay for med school, so the idea of someone taking out loans to go to SGU makes me want to throw up. I'm glad that's not me.

As far as DO class sizes, actually at least 3 are above 300 now (LECOM - 384, MSU-COM - 321, and NYCOM - 324), and many are close. Granted though, both LECOM and MSU-COM are spread over different campuses, but LECOM still has ~280 at one campus. Check out here, based on last year's entering class numbers: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=14248742&postcount=8

Everything else I agree with. US DO > IMG.

 

[asuka99]

i didnt read the entire post b/c it's probably a ton of IMG bashing and then some ppl from the caribb defending thsmelves and ****

but w/e

soon to be 4th year img here (sgu)

go for DO if given the choice between caribb and do

the days of caribbean md are at their zenith

soon they will be outmuscled in the match by do's with the upcoming merge (imo)

you have to significantly outperform your us counterparts to match in any given specialties, and even then some specialties are damn near unattainable
-derm
-ent
-ortho
-optho
-rad onc
-plastics
-neuro surg
etc etc

are they hard for do to match into also? yes, but still easier than if caribb. if youre hung up about the 2 letters at the end of your name, get over it. it doesnt mean ****. a do is an md with more techniques imo and they should not be looked down upon.

$$$ wise much cheaper to stay in the states.

to be honest i wouldnt even tell anyone to go to med school to begin with. it's not fun at all and neither is medicine really, haha

 

[Trogghunter]

The msucom base hospital system has over 1.5 residency spots for each graduate from MSU and has residencies in the ROADS optho ent specialties. I am pretty sure that they can hold a class of 400 easily given that they have 3 sites, a new main site underway, like 15 base hospitals that are all 250 bed minimum to 500+, and over 50 total affiliated centers just in the state of MI. Some of which are shared base hospitals with the MD program at msu. I don't think that most, if any, schools have that network. Msu also has multiple VA hospital rotations for psych and multiple orthopedic hospitals. I'd give that school a look.

 

[user3]

The msucom base hospital system has over 1.5 residency spots for each graduate from MSU and has residencies in the ROADS optho ent specialties. I am pretty sure that they can hold a class of 400 easily given that they have 3 sites, a new main site underway, like 15 base hospitals that are all 250 bed minimum to 500+, and over 50 total affiliated centers just in the state of MI. Some of which are shared base hospitals with the MD program at msu. I don't think that most, if any, schools have that network. Msu also has multiple VA hospital rotations for psych and multiple orthopedic hospitals. I'd give that school a look.

too bad the school is unrealistic for OOS to attend.