D.O. or Carribean?

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thepoopologist said:
A woman rejected you and you went to another woman who agreed to date you. Five years down the road your mind is still on the woman who rejected you. Why?

I think a Doctor of Medicine degree from an Osteopathic College of Medicine would be a great idea. It'd reflect our jobs and not step on the toes of people who went to the LCME schools because the diploma would still be from a College of Osteopathic Medicine.

If the degree can't be changed from DO to MD, then I'd rather it not be changed at all. Where is the marketability in an MDO designation? I am all for profitability BUT you go so far as to advocate going to a Caribbean school instead of a DO school just for the initials. That's just narrow-minded and ignores their chances of obtaining residency altogether. Go ahead and vent but it doesn't change the fact that when you applied to medical school you were admitted to and decided to attend an osteopathic medical school, despite the fact that there were other schools that did in fact offer an MD degree.
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Simple answer. MDO says we are medical doctors and MD, DO is not going to happen from Osteopathic schools as they are two degrees. Medical doctors says legit and represents what we actually are. Translation = higher market value. Oh and you can make ego and dating analogies all day but if you make such comparisons, it is you who makes these associations and thus to whom such things must matter friend, not to me.
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Osteotastic said:
Simple answer. MDO says we are medical doctors and MD, DO is not going to happen from Osteopathic schools as they are two degrees. Medical doctors says legit and represents what we actually are. Translation = higher market value. Oh and you can make ego and dating analogies all day but if you make such comparisons, it is you who makes these associations and thus to whom such things must matter friend, not to me.
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What a well written argument. You win, my friend.
 
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I hear that IMGs are severely limited when it comes to moonlighting.. A DO I work with told me that's why he went DO and it made a huge difference to his income during his residency years.
 
OP of this thread was probably still on dial up when this thread was made!
 
How do you "buy" an MD diploma from the Caribbean or a 3rd world country? How is it legit if you don't go and study there physically? (Please forgive my ignorance, just never heard about this before)
 
It's still totally legitimate. The problem is that it makes matching a lot harder.

In 2004, I might have chosen Caribbean. But now we're facing a residency crunch, and I think that DO is the smart choice.
 
acceptmeplease said:
I hear that IMGs are severely limited when it comes to moonlighting.. A DO I work with told me that's why he went DO and it made a huge difference to his income during his residency years.
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Moonlighting also has to do with your residency program allowing it...
 
NYEMMED said:
Moonlighting also has to do with your residency program allowing it...
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but moonlighting is beyond the allowance of the Visa itself isn't it? That only provides rights within the specific residency sites right?
 
doctorold said:
How do you "buy" an MD diploma from the Caribbean or a 3rd world country? How is it legit if you don't go and study there physically? (Please forgive my ignorance, just never heard about this before)
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I would like to find this out too....how beneficial is it for a DO to buy an MD diploma.
 
Mosonik said:
but moonlighting is beyond the allowance of the Visa itself isn't it? That only provides rights within the specific residency sites right?
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Yes if they were referring to a resident that needs a visa. A US born who went to school in the Caribbean is another story.

There are many issues for IMGs to moonlight.
1) as you said J-1 visa will not allow moonlighting (for those using a visa)
2) state laws- Most states will not allow a IMG to be licensed until 2-3 years into residency. Unlike US grads, where you are licensed after 1 year (intern year) No license, NO moonlighting.
3) Program Rules- Each program may or may not allow for it
4) Bell Commission- All moonlighting counts towards the hours/ rules that need to be followed, Violating this is costly.
 
doctorold said:
How do you "buy" an MD diploma from the Caribbean or a 3rd world country? How is it legit if you don't go and study there physically? (Please forgive my ignorance, just never heard about this before)
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One of my classmates once told me that apparently you can earn a 'distance MD' from many of the major British colleges - but this is only because the MD degree is a research (not professional) degree in that country. So apparently it's possible to earn an 'MD(Res)' from those colleges as an American just essentially by taking online courses and doing online work. My friend still jokes that maybe he should do that.

Not sure how it works with the Caribbean.
 
OncoMD said:
I would like to find this out too....how beneficial is it for a DO to buy an MD diploma.
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Totally beneficial. In fact, if you want an MD - I offer a unique opportunity that is only available as long as the demand is there. Send me your CV, resume, and LORs from people who know you, and I will evaluate you for course credits. Right now, it is only $400/credit. Once I determine how much credit you get for life experience, you may qualify for a genuine Doctor of Medicine diploma from an unaccredited college of medicine stationed in a 3rd world unstable democracy/dictatorship (status depends on the year and election results). The MD degree will be fully validated by the Lexmark Printer and the fully licensed authorized copy of MS Word and Adobe that was used to validate said diploma.

Think of all the possibilities once you have this MD diploma. You can frame it as a conversation piece. You can use it to impress your friends and family (be sure to hide it when people with medical background are around to avoid any suspicion or awkward questioning). Having this diploma will also grant you access to the exclusive allopathic forum on SDN, where you can tell current MD students the trials and tribulations that you had to endure to gain this valuable diploma. Plus if there is a zombie attack, you can use this diploma as a sanitation device to properly decontaminate yourself of E. coli and other gut flora that accidentally escaped from your bowels.

TL : DR - buying an MD diploma from an unaccredited unregulated 3rd world medical school have as much value and worth as having a 8 year old kid print one for a homework assignment on how to use MS Word.
 
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dozitgetchahi said:
One of my classmates once told me that apparently you can earn a 'distance MD' from many of the major British colleges - but this is only because the MD degree is a research (not professional) degree in that country. So apparently it's possible to earn an 'MD(Res)' from those colleges as an American just essentially by taking online courses and doing online work. My friend still jokes that maybe he should do that.

Not sure how it works with the Caribbean.
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Not online. The Doctor of Medicine degree in the British Commonwealth is a postprofessional research degree (similar to a JSD that one gets after a JD). It requires coursework (that may be available online), but there is also a research component and dissertation. Plus it is a "research qualification" and will have absolutely nothing to do with licensure or credentialing.

Plus in many states, written in their statues and rules/regulation of health professionals, on who gets to be called doctors, MD, physicians, DOs, etc. Some state specifically require you to identify yourself as a DO or osteopathic physician. Other states only allow MDs who are licensed through the board of medicine to call themselves MDs to the public.
 
group_theory said:
Totally beneficial. In fact, if you want an MD - I offer a unique opportunity that is only available as long as the demand is there. Send me your CV, resume, and LORs from people who know you, and I will evaluate you for course credits. Right now, it is only $400/credit. Once I determine how much credit you get for life experience, you may qualify for a genuine Doctor of Medicine diploma from an unaccredited college of medicine stationed in a 3rd world unstable democracy/dictatorship (status depends on the year and election results). The MD degree will be fully validated by the Lexmark Printer and the fully licensed authorized copy of MS Word and Adobe that was used to validate said diploma.

Think of all the possibilities once you have this MD diploma. You can frame it as a conversation piece. You can use it to impress your friends and family (be sure to hide it when people with medical background are around to avoid any suspicion or awkward questioning). Having this diploma will also grant you access to the exclusive allopathic forum on SDN, where you can tell current MD students the trials and tribulations that you had to endure to gain this valuable diploma. Plus if there is a zombie attack, you can use this diploma as a sanitation device to properly decontaminate yourself of E. coli and other gut flora that accidentally escaped from your bowels.

TL : DR - buying an MD diploma from an unaccredited unregulated 3rd world medical school have as much value and worth as having a 8 year old kid print one for a homework assignment on how to use MS Word.
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You fail to amuse me or even manage to have me crack a second of a laugh. If you're gonna make a joke, at least be more talented at it. :thumbdown:
 
group_theory said:
Totally beneficial. In fact, if you want an MD - I offer a unique opportunity that is only available as long as the demand is there. Send me your CV, resume, and LORs from people who know you, and I will evaluate you for course credits. Right now, it is only $400/credit. Once I determine how much credit you get for life experience, you may qualify for a genuine Doctor of Medicine diploma from an unaccredited college of medicine stationed in a 3rd world unstable democracy/dictatorship (status depends on the year and election results). The MD degree will be fully validated by the Lexmark Printer and the fully licensed authorized copy of MS Word and Adobe that was used to validate said diploma.

Think of all the possibilities once you have this MD diploma. You can frame it as a conversation piece. You can use it to impress your friends and family (be sure to hide it when people with medical background are around to avoid any suspicion or awkward questioning). Having this diploma will also grant you access to the exclusive allopathic forum on SDN, where you can tell current MD students the trials and tribulations that you had to endure to gain this valuable diploma. Plus if there is a zombie attack, you can use this diploma as a sanitation device to properly decontaminate yourself of E. coli and other gut flora that accidentally escaped from your bowels.

TL : DR - buying an MD diploma from an unaccredited unregulated 3rd world medical school have as much value and worth as having a 8 year old kid print one for a homework assignment on how to use MS Word.
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Agree with OncoMD. Defensiveness and humor don't mix well.

Watch Children's Hospital on Adult Swim. So funny it makes you cry. Comic talent can be influenced by watching such masters. Then try again : )
 
Osteotastic said:
Agree with OncMD.

Watch Children's Hospital on Adult Swim. So funny it makes you cry. Comic talent can be influenced by watching the masters. Then try again : )
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It's like the MCAT...you first read content, and then you set out to practice...not the other way around lol

What's Children's Hospital about?
 
OncoMD said:
It's like the MCAT...you first read content, and then you set out to practice...not the other way around lol

What's Children's Hospital about?
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I don't want to get too far off topic from the offshore MD vs DO vs DO plus getting an offshore MD topic but it's comedy show about a children's hospital apparently in Brazil which you would never know but they just happen to say that they are in Brazil. Its on Netflix (there's actually a thread up about it now) and its a great show to watch while contemplating such weighty topics as the pros and cons of offshore MD vs DO vs getting both (see I didn't go off topic).
 
group_theory said:
Not online. The Doctor of Medicine degree in the British Commonwealth is a postprofessional research degree (similar to a JSD that one gets after a JD). It requires coursework (that may be available online), but there is also a research component and dissertation. Plus it is a "research qualification" and will have absolutely nothing to do with licensure or credentialing.

Plus in many states, written in their statues and rules/regulation of health professionals, on who gets to be called doctors, MD, physicians, DOs, etc. Some state specifically require you to identify yourself as a DO or osteopathic physician. Other states only allow MDs who are licensed through the board of medicine to call themselves MDs to the public.
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So in some states DOs have to add the modifier 'Osteopathic' whenever thy refer to themselves as a physician? Daaaaaaang it. Looks like I'll be withdrawing my acceptance...



(Not srs)
 
In regards to the DO with Caribbean MD argument, in general, I think it's pretty useless unless you're using it to impress friends and family as group_theory mentioned. Chances are that patients biased against DOs would not be much happier with someone with an MD from the Caribbean.

I came to know of an interesting story and thought I'd share it.

Basically, this person graduated from a DO school and matched into an ACGME residency. I don't know the details, but the records list his graduation from a Caribbean MD school and completion of residency as being in the same year and his fellowship being immediately after. He is licensed in a state where the medical board lists MDs as "Medical Doctors" and DOs as "Osteopathic Physician" in the "profession" field. His current license lists him as a "Medical Doctor".

I doubt something similar can be pulled off now though. Don't know if it ended up being of any benefit to him in the long run. But I guess he's happy.
 
Osteotastic said:
Agree with OncoMD. Defensiveness and humor don't mix well.

Watch Children's Hospital on Adult Swim. So funny it makes you cry. Comic talent can be influenced by watching such masters. Then try again : )
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Just started watching children's hospital because of this thread. I must admit its a pretty funny show.
 
whatbout2morrow said:
In regards to the DO with Caribbean MD argument, in general, I think it's pretty useless unless you're using it to impress friends and family as group_theory mentioned. Chances are that patients biased against DOs would not be much happier with someone with an MD from the Caribbean.

I came to know of an interesting story and thought I'd share it.

Basically, this person graduated from a DO school and matched into an ACGME residency. I don't know the details, but the records list his graduation from a Caribbean MD school and completion of residency as being in the same year and his fellowship being immediately after. He is licensed in a state where the medical board lists MDs as "Medical Doctors" and DOs as "Osteopathic Physician" in the "profession" field. His current license lists him as a "Medical Doctor".

I doubt something similar can be pulled off now though. Don't know if it ended up being of any benefit to him in the long run. But I guess he's happy.
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Its funny to me that people keep going to approval of family, dating analogies and ego in general when arguing this subject. All of that is really silly to spend time on. Its a question of market value. Its not a good or bad thing. It just is a thing and sticking your head in the sand does not help.


From threat about getting a job with a DO:

You will be able to find a job.

The truth is that the more desirable places to live tend to be the places that have more bias and favor the gold standard that all are familiar with - MD. That said you can get jobs in these places and if you are a better candidate they will probably take you but in these areas yes the DO does not work for you. In areas of need you will be sought after and offered all kinds of bonuses and incentives.

You will always have a job. If you want to be a leader in the medical field have private practice or write books the DO title again does not work for you - unless you are in an area of need or a place in the midwest where they really like DOs and most people don't want to live - but it is not to say this cannot be done.

I have a DO degree and I have succeeded in residency and will in my career no doubt but I may consider adding a MD from offshore just for business purposes if the title is not eventually changed to MDO.

Either way I will succeed however because the truth is with or without these, I'm just plain awesome and that's just a fact
 
Osteotastic said:
...Its a question of market value. Its not a good or bad thing. It just is a thing and sticking your head in the sand does not help.


From threat about getting a job with a DO:

You will be able to find a job.

The truth is that the more desirable places to live tend to be the places that have more bias and favor the gold standard that all are familiar with - MD. That said you can get jobs in these places and if you are a better candidate they will probably take you but in these areas yes the DO does not work for you. In areas of need you will be sought after and offered all kinds of bonuses and incentives.

You will always have a job. If you want to be a leader in the medical field have private practice or write books the DO title again does not work for you - unless you are in an area of need or a place in the midwest where they really like DOs and most people don't want to live - but it is not to say this cannot be done.

I have a DO degree and I have succeeded in residency and will in my career no doubt but I may consider adding a MD from offshore just for business purposes if the title is not eventually changed to MDO....
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My comments were specifically in relation to DO + Carib MD.

If a DO were to obtain an MD from an offshore school without actually going to the islands for medical school, it would most probably be from a diploma mill. I doubt that SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba, etc do that kind of stuff anymore (if they did it at any point at all).

I would imagine that the perceived increase in market value that a DO would get by obtaining an MD from a diploma mill would significantly decrease, if not disappear altogether, the second that someone (be it a potential employer or patient) Googles the name of the school and learns that it is a diploma mill. Haven't been there or done that, so I can't say for sure.
 
At many hospitals (ie. Kaiser) DOs just put MDs after their name instead and it seems to be legal. So there is no need to pay $5k when you can do it for free.
 
whatbout2morrow said:
My comments were specifically in relation to DO + Carib MD.

If a DO were to obtain an MD from an offshore school without actually going to the islands for medical school, it would most probably be from a diploma mill. I doubt that SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba, etc do that kind of stuff anymore (if they did it at any point at all).

I would imagine that the perceived increase in market value that a DO would get by obtaining an MD from a diploma mill would significantly decrease, if not disappear altogether, the second that someone (be it a potential employer or patient) Googles the name of the school and learns that it is a diploma mill. Haven't been there or done that, so I can't say for sure.
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This is actually a common misunderstanding. That hiring bodies really care where you went to school. With few exceptions they don't - unless we are talking about academic medicine or Ivory tower places. They are, when it is all said and done businesses too. When it comes down to it they rely on patient satisfaction and ratings and they know that most patients have no clue that Caribbean school means lower quality and that the patients very rarely even look to see where the doctor went but they do see the letters on your coat and this does have a subconscious impact on whether they view you as legit or not. Again the gold standard for real deal doctor is the MD. It is ubiquitous. It just is. Again this is not good or bad and nothing to do with ego... it just is and that translates into market value of those two simple letters.
 
Thats actually SUPER illegal. To legally represent yourself on a white coat as an MD, you need to have a Doctorate of Medicine. Although the parallels are too numerous to count, the degrees REMAIN separate and whoever is a DO putting MD after their name can be in SERIOUS trouble if found out. Most people get by this nuance by putting Dr. BEFORE their name but MD afterwards is literally as legal as an RN putting MD instead of RN.

There is a true case about a DDS(Dentist). He went to the carib for med school, passed all his boards, got his ECFMG diploma and then didnt get residency. He advertised on his office DDS/MD. You can do this as long as you are NOT treating patients, but since he was, he was breaking state adn federal law. Needless to say, he was fined a ton of money and NBME/FSMB barred him from every being eligible to board certify.

I find it hard to believe that ANYONE smart enough to graduate from osteopathic med school would misrepresent their degree to save face. If this is happening, its just a matter of time before he sees black bars surrounding him or bankruptcy.
 
Osteotastic said:
This is actually a common misunderstanding. That hiring bodies really care where you went to school. With few exceptions they don't - unless we are talking about academic medicine or Ivory tower places. They are, when it is all said and done businesses too. When it comes down to it they rely on patient satisfaction and ratings and they know that most patients have no clue that Caribbean school means lower quality and that the patients very rarely even look to see where the doctor went but they do see the letters on your coat and this does have a subconscious impact on whether they view you as legit or not. Again the gold standard for real deal doctor is the MD. It is ubiquitous. It just is. Again this is not good or bad and nothing to do with ego... it just is and that translates into market value of those two simple letters.
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Interesting explanation, but if that is so, why haven't more employers been pushing their DOs to invest in Carib MDs? Or why aren't their many more DO's trying to obtain the Carib MDs?

It is probably illegal as josephmedman mentioned. The one guy I mentioned seemed to had found a loophole and timed everything perfectly, but obviously his case is an exception.
 
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josephmedman said:
Thats actually SUPER illegal. To legally represent yourself on a white coat as an MD, you need to have a Doctorate of Medicine. Although the parallels are too numerous to count, the degrees REMAIN separate and whoever is a DO putting MD after their name can be in SERIOUS trouble if found out. Most people get by this nuance by putting Dr. BEFORE their name but MD afterwards is literally as legal as an RN putting MD instead of RN.

There is a true case about a DDS(Dentist). He went to the carib for med school, passed all his boards, got his ECFMG diploma and then didnt get residency. He advertised on his office DDS/MD. You can do this as long as you are NOT treating patients, but since he was, he was breaking state adn federal law. Needless to say, he was fined a ton of money and NBME/FSMB barred him from every being eligible to board certify.

I find it hard to believe that ANYONE smart enough to graduate from osteopathic med school would misrepresent their degree to save face. If this is happening, its just a matter of time before he sees black bars surrounding him or bankruptcy.
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Super illegal as opposed to just plain illegal, man that sounds bad. I'm going to have to consult my lawyer on that one : ). So this guy was a DDS ok. I'm not sure it is illegal if one completes a ACGME residency and passes USMLE to use a offshore MD except in certain states. That said, this is why I have always been a major advocate of just adding an M to our title to make it clear that we are medical doctors as MDO. This would be the cleanest and simplest solution until we all merge which will probably happen eventually anyhow.
 
Osteotastic said:
...You will always have a job. If you want to be a leader in the medical field have private practice or write books the DO title again does not work for you - unless you are in an area of need or a place in the midwest where they really like DOs and most people don't want to live - but it is not to say this cannot be done.

I have a DO degree and I have succeeded in residency and will in my career no doubt but I may consider adding a MD from offshore just for business purposes if the title is not eventually changed to MDO.

Either way I will succeed however because the truth is with or without these, I'm just plain awesome and that's just a fact
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I'm sorry but this argument seems incredibly far-fetched to me. I'm surprised that it's coming from a resident because I have never heard a DO student, resident, or attending, speak so adamantly against the "marketability" of their own degree. There are plenty of DOs with successful private practices (yes in private practice it is made somewhat harder because some patients may not know what your degree is), ones in academic medicine at allopathic medical schools and residency programs, prominent researchers, "leaders of their field" so to speak...

Secondly, I don't understand why you are such a proponent of "MDO." It would honestly make no difference; it would still not be recognizable to the public. A degree change is simply not a realistic approach to solving the problem of public awareness.

And the mentality that "I will succeed where others haven't" is incredibly short-sighted.
 
Osteotastic said:
Super illegal as opposed to just plain illegal, man that sounds bad. I'm going to have to consult my lawyer on that one : ). So this guy was a DDS ok. I'm not sure it is illegal if one completes a ACGME residency and passes USMLE to use a offshore MD except in certain states. That said, this is why I have always been a major advocate of just adding an M to our title to make it clear that we are medical doctors as MDO. This would be the cleanest and simplest solution until we all merge which will probably happen eventually anyhow.
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How many more times are you going to mention MDO? There are other threads dedicated to that whole issue.

I feel that DO is a safer bet. Carib match rates are already lower than DO, and from reading posts by people more knowledgeable than I, are likely going to fall further.

What good is any MD without a residency? None. Worrying about your post-residency life so much that you don't see the snake pit right in front of you isn't wise.
 
Most of the patients don't seem to know what an MD degree is, never mind a DO degree. Why does it matter?
 
I think if people spent more time becoming more skilled in their practice of medicine, the letters behind their name would become less relevant.

Bottom line: sick people seek treatment. To become more "marketable", think of ways to become the path of least resistance. Work where the sick people are. I know a doc who practices rural family medicine and banks because he built his practice in the center of multiple rural communities. I guarantee that the degree will not matter if you save EVERYONE an hour drive.
 
Oh... those are really cute responses. Its ok, your egos' will be ok, take deep breaths. Where is all that emotion coming from. I wonder?
 
Is marketing a problem? I thought there are enough patients to go around.
 
Osteotastic said:
Oh... those are really cute responses. Its ok, your egos' will be ok, take deep breaths. Where is all that emotion coming from. I wonder?
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My arguments are not rooted in emotion.

I'm simply incredulous that a resident DO (ACGME program or not) would speak so vehemently in favor of a degree that doesn't exist and also discourage people from making an obvious decision of favoring a DO admission over a Caribbean MD when the match/attrition statistics are clearly in favor of the former.

Yes, I do agree with you that DOs need to be recognized as doctors trained in modern medicine. No, I do not believe the way to do this is by changing the degree we are granted.

Yes, I am troubled by the fact that some ACGME PD's prefer MD applicants over DO ones despite equal (or lower) stats and that the "strength" of a program, according to some, is measured by how small the percentage of FMG's/DO's is. No, I don't think that this entitles us as DO's to demand that our degree be changed.
 
Why so serious? JK Why so incredulous?

What about me being a DO and stating that our title is outdated and poorly represents us is so hard to accept. I gained the tools to be a physician when I went to medical school but my brain did not change, I was not branded as far as I know, I am the same person capable of reasoned logical and unbiased thought based in practicality.

I do agree though that this topic needs a new thread to be started so that this thread does not become focused on degree change. Older threads I know of are pretty ancient so I'll start up a new one.
 
How do we know that MD's are getting residencies over DO's when the average MD board scores are significantly higher and MD's having access to rotations at hospitals associated with their respective MD school? There are just so many confounding factors.
 
: ) This we know, its not a question. I've served on selection committees and seen the bias first hand as well (not from me).
 
HoboCommander said:
How do we know that MD's are getting residencies over DO's when the average MD board scores are significantly higher and MD's having access to rotations at hospitals associated with their respective MD school? There are just so many confounding factors.
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We know. You can tell by multiple people's experience in terms of not being granted interviews at specific institutions when their MD applicant counterparts with weaker applications/lower stats were.
 
How about this:

NYU - Internal Medicine

Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

Or this:

Vanderbilt - Internal Medicine

The Department of Medicine has stated that they will not accept any Osteopathic students. The reason for this is that they do not accept these students for residency interviews or residency spots. Therefore, the Department feels it would be a waste of the student's time for them to spend a rotation here. This is a very delicate response that we must give. Because students are unable to rotate in Medicine Rotations, VSAS will block them from even applying.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/registrar/visiting-student-faqs
 
meliora27 said:
How about this:

NYU - Internal Medicine

Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

Or this:

Vanderbilt - Internal Medicine

The Department of Medicine has stated that they will not accept any Osteopathic students. The reason for this is that they do not accept these students for residency interviews or residency spots. Therefore, the Department feels it would be a waste of the student's time for them to spend a rotation here. This is a very delicate response that we must give. Because students are unable to rotate in Medicine Rotations, VSAS will block them from even applying.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/registrar/visiting-student-faqs
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What are you getting at?

I looked at the current Vanderbilt housestaff... they have a couple IMG's but they're not from the Caribbean. NYU doesn't have their current residents' info listed on their website but they say 6% (10 out of 166) are IMG's.

Yes some programs explicitly do not take DO's (they throw away your application).
 
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i think it's cute how obsessed DO students seem to be with IMGs. there are plenty of brilliant IMGs who will kick your butt from here to next Sunday. focus on your goal and get the scores to prove you're "as good as MDs".
 
Anastomoses said:
I'm amused by DOs who try to put down IMG schools. It's laughable especially if you look at the passing rates along with the match rates. Plenty of IMGs get more competitive residencies that DOs don't get. And the fail rate is also only about 10% less than IMGs, right?
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Anastomoses said:
i think it's cute how obsessed DO students seem to be with IMGs. there are plenty of brilliant IMGs who will kick your butt from here to next Sunday. focus on your goal and get the scores to prove you're "as good as MDs".
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You may think it's "cute" but the evidence in support of choosing a DO school over the Caribbean in terms of match statistics is there. Here is an age-old thread that's always good to consider in this discussion:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813819

Speaking purely about Caribbean IMG's (I don't know enough about foreign grads to comment)... the match rate is much less than DO. When you combine the fact that the AOA match is protected and that most residencies have a equal if not greater bias against IMG's than against DO's, the difference is evident.

That's not to say there aren't brilliant US IMG's. Because there are. I went to college with people who chose the Caribbean. Heck some of my best friends did. I rotate with St. George's students every day. They're smart people. Some of them are rockstars and consistently outshine DO students. But when you talk just about the match and how hard it is to obtain a residency purely based on probability, DO students have the clear advantage. Degree-wise, of course an MD degree is more publicly accepted than a DO degree... but US IMG's have it rough in the match.
 
meliora27 said:
How about this:

NYU - Internal Medicine

Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

Or this:

Vanderbilt - Internal Medicine

The Department of Medicine has stated that they will not accept any Osteopathic students. The reason for this is that they do not accept these students for residency interviews or residency spots. Therefore, the Department feels it would be a waste of the student’s time for them to spend a rotation here. This is a very delicate response that we must give. Because students are unable to rotate in Medicine Rotations, VSAS will block them from even applying.

* They do take FMG's however (or so they say)

Source: https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/registrar/visiting-student-faqs
Click to expand...

Where did you find the information about Vandy? I've looked on their website and didn't see that anywhere.
 
I'm not sure how a market analysis of the degrees translates into an effective basis for deciding to go off shore vs a DO school. That's just common sense in terms of investment. Let's see should I give my 200k or more to this DO school down the road or this sheistery guy blowing through town with brochures on how awesome studying on the beach is.

The fact that is a serious question that requires debate in the era of the Internet, means to me, that that person is not all there, for whatever reason, and is therefore not worth convincing.
 
JourneyAgent said:
I'm not sure how a market analysis of the degrees translates into an effective basis for deciding to go off shore vs a DO school. That's just common sense in terms of investment. Let's see should I give my 200k or more to this DO school down the road or this sheistery guy blowing through town with brochures on how awesome studying on the beach is.

The fact that is a serious question that requires debate in the era of the Internet, means to me, that that person is not all there, for whatever reason, and is therefore not worth convincing.
Click to expand...

You know what they say about arguing with pigs.
 
This thread is starting to get toxic. Lets tone it down a bit eh? There are no pigs here just humans with opinions.
 
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