D.O. Student Orthopedic Surgery Matched-AMA

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TheBoneDoctah

TheBoneDoctah

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I matched into orthopedic surgery! Please feel free to DM me and I can answer any questions you may have!

I just wanted to share the knowledge that I gained throughout the ortho process. Applying to ortho as a DO student can be confusing as there isn't much information out there. Throughout the process, I gained a ton of advice on SDN so I just wanted to give back. Please ask me anything! I promise I have nothing better to do right now.

Here are the meat and potatoes of my application. I had a lot of other things listed in research experiences, awards, etc, but I think what is listed below is 90% of my app. I was super specific on my research section below so you could see what kinda stuff I had.

Stats:
USMLE Step 1: 250s
USMLE Step 2: 240s
COMLEX Level 1: mid 600s
COMLEX Level 2: mid 600s
COMLEX PE: P (first attempt)

LOR:
3 solid letters (2 non-ortho, 1 ortho)
1 amazing letter (ortho)
The reason I know this is because I was told about my letters on my interviews. I haven’t actually read them.

Research:
Publications:
7-9 case reports and full manuscript pubs (ortho and non-ortho)
Poster Presentations:
5-8 poster presentations (ortho and non-ortho)
Oral/Podium Presentations:
1 podium presentation

Interviews:
9 interviews total (6 DO, 3 MD)

Please feel free to DM me and I can answer any questions you may have!

*Click this link to see updated orthopaedic surgery audition reviews!*
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SynapticDoctah said:
DO students going into ortho have a tough time sometimes getting sound advice. With auditions coming up, does anyone have questions? I’m off for the next few months with not much to do, so ask away.


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Not too much into ortho much these days anymore, but just wanted to say congrats!
 
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SynapticDoctah said:
DO students going into ortho have a tough time sometimes getting sound advice. With auditions coming up, does anyone have questions? I’m off for the next few months with not much to do, so ask away.


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Congrats!

One of the most helpful things you can do is to post honest reviews about the programs you rotated at for rising students. Programs change every year and updated reviews are very helpful.
 
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DarkHorizon said:
Congrats!

One of the most helpful things you can do is to post honest reviews about the programs you rotated at for rising students. Programs change every year and updated reviews are very helpful.
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Absolutely. Another SDN member and myself were going to do this on Friday after matches are released. We are going to make sure it’s up to date.


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SynapticDoctah said:
DO students going into ortho have a tough time sometimes getting sound advice. With auditions coming up, does anyone have questions? I’m off for the next few months with not much to do, so ask away.


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Congratulations!

What would you have done differently if your Step 1 was Pass/Fail?
 
Stats? Research? How many interviews? And how many interviews at historically ACGME places?
 
Kardio said:
Congratulations!

What would you have done differently if your Step 1 was Pass/Fail?
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Great question.

The entire P/F thing is still really up in the air it seems. Program directors are going to need to find a new way to differentiate applicants and will do that by looking at Step 2 CK, research, letters, medical school, and auditions.

The good thing if you are a DO applying is that most of the previously AOA programs (from my knowledge) care mostly about COMLEX (which is still scored). Your shot at getting into an “MD” program will be limited now without being able to prove yourself with Step 1 in my opinion.

My experience with this interview season was that many DOs do not have research. I had a few published papers (3 first author and many others 2nd and 3rd author) and was asked about it on most of my interviews. To me, it seemed they were really interested because it set me apart. If you can get published before applying, you will be ahead of many of the other applicants.

Auditions are the main part of the DO ortho world though. You can have a 270, 15 pubs, etc...and if you are not fun to work with or are a know it all, you won’t match. I know multiple people like that this cycle who went unmatched.

So I guess to answer your question...it blows that USMLE is now P/F, but what you can do it work on the other areas of your app to stand out.
 
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SynapticDoctah said:
Great question.

The entire P/F thing is still really up in the air it seems. Program directors are going to need to find a new way to differentiate applicants and will do that by looking at Step 2 CK, research, letters, medical school, and auditions.

The good thing if you are a DO applying is that most of the previously AOA programs (from my knowledge) care mostly about COMLEX (which is still scored). Your shot at getting into an “MD” program will be limited now without being able to prove yourself with Step 1 in my opinion.

My experience with this interview season was that many DOs do not have research. I had a few published papers (3 first author and many others 2nd and 3rd author) and was asked about it on most of my interviews. To me, it seemed they were really interested because it set me apart. If you can get published before applying, you will be ahead of many of the other applicants.

Auditions are the main part of the DO ortho world though. You can have a 270, 15 pubs, etc...and if you are not fun to work with or are a know it all, you won’t match. I know multiple people like that this cycle who went unmatched.

So I guess to answer your question...it blows that USMLE is now P/F, but what you can do it work on the other areas of your app to stand out.
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Thanks for the detailed response. Were all/most of those publications within your field?

I am assuming Step/Level 2 functions as the de facto stratifier going forward (the NBOME is actually “looking into” changing Level 1 scoring, more info to come this summer).

Under circumstances of a P/F Step/Level 1, would you have devoted less time to board prep? If so, what general category of activity (GPA / class rank, volunteering, research, networking, etc) may you have spent more time on during M1 and M2?
 
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Kardio said:
Thanks for the detailed response. Were all/most of those publications within your field?

I am assuming Step/Level 2 functions as the de facto stratifier going forward (the NBOME is actually “looking into” changing Level 1 scoring, more info to come this summer).

Under circumstances of a P/F Step/Level 1, would you have devoted less time to board prep? If so, what general category of activity (GPA / class rank, volunteering, research, networking, etc) may you have spent more time on during M1 and M2?
Click to expand...

My research was about 80% orthopedic/surgery related. If you have nothing, don’t worry about it being in Ortho. Get something. Once you get something, then you can be more picky and try to get something ortho related. You definitely wanna have something to talk about research wise on interview day.

This is the negative for the P/F system is that students have less incentive to study and because of that, they won’t. IMO, it’s horrible for medicine as a whole. However, people who do well on Step 1 usually do well on Step 2, so having amazing study habits for Step 1 will roll over to Step 2. Before, if you messed up Step 1, you could somewhat use Step 2 to prove yourself. Now, you don’t have that and have to lay it down on 2.

If you were only looking at how to get into ortho, I wouldn’t put any weight into volunteering. They don’t care about that. Again, your heavy hitters are your boards, auditions, research and networking. You need to do ALL of these well to get into ortho.


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SynapticDoctah said:
My research was about 80% orthopedic/surgery related. If you have nothing, don’t worry about it being in Ortho. Get something. Once you get something, then you can be more picky and try to get something ortho related. You definitely wanna have something to talk about research wise on interview day.

This is the negative for the P/F system is that students have less incentive to study and because of that, they won’t. IMO, it’s horrible for medicine as a whole. However, people who do well on Step 1 usually do well on Step 2, so having amazing study habits for Step 1 will roll over to Step 2. Before, if you messed up Step 1, you could somewhat use Step 2 to prove yourself. Now, you don’t have that and have to lay it down on 2.

If you were only looking at how to get into ortho, I wouldn’t put any weight into volunteering. They don’t care about that. Again, your heavy hitters are your boards, auditions, research and networking. You need to do ALL of these well to get into ortho.


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Where were you able to find your research opportunities? Were they through your school or did you go to other institutions? What year of medical school did you start doing research?
 
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No need for me to know about Ortho, but I just wanted to offer my sincere congratulations. That's awesome!
 
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Congrats bro, glad to hear the grind paid off you deserve it! I’m definitely looking forward to those reviews you guys will be posting. But in the mean time, how do you go about getting sick LORs? Also how do you set yourself apart on auditions/what did you do to prepare?
 
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Scrubs101 said:
Congrats bro, glad to hear the grind paid off you deserve it! I’m definitely looking forward to those reviews you guys will be posting. But in the meantime, how do you go about getting sick LORs? Also, how do you set yourself apart on auditions/what did you do to prepare?
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For my letters of recommendation, I had 2 non-ortho, and 2 ortho. For your ortho letters, really try and get one from a well-known ortho. DO ortho is a small world, so an amazing letter from someone who is known by many people will go far. You will figure out who these people are once you start your "quest." LOL. The best letters are going to be from people you work with the most. For example, both of my ortho letters were from docs I worked with a lot, one of which I worked on a little research with. These are the people that know you the best and will go to bat for you in a letter. If you can get a letter from a PD that states they want you for their program, that is the best thing they can write.

Setting yourself apart is not as hard as it seems. Common sense. Work hard. There are a ton of "what to do on auditions" posts on SDN and Reddit. Basically, what you want to do boils down to 3 key things: 1. Work hard-always. 2. be someone fun to be around. 3. know your ortho.

If you do these 3 things, you will be ahead of most of your peers. You would be surprised at how many people lack in one or more of these three areas.
 
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Thanks man, i appreciate the advice!! I may end up PM’ing you some specifics regarding LOR stuff later if thats cool. Hope youre able to celebrate properly even with the covid precautions
 
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Would you say you were at the top of your class?
 
bruh can you write me a LOR


congrats though!
 
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Synaptic said I could post in his thread so not derailing.

Also matched, not as smart as synaptic tho.

USMLE: 230's / 240's
COMLEX: low - mid 600s on both
Rank: 41/110
Research: 30+ pubs
Letters: Best part of my app

You can overcome your scores / rank and be very successful if you have an Ace up your sleeve. For me it was research and letters. For others they didn't have research or great letters, but had 800's and were cool. Moral to the story is, figure out what makes you stand out and exploit it, come up with a good plan with high-yield rotations, be nice and respectful and things will go your way.

Happy to help with any advice as well.
 
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Is getting involved with research best done 3rd year?
 
hungrydoc710 said:
Is getting involved with research best done 3rd year?
Click to expand...

Get involved as early as possible. Maybe first-year isn't the best time cause you need to learn how to study for medical school. Summer between first and second year is a good time IMO. However, I worked on research literally until I applied for ortho and even into my auditions. Just make sure you finish whatever you're working on BEFORE interviews so you can say "I have this paper published" etc. Case reports are better than nothing and are pretty straightforward. You can literally pump out a case report draft in less than a week if you do some work.
 
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DNC127 said:
Synaptic said I could post in his thread so not derailing.

Also matched, not as smart as synaptic tho.

USMLE: 230's / 240's
COMLEX: low - mid 600s on both
Rank: 41/110
Research: 30+ pubs
Letters: Best part of my app

You can overcome your scores / rank and be very successful if you have an Ace up your sleeve. For me it was research and letters. For others they didn't have research or great letters, but had 800's and were cool. Moral to the story is, figure out what makes you stand out and exploit it, come up with a good plan with high-yield rotations, be nice and respectful and things will go your way.

Happy to help with any advice as well.
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Dude. Over 30??? Are you human..
 
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SynapticDoctah said:
Get involved as early as possible. Maybe first-year isn't the best time cause you need to learn how to study for medical school. Summer between first and second year is a good time IMO. However, I worked on research literally until I applied for ortho and even into my auditions. Just make sure you finish whatever you're working on BEFORE interviews so you can say "I have this paper published" etc. Case reports are better than nothing and are pretty straightforward. You can literally pump out a case report draft in less than a week if you do some work.
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Are your case report sources from docs on your rotations or did you find other ways of accessing them? How many ortho aways did you do?
 
PunkRockMD said:
Are your case report sources from docs on your rotations or did you find other ways of accessing them? How many ortho aways did you do?
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Yes, interesting cases on my 3rd year rotations.

I did 6, 1 month-long auditions.


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SynapticDoctah said:
Yes, interesting cases on my 3rd year rotations.

I did 6 month-long auditions.


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Man, how do you survive that? Did you have any breaks in between them? How were you able to fit all of them in before ERAS? Or did you do a few after ERAS but before interviews?
 
slowthai said:
Man, how do you survive that? Did you have any breaks in between them? How were you able to fit all of them in before ERAS? Or did you do a few after ERAS but before interviews?
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If you REALLY want ortho, you need to do EVERYTHING you can to get it. Yeah it sucked. I basically was away for 6 straight months. I started July 1 (my first rotation was 3 weeks, but the last five were full months) and went through December 15. Breaks? The only breaks I had were weekends in between rotations where I drove 12 hours home to spend some time with the family or flew home. Again, you basically have six months to earn a spot somewhere. Use every day. I was ready to go into January for auditions, but I felt like I had a good chance at a few programs and decided against it. Your time now is TRULY important and I knew I would feel terrible come match day when I got a "Sorry, you did not match to any program" knowing that I did not give it my all and use ALL of my time available. I know some medical schools do not allow for 6-7 auditions, but try to do as many as they will allow at programs that have low rotators to give you the best shot at matching.

As far as ERAS goes, you apply in September (if I remember correctly), but interviews for ortho don't start till like mid-December. All your friends will interview in October-December, but ortho starts super late for some reason. You may have a few interviews during your December or January audition if you go that late, but the faculty and residents understand you have to interview and they don't mind you leaving.
 
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Wow, that is herculean. Thanks for your advice. The only reason why I asked about breaks is because I've heard about people doing 3+ aways spacing them out in order to avoid burnout, but clearly you felt that wasn't an option and you won out in the end.
 
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slowthai said:
Wow, that is herculean. Thanks for your advice. The only reason why I asked about breaks is because I've heard about people doing 3+ aways spacing them out in order to avoid burnout, but clearly you felt that wasn't an option and you won out in the end.
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The majority of people who matched did this same thing. You just gotta do it if you want ortho. No way around it.
 
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Even though my line of questioning maybe makes it look otherwise, I just want to be clear that I'm willing to put it all on the line for a chance to match. I guess being strategic to conserve energy to be able to stay on your A game across multiple aways is out the window loool. Well, whatever it takes. I wish there was a way to reliably prepare for this. This is like training for special forces or something haha
 
slowthai said:
Even though my line of questioning maybe makes it look otherwise, I just want to be clear that I'm willing to put it all on the line for a chance to match. I guess being strategic to conserve energy to be able to stay on your A game across multiple aways is out the window loool. Well, whatever it takes. I wish there was a way to reliably prepare for this. This is like training for special forces or something haha
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It goes by so fast. You don’t have time to think about conserving energy. It’s also really fun and enjoyable if you go to the right places.
 
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DNC127 said:
It goes by so fast. You don’t have time to think about conserving energy. It’s also really fun and enjoyable if you go to the right places.
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That's encouraging haha. Thanks.
 
how does you bench press max compare to your USMLE scores.
 
DOFOSHO said:
how does you bench press max compare to your USMLE scores.
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The more I studied for school and boards, the lower my bench went. I used to
Work out daily before med school, but stopped working out 2nd year.

However, I have been in the gym the past two months and am building back up. Currently, my bench is embarrassing but I’m not afraid to state that I use 55lb dumbbells right now. Amazing how fast your strength leaves when you don’t use it.


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Congrats man! Been following your progress for a while! Nice to see all your hard work pay off!

p.s. had to sell your desk I got when I first started med school, but it was a godsend during dedicated :D
 
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DNC127 said:
Synaptic said I could post in his thread so not derailing.

Also matched, not as smart as synaptic tho.

USMLE: 230's / 240's
COMLEX: low - mid 600s on both
Rank: 41/110
Research: 30+ pubs
Letters: Best part of my app

You can overcome your scores / rank and be very successful if you have an Ace up your sleeve sleep in the lab.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile I'm struggling to cobble together a single poster.
 
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Congrats man! I'm trying for general surgery which while not nearly as competitive as Ortho, isn't a breeze either. Any advice???
 
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Splenda88 said:
Did you take step2?
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I did. I took Comlex 1/2/PE and Step 1/2. Step 1/2 is going to be much more important now because of the merger. If you have a solid application, make sure you take the Steps so that you can throw you app to the MD world as well. You never know what you will get. The more interviews you get, the better your chances.


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Billroth_III said:
Congrats man! I'm trying for general surgery which while not nearly as competitive as Ortho, isn't a breeze either. Any advice???
Click to expand...

Essentially, it’s the same advice. Good letters, good scores, good auditions, and know your general surgery. For ortho, there is a new book called Pocket Pimped which has 1,500 questions that are always asked to students (many questions in the book are way over the level that a ortho medical student should know). That book was money when it came time to prep for surgeries and fracture conferences. There is a General Surgery Pocket Pimped now that literally just came out. Get it!

Do you have specific questions about general surgery? I can ask a few of my buddies who matched general surgery this year.


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SynapticDoctah said:
I did. I took Comlex 1/2/PE and Step 1/2. Step 1/2 is going to be much more important now because of the merger. If you have a solid application, make sure you take the Steps so that you can throw you app to the MD world as well. You never know what you will get. The more interviews you get, the better your chances.


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I am a PGY2 in IM; I was asking because you did not mention that you took step2 and what was your score.
 
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