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Danggggggg. This looks like the first legit pushback on liberal cancel culture that I have seen. Perhaps appeasing twtitterati won't be the only goal in life? I foresee a hefty settlement for Dr. Wang.
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I literally have no idea what's going on, which is weird for me. What's the fallout from this situation ?
 
By virtue of its name-sake tactic, "cancel culture" often involves a disproportionate response... and in this case, it invited another disproportionate response

The moral of the story is: if you don't have anything nice to say, best to attack the merits of someone's argument, and not attack the person.


It's one of those movies where I am rooting against all of the characters.
 
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evilbooyaa said:
Danggggggg. This looks like the first legit pushback on liberal cancel culture that I have seen. Perhaps appeasing twtitterati won't be the only goal in life? I foresee a hefty settlement for Dr. Wang.
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My father was a (handicapped) school superintendent. One weekend he was invited to say the breakfast prayer for a community group of Christian gay men who met for breakfast on Saturdays. He did. Later this was published in local news as "Superintendent attends gay prayer breakfast" or something like that, but nothing really openly negative was ever said about him. But controversy erupted anyways, because gay. He was fired by the School Board. He got a pretty good settlement. What Wang went through was waaaay worse than that. He'll get reinstated if he wants (he won't want), and they'll owe him $5 mil. It seems like a $5 mil case lol.
 
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evilbooyaa said:
Danggggggg. This looks like the first legit pushback on liberal cancel culture that I have seen. Perhaps appeasing twtitterati won't be the only goal in life? I foresee a hefty settlement for Dr. Wang.
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Agree, he is a professor and deserves due process. This would be an interesting supreme court case.
 
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scarbrtj said:
My father was a (handicapped) school superintendent. One weekend he was invited to say the breakfast prayer for a community group of Christian gay men who met for breakfast on Saturdays. He did. Later this was published in local news as "Superintendent attends gay prayer breakfast" or something like that, but nothing really openly negative was ever said about him. But controversy erupted anyways, because gay. He was fired by the School Board. He got a pretty good settlement. What Wang went through was waaaay worse than that. He'll get reinstated if he wants (he won't want), and they'll owe him $5 mil. It seems like a $5 mil case lol.
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Havent been following this but I thought fellows were not permitted to rotate with Wang. Was he fired?
 
Speaking of pushback, Princeton has been my favorite self-own so far this year:

www.nytimes.com

Princeton Admitted Past Racism. Now It Is Under Investigation. (Published 2020)

The Trump administration opened a civil rights investigation into the university after its president acknowledged the role of systemic racism at the school.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

evilbooyaa said:
Danggggggg. This looks like the first legit pushback on liberal cancel culture that I have seen. Perhaps appeasing twtitterati won't be the only goal in life? I foresee a hefty settlement for Dr. Wang.
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I saw a link for an IAT on one of the radonc links

During the IAT you just completed:
Your responses suggested no automatic preference between Black people and White people.

I thinks preference is the wrong word. I have no automatic disdain is more correct.
 
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Ray D. Ayshun said:
I saw a link for an IAT on one of the radonc links

During the IAT you just completed:
Your responses suggested no automatic preference between Black people and White people.

I thinks preference is the wrong word. I have no automatic disdain is more correct.
Click to expand...

Uh oh, careful with the word "preference" now.
 
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The amount of nonsense “research” seems particularly higher this year.
 
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RadOncMegatron said:
Without skipping beat Dr. Jagsi doesn’t disappoint

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Tbh, I kinda wondered the same thing. Dr chino has a pretty large twitter presence. At the same time, it's not really a circle jerk if there's a female there. more horse**** either way.

At least they didn't find 4fx wbrt is equivalent to 5.
 
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Clearly, all of those leaders should do a fellowship with either David Palma or Arjun Sahgal so they can actually publish decent literature

It seems that bar is much higher for non US rad oncs when it comes to presenting at ASTRO than US rad oncs

How about that for disparity ?
 
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CHEDI? Seems unwieldy. Let's rearrange some letters.... here we go: CHIDE.... seems more apt.

 
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I didn't know CHEDI was a thing. No one even told me about it. Maybe because I'm an invisible minority, eh?

Doesn't matter, this changes nothing. Maybe the graduating class of 2025 can have the council of CHEDI tell the other ASTRO people that all those rural jobs aren't very friendly for them
 
Seems like a real missed opportunity. Should have been the Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Council.

I get really upset with leadership when obvious stuff like this gets missed.

especially when it would fit so well with our marketing of SABR to the public...

can someone please call Bob Timmerman about this??
 
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Zahramar said:
Clearly, all of those leaders should do a fellowship with either David Palma or Arjun Sahgal so they can actually publish decent literature

It seems that bar is much higher for non US rad oncs when it comes to presenting at ASTRO than US rad oncs

How about that for disparity ?
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meh. It is an American meeting!
 
RollTideRadOnc said:
Seems like a real missed opportunity. Should have been the Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion Council.
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SDN: Did you ever hear the tragedy of the RO job market?

Resident: No.

SDN: I thought not. It's not a story JEDI would tell you. It's an RO legend. Radiation Oncology was once a speciality so powerful and so wise, it could reliably recruit the cream de la crime of medical students. It had such a knowledge of medicine, it could even keep the ones it cared about...employed.

Resident: It could actually...produce only enough residents to support the job market?

SDN: The new Radiation Oncology SOP is to pump out untold numbers of residents for the selfish needs of academicians. It is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

Resident: What happened to them?

SDN: The chairs produced so many residents, that it would inevitably lead to unemployment and breadlines...which, eventually of course, it did. Unfortunately, rather than fix this problem the focus was on diversity as a distraction. Then the chairs were killed on social media for sending minorities and women into a dying specialty. Ironic. Radiation Oncology could save others from death...but the field could not save itself.

Resident: Is it possible to learn this power?

SDN: Not from a JEDI.
 
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Gfunk6 said:
SDN: Did you ever hear the tragedy of the RO job market?

Resident: No.

SDN: I thought not. It's not a story JEDI would tell you. It's an RO legend. Radiation Oncology was once a speciality so powerful and so wise, it could reliably recruit the cream de la crime of medical students. It had such a knowledge of medicine, it could even keep the ones it cared about...employed.

Resident: It could actually...produce only enough residents to support the job market?

SDN: The new Radiation Oncology SOP is to pump out untold numbers of residents for the selfish needs of academicians. It is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

Resident: What happened to them?

SDN: The chairs produced so many residents, that it would inevitably lead to unemployment and breadlines...which, eventually of course, it did. Unfortunately, rather than fix this problem the focus was on diversity as a distraction. Then the chairs were killed on social media for sending minorities and women into a dying specialty. Ironic. Radiation Oncology could save others from death...but the field could not save itself.

Resident: Is it possible to learn this power?

SDN: Not from a JEDI.
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A masterclass!
 
Kendi Lecture Being Live Tweeted. No surprises. Systemic racism everywhere. White People's fault. Blah blah. ASTRO needs more CHEDI. Nothing in between racist and anti-racist.



Of course who gets to deem someone "anti-racist"? Crickets

Excellent counter to Dr. Kendi here by another black intellectual (w/ time stamp):





Kendi's own words here referred to in Coleman Hughes video: Idea: Pass an Anti-Racist Constitutional Amendment



"To fix the original sin of racism, Americans should pass an anti-racist amendment to the U.S. Constitution that enshrines two guiding anti-racist principals: Racial inequity is evidence of racist policy and the different racial groups are equals. The amendment would make unconstitutional racial inequity over a certain threshold, as well as racist ideas by public officials (with “racist ideas” and “public official” clearly defined). It would establish and permanently fund the Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees."

This is extremely Orwellian and frightening.
 
RadOncMegatron said:
This is extremely Orwellian and frightening.
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I find it all more steeped in faux reverent religiosity vs Orwellianism (maybe there's not a big difference). To wit:
"You will be transformed" : "You must be born again." John 3:7
"You think you know but you don't" : "...no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Matthew 24:36
"[Antiracism] takes deliberate, consistent work. It’s work to transform oneself and society" : Faith without works is useless!, James 2

Repent, renounce, convert or die, etc.
 
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scarbrtj said:
I find it all more steeped in faux reverent religiosity vs Orwellianism (maybe there's not a big difference). To wit:
"You will be transformed" : "You must be born again." John 3:7
"You think you know but you don't" : "...no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Matthew 24:36
"[Antiracism] takes deliberate, consistent work. It’s work to transform oneself and society" : Faith without works is useless!, James 2

Repent, renounce, convert or die, etc.
Click to expand...
We need a cultural revolution.
 
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scarbrtj said:
I find it all more steeped in faux reverent religiosity vs Orwellianism (maybe there's not a big difference). To wit:
"You will be transformed" : "You must be born again." John 3:7
"You think you know but you don't" : "...no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Matthew 24:36
"[Antiracism] takes deliberate, consistent work. It’s work to transform oneself and society" : Faith without works is useless!, James 2

Repent, renounce, convert or die, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm deathly allergic to both faux reverent religiosity and Orwellianism. I'll take your word for it, astute observation.
 
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RickyScott said:
We need a cultural revolution.
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Zahramar said:
I'm deathly allergic to both faux reverent religiosity and Orwellianism. I'll take your word for it, astute observation.
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I'm actually very curious to see if they really don't see the parallels from China's cultural revolution or Orwell's 1984? I mean a federal Dept. of Anti-Racism?

No seriously, federal dept. of Anti-Racism doesn't is SCREAM ORWELLIAN? But I suppose it's one stone's throw away from a chair of Diversity Inclusion and Equity. Is it really that level of cognitive dissonance?

I guess George Santayana was right "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

NM it is that level of cognitive dissonance:

 
RadOncMegatron said:
Kendi Lecture Being Live Tweeted. No surprises. Systemic racism everywhere. White People's fault. Blah blah. ASTRO needs more CHEDI. Nothing in between racist and anti-racist.



Of course who gets to deem someone "anti-racist"? Crickets

Excellent counter to Dr. Kendi here by another black intellectual (w/ time stamp):





Kendi's own words here referred to in Coleman Hughes video: Idea: Pass an Anti-Racist Constitutional Amendment



"To fix the original sin of racism, Americans should pass an anti-racist amendment to the U.S. Constitution that enshrines two guiding anti-racist principals: Racial inequity is evidence of racist policy and the different racial groups are equals. The amendment would make unconstitutional racial inequity over a certain threshold, as well as racist ideas by public officials (with “racist ideas” and “public official” clearly defined). It would establish and permanently fund the Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees."

This is extremely Orwellian and frightening.
Click to expand...


I did my part to address racism today and watched What Killed Michael Brown.
 
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Must be a modifier code or something!
 
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RadOncMegatron said:
Without skipping beat Dr. Jagsi doesn’t disappoint

Click to expand...



As one of the introducers at a prior ASTRO conference I am wondering how these authors decided they should be performing my gender assignment? My name is very unisex and I do not remember filling out a form regarding how I want my gender assigned. Talk about a step in the wrong direction. I am not going to get into how infuriated I am that there are only 2 categories of gender in this study! I have been awake all night distressed over these sort of actions by our "leadership for diversity." And then to top it off, Reshma seems to know everyone's gender through twitter just by looking at my twitter handle! DO BET TER RESH MA (hands clapping emoji, hands clapping emoji, hands clapping emoji, hands clapping emoji, hands clapping emoji (the hand clapping emojis are meant to coincide with each syllable)).
 
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Spratt appropriately replied to that b.s. baiting with common sense tweets that cut through all the nonsense while still being respectful.

Lordy, I wonder what the dept meetings are like with the both of them in the same room...
 
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Definitely not the company I would want to be in but to each their own I guess.
 
medgator said:
How is it discrimination if there are many more applicants than slots available and they are all qualified?
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Hiring one candidate over another based on color of the skin, gender or gender identity, religion is discrimination. These attributes are irrelevant for most jobs. I choose a car mechanic, a barber or a dry cleaner not because he/she is black or white or mixed-race or Korean or Ethiopian or goes to Mass every Sunday, but because of the quality of work he/she does. Same selection rules apply to the profession of medicine. We need more good doctors. Open the doors to all. But keep the threshold high.
 
Carotenoid said:
Hiring one candidate over another based on color of the skin, gender or gender identity, religion is discrimination. These attributes are irrelevant for most jobs. I choose a car mechanic, a barber or a dry cleaner not because he/she is black or white or mixed-race or Korean or Ethiopian or goes to Mass every Sunday, but because of the quality of work he/she does. Same selection rules apply to the profession of medicine. We need more good doctors. Open the doors to all. But keep the threshold high.
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How do you that? If you make it a random exam that Asians or males do better on but has no basis on eventual competency/BC down the road, have we done anyone any favors by selecting for Asians/males?
 
RadOncMegatron said:
Uh oh, careful with the word "preference" now.
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I came back to this randomly, but it's interesting what we're allowed to prefer. Wrt to sex or love, we're apparently strictly animals. It's instinct, or something. Otoh, we're allowed to prefer races? Where's the line where we go from no choice to choice?
 
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OTN said:
There a lots (LOTS!) of places on the internet where one can get into a political discussion. If we want this forum to be a place, fine, and I realize this thread was started in part to address a political movement, but I'd prefer it at least tangentially be related to radiation oncology. But, if everyone's cool with it, no big deal to me.

I do, however, think there is value in talking about the continued creep of postmodernism/critical race theory into radiation oncology, and clearly ASTRO agrees, what with Dr. Kendi and all, which is what this thread was originally addressing. Maybe (de)volution into a frank political discussion is inevitable with such a topic
Click to expand...

Anybody else see the Social Dilemma? It makes me wonder if we are all really being "manipulated" (ie just clicking on stories the algorithm feeds us) that's why it got to the point where Dr. Kendi is invited to ASTRO. Perhaps it is controversial thoughts like his that is promoted on the SoMe platforms and it got this way. I am even more disheartened to think about how my mind has been transformed by all this stuff. Perhaps that is why ASTRO didn't think it was a big controversial deal (I'm trying to be charitable here folks!) to invite him and never thought to bring an opposing view? This may at least be part of the story, but not sure.
 
OTN said:
There a lots (LOTS!) of places on the internet where one can get into a political discussion. If we want this forum to be a place, fine, and I realize this thread was started in part to address a political movement, but I'd prefer it at least tangentially be related to radiation oncology.
Click to expand...

It would be quite nice to not have politics (of any kind) be shoved down my throat when I come here for other information. This thread has had a lot of interesting tidbits that have been related to radiation oncology, but it gets out of hand quite often here and is annoying.
 
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RadOncMegatron said:
Anybody else see the Social Dilemma? It makes me wonder if we are all really being "manipulated" (ie just clicking on stories the algorithm feeds us) that's why it got to the point where Dr. Kendi is invited to ASTRO. Perhaps it is controversial thoughts like his that is promoted on the SoMe platforms and it got this way. I am even more disheartened to think about how my mind has been transformed by all this stuff. Perhaps that is why ASTRO didn't think it was a big controversial deal (I'm trying to be charitable here folks!) to invite him and never thought to bring an opposing view? This may at least be part of the story, but not sure.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it takes someone in academia to raise their hand and say "I want to bring in an opposing view to Dr. Kendi." As Bret Weinstein's saga so effectively demonstrated, this is a dangerous position to take.
 
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This thread is for discussion of racism and sexism IN RADIATION ONCOLOGY. ~30 posts deleted.

Discussion of COVID-19 and masks is not to be done in this thread. KHE has been permanently banned. Keep the discussion on topic going forward or additional warnings will be handed out.
 
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Deleted 5 more posts that are off-topic to the discussion of this thread. Warning handed out.

Keep it on topic or warnings will continue.
 
RadOncMegatron said:
Update on the Dr. Norman Wang's situation. I hope the feds get not only Pitt, but the AHA as well. I have no issues with a rebuttal to Dr. Wang's article. It's about time there is real push back on this nonsense. The reality is though, open discussion is >>>> than retraction and getting the DOE involved, but such are the times...



Edit: Full DOE letter here: https://libertyunyielding.com/wp-co...rgh-Oct.-7-2020-about-Norman-Wang-removal.pdf
Click to expand...

Watch this mysteriously and/or unceremoniously disappear in January. Just like COVID will!
 
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Variation in Treatment Planning of Radiation Therapy Procedures in the United States​

www.journalofclinicalpathways.com

Variation in Treatment Planning of Radiation Therapy Procedures in the United States

A recent study suggests that provider characteristics, like gender, geographic region in which they practice, and years since graduation, may influence the selection of radiation planning techniques for Medicare patients (JCO Oncol Pract. 2021; OP2000441. doi:10.1200/OP.20.00441). “Variation in...
www.journalofclinicalpathways.com www.journalofclinicalpathways.com

"Men just bill better" 😉
 
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medgator said:

Variation in Treatment Planning of Radiation Therapy Procedures in the United States​

www.journalofclinicalpathways.com

Variation in Treatment Planning of Radiation Therapy Procedures in the United States

A recent study suggests that provider characteristics, like gender, geographic region in which they practice, and years since graduation, may influence the selection of radiation planning techniques for Medicare patients (JCO Oncol Pract. 2021; OP2000441. doi:10.1200/OP.20.00441). “Variation in...
www.journalofclinicalpathways.com www.journalofclinicalpathways.com

"Men just bill better" 😉
Click to expand...
Let loose Reshma Jagsi, Sue Yom, and others on the authors of that paper... I'm sure they won't live to see another day :lol:
 
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