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Dare you to reply!
- Thread starter RadOncMegatron
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Anecdotally, that under 5-% is a load.
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Maybe ASTRO can still at least give him a atime slot at the plenary for the trailer ?
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deleted1111261
Bone mets are my jam. Especially single fx + SBRT.
This article really bothers me.
Why? Because this is the only outcome that is acceptable.
If minorities more likely to get 30/10, conclusion is "we are over treating these patients and causing financial toxicity and making them come to center for two weeks instead of 1 day." If minorities more likely to get 8/1, then "we are allowing them to be treated suboptimally, b/c they will need more re-treatment and that is another microaggression".
I don't like this. I am very uncomfortable with what we are doing in medicine.
This article really bothers me.
Why? Because this is the only outcome that is acceptable.
If minorities more likely to get 30/10, conclusion is "we are over treating these patients and causing financial toxicity and making them come to center for two weeks instead of 1 day." If minorities more likely to get 8/1, then "we are allowing them to be treated suboptimally, b/c they will need more re-treatment and that is another microaggression".
I don't like this. I am very uncomfortable with what we are doing in medicine.
It's just super lazy "research" which doesn't ask an interesting question, would absolutely frame the results in a way which would decry our racist healthcare system if they were positive (no matter which way), and has zero chance of ever benefiting patients in any material way.
On a totally unrelated note, how about that Alzheimer's data in the other thread? Would be super cool if academic radoncs weren't, you know, a couple of decades behind there. Maybe once every single "is this racist?" study is published they'll get on it.
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Vinay prassad kind of broached this issue. Only positive grievance studies get published. I have personal experience as I was involved in an outcomes project many years ago of stage 3 lung inner city black pts vs those treated at a nearby nci center. Problem was that inner city black pts were doing better, so naturally it was shelved.
Prassad reffered to some horrible inflammatory paper that had gotten national attention about white docotors beibg more likely to kill black babies in Florida.
A lot of the of the grievance literature gets twisted to such a degree that it implies that URM are better off getting 0 health care because, of course, we are actively trying to kill them. Remember on average that modern hospitals/health care adds 2-4 years to life expectancy, yet I have seen multiple instances where grievance studies imply that differences in care produce 5-10 year differences in life expectancy.
Prassad reffered to some horrible inflammatory paper that had gotten national attention about white docotors beibg more likely to kill black babies in Florida.
A lot of the of the grievance literature gets twisted to such a degree that it implies that URM are better off getting 0 health care because, of course, we are actively trying to kill them. Remember on average that modern hospitals/health care adds 2-4 years to life expectancy, yet I have seen multiple instances where grievance studies imply that differences in care produce 5-10 year differences in life expectancy.
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Was it shelved because it didn't show the racial disparity they were looking for, or because it would make the NCI center look bad? I know where my vote lies.
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Abstract Conclusion: "Analysis of patient and physician characteristics revealed that race did not influence treatment decisions such as duration of palliative RT regimen or use of SRS."
It's a negative analysis. Will get zero fan fare because it did not receive the conclusion desired.
But, I don't hate the analysis myself. I like this line from the conclusion of the main paper:
"In conclusion, we feel that this work is important in that it can help offset other studies showing treatment bias"
This provides published data that suggests not all Rad Oncs are racist. I'm 100% on board with research that suggests not all Rad Oncs are racist.
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You think that has to do with Ukraine?
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Ukraine is so last month…sdn has moved on
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Gender is so confusing these days. We're allowed to look at pictures of a panel to determine if it's a manel, but if I think someone is a man because they have a penis, I'm the assho1e. In all honesty, more power to everyone, just bored with hearing about it.
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The DIE folks are in a catch 22 for prostate cancer. They want diversity for the sake of their patients, which for GI they could make an argument for, but for prostate cancer, it’s all men, so then screw the patient experience we need diversity of physicians for the sake of ummm… employment equity I guess???
DIE for whatever is convenient.
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Honestly says more about you then the speaker. 20 years ago did you wonder if your chair only got his job because he was a man?
Speaking gigs go out for a lot of reasons. Expertise being one of many and often not that high on the list. Social/alumni networks are far more influential.
Maybe you haven't heard but this board doesn't think much of chairmen either.
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You have been very fair here, but way off on this one. Dr. Kamran’s credentials for oncology are stellar and it doesn’t matter that she is a woman. What are her credentials to speak out on manels? Not to mention perhaps there may be nothing wrong with manels. This is much much different then questioning someone’s credentials for a real subject say prostate cancer.
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Like thinking a man's on a panel bc he's a man? Obv, if it's a manel that's being created, then yeah, it's got to be a man I guess. If a practicing Buddhist who looks like a man is on a panel, does it count as a manel still? I suppose it would be all men and a non-self, so perhaps a manel. More importantly, if a practicing Buddhist who looks like a female is on a panel with all men, is it still a manel? That's tricky. These are important questions.
she had a NEJM paper on this recently right?
one random point w/these types of commentaries regarding manels is that the people doing this research and talking about it are putting people into two main boxes when we know that in 2022 there are many more ways people identify than man vs. woman. i'm not being tongue in cheek here, but do we know with 100% certainty that every man truly identifies as a "man".
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Maybe, but quite honestly, I was able to keep up with the occasional DIE editorials in NEJM and JCO, but in the past 2 years or so there has been an explosion of articles that I cannot keep up.
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deleted1116990
Identification is not something you do to your self. It's what other people do to you. Ultimately, you cannot change how people perceive you regardless if you can compel the words that come out of their mouths by threatening their career or even levying criminal penalizes if they do not obey.
Perhaps Drew Moghanaki identifies as a kind and humble public servant. That is not how most perceive him because their eyes, ears, and brains through a process of thousands of years of evolution tell them differently. It is literally impossible to undo these natural tendencies. Some will admit this and say it's implicit bias and we should just self-immolate indefinitely with constant reminders of just how awful human evolution turned out and pretend we can intelligently redesign everything better than natural forces. Yeah, that sounds healthy and like it will end well for the human race.
The whole exercise is pointless and not worth getting dragged into. Nod quietly and stay away.
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We know nothing with 100% certainty, but we do know that roughly 0.5% of US adults identify as transgender. A 5 person apparent manel is almost certainly a manel.
Among younger Americans that may be as high as 3-5%. It's a spectrum that includes non-binary. Lots of causes for the increase but I suspect mutual support online among young people who suffer gender dysphoria is much of the reason.
Gender fluidity, like homosexuality, is not new, and unless you subscribe to a traditional "natural law" argument, is not un-natural. It is seen in primates and many cultures have had an acceptance of gender fluidity (see Polynesians, traditional Filipino, Indian).
This is wrong. You may identify as an athlete, when no-one else does. You may be 100% Caucasian, English speaking and with 2 European decent Puerto Rican parents and appropriately identify as Hispanic.
Let the trans people be trans and just be nice. The only threat they pose is that some subsets of trans people seem to be much smarter than the rest of us on average. (You can look up late transitioning MTF folks if you like). Almost certainly selection bias but if you need some trans anxiety look away.
Peace.
Given that the word "gender" was first used in 1955, I'm not sure I agree that it is an ancient concept.
My suspicion is that social contagion is what is pushing gender dysphoria to levels never previously seen in our society, not only due to support online.
"Let the trans people be trans and just be nice" I am completely on board with.
My suspicion is that social contagion is what is pushing gender dysphoria to levels never previously seen in our society, not only due to support online.
"Let the trans people be trans and just be nice" I am completely on board with.
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deleted1116990
I see. That is certainly a compelling argument; however, I suspect that if a muscular 6-foot-4 bearded male-to-female with white skin (you should not use the term Caucasian btw) but Puerto Rican parents were to commit a crime and police were to issue a be on the lookout for a Hispanic fema.... Wait hold on a second...
Ah!! You almost got me!
Actually, on second thought, yes I agree.
*Nods quietly and goes away*
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The language is problematic. There is certainly a biological sex binary (that is imperfect, see intersex people), and there are behaviors that are viewed as "typical" of a given sex in all cultures, including primate cultures. These "typical" behaviors vary and have always been broken by some portion of the population. In many cultures, people who chose to live outside of behavioral binary were accepted. Not so much in Judeo-Christian cultures to my knowledge.
Cultural perceptions of homosexuality vary widely and with those the apparent prevalence of homosexuality.
Maybe. I don't know. But it is a tough sell that coming out as trans, even today, is anything but a liability. What you are also seeing is more adults coming out as trans later in life. These folks will almost universally say that their gender dysphoria was present either in early childhood or adolescence. For folks in their 40s on up, that dysphoria undoubtedly preceded increased social acceptance.
Western cultures built on Judeo-Christian ideas of self are far more accepting of alternative behaviors than cultures built on other religious underpinnings.
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“I’m a man”
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Not trying to debate value of basic Judeo-Christian ideas or cultural superiority regarding various religious underpinnings.
This is my cultural background. To the extent that it has perpetuated multiple fruitful, secular and progressively liberal societies, I'll give it a high five.
Regarding my experience as a cultural Catholic, do I put any stock in this tradition to promote fair, liberal and more empowering for women sexual values? Absolutely not.
You may want to look up Iran's policies on transgender rights to see what I'm getting at. Very few Americans (myself included) look to Iran as an ideal for progressive values (quite the opposite). But, regarding their present policy on homosexuality, there is some acceptance of gender transition and essentially none for same sex relationships.
I suspect that there is just a lot of variability in human sexuality and gender identity, and as long as you don't violate issues of consent (why pedophilia and bestiality are so clearly wrong and so different from homosexuality) I have a hard time coming up with a moral argument to not be tolerant of diversity in both of these areas.
Regarding consent, this is most logical place to make arguments about the "wrongness" of certain sexual behaviors. We should not forget what the age of consent has been in most traditional cultures, including our own. Appallingly low.
I cannot believe that you brought up Iran as a progressive country when it comes to transgender rights. I am fully aware of the totalitarian, theocratic, dictatorial regime's "acceptance" of transgender rights. The "reason" transgenderism is somewhat accepted is because they absolutely forbid homosexual relationships, full stop.
Also, transgenderism isn't really accepted there.
Whatever the Catholic tradition did in the past or is doing now, it has led to marriage equality being the law of the land in many Catholic countries. Can one really say the same for other faiths?
Also, transgenderism isn't really accepted there.
Whatever the Catholic tradition did in the past or is doing now, it has led to marriage equality being the law of the land in many Catholic countries. Can one really say the same for other faiths?
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I didn't mean it in this way. What is pertinent is that there is a lot of variability regarding what is acceptable and that this is culturally determined. I would never reference Iran as progressive. But most Americans are more comfortable with homosexuality than with gender transition.
Look up when divorce became legal in Italy, in the Philippines, in the Vatican? (Answer: 1980, never, never)
These are not relative arguments. The point is not that Catholicism sucks. It is that our dominant cultural background (along with many others) is less tolerant of diversity of gender expression than some others and that rigidity regarding the correlation of gender expression and sexual identity is in fact a cultural construct.
If you want me to explicitly indict another religious tradition, go ahead and name one yourself. I am culturally Christian and very comfortable with self reflection and self criticism.
I certainly wouldn't argue that the Catholic church is politically progressive now, of course not. I do think, however, that the Judeo-Christian ideas about self-determination sowed the seeds for progressivism to eventually take hold.
"Rigidity of correlation of gender expression and sexual identity is in fact a cultural construct" - this is my entire problem with the concept of "gender". Essentially, "gender" the way we're all using it now essentially just describes how society thinks certain people should behave. Why does society even get a say in how an individual behaves? Why do we have to label someone's clothes/dress/behaviours "masculine" or "feminine"? Can't they just be human activities?
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Believe it or not, I think this is what some young people are going for. They are undermining the "gender binary".
Now, this does not mean that gender dysphoria is not real. Of course not. But, I do wonder if we lived in a culture without such strong gender binary messaging, if gender diverse folks would be less inclined to medically transition.
The messaging some Trans folks are getting (see Ricky Gervais) is that medical transitioning is what will make others comfortable with them.
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(pssst... he didn't mean THAT far East)
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People really don't like to change the way they think, act, or speak about other people in America (nor, I suspect, many places in this world). Trans folks will get there in my lifetime, I have no doubt, but it won't be anytime soon unfortunately. Acceptance will be really tough at first, with significant hateful and unreasoned push back and pearl clutching. But then it'll happen all at once.
Let this sink in.... 14 years ago a DEMOCRAT ran for president opposing same sex marriage. The movie Superbad came out at the same time. You watch THAT flick recently? Doesn't hold up all too well.
Plenty out there still trying to cling to United States of Abercrombie, but it's a futile battle they will and should lose.
In the meantime, keep your heads up my trans/gender fluid/non-binary friends, and please don't cancel me if (when) I screw up a pronoun. The rest of us are trying and learning as we go.
Let this sink in.... 14 years ago a DEMOCRAT ran for president opposing same sex marriage. The movie Superbad came out at the same time. You watch THAT flick recently? Doesn't hold up all too well.
Plenty out there still trying to cling to United States of Abercrombie, but it's a futile battle they will and should lose.
In the meantime, keep your heads up my trans/gender fluid/non-binary friends, and please don't cancel me if (when) I screw up a pronoun. The rest of us are trying and learning as we go.
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Is there any reasoned push back in this arena?
The only subtle push back that I would support is not against the trans movement, but against the intolerance of those who may take some time to get it. It’s understandable that language and policies need to change with the times… but I almost feel like some revel jumping down peoples throats when they don’t catch on right away.
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Agree. Don't forget prop 8 in California happened after the turn of the century too
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Somewhat controversial but I was thinking about changing my race to something that is more acceptable in the Deep South. It’s going to be a challenge since I’ve been a minority all my life, but for now on I’m identifying myself as a white male. I think by saying that, my credit score improved and my home value increased in value… life is good!
I’ll add a bonus and change my age to boomer and now I’m looking at a sweet chair position… life keeps getting better, pretty soon I can sexually harass people or is that opportunity over with these days?
I think this is the only place I can even post something like this, hence why I can never be on Twitter!
I’ll add a bonus and change my age to boomer and now I’m looking at a sweet chair position… life keeps getting better, pretty soon I can sexually harass people or is that opportunity over with these days?
I think this is the only place I can even post something like this, hence why I can never be on Twitter!
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I'll push back - Superbad was/is an awesome movie. Sorry I'm not sorry dwi
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deleted1111261
phenomenal movie
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