Debating if I should apply

[psychiatristoneday]

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hello,

I am defiantly not a traditional pre med student and I am debating if I should even bother applying. I am 30 years old and have 1 more year of undergrad left. By the time I complete my undergrad I will have been to three different universities off and on for 8 years. I know this previous statement alone should tell me I have no chance but, a girl can dream. When I first started school I was 23 and working in bars until 4 or 5 am. During this time I had a substance abuse problem. So, needless to say my grade were not stellar.

My grades:
General Biology: A-
General Biology: B
Genetics: A-
Evolution: A
Microbiology: B
General Chem/Lab I: B
General Chemistry II: C
General Chem Lab II: B+
Organic Chemistry : B+
Organic Chemistry IIb: A-
CMNS 200 div: B
Spec.Top./Computer & Info.Tech: A+
Education Psychology: A+
Intro to Reflective Practice: A+
Teaching Children and Youth: A
Introduction to Univ. Writing: A-
Foundations Acad. Literacy: B+
Analytical/Quant Reasoning: A
Origins Canada's First Peoples: A-
Geography 300 div: A+
Foundations of Health Sciene: A
Animal Virology: A+
The Ancient World: B
200 div B-Hum: B
Discrete Math I: B-
Calculus I: B
Calculus II: C+
Mathematics 100 div: A
Applied Linear Algebra: C+
Molec Biol Biochem 100 div: B
Molecular Biology and Biochem: A
Cellular Biology and Biochem: A
Biochemistry Laboratory: Withdrew (I planned my summer poorly, had no money and needed to withdraw so I could work instead of taking classes)
Molecular Biology: A-
Physics for Life Sciences II: B+
Mechanics and Modern Physics: C+
Physics for Life Sciences Lab: A-
Political Science 400 : C+
Spanish 100 div: C
Introduction to Statistics: A+
Introduction to Statistics: F
STAT Experiment/Observational Data: B+

I will graduate with a Bsc with a minor in education focusing in developmental and learning disabilities.

Any of the courses I have done poorly in were completed in the beginning of my university career so there is an upward trend in my grades. Since quitting partying and bartending all of my grades have been in the A range. I will have over a years worth of extra credits by the time I am done school because I have been unsure of my career path and thus have flipflopped between many different majors. I assume this will be frowned upon. There are 10 more courses I will complete next year in which I assume I will obtain mostly A's and perhaps one or two B+. I have taken only 3 or 4 courses a term because of work and other commitments so I know there will only be a limited number of school that would even look at my application. However, next year I will be taking 5 courses a semester.

As for work:
-worked at a couple inner city nonprofit summer camps- one of which I was a tutor at
-child care in an after school care program
-tutor for a young man with cerebral palsy
-paid nanny for my sister- i know this wouldn't do much for me
-bartender- i know this also wouldn't do much for me

Volunteer:
-volunteered with a young man who had schizophrenia- we would hang out, go for walks or get coffee
-volunteered teaching lower income kids science experiments
-volunteered mentoring university students with autism

I have two years until I would apply to med school. So, I would also have one more job to add and probably another volunteer experience. The volunteer experience will hopefully be in a psychiatric unit or some sort of mental health setting and I assume the job would probably working with children in some capacity.

I would love to be a child and adolescent psychiatrist but I feel like this a pipe dream given my history. I am hoping someone who knows what they are talking about could provide me with some clarity. Any advice would much appreciated!

If I don't apply to med school I will complete a counseling psychology MA and do therapy with children and families so life won't be all bad. I'm looking to see if I should just stick on the MA path or if anyone thinks I have even a slim chance.

Thanks so much!

 

[Eccesignum]

hello,

I am defiantly not a traditional pre med student and I am debating if I should even bother applying. I am 30 years old and have 1 more year of undergrad left. By the time I complete my undergrad I will have been to three different universities off and on for 8 years. I know this previous statement alone should tell me I have no chance but, a girl can dream.

I'm older than you and took 18 years total to get a bachelor's, with seven transcripts along the way. This isn't your major issue.

When I first started school I was 23 and working in bars until 4 or 5 am. During this time I had a substance abuse problem.

This, on the other hand, might be. You haven't said much and we don't know the extent of the problem, but you do need to know that if you have anything on your record (especially convictions or other legal action) concerning this then this could be a huge problem.

So, needless to say my grade were not stellar.

My grades:
General Biology: A-
General Biology: B
Genetics: A-
Evolution: A
Microbiology: B
General Chem/Lab I: B
General Chemistry II: C
General Chem Lab II: B+
Organic Chemistry : B+
Organic Chemistry IIb: A-
CMNS 200 div: B
Spec.Top./Computer & Info.Tech: A+
Education Psychology: A+
Intro to Reflective Practice: A+
Teaching Children and Youth: A
Introduction to Univ. Writing: A-
Foundations Acad. Literacy: B+
Analytical/Quant Reasoning: A
Origins Canada's First Peoples: A-
Geography 300 div: A+
Foundations of Health Sciene: A
Animal Virology: A+
The Ancient World: B
200 div B-Hum: B
Discrete Math I: B-
Calculus I: B
Calculus II: C+
Mathematics 100 div: B
Mathematics 100 div: C+
Mathematics 100 div: A
Applied Linear Algebra: C+
Molec Biol Biochem 100 div: B
Molecular Biology and Biochem: A
Cellular Biology and Biochem: A
Biochemistry Laboratory: Withdrew (I planned my summer poorly, had no money and needed to withdraw so I could work instead of taking classes)
Molecular Biology: A-
Physics for Life Sciences II: B+
Mechanics and Modern Physics: C+
Physics for Life Sciences Lab: A-
Political Science 400 : C+
Spanish 100 div: C
Introduction to Statistics: A+
Introduction to Statistics: F
STAT Experiment/Observational Data: B+


I will graduate with a Bsc with a minor in education focusing in developmental and learning disabilities.

Any of the courses I have done poorly in were completed in the beginning of my university career so there is an upward trend in my grades. Since quitting partying and bartending all of my grades have been in the A range. I will have over a years worth of extra credits by the time I am done school because I have been unsure of my career path and thus have flipflopped between many different majors. I assume this will be frowned upon. There are 10 more courses I will complete next year in which I assume I will obtain mostly A's and perhaps one or two B+. I have taken only 3 or 4 courses a term because of work and other commitments so I know there will only be a limited number of school that would even look at my application. However, next year I will be taking 5 courses a semester.

Nobody will see that you changed majors.

You need consolidate this giant list of grades and get your overall cGPA and sGPA (don't divide them up by institution; AMCAS/AACOMAS will not). I'll attach a spreadsheet at the end of this that will help you. You need to assess how close you are to average matriculant stats in both. If you're under 3.0 at application time, you would automatically be screened out at the vast majority of schools.

An upward trend is good but it looks like you've already taken many of the medical school pre-reqs and gotten lackluster grades in many of them. That isn't going to help your case. Even if you did the smartest academic thing, which would be to take as many upper-division, rigorous hard science courses as possible and get straight As in all of them from here on out, you will have 'meh' grades in the courses that mean the most. I don't know what your overall GPA is, but if it's below average then MD is going to be a tough road.

Have you considered DO? DO schools practice grade replacement, which means that you can go back and retake any course you did poorly in (most folks retake C or below), and they'll only consider the more recent grade. This is a good thing for many people in your type of situation, as you can retake those critical classes and anything else that's holding your GPA down.

As for work:
-worked at a couple inner city nonprofit summer camps- one of which I was a tutor at
-child care in an after school care program
-tutor for a young man with cerebral palsy
-paid nanny for my sister- i know this wouldn't do much for me
-bartender- i know this also wouldn't do much for me

Volunteer:
-volunteered with a young man who had schizophrenia- we would hang out, go for walks or get coffee
-volunteered teaching lower income kids science experiments
-volunteered mentoring university students with autism

It doesn't sound like you've had any clinical experience. That's critical to gain at least some exposure to healthcare. You need this, whether paid or volunteer. You're also lacking physician shadowing, which is important because adcoms will want to see that you understand (at least on surface level) what you're getting into.

I have two years until I would apply to med school.

No, if you're actually dedicated then you have as long as it takes. Particularly if you go the grade replacement route, expect that it'll take longer than you might think. Don't ever rush a medical school application, particularly if you're coming from a poor starting place. Commit to building a strong application, not to the timeframe.

I would love to be a child and adolescent psychiatrist but I feel like this a pipe dream given my history. I am hoping someone who knows what they are talking about could provide me with some clarity. Any advice would much appreciated!

Without critical bits of information (MCAT score, that detail I mentioned about the substance abuse issue, GPAs, state of residence) nobody can give you a real prediction. Assuming you have no record regarding the substance abuse and have adequately considered ways in which easy access to pharmaceuticals might impact future training and practice, then the DO grade replacement route is likely your best way of dealing with the academic issues.

If I don't apply to med school I will complete a counseling psychology MA and do therapy with children and families so life won't be all bad. I'm looking to see if I should just stick on the MA path or if anyone thinks I have even a slim chance.

I'd encourage you to understand that this is going to be a long road of academic repair, and even if you destroy that that there's still the MCAT, and even if you ace that 60% of applicants in a given year, despite spending thousands of dollars on an application cycle, will not make it into medical school. For some people this is an acceptable risk, because there's simply nothing else they could imagine doing. For some it isn't, because there is something else they could be happy with -- if you're in this camp I strongly encourage you to consider doing that something else. If you're not, then just understand it is a risk, and a much higher one for people starting off from behind. In the end it has to be your decision.

Good luck to you.

 

[DrMikeP]

Often people go into psychiatry thinking it is VERY different than what it really is. I've seen and trained many disillusioned psychology and psychiatry students and residents. I strongly urge you to get a job in a psych unit as a psych tech in a public hospital so you can see what it is really like. Often it's little more than 5 minute med management. I've heard a million times how someone wants to do differently but with debts you have to pay the bills. You can become a physician, but the road will be hard. Consider a DO, as that will be the shortest path with grade replacement and quite a few do psychiatrists are out there with DOs.

If you decide to go the psychology route then understand that a master's in psychology is almost worthless in many states if you want to be a counselor. You would pursue a master's in mental health counseling which is a terminal degree or a doctorate in clinical or counseling psych.

I'd be happy to answer any psych questions you have. Best of luck!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[psychiatristoneday]

I'm older than you and took 18 years total to get a bachelor's, with seven transcripts along the way. This isn't your major issue.



This, on the other hand, might be. You haven't said much and we don't know the extent of the problem, but you do need to know that if you have anything on your record (especially convictions or other legal action) concerning this then this could be a huge problem.



Nobody will see that you changed majors.

You need consolidate this giant list of grades and get your overall cGPA and sGPA (don't divide them up by institution; AMCAS/AACOMAS will not). I'll attach a spreadsheet at the end of this that will help you. You need to assess how close you are to average matriculant stats in both. If you're under 3.0 at application time, you would automatically be screened out at the vast majority of schools.

An upward trend is good but it looks like you've already taken many of the medical school pre-reqs and gotten lackluster grades in many of them. That isn't going to help your case. Even if you did the smartest academic thing, which would be to take as many upper-division, rigorous hard science courses as possible and get straight As in all of them from here on out, you will have 'meh' grades in the courses that mean the most. I don't know what your overall GPA is, but if it's below average then MD is going to be a tough road.

Have you considered DO? DO schools practice grade replacement, which means that you can go back and retake any course you did poorly in (most folks retake C or below), and they'll only consider the more recent grade. This is a good thing for many people in your type of situation, as you can retake those critical classes and anything else that's holding your GPA down.



It doesn't sound like you've had any clinical experience. That's critical to gain at least some exposure to healthcare. You need this, whether paid or volunteer. You're also lacking physician shadowing, which is important because adcoms will want to see that you understand (at least on surface level) what you're getting into.



No, if you're actually dedicated then you have as long as it takes. Particularly if you go the grade replacement route, expect that it'll take longer than you might think. Don't ever rush a medical school application, particularly if you're coming from a poor starting place. Commit to building a strong application, not to the timeframe.



Without critical bits of information (MCAT score, that detail I mentioned about the substance abuse issue, GPAs, state of residence) nobody can give you a real prediction. Assuming you have no record regarding the substance abuse and have adequately considered ways in which easy access to pharmaceuticals might impact future training and practice, then the DO grade replacement route is likely your best way of dealing with the academic issues.



I'd encourage you to understand that this is going to be a long road of academic repair, and even if you destroy that that there's still the MCAT, and even if you ace that 60% of applicants in a given year, despite spending thousands of dollars on an application cycle, will not make it into medical school. For some people this is an acceptable risk, because there's simply nothing else they could imagine doing. For some it isn't, because there is something else they could be happy with -- if you're in this camp I strongly encourage you to consider doing that something else. If you're not, then just understand it is a risk, and a much higher one for people starting off from behind. In the end it has to be your decision.

Good luck to you.

I'm older than you and took 18 years total to get a bachelor's, with seven transcripts along the way. This isn't your major issue.



This, on the other hand, might be. You haven't said much and we don't know the extent of the problem, but you do need to know that if you have anything on your record (especially convictions or other legal action) concerning this then this could be a huge problem.



Nobody will see that you changed majors.

You need consolidate this giant list of grades and get your overall cGPA and sGPA (don't divide them up by institution; AMCAS/AACOMAS will not). I'll attach a spreadsheet at the end of this that will help you. You need to assess how close you are to average matriculant stats in both. If you're under 3.0 at application time, you would automatically be screened out at the vast majority of schools.

An upward trend is good but it looks like you've already taken many of the medical school pre-reqs and gotten lackluster grades in many of them. That isn't going to help your case. Even if you did the smartest academic thing, which would be to take as many upper-division, rigorous hard science courses as possible and get straight As in all of them from here on out, you will have 'meh' grades in the courses that mean the most. I don't know what your overall GPA is, but if it's below average then MD is going to be a tough road.

Have you considered DO? DO schools practice grade replacement, which means that you can go back and retake any course you did poorly in (most folks retake C or below), and they'll only consider the more recent grade. This is a good thing for many people in your type of situation, as you can retake those critical classes and anything else that's holding your GPA down.



It doesn't sound like you've had any clinical experience. That's critical to gain at least some exposure to healthcare. You need this, whether paid or volunteer. You're also lacking physician shadowing, which is important because adcoms will want to see that you understand (at least on surface level) what you're getting into.



No, if you're actually dedicated then you have as long as it takes. Particularly if you go the grade replacement route, expect that it'll take longer than you might think. Don't ever rush a medical school application, particularly if you're coming from a poor starting place. Commit to building a strong application, not to the timeframe.



Without critical bits of information (MCAT score, that detail I mentioned about the substance abuse issue, GPAs, state of residence) nobody can give you a real prediction. Assuming you have no record regarding the substance abuse and have adequately considered ways in which easy access to pharmaceuticals might impact future training and practice, then the DO grade replacement route is likely your best way of dealing with the academic issues.



I'd encourage you to understand that this is going to be a long road of academic repair, and even if you destroy that that there's still the MCAT, and even if you ace that 60% of applicants in a given year, despite spending thousands of dollars on an application cycle, will not make it into medical school. For some people this is an acceptable risk, because there's simply nothing else they could imagine doing. For some it isn't, because there is something else they could be happy with -- if you're in this camp I strongly encourage you to consider doing that something else. If you're not, then just understand it is a risk, and a much higher one for people starting off from behind. In the end it has to be your decision.

Good luck to you.

Thank you! I don't have a record. I used to drink a lot but that was about 5 years ago. My mother was a bit mental abusive when I was growing up and I was always the "dumb" one of her children. She was convinced I had learning problems but never took me to see anyone anout it. As you can imagine I had some confidence issues especially academically and I think I used to almost do poorly on purpose. I would go into the final with an A and bomb it. I used to self medicate with alcohol and partying. Anyway, I have dealt with most of my issues and Im defiantly a lot more confident. Thanks so much for your answer. It's given me a lot to think about.

My step Dad's friend is a psychiatrist so I'm going to see if he will have a chat with me about volunteering or work and I'm going to do the MCAT next year. I assume I will do fine as long as I sufficiently study, but only time will tell. As for state, I should have mentioned I live in Canada. We don't have many medical schools so I believe it's even harder to get in up here. But, I can always apply to the states. I assume that route makes me a more unlikely candidate too. Ha!

Again, thanks so much for your response.

 

[Goro]

You apply when you have the best possible app. It will make it much easier to advise you if you can condense the Niagara of text into a simple sGPA/cGPA.

hello,

I am defiantly not a traditional pre med student and I am debating if I should even bother applying. I am 30 years old and have 1 more year of undergrad left. By the time I complete my undergrad I will have been to three different universities off and on for 8 years. I know this previous statement alone should tell me I have no chance but, a girl can dream. When I first started school I was 23 and working in bars until 4 or 5 am. During this time I had a substance abuse problem. So, needless to say my grade were not stellar.

 

[DrMikeP]

Thank you! I don't have a record. I used to drink a lot but that was about 5 years ago. My mother was a bit mental abusive when I was growing up and I was always the "dumb" one of her children. She was convinced I had learning problems but never took me to see anyone anout it. As you can imagine I had some confidence issues especially academically and I think I used to almost do poorly on purpose. I would go into the final with an A and bomb it. I used to self medicate with alcohol and partying. Anyway, I have dealt with most of my issues and Im defiantly a lot more confident. Thanks so much for your answer. It's given me a lot to think about.

My step Dad's friend is a psychiatrist so I'm going to see if he will have a chat with me about volunteering or work and I'm going to do the MCAT next year. I assume I will do fine as long as I sufficiently study, but only time will tell. As for state, I should have mentioned I live in Canada. We don't have many medical schools so I believe it's even harder to get in up here. But, I can always apply to the states. I assume that route makes me a more unlikely candidate too. Ha!

Again, thanks so much for your response.

Have you ever been tested for learning problems? If not then get such done, as there are supports for people with such issues and people with learning problems that haven't been dealt with often are ones who don't make it through med school. No use in adding another barrier that you don't have to.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[psychiatristoneday]

Often people go into psychiatry thinking it is VERY different than what it really is. I've seen and trained many disillusioned psychology and psychiatry students and residents. I strongly urge you to get a job in a psych unit as a psych tech in a public hospital so you can see what it is really like. Often it's little more than 5 minute med management. I've heard a million times how someone wants to do differently but with debts you have to pay the bills. You can become a physician, but the road will be hard. Consider a DO, as that will be the shortest path with grade replacement and quite a few do psychiatrists are out there with DOs.

If you decide to go the psychology route then understand that a master's in psychology is almost worthless in many states if you want to be a counselor. You would pursue a master's in mental health counseling which is a terminal degree or a doctorate in clinical or counseling psych.

I'd be happy to answer any psych questions you have. Best of luck!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Have you ever been tested for learning problems? If not then get such done, as there are supports for people with such issues and people with learning problems that haven't been dealt with often are ones who don't make it through med school. No use in adding another barrier that you don't have to.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

No I haven't. I was different than my sisters and mom when I was little. I wasn't loud like them and I was very creative and imaginative. I used to draw, paint and tell stories. I think my mother took this to mean there was something wrong with me. My father also favoured me because I was a tomboy and I think this put my mom off. My report cards indicate that I actually did quite well in school and I think her accusations were more about her than me. She was very stressed out because she had 6 kids to look after and I think she deals with some undiagnosed mental health problems herself. That being said, her words defiantly cut me deep and I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about talking to someone about it before. Perhaps getting tested would help me put all that stuff even further behind me. Appolgies, I'm probably totally over sharing with personal stuff on here. I guess there is something cathartic about writing on an anonymous forum. Ha! Anyway, I think you have a point. So in short, yes I should probably get checked just to make sure.

 

[psychiatristoneday]

I'm older than you and took 18 years total to get a bachelor's, with seven transcripts along the way. This isn't your major issue.



This, on the other hand, might be. You haven't said much and we don't know the extent of the problem, but you do need to know that if you have anything on your record (especially convictions or other legal action) concerning this then this could be a huge problem.



Nobody will see that you changed majors.

You need consolidate this giant list of grades and get your overall cGPA and sGPA (don't divide them up by institution; AMCAS/AACOMAS will not). I'll attach a spreadsheet at the end of this that will help you. You need to assess how close you are to average matriculant stats in both. If you're under 3.0 at application time, you would automatically be screened out at the vast majority of schools.

An upward trend is good but it looks like you've already taken many of the medical school pre-reqs and gotten lackluster grades in many of them. That isn't going to help your case. Even if you did the smartest academic thing, which would be to take as many upper-division, rigorous hard science courses as possible and get straight As in all of them from here on out, you will have 'meh' grades in the courses that mean the most. I don't know what your overall GPA is, but if it's below average then MD is going to be a tough road.

Have you considered DO? DO schools practice grade replacement, which means that you can go back and retake any course you did poorly in (most folks retake C or below), and they'll only consider the more recent grade. This is a good thing for many people in your type of situation, as you can retake those critical classes and anything else that's holding your GPA down.



It doesn't sound like you've had any clinical experience. That's critical to gain at least some exposure to healthcare. You need this, whether paid or volunteer. You're also lacking physician shadowing, which is important because adcoms will want to see that you understand (at least on surface level) what you're getting into.



No, if you're actually dedicated then you have as long as it takes. Particularly if you go the grade replacement route, expect that it'll take longer than you might think. Don't ever rush a medical school application, particularly if you're coming from a poor starting place. Commit to building a strong application, not to the timeframe.



Without critical bits of information (MCAT score, that detail I mentioned about the substance abuse issue, GPAs, state of residence) nobody can give you a real prediction. Assuming you have no record regarding the substance abuse and have adequately considered ways in which easy access to pharmaceuticals might impact future training and practice, then the DO grade replacement route is likely your best way of dealing with the academic issues.



I'd encourage you to understand that this is going to be a long road of academic repair, and even if you destroy that that there's still the MCAT, and even if you ace that 60% of applicants in a given year, despite spending thousands of dollars on an application cycle, will not make it into medical school. For some people this is an acceptable risk, because there's simply nothing else they could imagine doing. For some it isn't, because there is something else they could be happy with -- if you're in this camp I strongly encourage you to consider doing that something else. If you're not, then just understand it is a risk, and a much higher one for people starting off from behind. In the end it has to be your decision.

Good luck to you.

Just wanted to thank you again. I used that excel sheet you attached. It was really helpful. I have a 3.8 gpa at my current school so I guess I was a bit disillusioned about where I was actually at in terms of GPA. I have never put all my undergraduate class together in one place. I have a 3.3 cgpa. I had no idea it was that low 🙁 Defiantly puts things into perspective for me and how much work it would take to try and fix things.

 

[Eccesignum]

Just wanted to thank you again. I used that excel sheet you attached. It was really helpful. I have a 3.8 gpa at my current school so I guess I was a bit disillusioned about where I was actually at in terms of GPA. I have never put all my undergraduate class together in one place. I have a 3.3 cgpa. I had no idea it was that low 🙁 Defiantly puts things into perspective for me and how much work it would take to try and fix things.

Now if you replace Cs or below in repeatable courses with As, that in theory will be your AACOMAS GPA if you retook said courses and applied DO.

Yes, that will be a significant investment of time, and still for an uncertain outcome. But it's probably your best chance if you do decide to do this. Best of luck.

 

[Bamma]

No I haven't. I was different than my sisters and mom when I was little. I wasn't loud like them and I was very creative and imaginative. I used to draw, paint and tell stories. I think my mother took this to mean there was something wrong with me. My father also favoured me because I was a tomboy and I think this put my mom off. My report cards indicate that I actually did quite well in school and I think her accusations were more about her than me. She was very stressed out because she had 6 kids to look after and I think she deals with some undiagnosed mental health problems herself. That being said, her words defiantly cut me deep and I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about talking to someone about it before. Perhaps getting tested would help me put all that stuff even further behind me. Appolgies, I'm probably totally over sharing with personal stuff on here. I guess there is something cathartic about writing on an anonymous forum. Ha! Anyway, I think you have a point. So in short, yes I should probably get checked just to make sure.

Thank you for this- I am so way late to this party but I hope you see this. I come from a long line of uneducated folks, and my mom's number one dreams for me were Artist or CEO-but really, havin babies. No joke, the only thing she gets excited about is Me. Having. Babies. Apparently being a bartender (which I am also) is supposed to be perfectly fulfilling career (and I too experienced substance abuse issues and severe depression as a result of constant degradation at the hands of my mother).

I believe someone earlier made a comment along the lines of it taking as long as it has to to make it. I truly hope this hit you square in the brain and hasn't left. You are clearly intelligent- and whatever deficits you have can be made up. You can have a shot! Just don't give up. Do it for the nontrads 🙂