Dentistry in Alaska?

[OrinScrivello]

I have heard that there are many government programs and incentives to get dentists to Alaska. Anyone here know more about these programs, or dentistry in Alaska in general?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[molarama]

I have heard that there are many government programs and incentives to get dentists to Alaska. Anyone here know more about these programs, or dentistry in Alaska in general?

Sorry don't know the details. All is know is someone the year b/f me went up there are received a great incentives package including loan repayment. Found it quite rewarding as well. There is a huge need for dentists in Alaska and surrounding territories. I think in the very near future there will be a huge push to encourage young dentists into academia, research, public health and working in underserved areas. Best thing to do is ask at your school (restorative depts, public health, etc)

 

[makushin]

..

 

[Do You Endo]

i wouldnt go to alaska, the only people there are eskimos and americans fleeing for drug and other arrest warrants

 

[OrinScrivello]

I'm from Alaska, any special programs are likely recruiting for rural "bush" Alaska dentists. I personaly would not do it. It sucks out there, I speak from experience.

Are they expecting these "bush" dentists to live and work full-time out in BFE? Or is this something where you would live in a larger city and then make scheduled trips to a remote location?

I've never been to Alaska, but the isolation and the wildness of it very much interests me.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

I'm from Alaska, any special programs are likely recruiting for rural "bush" Alaska dentists. 2 points to consider: They just made it so "dental therapists" (not real dentists) can perform extractions and fillings in the villages, and the villages are pretty much third world, so you better know what you're getting into before considering living out there. I personaly would not do it. It sucks out there, I speak from experience.

Hello,

What is the offering salary? Heck, for a single guy like me who likes adventure, money talks! DP

 

[molarama]

I'm from Alaska, any special programs are likely recruiting for rural "bush" Alaska dentists. 2 points to consider: They just made it so "dental therapists" (not real dentists) can perform extractions and fillings in the villages, and the villages are pretty much third world, so you better know what you're getting into before considering living out there. I personaly would not do it. It sucks out there, I speak from experience.

True, the incentive programs are in the more rural areas. The dental therapist issue is controversial, and is being rightly challenged by the ADA in court. Hopefully it won't go through.

 

[OrinScrivello]

True, the incentive programs are in the more rural areas. The dental therapist issue is controversial, and is being rightly challenged by the ADA in court. Hopefully it won't go through.

I think dentists who want to dispute the legitimacy of "dental therapists" have about as much ground to stand on as physicians who don't think paramedics should exist. It's all about one's rice bowl. Dentists need to be careful, lest they arouse a public backlash against their perceived greed.

 

[martinelli]

Hello,

What is the offering salary? Heck, for a single guy like me who likes adventure, money talks! DP

Hi,

I can't believe I ran into this post online. I JUST heard this story on NPR Here's the link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5186063

I believe the compensation package is around $180,000. Not bad.

 

[toofache32]

It's called Indian Health Services. Just Google it. I considered it seriously for a while. The pay is low, but the benefits are unbeatable. They have great loan-repayment programs. You have military/government benifits without the commitment....you can quit any time. The money isn't that great, but most people don't move to Alaska for money anyway.

 

[BigBottomGirl]

I think dentists who want to dispute the legitimacy of "dental therapists" have about as much ground to stand on as physicians who don't think paramedics should exist. It's all about one's rice bowl. Dentists need to be careful, lest they arouse a public backlash against their perceived greed.

what are you talking about? Ive never heard of the idea of dental therapists but if the above post is correct and they are being licensed to pull teeth and drill and fill with minimal training, then why have dentists at all? This has nothing to do with greed but standard of care.

 

[MyAegdSUX]

I would love to be stuck in the alaskan bush with bigbottom girl.

 

[OrinScrivello]

what are you talking about? Ive never heard of the idea of dental therapists but if the above post is correct and they are being licensed to pull teeth and drill and fill with minimal training, then why have dentists at all? This has nothing to do with greed but standard of care.

Simple extractions and amalgams do not require four years of dental school, and certainly don't require and knowledge of organic chemistry, biochem, physics, yadda yadda yadda...

While I do not know the specifics of how these dental therapists are trained and regulated, I support the basic premise. I find it somewhat hypocritical of the dental community to espouse ad nauseum their commitment to improving access to care for the poor/tired/huddled masses/etc., while at the same time lashing out at a program that, positive-results-be-damned, threatens their hegemony.

 

[BigBottomGirl]

Simple extractions and amalgams do not require four years of dental school, and certainly don't require and knowledge of organic chemistry, biochem, physics, yadda yadda yadda...

While I do not know the specifics of how these dental therapists are trained and regulated, I support the basic premise. I find it somewhat hypocritical of the dental community to espouse ad nauseum their commitment to improving access to care for the poor/tired/huddled masses/etc., while at the same time lashing out at a program that, positive-results-be-damned, threatens their hegemony.

Arent you full of attitude! Its the weekend, chill out...

 

[12YearOldKid]

I think dentists who want to dispute the legitimacy of "dental therapists" have about as much ground to stand on as physicians who don't think paramedics should exist. It's all about one's rice bowl. Dentists need to be careful, lest they arouse a public backlash against their perceived greed.

I'm not sure where you're coming from. There is no analogy to be made there.

 

[12YearOldKid]

Simple extractions and amalgams do not require four years of dental school

I'm assuming you're either not in dental school yet or just haven't been in clinic long enough to have any experience. If you had done these things you would know that what you are saying is total crap. Class II directs can be some of the hardest and most difficult procedures a dentist can do. There are plenty of grads who make it through four years of dental school who are hardly competent to provide bread and butter dentistry. Cutting the educational requirements is a disservice to the public. If anything we should be moving toward MORE education, not less.

And what exactly constitutes a "simple" extraction? We have all begun "simple" extractions where we ended up laying a flap, sectioning the tooth and troughing bone. Are you suggesting this can or should be taught in a vo-tech setting?

There are plenty of dentists to go around.

 

[makushin]

.

 

[OrinScrivello]

I'm assuming you're either not in dental school yet or just haven't been in clinic long enough to have any experience. If you had done these things you would know that what you are saying is total crap. Class II directs can be some of the hardest and most difficult procedures a dentist can do. There are plenty of grads who make it through four years of dental school who are hardly competent to provide bread and butter dentistry. Cutting the educational requirements is a disservice to the public. If anything we should be moving toward MORE education, not less.

And what exactly constitutes a "simple" extraction? We have all begun "simple" extractions where we ended up laying a flap, sectioning the tooth and troughing bone. Are you suggesting this can or should be taught in a vo-tech setting?

There are plenty of dentists to go around.

1. Why are new dentists "hardly competent to provide bread and butter dentistry"????? Could it be that most spend half (i.e., the first two years) of their dental school experience with almost no clinical training? Shouldn't bread and butter dentistry be the very first thing at which all graduating dentists are proficient?

2. I'm suggesting that basic amalgams and extractions can be taught to people without requiring them to undergo four years of doctoral-level curriculum. If you call that vo-tech, then fine.

3. If, as you say, there are plenty of dentists to go around, then why are there shortages in rural areas? If the idea of dental therapists is "total crap," then why would Alaska institute such a program? Could it be that the dental profession, on the whole, gives more lip service to improving access to care in "underserved communities" than individual dentists are willing to make happen by taking a pay cut and/or lifestyle change? In a free-market society, if there is a demand for a service, and the status quo service providers are unable (or more likely, unwilling) to meet that demand, then the market will reveal new avenues for filling ( , punny) that demand. To the outside observer, dentists are on the verge of making a mockery of their profession in a manner similar to the overpaid, unionized American automotive workers. The auto workers appealed to "nobler" causes such as patriotism and protecting the American economy as reasons for you to buy their P.O.S. cars, when in actuality they just didn't want to do the quality work and/or take the pay cut necessary to yield a product that met the consumer demand. They had become primadonnas.
This may seem like a really strained metaphor; but mark my words, if dentistry isn't careful, there will be a public backlash. Why do you think it is now much harder to get into dental school than med school? The word has gotten out that dentistry is more lucrative and much tidier than medicine. For dentists to stand in the way of a population's receiving improved dental care, especially when the dentists themselves have shown their unwillingness to meet that need, is just asking for trouble. The truly smart dentists, who want to continue living the Life of Riley, will encourage the dental therapist vocation and get them to do the "dirty work" in all the god-forsaken areas where the roads are too unimproved to drive a Porsche. The way that dentistry can turn this crisis into opportunity, to overuse the Chinese idiographic metaphor, is to demonstrate to the public that dental health for all citizens is improving by leaps and bounds, hence justifying the mackadocious lifestyle that many in the public associate with dentistry.

 

[rocknightmare]

are you asking to wipe basic science out of first 2 years of curriclum??

 

[OrinScrivello]

are you asking to wipe basic science out of first 2 years of curriclum??

<sigh>

This is so frustrating.

 

[JavadiCavity]

I think dentists who want to dispute the legitimacy of "dental therapists" have about as much ground to stand on as physicians who don't think paramedics should exist. It's all about one's rice bowl. Dentists need to be careful, lest they arouse a public backlash against their perceived greed.

Wow, I think you'd change your mind if you studied the issue a little bit more. For one, the idea that the government says it is alright for a poor and underserved area to recieve sub-par dental care smacks of discrimination. That's like saying folks in Detroit (a poor area with terrible access to care) should be treated by a high school football team's trainer. That's only for starters. Look into it some more....I've got run out the door to a meeting, but I had to jump into this discussion. I'm interested in what others have to say.

 

[Jess_SB]

Just a few points, because I don't want to get pulled into this....

There are currently 200+ ADA dentists who have committed to volunteer 2 weeks - 1 month in Alaska to help out with the situation up there, but Alaska refuses to recognize licensure from other states. However, they instead choose to recognize these undertrained and completely unqualified dental therapists.

This recent legislation is only possible because the native people are considered part of a sovereign nation and the Dental Act did not cover them. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with setting up two standards of care; only if you're rich or non-native are you able to afford what the US gov't and ADA has already agreed is the proper dental care. There are already multiple malpractice lawsuits underway.

Currently students at my school are trying to start a dental mission to Alaska, but needless to say, there is a lot of red tape to get through.

It will be interesting to see how this develops....

 

[OrinScrivello]

The mantra of "standard of care" is a two-edged sword. Sure, ceteris paribus, a high and uniform standard of care is preferable to a lower or inconsistent one. But individuals and groups of individuals have the right to accept whatever standard of care they feel necessary and sufficient without the paternalistic diktat of a group of people (dentists) who stand to benefit personally from such interference. Preventing people from finding the solutions to their own problems in this way is akin to bulldozing the favelas outside Rio de Janeiro because they aren't built to code and thus represent a safety hazard. Maybe they aren't, but at least they keep the rain off thousands of people who would otherwise be homeless.

OK, this thread has gotten way off-topic.

I would like to know any specifics about programs and incentives to get dentists (DDS/DMDs) to Alaska. Benefits, pay, obligations, etc.

But since someone brought this up: does Alaska have its own unique state board exam, or do they participate in some sort of regional board?

 

[molarama]

The mantra of "standard of care" is a two-edged sword. Sure, ceteris paribus, a high and uniform standard of care is preferable to a lower or inconsistent one. But individuals and groups of individuals have the right to accept whatever standard of care they feel necessary and sufficient without the paternalistic diktat of a group of people (dentists) who stand to benefit personally from such interference. Preventing people from finding the solutions to their own problems in this way is akin to bulldozing the favelas outside Rio de Janeiro because they aren't built to code and thus represent a safety hazard. Maybe they aren't, but at least they keep the rain off thousands of people who would otherwise be homeless.

OK, this thread has gotten way off-topic.

I would like to know any specifics about programs and incentives to get dentists (DDS/DMDs) to Alaska. Benefits, pay, obligations, etc.

But since someone brought this up: does Alaska have its own unique state board exam, or do they participate in some sort of regional board?

I've also heard that the red tape involved was ridiculous. This whole regional board, state to state licensure thing is archaic. My mentor in dental school (ny), after retiring, wanted to work 1day/week in rural PA, where there's a 2 year wait-list of patients, yet couldn't due to bs state licensure rules. Organized dentistry must step up and eliminate this licensure problem.

Organized dentistry has done well when it comes to smoking cessation and pro-fluoridation, but programs such as sealants saturdays and give kids a smile day is not the solution in treating the underserved.

The solution will be a joint venture - firstly the state must commit to reimbursing dentists at a reasonable rate (i.e. not reimbursing a year later for work done, at a lousy rate - no one can run a business like that). The state doesn't delay a year in paying an MD for billings, shouldn't do for dentists either. Secondly, a diverse workforce of dentists - those from underserved areas are likely to go back. I also have a sense of disdain for these cosmetic "guru's" that a lot of dental school applicants seem to look up to. Additionally, some schools seem to promote elective cosmetic work a little too much. Not enough of a push and incentive program for those who want to work in underserved areas. Many who are not from underserved areas, such as myself, would work in such areas if the conditions are reasonable.

I recall reading an article in either ADA or AGD journal showing in 2 states (i believe Iowa or ohio was one of them) after medicaid dental reimb. system was revamped and computerized, the underserved care was virtually eliminated. I'll look for it.
ok, I just realized that my entire post has nothing to do with Alaska specifically.

 

[molarama]

I think dentists who want to dispute the legitimacy of "dental therapists" have about as much ground to stand on as physicians who don't think paramedics should exist. It's all about one's rice bowl. Dentists need to be careful, lest they arouse a public backlash against their perceived greed.

The paramedics analogy is like comparing apples and roast beef. How can you expect the ADA to endorse therapists, it'll only take a couple days before roots are pushed into the sinus on these "simple" extractions, and countless other problems worsen. oh how the malpractice lawyers will be flocking to Alaska!!! I agree with the important role of dental auxillaries, but only under supervision. I agree that the dental profession wastes too much time and energy on turf wars (see my above post on state licensure), but this is absolutely not the case. It's a matter of providing rural Alaskans with standardized, competent care. There's got to be a better way. I think cutting red tape in terms of volunteer dentists is the best option now, followed by training individuals from that part of the country, who are most likely to go back.

 

[OrinScrivello]

The paramedics analogy is like comparing apples and roast beef. How can you expect the ADA to endorse therapists, it'll only take a couple days before roots are pushed into the sinus on these "simple" extractions, and countless other problems worsen. oh how the malpractice lawyers will be flocking to Alaska!!! I agree with the important role of dental auxillaries, but only under supervision. I agree that the dental profession wastes too much time and energy on turf wars (see my above post on state licensure), but this is absolutely not the case. It's a matter of providing rural Alaskans with standardized, competent care. There's got to be a better way. I think cutting red tape in terms of volunteer dentists is the best option now, followed by training individuals from that part of the country, who are most likely to go back.

I find it interesting that you redirect the issue to "standard of care". cf. my earlier post addressing that issue. It's clear that no one on this board comes close to the level of cynicism with which I go through my daily life, so I'll let this issue lie.

Seriously, though, the Alaska thing could be fun if they didn't expect you to live in an igloo year-round.

 

[gryffindor]

I've also heard that the red tape involved was ridiculous. This whole regional board, state to state licensure thing is archaic. My mentor in dental school (ny), after retiring, wanted to work 1day/week in rural PA, where there's a 2 year wait-list of patients, yet couldn't due to bs state licensure rules. Organized dentistry must step up and eliminate this licensure problem.

Unless this situation occurred many many years ago and the rules were different, getting a PA license is cake if you already have a NY license. Sure it involves a little paperwork, but both states recognize the NERB and recognize licensure by credentials so there really shouldn't be an issue here.

For the kid who wants to go to Alaska, look into the IHS, I bet they have a site there.

 

[molarama]

I find it interesting that you redirect the issue to "standard of care". cf. my earlier post addressing that issue. It's clear that no one on this board comes close to the level of cynicism with which I go through my daily life, so I'll let this issue lie.

Seriously, though, the Alaska thing could be fun if they didn't expect you to live in an igloo year-round.

Regarding dental therapists, although you kept referring to greedy dentists trying to protect their rice bowl, I thought standard of care was the issue the entire time.
A healthy cynicism is always a great thing to have.
I think dentists must ensure that dentistry doesn't get carved up into advanced dental assistant practitioners, advanced dental hygienists, dental therapists, denturists, blah blah blah. even worse practicing without supervision.
I read about a community in south dakota who are lobbying to reserve one spot / year in dental school for someone who promises to come to practice in this community - that's a good initiative. They are doing this in response to ADHA (American dental hygienists assoc.) lobbying to allow hygienists to perform restorative work, and the community would rather have a dentist do it.