Dismissed after first term

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Hi all, please bear with me in through this long post, I could sure use your help.

I've been dismissed from an osteopathic medical program today after my first term and an unsuccessful appeal. I would appreciate anybody reading this and providing helpful advice on where to go from here, or simply if anybody can relate to my situation. I am disclosing all information pertaining to my situation so you can get a pretty good idea of the predicament I am in.

Here's the story: I was accepted into my program three weeks before classes began and moved across the country (literally, coast-to-coast) to attend school. I was definitely apprehensive at first, not knowing if it would be feasible to move, as well as prepare for and start med school in three weeks. Furthermore, the school where I was accepted is in a large city and I knew it would be hard to find housing on short notice, let alone start medical school without yet having a place to live. I went for it though, how could I pass up that opportunity. Finding housing was a nightmare and I didn't end up signing a lease until about two months into the term. This complicated the first eight weeks of school and, though I felt behind, I didn't start feeling a sense of impending doom until I got a kidney stone during the first set of exams. I was in the hospital for a day and out of commission for five days (due to passing stone and pain meds). *By the by, this sob story of my short-notice move and acute illness (with supporting medical documentation) was covered in my appeal.* The kidney stone set me back 5-6 days and, perhaps needless to say, I did poorly on the first set of exams. Second set of exams, much better. All A's, B's, and one C.

I will note at this point that after the difficulty of getting settled due to my short-notice cross-country move, with subsequent illness and hospitalization, I was feeling reallllly behind and was petrified of being dismissed. I met with the dean (twice), and with my anatomy professors several times. Anatomy was the class I was struggling most in since it was really easy to get behind due to the amount of material. I was feeling better about school after the second set of exams, though I did poorly on the second anatomy practical as well.

Now on to finals week. On the second day of finals week I became ill with recurrent IBS (medical documentation also provided in my appeal) and bombed all finals apart from anatomy. Given this unfortunate turn of events, as well as the nightmare of my early semester, I never felt like I really had a chance to establish a quality study regimen and get into a good groove because since pretty much day one I was living from exam to exam. My motivation never dwindled and I was studying pretty much 24/7. When I told my classmates/friends, they were shocked and offered to write letters to the dean attesting to my dedication and rough go at things.

As a last ditch, I also came forward with, and included in my appeal, a well-documented learning disability that I have. In hindsight, I should have come forward with it sooner, but it had never been a problem in undergrad and I never struggled with in my studies. I just figured that it couldn't hurt.

Long story, sorry. So...school had me fill out forms for disability accommodation and my dismissal was pended until the results of a teleconference with disability services were released. My disability accommodations were approved, and two hours later my appeal was rejected and my dismissal was final.

I was very humble in my appeal and included all documentation (very thorough), as well as a proposed academic plan and a statement describing why the factors that initially held me back would not be an issue should I be reinstated.

Again, sorry about the long post, but you can imagine how miserable this is and I am just looking for any feedback to help me make sense of this mess.

Thanks.

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[JRO38]

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[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, JR. I see your point and agree that my litany of issues perhaps made me seem "high risk." I took the honesty route and hoped they would see that my perfect storm (so to speak) was unusual/exceptional. I did make it a point to stress in my appeal why these problems wouldn't be an issue in the future, but maybe they just saw the risk:benefit ratio as being too high.
Thanks again.

 

[JRO38]

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[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Also, just to clarify, JR: At no point in my appeal, nor prior to it, did I ever cite stress as a reason that I performed poorly. Perhaps it was unintentionally implicit in my medical issues, but I never said that I was too stressed and/or implied emotional issues (e.g. stress or anything similar). Thanks again for your thoughtful comment.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I am quite sedulously reading through my course handbook. Prior to this, I read only the section that applied to my appeals process, so now I am trying to see if there was anything that I missed. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[deleted480308]

How many classes did you actually fail and by how much?

 

[deleted480308]

And have you requested consideration to restart next year?

 

[operaman]

Also very sorry to hear you're going through this. I think the honesty route is/was a good idea. You've left out some important info (which as I click "view new messages" I can see others are also asking about). Just had badly did you fail these exams? I think that's an incredibly important point. To summarize your ills:

1) Moving/trying to get settled during first couple of months
2) kidney stone before 1st exams --> out of it for 5 days -->failed first exams
3) Decent job on 2nd exam
4) IBS flare --> failure of finals [irritable or inflammatory BS?]
5) Concurrent learning disability NOS

Without knowing the details of #5 and exactly what you mean by IBS, this should not have been enough to fail. Any failure should have been within 1 or 2 points of passing because you truly weren't out of commission for that long based on what I'm reading. Nobody would expect you to ace everything with all that going on, but it doesn't sound like enough to cause a failure. I know you got an A,B,and C on the second exams, but my spidey sense tells me that the C was pretty low and that the A and B were in much easier subjects.

Unfortunately, first semester of M1 is arguably one of the easiest semesters of medical school. Adjusting to the new volume is a little tough, but not that bad and the material is relatively straightforward and much of the early part simply a review of undergrad. If I were sitting on the progress committee, this would be a terribly difficult case because while I would want to give someone a second chance, I see that the major issues are ongoing and will likely cause failure again. I would feel ethically torn between another chance and the fairly certain knowledge that this student will be unlikely to finish school regardless. This reads like someone on the precipice academically where the slightest nudge will tip them over into failure. I would worry how this person will pass boards. How will they handle the stresses of clinical years when material gets tougher and study time gets a LOT shorter? What about residency - will this person be able to take care of patients while stressed and sleep deprived?

So while my heart goes out to you, I think your honesty has led the administration to the conclusion that you will be unlikely to finish school should they allow you to continue. I would urge you to consider the possibility that they may have made the right call.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I failed four of seven courses (ugh, I hate even saying that), but not by huge margins. I did quite well on the second set of exams, but I think they only look at cumulative numbers. But I got a B or an A on at least one exam in each class I failed, which I was hoping they would take into account.

No, I haven't yet asked for that consideration. I sent my dean an email directly after my dismissal notice asking him to meet with me to discuss my options. No reply as of yet. I will look into that though. Thanks for the response, sb, I appreciate it.

 

[deleted480308]

I hope it works out for you

 

[hallowmann]

Definitely see if you can work something out to just restart the year next year.

If that doesn't work out, is strongly suggest reevaluating your career goals. Going forward will be hard and will take time, so if you think you'd be happy doing something else, you should really consider it.

If you decide to continue in the path for medicine, I'd read through the thread below. In it, Bones DO basically was in a similar situation as you 6yrs ago. He's currently in residency. Read through it, see what he did that made him successful, see the additional obstacles he faced, etc.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/failed-out-of-do-program-trying-to-get-back-in.665422/

Good luck! I hope whatever happens works out for the best!

 

[costales]

Ask for a committee hearing if your school still allows it. (IBS is not rare among the med school population, and stress is a well known trigger. It is important to control the symptoms, because the medical profession is notoriously unkind to trainees who have recurrent issues.)

 

[DocWinter]

Laser, failing 4 of 7 is a really bad sign from the schools perspective. If there were 1 or 2 you failed, I would assume the committee would look more favorably on your circumstances. However, save you finding a loophole and appeal to remediate your 1st year, you may have to move on.

1) try to remediate

2) try to apply/get in to other DO schools in 2016. Apply hard and heavy to 25+ schools, especially all the newer/middle/lower tier DO schools.

3) clear the slate, reassess your life and goals and take a new road. PA/NP, or perhaps a whole new career.

Best of luck to you, sorry to hear of your troubles.

 

[JRO38]

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[Mad Jack]

Most schools will allow you to come back the following year and begin again. That's really your only option, as you've failed too many classes to simply do something like summer remediation. This isn't an issue of whether or not you have a health problem, it is an issue of you lacking the knowledge and skills to successfully move forward. Being ill does not change that reality.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Also very sorry to hear you're going through this. I think the honesty route is/was a good idea. You've left out some important info (which as I click "view new messages" I can see others are also asking about). Just had badly did you fail these exams? I think that's an incredibly important point. To summarize your ills:

1) Moving/trying to get settled during first couple of months
2) kidney stone before 1st exams --> out of it for 5 days -->failed first exams
3) Decent job on 2nd exam
4) IBS flare --> failure of finals [irritable or inflammatory BS?]
5) Concurrent learning disability NOS

Without knowing the details of #5 and exactly what you mean by IBS, this should not have been enough to fail. Any failure should have been within 1 or 2 points of passing because you truly weren't out of commission for that long based on what I'm reading. Nobody would expect you to ace everything with all that going on, but it doesn't sound like enough to cause a failure. I know you got an A,B,and C on the second exams, but my spidey sense tells me that the C was pretty low and that the A and B were in much easier subjects.

Unfortunately, first semester of M1 is arguably one of the easiest semesters of medical school. Adjusting to the new volume is a little tough, but not that bad and the material is relatively straightforward and much of the early part simply a review of undergrad. If I were sitting on the progress committee, this would be a terribly difficult case because while I would want to give someone a second chance, I see that the major issues are ongoing and will likely cause failure again. I would feel ethically torn between another chance and the fairly certain knowledge that this student will be unlikely to finish school regardless. This reads like someone on the precipice academically where the slightest nudge will tip them over into failure. I would worry how this person will pass boards. How will they handle the stresses of clinical years when material gets tougher and study time gets a LOT shorter? What about residency - will this person be able to take care of patients while stressed and sleep deprived?

So while my heart goes out to you, I think your honesty has led the administration to the conclusion that you will be unlikely to finish school should they allow you to continue. I would urge you to consider the possibility that they may have made the right call.

I suppose I should elaborate...IBS = irritable bowel syndrome (with secondary "spasmodic colon" dx). This makes me a notice my glaring omission: Doc I saw for this issue wanted me to get a colonoscopy during finals week because his ddx included colorectal cancer. I tried to not think about that and power through finals because I was worried about how two medical issues would look to administration (I know, hindsight 20/20). Incidentally, I got a colonoscopy after finals...not colorectal cancer.

I absolutely understand your reality check with urging me to consider that they made the right call, and I appreciate your candor. The A grade was on the second physiology exam (failed the first), and the B's were in biochem and physical diagnosis. Low C (your spidey sense did not fail you there) was in anatomy. To be clear though, I did bomb all finals besides those on the first day (anatomy). I guess it's hard to relate unless you were in my shoes and I tried to not sound like I was making excuses in my appeal, but in the end, I am responsible for my own actions. I know I would kill if given a second chance.

I was just curious, did they mention why they waited for the results to come back (in your favor) and still dismiss you anyway? If they weren't even going to factor it into their decision seems kind of pointless. Or am I just missing something...

That puzzled me as well. Considering the responses from the dean have been little less that one or two words, I'm kind of in the dark. Still waiting for a reply regarding my request to have a meeting with the dean.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Most schools will allow you to come back the following year and begin again. That's really your only option, as you've failed too many classes to simply do something like summer remediation. This isn't an issue of whether or not you have a health problem, it is an issue of you lacking the knowledge and skills to successfully move forward. Being ill does not change that reality.

Thanks for the post MadJack, and what you say is true. The health problem is moot at this point. But what you said about returning the following year, or any other similar options for that matter, is exactly what I need. I've never gotten sick during school in my life, this was just the perfect s*** storm of crappy events. I feel like the broader career implications of being outright kicked out of med school are slightly excessive in my case, but that's why I'm here, to get objective feedback.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Definitely see if you can work something out to just restart the year next year.

If that doesn't work out, is strongly suggest reevaluating your career goals. Going forward will be hard and will take time, so if you think you'd be happy doing something else, you should really consider it.

If you decide to continue in the path for medicine, I'd read through the thread below. In it, Bones DO basically was in a similar situation as you 6yrs ago. He's currently in residency. Read through it, see what he did that made him successful, see the additional obstacles he faced, etc.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/failed-out-of-do-program-trying-to-get-back-in.665422/

Good luck! I hope whatever happens works out for the best!

Thanks hallowmann, that's very helpful.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Ask for a committee hearing if your school still allows it. (IBS is not rare among the med school population, and stress is a well known trigger. It is important to control the symptoms, because the medical profession is notoriously unkind to trainees who have recurrent issues.)

That's why all of this is so crazy for me. I never get sick, and my first year of medical school I acquire two acute illnesses during exam weeks. I tried to reassure them in my appeal that I took all necessary measures to ensure no recurrences.

 

[Mad Jack]

Thanks for the post MadJack, and what you say is true. The health problem is moot at this point. But what you said about returning the following year, or any other similar options for that matter, is exactly what I need. I've never gotten sick during school in my life, this was just the perfect s*** storm of crappy events. I feel like the broader career implications of being outright kicked out of med school are slightly excessive in my case, but that's why I'm here, to get objective feedback.

They'll probably let you give it another go. Each school is allowed to have 8% of the class be repeats, and if you don't do well, they really don't lose anything. In fact, they gain your tuition money and if you do will you reduce their dropout rate.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

 

[TheFuture_22]

As others have said, I think it should be your goal to try to get reinstated next year. Remediation is not likely with 4 failures, but I have heard of people being allowed to return the following year with a situation similar to yours. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you get that second chance!

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

It makes me wonder though, why wouldn't they present that as an option in the first place?

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

As others have said, I think it should be your goal to try to get reinstated next year. Remediation is not likely with 4 failures, but I have heard of people being allowed to return the following year with a situation similar to yours. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you get that second chance!

Thanks for the advice and support FutureDO, I really appreciate it.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

They'll probably let you give it another go. Each school is allowed to have 8% of the class be repeats, and if you don't do well, they really don't lose anything. In fact, they gain your tuition money and if you do will you reduce their dropout rate.

It makes me wonder though, why wouldn't they present that as an option in the first place?

 

[TheFuture_22]

It makes me wonder though, why wouldn't they present that as an option in the first place?

That's a good question, but maybe they want you to bring it up and present your reasons that you think you deserve another shot. Maybe they don't want to just give it to you, but want to make sure that you are motivated enough to fight for it a bit. All of this is just a blind guess though, for all I know they didn't offer it because they just don't plan on giving you another chance. Let's hope it's the former, but either way it won't hurt to try so you have nothing to lose here.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

That's a good question, but maybe they want you to bring it up and present your reasons that you think you deserve another shot. Maybe they don't want to just give it to you, but want to make sure that you are motivated enough to fight for it a bit. All of this is just a blind guess though, for all I know they didn't offer it because they just don't plan on giving you another chance. Let's hope it's the former, but either way it won't hurt to try so you have nothing to lose here.

That's a valid point. Either way, like you said, I have nothing to lose. I believe strongly in my case and will fight to the bitter end. I really appreciate the feedback.

 

[deleted480308]

That's a valid point. Either way, like you said, I have nothing to lose. I believe strongly in my case and will fight to the bitter end. I really appreciate the feedback.

There is no fighting, only begging. You failed more than half your classes and they hold all the power. But I really would encourage you to keep pleading for a restart

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

There is no fighting, only begging. You failed more than half your classes and they hold all the power. But I really would encourage you to keep pleading for a restart

Also valid and correct. From day one I've tried to be as humble as possible, but you are so right in saying that they hold all the power. Thanks sb.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Ask for a committee hearing if your school still allows it. (IBS is not rare among the med school population, and stress is a well known trigger. It is important to control the symptoms, because the medical profession is notoriously unkind to trainees who have recurrent issues.)

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I tried to emphasize in my appeal that these illnesses were anomalies and that I've taken every possible step to ensure that they don't happen again. It's so frustrating only getting short email updates from administration. Also, I'm am in fact waiting on a request for a committee hearing.

 

[cliquesh]

IBS is, in general, a bull**** diagnosis. The typical board question is usually a young woman with psych issues and GI complaints. No one is going to consider that a major medical problem, so I wouldn't bring that up anymore.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

IBS is, in general, a bull**** diagnosis. The typical board question is usually a young woman with psych issues and GI complaints. No one is going to consider that a major medical problem, so I wouldn't bring that up anymore.

Good to know.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Search "dismissal" or "failed out". There are probably 5 threads per year, maybe more, about people trying to appeal their way back in.

While I am sure there have been a few people successful at getting reinstated, I have never heard of an actual example.

EVERYONE always tries to cite medical illness, some learning disorder, depression, etc etc etc. it never works.

While I wish you the best of luck, you need to know that the odds of getting reinstated are pretty nonexistent.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Also, please do yourself a favor and make sure you do some searching on this site before you get a lawyer involved.

Lawyers are very expensive, and I am unaware of anyone ever being successful in "suing their way back in", despite multiple threads of people trying to do so.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Also, please do yourself a favor and make sure you do some searching on this site before you get a lawyer involved.

Lawyers are very expensive, and I am unaware of anyone ever being successful in "suing their way back in", despite multiple threads of people trying to do so.

I definitely don't plan on going that route.

 

[costales]

It's almost impossible to win in court, unless you can prove that school officials violated their own procedures, contradicted themselves, or acted in a discriminatory manner.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I definitely don't plan on going that route.

I didnt think you would, just wanted to make sure. It happens all the time and it always ends with bad news plus more debt.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I never even hinted at the notion that I might consider legal action, another user brought that up.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

It's almost impossible to win in court, unless you can prove that school officials violated their own procedures, contradicted themselves, or acted in a discriminatory manner.

I never even hinted at the notion that I might consider legal action, another user brought that up.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I didnt think you would, just wanted to make sure. It happens all the time and it always ends with bad news plus more debt.

Thanks for the input and for reading my post.

 

[JRO38]

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[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Yes and no.

It definitely has a high co-occurrence with anxiety and other psych issues.

But at the same time, these people definitely are having abominal pain, sh*ting their brains out, or constipated for weeks, or have episodes so bad they are incontinent. It's not like they are making up their symptoms or have volitional control of them.

The problem is it's kind of like the GI equivalent of the Autism spectrum. It's probably about 20 different conditions of varying severity that we don't have a full understanding of the underlying pathophysiology - so we just call them all IBS. We also don't have good treatments as a result.

But because there is a heavy stigma around them, I would try to avoid bringing it up. Unfortunately as this post exemplifies it's not a diagnosis that engenders empathy.

Since it was brought up, I'll elaborate on the specifics of my case. My symptoms were constipation, rectal bleeding, abdominal pain, and, later, vomiting. While I realize the litany of possible dx's, my pcp wanted me to get a colonoscopy to rule out colorectal cancer. This was during finals week. And I see where everybody is coming from with regards to the largely idiopathic nature of IBS, but I think the IBS dx was just to say that he didn't know what it was at the time and further diagnostic screening was necessary. I was legitimately scared. Does this seem relevant to an appeal?

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

That's pretty common with all diagnoses of exclusion. People have sympathy for something concrete, tangible, visible. It also doesn't help when someone has vaguely similar symptoms like fatigue and arthritis who proclaim they have fibromyalgia from the mountain top. When you actually see a patient with one of these diseases you understand, but it can get frustrating with all the Dr. googles clouding up an already vague diagnosis. Therefore, I would also recommend sticking with the acute medical conditions and how they likely won't occur all at once again.

And I also only brought up the lawyer issue because in your OP you were asking for any and all advice or guidance - I've seen it brought up in other threads and we can never be sure how effective it is (OPs don't always deliver 100% of the timee). That said, I would recommend against it, but I wanted to put as many options on the table and let you decide for yourself.

Since it was brought up, I'll elaborate on the specifics of my case. My symptoms were constipation, rectal bleeding, abdominal pain, and, later, vomiting. While I realize the litany of possible dx's, my pcp wanted me to get a colonoscopy to rule out colorectal cancer. This was during finals week. And I see where everybody is coming from with regards to the largely idiopathic nature of IBS, but I think the IBS dx was just to say that he didn't know what it was at the time and further diagnostic screening was necessary. I was legitimately scared. Does this seem relevant to an appeal?

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Since it was brought up, I'll elaborate on the specifics of my case. My symptoms were constipation, rectal bleeding, abdominal pain, and, later, vomiting. While I realize the litany of possible dx's, my pcp wanted me to get a colonoscopy to rule out colorectal cancer. This was during finals week. And I see where everybody is coming from with regards to the largely idiopathic nature of IBS, but I think the IBS dx was just to say that he didn't know what it was at the time and further diagnostic screening was necessary. I was legitimately scared. Does this seem relevant to an appeal?

Unfortunately, just based off of how similar past threads have played out, no.

You SHOULD get a second shot at it. It just doesn't ever really work out like that

Have you considered any other career options?

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Unfortunately, just based off of how similar past threads have played out, no.

You SHOULD get a second shot at it. It just doesn't ever really work out like that

Have you considered any other career options?

No, I'm still considering my options for becoming a physician. Caribbean is looking better and better...

 

[DocWinter]

No, I'm still considering my options for becoming a physician. Caribbean is looking better and better...

The Caribbean looks at you with a big smile too...

What were your entering gpa and mcat? If you have stellar numbers, it's less of a really bad option, but they would love to take your money, regardless if you are ready to pass the courses or not. If you think you got no love from the DO school...they'll change your mind.
Try to remediate the year.

 

[WonderBoy]

I would avoid Caribbean schools like the plague. I would beg them to let to repeat the year, if not then start working on reapplying, there are schools that may give you a shot given your well documented illness.

Most importantly, take care off yourself first. The first semester is the most difficult and its normal too struggle given the enormous volume of material you face for the first time in your academic life. You know what med school is like, now would be a time to step and see if you really want to do this too?

Wish you all the best, many have been in your shoes before you and things worked out. Take care off yourself.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

Let the poor person repeat the year! Don't they want more money?!

 

[Kevin Baker]

No, I'm still considering my options for becoming a physician. Caribbean is looking better and better...

It's super tough as a Carib grad at the big 4 to land a residency and it's only getting tougher. I doubt most residency committees look well on caribbean applicants who were previously dismissed at domestic medical schools And with the residency crunch by the time you graduate... I'd think long and hard about going abroad if this doesn't work out. It's a tough situation to be in but no point digging in your heels when the odds ain't looking good.