Do all DO students graduating 2020 or later need to take USMLE or for competitive?

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What about the idea of prepping and putting all energy into the USLME, and five days later you take the COMLEX but don't score nearly as well as well on the USMLE? I give this hypothetical because the idea of taking Step 1 and then the COMLEX in the same week appears to be such large mental obstacle to achieve success on both. In other words, is it better to do well on Step 1, and below average to average on COMLEX as opposed to just scoring really well on COMLEX alone? As I am about to begin OMS-1, the idea of taking two 7+ hr exams in a 5 day period is slightly intimidating/insurmountable lol.

Better to do well on the USMLE and average/below average on the COMLEX. The ACGME PDs will have an easier time using your USMLE score to compare applicants versus COMLEX.

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Obviously a program that hasn't taken a DO in years (or ever) it would be foolish to not have usmle, but what about programs that take DOs every year? Seems like they would have to go out of their way to not be familiar with COMLEX scores.
 
Obviously a program that hasn't taken a DO in years (or ever) it would be foolish to not have usmle, but what about programs that take DOs every year? Seems like they would have to go out of their way to not be familiar with COMLEX scores.

But who's to say that every DO in that program (if in the minority) had taken the USMLE and thus got in to their program because of it? Well, if there are a sizable amount of DOs, then yes they would have to look at it.
 
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@IslandStyle808 but even if they've never had a comlex only candidate, they've seen their residents with both comlex and usmle every year, seems like they wouldn't be perplexed by it.
 
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@IslandStyle808 but even if they've never had a comles only candidate, they've seen their residents with both comlex and usmle every year, seems like they wouldn't be perplexed by it.

If the vast majority of the residency program candidates are MDs and only a handful are DOs, it is almost impossible to make a comparison using the COMLEX. It is not so much about being familiar with the COMLEX as it is trying to make a comparison between the USMLE and COMLEX. Does a 650 COMLEX beat out a person with a 240 USMLE? There is no direct comparison. One DO may score a 240 on the USMLE and a 650 on the COMLEX. While another DO could score a 240 USMLE, but a 500 on the COMLEX. You cannot make a comparison using former candidates scores, because how they perform can differ.
 
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If the vast majority of the residency program candidates are MDs and only a handful are DOs, it is almost impossible to make a comparison using the COMLEX. It is not so much about being familiar with the COMLEX as it is trying to make a comparison between the USMLE and COMLEX. Does a 650 COMLEX beat out a person with a 240 USMLE? There is no direct comparison. One DO may score a 240 on the USMLE and a 650 on the COMLEX. While another DO could score a 240 USMLE, but a 500 on the COMLEX. You cannot make a comparison using former candidates scores as a comparison, because how they perform can differ.

I get that variance between candidates, but it isn't exactly apples to oranges with the individual candidate, that person took both tests and got a 240 and a 650. If a PD takes a DO every year that has a 240+ and a 600+, then one year gets someone with a 600+ only, people are making it sound like the PD would say "a 600? whats that?" which is hard to believe. Not saying there is equal conversion, just that if a program takes DOs I would think they understand what a good COMLEX score is.
 
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I get that variance between candidates, but it isn't exactly apples to oranges with the individual candidate, that person took both tests and got a 240 and a 650. If a PD takes a DO every year that has a 240+ and a 600+, then one year gets someone with a 600+ only, people are making it sound like the PD would say "a 600? whats that?" which is hard to believe.

Its not so much a "what's that" but a "is that better than a 240?" They may have an idea if the score difference is rather large (ex. a 700 COMLEX to a 200 USMLE). However, if the difference is rather small, then how do you know you are getting the better candidate (ex. a DO with a 700 COMLEX to a MD student with 250 USMLE)? However, if that same DO student with a 700 COMLEX had a 240 USMLE, you know now that the MD student 250 UMSLE scorer is the better candidate (not factoring in any DO bias). This is why it makes the life of the PD easier if the DO applicant has the USMLE.
 
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the high yield point for anyone reading this thread is to take both. You dont go to compete with a USMD if you dont have the step. It is comparing apples to oranges for many PDs, because it equalizes the playing field. Pds have enough crap to do, let alone try to correlate comlex to step score. Suck it up, do the step, land a spot.
 
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Its not so much a "what's that" but a "is that better than a 240?" They may have an idea if the score difference is rather large (ex. a 700 COMLEX to a 200 USMLE). However, if the difference is rather small, then how do you know you are getting the better candidate (ex. a DO with a 700 COMLEX to a MD student with 250 USMLE)? However, if that same DO student with a 700 COMLEX had a 240 USMLE, you know now that the MD student 250 UMSLE scorer is the better candidate (not factoring in any DO bias). This is why it makes the life of the PD easier if the DO applicant has the USMLE.

I don't disagree, just playing devils advocate for those that think anyone without a usmle is doomed to rural FM. And like many have said it depends on specialty and location (i.e. if your list of desired programs have little to no DOs a usmle is required), but I'm curious about those programs that have say 10-20% of their class DOs and state they accept either exam.
 
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I don't disagree, just playing devils advocate for those that think anyone without a usmle is doomed to rural FM. And like many have said it depends on specialty and location (i.e. if your list of desired programs have little to no DOs a usmle is required), but I'm curious about those programs that have say 10-20% of their class DOs and state they accept either exam.

I mean if they say they take the comlex then they take the comlex. In my experience is that acgme places that take the comlex in lieu of the usmle are places that don't put a lot importance on high board scores anyway.
 
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I don't disagree, just playing devils advocate for those that think anyone without a usmle is doomed to rural FM. And like many have said it depends on specialty and location (i.e. if your list of desired programs have little to no DOs a usmle is required), but I'm curious about those programs that have say 10-20% of their class DOs and state they accept either exam.

Have had a lot of "Do I take the USMLE" talk at my medical school over the last two weeks as board exams get closer. A good amount of my classmates have backed out of the USMLE simply because they aren't scoring well on the NBMEs (barely passing, around 200). That being said, I think it's very valid to back out if you are scoring 1 S.D. below the mean on the NBMEs within a week or two before your scheduled exam. Getting a 200 on USMLE won't help your options anywhere.

I definitely think scoring > 215 on the USMLE will help your application, regardless of what you want to go into. Remember, the average score is a 229, not a 240 as SDN makes it seem like sometimes due to all of the high scores being posted. I'd figure with a 215 or 220 USMLE you would be competitive for at least some Primary Care MD Residency Programs. You wouldn't be one standard deviation below the mean (< 210) either. Not to mention that there are a lot more factors that go into Ranking placement besides your step 1 USMLE Score.

That being said, multiple graduating 4th years that I know matched into good EM Residencies while only taking COMLEX. They highly regretted not taking USMLE though, because at the end of the day, it limits your options on where you can apply and get interviews at. Not only that, but Residency programs are beginning to merge and by the time its 2019, a lot of these programs will have merged to where they take USMLE or require/favor it over COMLEX.

And as an aside, it's very very tough to score above a 230 on USMLE (contrary to how easy it may appear due to the high frequency of 240+ scores on SDN). And it's even harder coming from a D.O. school simply because we aren't taught to the USMLE board exams. In our curriculum, we had barely any Biochemistry during our second year. I started prepping Biochem and doing USMLE-Rx back in January because of this. It took a lot of grinding and a very hard work ethic to even top 220+ on these NBMEs. So, don't get down on yourself and depressed if you aren't scoring as high as you thought you would on the NBMEs. It's a completely different test than COMLEX that requires a lot more preparation and work outside of class material.

TLDR: Take USMLE if you can score within one S.D. on an NBME (probably > 210 on NBME). If you can't score 210 or above on an NBME, don't take USMLE, and realize that this will limit your application, but it's definitely not the end of the world if your goal is a primary care residency.
 
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Have had a lot of "Do I take the USMLE" talk at my medical school over the last two weeks as board exams get closer. A good amount of my classmates have backed out of the USMLE simply because they aren't scoring well on the NBMEs (barely passing, around 200). That being said, I think it's very valid to back out if you are scoring 1 S.D. below the mean on the NBMEs within a week or two before your scheduled exam. Getting a 200 on USMLE won't help your options anywhere.

I definitely think scoring > 215 on the USMLE will help your application, regardless of what you want to go into. Remember, the average score is a 229, not a 240 as SDN makes it seem like sometimes due to all of the high scores being posted. I'd figure with a 215 or 220 USMLE you would be competitive for at least some Primary Care MD Residency Programs. You wouldn't be one standard deviation below the mean (< 210) either. Not to mention that there are a lot more factors that go into Ranking placement besides your step 1 USMLE Score.

That being said, multiple graduating 4th years that I know matched into good EM Residencies while only taking COMLEX. They highly regretted not taking USMLE though, because at the end of the day, it limits your options on where you can apply and get interviews at. Not only that, but Residency programs are beginning to merge and by the time its 2019, a lot of these programs will have merged to where they take USMLE or require/favor it over COMLEX.

And as an aside, it's very very tough to score above a 230 on USMLE (contrary to how easy it may appear due to the high frequency of 240+ scores on SDN). And it's even harder coming from a D.O. school simply because we aren't taught to the USMLE board exams. In our curriculum, we had barely any Biochemistry during our second year. I started prepping Biochem and doing USMLE-Rx back in January because of this. It took a lot of grinding and a very hard work ethic to even top 220+ on these NBMEs. So, don't get down on yourself and depressed if you aren't scoring as high as you thought you would on the NBMEs. It's a completely different test than COMLEX that requires a lot more preparation and work outside of class material.

TLDR: Take USMLE if you can score within one S.D. on an NBME (probably > 210 on NBME). If you can't score 210 or above on an NBME, don't take USMLE, and realize that this will limit your application, but it's definitely not the end of the world if your goal is a primary care residency.
Best post on this thread.
 
Have had a lot of "Do I take the USMLE" talk at my medical school over the last two weeks as board exams get closer. A good amount of my classmates have backed out of the USMLE simply because they aren't scoring well on the NBMEs (barely passing, around 200). That being said, I think it's very valid to back out if you are scoring 1 S.D. below the mean on the NBMEs within a week or two before your scheduled exam. Getting a 200 on USMLE won't help your options anywhere.

I definitely think scoring > 215 on the USMLE will help your application, regardless of what you want to go into. Remember, the average score is a 229, not a 240 as SDN makes it seem like sometimes due to all of the high scores being posted. I'd figure with a 215 or 220 USMLE you would be competitive for at least some Primary Care MD Residency Programs. You wouldn't be one standard deviation below the mean (< 210) either. Not to mention that there are a lot more factors that go into Ranking placement besides your step 1 USMLE Score.

That being said, multiple graduating 4th years that I know matched into good EM Residencies while only taking COMLEX. They highly regretted not taking USMLE though, because at the end of the day, it limits your options on where you can apply and get interviews at. Not only that, but Residency programs are beginning to merge and by the time its 2019, a lot of these programs will have merged to where they take USMLE or require/favor it over COMLEX.

And as an aside, it's very very tough to score above a 230 on USMLE (contrary to how easy it may appear due to the high frequency of 240+ scores on SDN). And it's even harder coming from a D.O. school simply because we aren't taught to the USMLE board exams. In our curriculum, we had barely any Biochemistry during our second year. I started prepping Biochem and doing USMLE-Rx back in January because of this. It took a lot of grinding and a very hard work ethic to even top 220+ on these NBMEs. So, don't get down on yourself and depressed if you aren't scoring as high as you thought you would on the NBMEs. It's a completely different test than COMLEX that requires a lot more preparation and work outside of class material.

TLDR: Take USMLE if you can score within one S.D. on an NBME (probably > 210 on NBME). If you can't score 210 or above on an NBME, don't take USMLE, and realize that this will limit your application, but it's definitely not the end of the world if your goal is a primary care residency.
I agree and disagree with you. Getting a 230 isn't impossible. Only issue the avg from what i last saw was around a 233ish but i know its above a 230. As a DO we are almost in the same category as IMGs now, second class citizens, so we really need to do better than the average which really sucks cuz 230 on most nbmes is getting 87% out of 200 (most no all). Its much different than those who matched before given this new 1 match rule. Before we had the luxury of possibly bombing the usmle, not reporting it and only go to the AOA match, those days are behind us. The real test i feel like will be the class of 2019, we are basically the first raw run. The reason i say this is because by 2020 there is no AOA and the rules will be set in stone. class of 2019 will have to go ACGME because all of AOA spots are kind of iffy and you dont really wanna risk it. Right now there is a promise of " if you're already in a residency by 2020 thats not accredit by the ACGME, you can finish the residency but after the last class graduates, it'll close down" but who knows if they will keep their word. With everything going on, and the rules constantly changing, its risky.
 
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I agree and disagree with you. Getting a 230 isn't impossible. Only issue the avg from what i last saw was around a 233ish but i know its above a 230. As a DO we are almost in the same category as IMGs now, second class citizens, so we really need to do better than the average which really sucks cuz 230 on most nbmes is getting 87% out of 200 (most no all). Its much different than those who matched before given this new 1 match rule. Before we had the luxury of possibly bombing the usmle, not reporting it and only go to the AOA match, those days are behind us. The real test i feel like will be the class of 2019, we are basically the first raw run. The reason i say this is because by 2020 there is no AOA and the rules will be set in stone. class of 2019 will have to go ACGME because all of AOA spots are kind of iffy and you dont really wanna risk it. Right now there is a promise of " if you're already in a residency by 2020 thats not accredit by the ACGME, you can finish the residency but after the last class graduates, it'll close down" but who knows if they will keep their word. With everything going on, and the rules constantly changing, its risky.

I agree with all of your points. Getting a 230 definitely isn't impossible, and I think its very doable. My point was to contrast how much more effort it requires to score well on this exam vs the COMLEX though, not necessarily because the COMLEX is easier, but because we aren't taught in class for the USMLE. I've had friends who have done decently on COMSAEs who then take an NBME and completely bomb it just from how much different of a test it is. On the USMLE there's a lot more biostats, biochem, and cell bio that isn't heavily tested on the COMLEX. I remember taking COMSAE Form E for school and being mindblown that there wasn't a single biostat question on the whole thing.

And yeah I have no idea what to even expect for our match in 2019. As Marty Huggins once said "Bring your Brooms, Cause It's a MESS."
 
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I agree and disagree with you. Getting a 230 isn't impossible. Only issue the avg from what i last saw was around a 233ish but i know its above a 230. As a DO we are almost in the same category as IMGs now, second class citizens, so we really need to do better than the average which really sucks cuz 230 on most nbmes is getting 87% out of 200 (most no all). Its much different than those who matched before given this new 1 match rule. Before we had the luxury of possibly bombing the usmle, not reporting it and only go to the AOA match, those days are behind us. The real test i feel like will be the class of 2019, we are basically the first raw run. The reason i say this is because by 2020 there is no AOA and the rules will be set in stone. class of 2019 will have to go ACGME because all of AOA spots are kind of iffy and you dont really wanna risk it. Right now there is a promise of " if you're already in a residency by 2020 thats not accredit by the ACGME, you can finish the residency but after the last class graduates, it'll close down" but who knows if they will keep their word. With everything going on, and the rules constantly changing, its risky.


I don't think getting a 230 is impossible either. If the school is conducive towards allowing adequate board prep and has taught the subjects well then it's very reasonable for a school to hit decent averages. KCU for example with around 70-80% of the class taking it manages to hit a 224, which isn't far off from the average most schools in the city hit.

That being said and getting back to my original post, there's a lot that makes performing well on the usmle more difficult for DOs. Many schools barely give any time for dedicated study. I cannot imagine being given only 4 weeks to prepare for two exams as I'm 3 weeks in and I still have nearly 3 to 4 systems to review. Likewise many schools have student bodies and administrators that don't know about decent resources for step 1. Even at my school many of the faculty aren't aware of Uworld despite the majority of our students taking step 1.

Now getting back to your next point. I don't think it's as bad as that. I think plenty of DOs will continue to match well in many programs and most hospitals still know that DO training is still more of on a baseline quality controlled than carib programs. Likewise there is more than adequate representation of DOs in many programs. But I'm going to say we should wait and see how having all DOs playing in the ACGME affects matching. I'm sure many programs will see shifts with DOs probably replacing a lot of IMG presence.
 
Many PDs know that the USMLE is a very well written test, and that the COMLEX is straight garbage.

One reason the PDs have little desire to explore how to evaluate the COMLEX stems from a ubiquitous beliefs that it is just a rediculously ****ty test with little correlation to actual medical knowledge.

And yes, I took both tests, and comfortably passed them both. My impression of the USMLE was a well-written, thought provoking, very difficult exam. In contrast, the COMLEX questions literally would not have been acceptable at the high school level. Srs.
 
I agree with all of your points. Getting a 230 definitely isn't impossible, and I think its very doable. My point was to contrast how much more effort it requires to score well on this exam vs the COMLEX though, not necessarily because the COMLEX is easier, but because we aren't taught in class for the USMLE. I've had friends who have done decently on COMSAEs who then take an NBME and completely bomb it just from how much different of a test it is. On the USMLE there's a lot more biostats, biochem, and cell bio that isn't heavily tested on the COMLEX. I remember taking COMSAE Form E for school and being mindblown that there wasn't a single biostat question on the whole thing.

And yeah I have no idea what to even expect for our match in 2019. As Marty Huggins once said "Bring your Brooms, Cause It's a MESS."

I think that's the inherent issue of having two different tests that have completely different question styles and focuses. And I suspect many school's general exam questions may differ on whether they're more comlex like or usmle like. Doing Uworld questions to me is very similar to doing puthoff questions.
 
I don't think getting a 230 is impossible either. If the school is conducive towards allowing adequate board prep and has taught the subjects well then it's very reasonable for a school to hit decent averages. KCU for example with around 70-80% of the class taking it manages to hit a 224, which isn't far off from the average most schools in the city hit.

That being said and getting back to my original post, there's a lot that makes performing well on the usmle more difficult for DOs. Many schools barely give any time for dedicated study. I cannot imagine being given only 4 weeks to prepare for two exams as I'm 3 weeks in and I still have nearly 3 to 4 systems to review. Likewise many schools have student bodies and administrators that don't know about decent resources for step 1. Even at my school many of the faculty aren't aware of Uworld despite the majority of our students taking step 1.

Now getting back to your next point. I don't think it's as bad as that. I think plenty of DOs will continue to match well in many programs and most hospitals still know that DO training is still more of on a baseline quality controlled than carib programs. Likewise there is more than adequate representation of DOs in many programs. But I'm going to say we should wait and see how having all DOs playing in the ACGME affects matching. I'm sure many programs will see shifts with DOs probably replacing a lot of IMG presence.
at MSUCOM the class of 2018 bombed boards so badly that they gave us extra time to study for it , but took away from our audition rotation, so we have one less now. To add on to this issue, teachers write super easy first order questions that dont require much studying or they write questions well above step 1 or comlex level more in the area of step 2 which is also annoying. I have a theory that alot DO school dont want their graduates to match into specialties instead they want us to do primary care.
 
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Have had a lot of "Do I take the USMLE" talk at my medical school over the last two weeks as board exams get closer. A good amount of my classmates have backed out of the USMLE simply because they aren't scoring well on the NBMEs (barely passing, around 200). That being said, I think it's very valid to back out if you are scoring 1 S.D. below the mean on the NBMEs within a week or two before your scheduled exam. Getting a 200 on USMLE won't help your options anywhere.

I definitely think scoring > 215 on the USMLE will help your application, regardless of what you want to go into. Remember, the average score is a 229, not a 240 as SDN makes it seem like sometimes due to all of the high scores being posted. I'd figure with a 215 or 220 USMLE you would be competitive for at least some Primary Care MD Residency Programs. You wouldn't be one standard deviation below the mean (< 210) either. Not to mention that there are a lot more factors that go into Ranking placement besides your step 1 USMLE Score.

That being said, multiple graduating 4th years that I know matched into good EM Residencies while only taking COMLEX. They highly regretted not taking USMLE though, because at the end of the day, it limits your options on where you can apply and get interviews at. Not only that, but Residency programs are beginning to merge and by the time its 2019, a lot of these programs will have merged to where they take USMLE or require/favor it over COMLEX.

And as an aside, it's very very tough to score above a 230 on USMLE (contrary to how easy it may appear due to the high frequency of 240+ scores on SDN). And it's even harder coming from a D.O. school simply because we aren't taught to the USMLE board exams. In our curriculum, we had barely any Biochemistry during our second year. I started prepping Biochem and doing USMLE-Rx back in January because of this. It took a lot of grinding and a very hard work ethic to even top 220+ on these NBMEs. So, don't get down on yourself and depressed if you aren't scoring as high as you thought you would on the NBMEs. It's a completely different test than COMLEX that requires a lot more preparation and work outside of class material.

TLDR: Take USMLE if you can score within one S.D. on an NBME (probably > 210 on NBME). If you can't score 210 or above on an NBME, don't take USMLE, and realize that this will limit your application, but it's definitely not the end of the world if your goal is a primary care residency.

Well put, but this points out the oddity that everyone on sdn predicts a large increase in applicants taking both exams by 2020, but why would those <215 students do so? The way things are structured now there will still be massive % of DOs that won't come near 230, one could argue that COMLEX acceptance will increase overall post merger.
 
at MSUCOM the class of 2018 bombed boards so badly that they gave us extra time to study for it , but took away from our audition rotation, so we have one less now. To add on to this issue, teachers write super easy first order questions that dont require much studying or they write questions well above step 1 or comlex level more in the area of step 2 which is also annoying. I have a theory that alot DO school dont want their graduates to match into specialties instead they want us to do primary care.

Well, fundamentally we do need to learn things that are step 2 material to do well in the land of clinical rotations. Regarding difficulty of questions it's pretty easy to notice that some schools are writing easier questions than others. PCOM's average is an 88. KCU's average is frequently below an 80% with some of our harder pathology sections have averages of 70%. This at least at my school has lead people to really hammer down on Robbins and study a lot to really break average. So pretty much everyone at our school who averages a B- or higher in pathology generally has busted their ass and knows an exceptionally high amount of information and associations.

I wouldn't go that far. I think that generally most DO schools don't really care about where you match. But more that most DO schools probably aren't knowledgeable or find pushing students into specialty medicine all that important. I'll say it again though, much of the issue is that many DO students aren't familiar with good resources, aren't given enough time, and lack sufficient mentorship on boards.

Generally KCU performs well because everyone knows about good resources like UWORLD, DIT, understands the importance of doing tons of questions, and importantly has a maximum of 8 weeks to prepare.
 
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Well put, but this points out the oddity that everyone on sdn predicts a large increase in applicants taking both exams by 2020, but why would those <215 students do so? The way things are structured now there will still be massive % of DOs that won't come near 230, one could argue that COMLEX acceptance will increase overall post merger.

I think that both will occur. I think plenty of DOs will continue to in increasing number score well on the usmle. No one says you need to average out at a 230. But the average will improve.
 
Programs in 2020 will be getting both the lower part of the class (I presume still COMLEX only) and top studs who went say aoa derm, ortho, ENT, etc. Should be interesting...
 
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Programs in 2020 will be getting both the lower part of the class (I presume still COMLEX only) and top studs who went say aoa derm, ortho, ENT, etc. Should be interesting...

My personal prediction is that we will see a more polar split between these two groups in matching than we currently see. The top students will match even better than before (due to being able to rank all of their programs) and the worse ones will probably be at a greater risk of not matching (due to loss of the safety net, i.e. The many leftover AOA FM spots)
 
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he worse ones will probably be at a greater risk of not matching (due to loss of the safety net, i.e. The many leftover AOA FM spots)

While the safety net is gone, I can't imagine it being too bad assuming enough AOA programs make the transition. There are still so many acgme programs, even university affiliated, that take IMGs even from carib schools I've never heard of, seems like all those bottom 20% students will now have a shot at them since they can't play it safe in the aoa match.
 
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Yes, a huge problem is some, possibly a lot (dunno about other schools just mine) of DO schools don't actively encourage students to take USMLE. Therefore, they could care less how their students score on it and have zero motivation to help students prepare for it. My school didn't care about board study time, and we were weighed down with lots of mandatory class second year and unnecessary "clinical preparation", as well as a few other dumb things. Plus we had a boards prep course that was pretty poorly done.

Once DO schools start to care more about USMLE, and actively work with students/take more feedback, DO students may start scoring at least on par with MD students on USMLE, or close to on par. Until then, I believe were at an overall disadvantage when taking usmle being weighed down by OMM and other things. I had to use a week of my board prep to study for a ridiculously hard OMM final..
 
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Yes, a huge problem is some, possibly a lot (dunno about other schools just mine) of DO schools don't actively encourage students to take USMLE. Therefore, they could care less how their students score on it and have zero motivation to help students prepare for it. My school didn't care about board study time, and we were weighed down with lots of mandatory class second year and unnecessary "clinical preparation", as well as a few other dumb things. Plus we had a boards prep course that was pretty poorly done.

Once DO schools start to care more about USMLE, and actively work with students/take more feedback, DO students may start scoring at least on par with MD students on USMLE, or close to on par. Until then, I believe were at an overall disadvantage when taking usmle being weighed down by OMM and other things. I had to use a week of my board prep to study for a ridiculously hard OMM final..
as long as we pass the comlex boards even if its a bare bone pass, they can advertise that to premeds so they get more apps and continue to make money. Just like MD schools at the end of the day, you are a student ID that needs to pass the boards, after that they dont care too much to help you match to anything worth while. I know a few DO schools that report transitional years as match, um no
 
My personal prediction is that we will see a more polar split between these two groups in matching than we currently see. The top students will match even better than before (due to being able to rank all of their programs) and the worse ones will probably be at a greater risk of not matching (due to loss of the safety net, i.e. The many leftover AOA FM spots)
This is reasonable speculation.
 
Any thoughts by current students on how LECOM prepares students for the USMLE?

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Yes, a huge problem is some, possibly a lot (dunno about other schools just mine) of DO schools don't actively encourage students to take USMLE. Therefore, they could care less how their students score on it and have zero motivation to help students prepare for it. My school didn't care about board study time, and we were weighed down with lots of mandatory class second year and unnecessary "clinical preparation", as well as a few other dumb things. Plus we had a boards prep course that was pretty poorly done.

Once DO schools start to care more about USMLE, and actively work with students/take more feedback, DO students may start scoring at least on par with MD students on USMLE, or close to on par. Until then, I believe were at an overall disadvantage when taking usmle being weighed down by OMM and other things. I had to use a week of my board prep to study for a ridiculously hard OMM final..

I am somewhat curious what the average school gives in terms of prep time.
 
I 100% agree. I'll even go one step further and state that I think DO schools purposely set up barriers that take away from boards studying.
This isn't just a DO thing. Many of the best MD programs have crappy board prep. The best way to mitigate any barriers to success a school may impose on your dedicated study period is to walk into dedicated basically ready to take step 1. Many of the best step 1 scores are achieved by people who could have taking the exam day 1 of dedicated and still done reasonably well. I'm not saying it is easy, but there are ways around these perceived injustices imposed on DO students.
 
This isn't just a DO thing. Many of the best MD programs have crappy board prep. The best way to mitigate any barriers to success a school may impose on your dedicated study period is to walk into dedicated basically ready to take step 1. Many of the best step 1 scores are achieved by people who could have taking the exam day 1 of dedicated and still done reasonably well. I'm not saying it is easy, but there are ways around these perceived injustices imposed on DO students.

It's called not giving a damn about As in class by settling for Bs and concentrate about 80% of the time on board prep starting from Day 1 in 2nd year.
 
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I 100% agree. I'll even go one step further and state that I think DO schools purposely set up barriers that take away from boards studying.

Sweety, we get 2 months to prep. Technically 3 since the whole last month is easily available for board prep. We make up hard core for being boggled down most of the semester.
 
If Uworld is reflective then yes. First Aid is a poor man's resource for a ton of subjects.

I guess it depends on how well content was covered during M1/M2, but I'm of the opinion that a good grasp of those three resources would be more than adequate to get to 240. First Aid can't make up for learning things poorly the first time around, but it does have a lot of content.
 
My personal prediction is that we will see a more polar split between these two groups in matching than we currently see. The top students will match even better than before (due to being able to rank all of their programs) and the worse ones will probably be at a greater risk of not matching (due to loss of the safety net, i.e. The many leftover AOA FM spots)
Completely agree. Once the match is merged we will see how far that student who was using AOA as a safety net and ended up matching will really go. I suspect a lot of those DO's who get the high end AOA matches will still get the specialties in ACGME. But at the same time, the people at the middle/bottom will get pushed further towards primary care.
 
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You stated schools purposefully place barriers that take away from board studying. So, then, please explain.
I can think of one way right off the top of my head: Placing mandatory activities and classes in the middle of dedicated time that have nothing to do with step 1. Thats one way.
 
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Completely agree. Once the match is merged we will see how far that student who was using AOA as a safety net and ended up matching will really go. I suspect a lot of those DO's who get the high end AOA matches will still get the specialties in ACGME. But at the same time, the people at the middle/bottom will get pushed further towards primary care.

I suspect that generally most people in the middle and up were already hitting ACGME tbh. The difference however I suspect is where middle of the class people might formerly have gotten into an AOA GS, now it'll be harder and they will likely end up in other fields like anesthesia or neuro or possibly ob where they can still have some surgery options.

I think that speculations right now are based within the belief that the next 5 years won't also see major changes at the medical school level too. I would like to believe that the merger will affect a significant amount of how DO schools approach boards preparation and even curricula.
 
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I suspect that generally most people in the middle and up were already hitting ACGME tbh. The difference however I suspect is where middle of the class people might formerly have gotten into an AOA GS, now it'll be harder and they will likely end up in other fields like anesthesia or neuro or possibly ob where they can still have some surgery options.

I think that speculations right now are based within the belief that the next 5 years won't also see major changes at the medical school level too. I would like to believe that the merger will affect a significant amount of how DO schools approach boards preparation and even curricula.

I think that we will see that. I have it from a student ahead of me that the school I will be attending changed their curriculum to be similar to KCU, but not quite as intense. I suspect it's because they know that doing well on boards is going to be even more important than as before, even for those entering PC. Having a decent board score just opens doors in any field.
 
I can think of one way right off the top of my head: Placing mandatory activities and classes in the middle of dedicated time that have nothing to do with step 1. Thats one way.
Were these classes/activities on the academic calendar for the year, or did they come out of nowhere? I'm assuming the mandatory classes are clinical skills related?
 
Everyone here planning on getting 240+ with the secret formula of UFAP then? :laugh:

If you do the best you got and score 220, you should have no regret bc that's all you got. Who knows what you will score on the USMLE Step 1? The best course of action right now is to be as prepared as possible.
 
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Completely agree. Once the match is merged we will see how far that student who was using AOA as a safety net and ended up matching will really go. I suspect a lot of those DO's who get the high end AOA matches will still get the specialties in ACGME. But at the same time, the people at the middle/bottom will get pushed further towards primary care.

It would be a travesty for average DOs to be forced into primary care. I hope that it won't be the case. I doubt that it will be the case though.
 
It would be a travesty for average DOs to be forced into primary care. I hope that it won't be the case. I doubt that it will be the case though.
maybe not for the first 5 years as DO PDs will likely favor more Dos in their programs but as time goes on, thats whats likely to happen
 
It would be a travesty for average DOs to be forced into primary care. I hope that it won't be the case. I doubt that it will be the case though.

We have different ideas of what a travesty is....
 
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Not matching at all sounds like a travesty as opposed going FM

As I've said before, this site has a very obtuse perspective on primary care as the 8th circle of hell. Maybe I'm partial or maybe I'm just not so diluted that I would call a 50h/week job that makes over 200k a bad deal.
 
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As I've said before, this site has a very obtuse perspective on primary care as the 8th circle of hell. Maybe I'm partial or maybe I'm just not so diluted that I would call a 50h/week job that makes over 200k a bad deal.
Never said FM was bad, i was just say Travesty of average Dos going to primary care is not a travesty, not matching is
 
Personally, I think the average DO student will be hurt a little, but not much, by the merger. For example, let's say the average AOA Emergency Med residency has a 530 COMLEX Average (I have no clue what the actual average here, could be way off). With the merger, I'd expect that average COMLEX score to go up due to the new competition from MDs/IMGs applying with good board scores. So, the average DO will have a tougher time matching, but not to the point where it will completely prevent them from matching outside primary care.

The real losers of the Merger, as said above, are the DOs in the near bottom of their class with below average COMLEX scores that wanted to go outside of Primary Care. The merger will make it a lot tougher for them to get that residency. I know of a 4th year who failed COMLEX the first time and still managed to match AOA EM. I can't imagine that happening after the merger.
 
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