Do Medical Schools Care if I Am First Author on a Publication?

[Leuk]

My PI gave me the option of writing a manuscript for my research project and being named first author on the publication or have him write it and be named second or third author.

If my PI writes it, the publication will be submitted in no more than 6 weeks, enough time for medical schools to know about if I update my application. If I write it, however, it could take months and I will likely have already heard back from several schools on their final decisions.

Anyone have any advice or insight into how important being first author is?

I have a 3.18 cGPA and 31 MCAT so I feel a publication would really help a lot in putting me over the hump.

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[claduva94]

It is big, but unlikely to make a drastic difference. Ultimately your GPA and MCAT will not at all be overshadowed by a first author publication.

 

[kyamh]

I would take the first author publication - it will continue to have value even after you get into medical school.

Also, while I realize that you will not be writing as quickly as your PI, you can definitely get a first draft out to your advisor very quickly. This is "nose-to-grindstone" time. If you drain all your free and pseudo free time to writing this article, you'll get it done quickly. If you work on it 5 hours a week, yes, it will take 6 months.

 

[Leuk]

With any other PI I would agree with you but with my PI I'd be lucky if I finish in 3 months. He's an extreme perfectionist when it comes to his papers and the graduate students generally take a long time to publish papers.

 

[hoihaie]

do 1st author and get the draft done asap so your PI can edit it

 

[huskydock]

First authorship is impressive and shows ADCOMs that you put in a significant amount of work in your research and publication. It's a great thing to have on your CV, not only just for medical school admissions! That being said, it does not overshadow your low GPA and you may have some issues getting an acceptance with a 3.1-3.2.

 

[Leuk]

I see that the consensus seems to be advising me to become first author. It is certainly worth considering now that I have heard many outside opinions.

Let's just say for argument's sake that, should I decide to be first author, it will be published in February. In this hypothetical would it still be worth being first author seeing as not all of the 40 schools I'll be applying to will make their final decisions until late spring? Or would it be better to have all of the schools updated that I am second author on the paper?

Also, I'm not sure if this has been completely addressed: I am aware that being a published first author is a big deal, but is it a much bigger deal than simply being an author?

 

[claduva94]

I see that the consensus seems to be advising me to become first author. It is certainly worth considering now that I have heard many outside opinions.

Let's just say for argument's sake that, should I decide to be first author, it will be published in February. In this hypothetical would it still be worth being first author seeing as not all of the 40 schools I'll be applying to will make their final decisions until late spring? Or would it be better to have all of the schools updated that I am second author on the paper?

Also, I'm not sure if this has been completely addressed: I am aware that being a published author is a big deal, but is it a much bigger deal than simply being an author?

The problem is that it probably would be more helpful with getting an interview. And unfortunately, by February, the invites will be out. It may be worth an update if you are on a wait list though.

 

[Abstractions]

I see that the consensus seems to be advising me to become first author. It is certainly worth considering now that I have heard many outside opinions.

Let's just say for argument's sake that, should I decide to be first author, it will be published in February. In this hypothetical would it still be worth being first author seeing as not all of the 40 schools I'll be applying to will make their final decisions until late spring? Or would it be better to have all of the schools updated that I am second author on the paper?

Also, I'm not sure if this has been completely addressed: I am aware that being a published author is a big deal, but is it a much bigger deal than simply being an author?

Two things:

1) It may take much longer than you think to write the manuscript, then revise it, then find a Journal who wants to publish your findings, and finally make the necessary changes/revisions from the editors.

2) While publications strengthen applications, they do not compensate for other deficits. With a ~3.1 and a 31 MCAT, there is the very real possibility that you will get computer screened out and no person will ever look at your application; thus making your shiny new publication have no impact on your cycle.

 

[Leuk]

Two things:

1) It may take much longer than you think to write the manuscript, then revise it, then find a Journal who wants to publish your findings, and finally make the necessary changes/revisions from the editors.

2) While publications strengthen applications, they do not compensate for other deficits. With a ~3.1 and a 31 MCAT, there is the very real possibility that you will get computer screened out and no person will ever look at your application; thus making your shiny new publication have no impact on your cycle.

I guess I should add a bit more detail. I am applying as a URM though I know that people of Portuguese/Spanish descent are in a grey area when it comes to being considered Hispanic. However, I was advised to apply as URM by my pre-med advisor because of my heritage, as well as being a first generation college student and learning English as a second language. I was initially worried that this might backfire but I did get 2 interviews out of 20 schools last cycle so it does appear that some schools recognize me as a URM.

I also have a rec letter from an admissions officer for a medical school from a research fellowship I participated in a few years ago at that school. I did not have this letter last year, but I feel that it may have some sway. Unfortunately, I am not eligible to apply to that particular school because I am out of state.

So just to summarize: I know my stats aren't impressive but I don't think they would necessarily disqualify me from most schools, especially if at least some of them recognize me as URM (though some schools may think I'm gaming the system although I genuinely do not know if I am considered Hispanic or not).

 

[Frostbite22]

I would do the first author publication. I was able to produce a first author publication when I was an undergraduate. It took me six months to do, but it taught me so much. I am glad I devoted the time to doing it no matter how frustrated I was at times when I felt like I had no idea what I was doing at certain points. I think if I would've made my PI write the report, I wouldn't have as much personal gratification, but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[tantacles]

I see that the consensus seems to be advising me to become first author. It is certainly worth considering now that I have heard many outside opinions.

Let's just say for argument's sake that, should I decide to be first author, it will be published in February. In this hypothetical would it still be worth being first author seeing as not all of the 40 schools I'll be applying to will make their final decisions until late spring? Or would it be better to have all of the schools updated that I am second author on the paper?

Also, I'm not sure if this has been completely addressed: I am aware that being a published author is a big deal, but is it a much bigger deal than simply being an author?

Play the long game here. Having a first author publication will definitely matter when you're applying to residencies, so if you're capable, you should try to be the first author. Publications don't lose value after you enter medical school.

In addition, even if your first draft is completed in six weeks, there is no guarantee that this paper will be published before the year is out, or even ever. Do as much work as you can on this publication.

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

Just FYI, it can take a while to get published after submission. I submitted a manuscript in May and I'm still waiting.

 

[NickNaylor]

Just FYI, it can take a while to get published after submission. I submitted a manuscript in May and I'm still waiting.

Exactly. Getting a manuscript done in 6 weeks (or whatever) means nothing. That's just one aspect of the process; much of it you have very little control over.

If anything, this is the sort of thing that might be worth an update later on. Even if the article hasn't been accepted for publication, it's appropriate to mention that a manuscript has been made and submitted for publication.

That is, of course, ignoring the other things mentioned by others with respect to playing the long game. Pubs from college can and should be included on your residency app, and obviously it'd be impressive to have a first author pub in the mix.

 

[gyngyn]

I guess I should add a bit more detail. I am applying as a URM though I know that people of Portuguese/Spanish descent are in a grey area when it comes to being considered Hispanic. However, I was advised to apply as URM by my pre-med advisor because of my heritage, as well as being a first generation college student and learning English as a second language. I was initially worried that this might backfire but I did get 2 interviews out of 20 schools last cycle so it does appear that some schools recognize me as a URM.

.

Or they interviewed you in spite of it.

 

[Leuk]

Or they interviewed you in spite of it.

I highly doubt a program would interview someone they view as morally compromised.

I also mentioned previously to you in another thread that people of Portuguese descent are underrepresented in my area. UMass Medical School explicitly states this:
http://www.umassmed.edu/som/admissions/academic-programs/baccalaureate-md-pathway/

To my knowledge, Brown also has a similar stance. It's possible that this disadvantaged status is only recognized in the Northeast or southern New England, but I am certainly not alone in considering people of my background disadvantaged and I would appreciate not being pigeonholed as a manipulator or someone trying to game the system; you do not know me or my upbringing. Also, it's off topic and unnecessary here.

 

[NickNaylor]

I highly doubt a program would interview someone they view as morally compromised.

I also mentioned previously to you in another thread that people of Portuguese descent are underrepresented in my area. UMass Medical School explicitly states this:
http://www.umassmed.edu/som/admissions/academic-programs/baccalaureate-md-pathway/

To my knowledge, Brown also has a similar stance. It's possible that this disadvantaged status is only recognized in the Northeast or southern New England, but I am certainly not alone in considering people of my background disadvantaged and I would appreciate not being pigeonholed as a manipulator or someone trying to game the system; you do not know me or my upbringing. Also, it's off topic and unnecessary here.

 

[baxt1412]

My PI gave me the option of writing a manuscript for my research project and being named first author on the publication or have him write it and be named second or third author.

If my PI writes it, the publication will be submitted in no more than 6 weeks, enough time for medical schools to know about if I update my application. If I write it, however, it could take months and I will likely have already heard back from several schools on their final decisions.

Anyone have any advice or insight into how important being first author is?

I have a 3.18 cGPA and 31 MCAT so I feel a publication would really help a lot in putting me over the hump.

No shadowing.

it won't help get you in if you have no shadowing. i know i'm harping on this... but it truly does matter. YOU NEED TO SHADOW PHYSICIANS.

 

[Leuk]

it won't help get you in if you have no shadowing. i know i'm harping on this... but it truly does matter. YOU NEED TO SHADOW PHYSICIANS.

I know shadowing is important but, without going into detail, I have had unique experiences dealing with illness in my family that have led to me spending a lot of time in hospitals and, though I have not formally shadowed physicians, I have discussed the career with enough physicians during my stays and the hospital stays of my family members to get a pretty good idea of what it's like. I acknowledge that I can not truly know what being a physician is like without actually being one but I do think I have a pretty good impression.

But this is not the topic of this thread. I also do not spend too much time outside of lab and am currently working on several projects that may result in more publications further down the line. At the moment I do not have much free time that I can dedicate to shadowing. I do appreciate the advice, however.

 

[meander]

I know shadowing is important but, without going into detail, I have had unique experiences dealing with illness in my family that have led to me spending a lot of time in hospitals and, though I have not formally shadowed physicians, I have discussed the career with enough physicians during my stays and the hospital stays of my family members to get a pretty good idea of what it's like.

If you are lucky enough to be interviewed, you will get hammered for this. A typical question would be something like, "You have the experience of interacting with physicians as a family member of a patient, but what have you done to learn about a physician's day to day from outside of that role?" The vast majority of applicants have had the experience of either being a patient or having a close family member who was a patient, and that is a fundamentally different experience than shadowing a doctor working on patients unrelated to you. Even if your experiences have been totally sufficient for you to be 100% positive that you know what it's like to be a doctor well enough to decide to go to medical school, refusing to do real shadowing, if nothing else, shows that you are stubborn and unwilling to do something pretty easy in order to demonstrate your interest. Just check the box.

 

[Leuk]

If you are lucky enough to be interviewed, you will get hammered for this. A typical question would be something like, "You have the experience of interacting with physicians as a family member of a patient, but what have you done to learn about a physician's day to day from outside of that role?" The vast majority of applicants have had the experience of either being a patient or having a close family member who was a patient, and that is a fundamentally different experience than shadowing a doctor working on patients unrelated to you. Even if your experiences have been totally sufficient for you to be 100% positive that you know what it's like to be a doctor well enough to decide to go to medical school, refusing to do real shadowing, if nothing else, shows that you are stubborn and unwilling to do something pretty easy in order to demonstrate your interest. Just check the box.

This thread is about research and publications. I don't know how it got sidetracked to shadowing but I have said all that I would like to say about that matter. Again, I know it's important and its not news to me. It only came up in 1 out of my 2 interviews last year but, should it come up frequently, I will deal with this when the time comes.

 

[ciestar]

The fact that it came up in your interviews last year, and that you're a reapplicant and refused to address it shows poor judgment on your part.

But back to your OP, a first author pub doubtfully will make up for a poor GPA. That's your huge issue here.

 

[mimelim]

Can a first author publication 'make up' for a low GPA (GPA < 3.3)?
Yes, absolutely.

Does it in most cases?
No, absolutely not.

What determines the impact of a first author publication?
First author is only a small portion of the meaningfulness of a publication. The type of article written, the size of the article, the journal that it was published in are all critical to the importance of a paper and thus it's impact on an application. The guy who has multiple publications and a first author Science/Nature/Cell/PNAS paper is extremely different than the guy who has a first author case report in a small clinical journal. Every part of your application is a data point and the sum of those data points is your story. Publications and GPAs are simply different data points that are modified by different things, kind of publications, major/difficulty of course load etc. Some of the modifiers are are big, others are small. In the end, all that matters is that story. Are you someone worth investing time and energy in to train to be a doctor?

 

[medbunny56]

Can a first author publication 'make up' for a low GPA (GPA < 3.3)?
Yes, absolutely.

Does it in most cases?
No, absolutely not.

What determines the impact of a first author publication?
First author is only a small portion of the meaningfulness of a publication. The type of article written, the size of the article, the journal that it was published in are all critical to the importance of a paper and thus it's impact on an application. The guy who has multiple publications and a first author Science/Nature/Cell/PNAS paper is extremely different than the guy who has a first author case report in a small clinical journal. Every part of your application is a data point and the sum of those data points is your story. Publications and GPAs are simply different data points that are modified by different things, kind of publications, major/difficulty of course load etc. Some of the modifiers are are big, others are small. In the end, all that matters is that story. Are you someone worth investing time and energy in to train to be a doctor?

.

 

[DameJulie]

Does it in most cases?
No, absolutely not.

In what case does it overturn a relatively low GPA? Besides first-authoring in CNS, that is.

 

[Lawpy]

The only schools that care about research productivity are the research powerhouses/top tiers, and they have very high GPA and MCAT medians. I don't see why schools with matriculant medians in ~510 would care about first author papers since their primary focus is training students to become doctors, not physician researchers.

Someone with high research productivity but low MCAT scores should decide whether they really want to pursue medicine rather than grad school where they may be a better fit.

 

[mimelim]

Can multiple first author publications make up for a low MCAT? (504-506 range)

Can it? Yes. Does it usually? No. I would say, see the same response to the GPA previously (from 2.5 years ago )

In what case does it overturn a relatively low GPA? Besides first-authoring in CNS, that is.

It isn't about overturning anything. It is about making the applicant sufficiently 'special' that the reward is seen as high enough to overcome the associated risks of taking a lower score applicant.

The only schools that care about research productivity are the research powerhouses/top tiers, and they have very high GPA and MCAT medians. I don't see why schools with matriculant medians in ~510 would care about first author papers since their primary focus is training students to become doctors, not physician researchers.

Someone with high research productivity but low MCAT scores should decide whether they really want to pursue medicine rather than grad school where they may be a better fit.

This is not true. Every medical school the focus is to train doctors. None of them are focused on training physician researchers. A very small minority of MDs are physician researchers. Certainly, the more research oriented schools will spend more time/energy/money on the non-clinical aspects of medicine, but it is by no means all encompassing or even close to the focus of the education. Further, every school cares about research productivity. Even the lower tier schools or "primary care" focused schools value it and value it pretty heavily.

 

[Youngm2194]

what about first author review papers in journals with IF of 3.o? I know obviously a review isn't as good as a paper with bench work etc. I also am going to be 2nd author on paper in journal with IF ~20 that should be accepted sometime late in the summer, and this is one with actual data I generated etc. not a review. Will this hold any weight if I send an update with this once its accepted?

 

[Lawpy]

This is not true. Every medical school the focus is to train doctors. None of them are focused on training physician researchers. A very small minority of MDs are physician researchers. Certainly, the more research oriented schools will spend more time/energy/money on the non-clinical aspects of medicine, but it is by no means all encompassing or even close to the focus of the education. Further, every school cares about research productivity. Even the lower tier schools or "primary care" focused schools value it and value it pretty heavily.

That's surprising. I thought the reason why top schools are able to focus heavily on research and nonclinical aspects is due to a lot of funding and resources available. These are more limited in private low tier schools. I realize all MD schools should have some research focus (I think it's one of the accreditation requirements, not sure), but I thought their priority is much more heavily weighted towards clinical and volunteering aspects of the application.

Research productivity can be a positive for sure but the impact for schools whose medians stats are near national matriculant average would seem minimal to none? To have a significant impact for these schools is surprising (but definitely good news).

 

[Goro]

My PI gave me the option of writing a manuscript for my research project and being named first author on the publication or have him write it and be named second or third author.

If my PI writes it, the publication will be submitted in no more than 6 weeks, enough time for medical schools to know about if I update my application. If I write it, however, it could take months and I will likely have already heard back from several schools on their final decisions.

Anyone have any advice or insight into how important being first author is?

I have a 3.18 cGPA and 31 MCAT so I feel a publication would really help a lot in putting me over the hump.

A 3.18 GPA will make one worry that you won't survive medical school, whether you have a 1st author Cell or Nature paper or not. A submitted MS is worth nothing. You can write your name in crayon on a grocery bag and send it to Nature and it literally is "MS in submission".

You overcome a low GPA by having:

Killer ECs, a compelling life story, URM or veteran status, or a remarkable upward GPA trend, or ace a post-bac/SMP.

 

[medbunny56]

.

 

[Goro]

Is the same true for a 504 MCAT?

yes