DO students- are you happy?

[Neopolymath]

We’re taking a Clincal Skills course which is akin to OMM (minus muscle manipulation). On top of that, lectures run from 9AM to 3-5 PM. I understand the torture all too well. I doubt any doctor these days actually sticks a ruler onto a patient’s chest to measure their JVP

DO schools take a clinical skills course as well.

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[MedicineN'Jazz]

DO schools take a clinical skills course as well.

Yikes. In addition to OMM? That sucks. I can’t even imagine that tbh. CSK already occupies so much time

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Yikes. In addition to OMM? That sucks. I can’t even imagine that tbh. CSK already occupies so much time

Lol yeah, we don't do OMM instead of normal doctor things. We have OMM and PCM (principle of medicine) lectures, OMM and PCM labs, and then throw in anatomy labs on top of that...

 

[fldoctorgirl]

OMM is integrated with systems material in every year 2 course

Well that sucks...

 

[Magus5454]

Lol yeah, we don't do OMM instead of normal doctor things. We have OMM and PCM (principle of medicine) lectures, OMM and PCM labs, and then throw in anatomy labs on top of that...

So glad anatomy is done till GI

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I always recommend MD over DO. Just my two cents

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I always recommend MD over DO. Just my two cents

If you have the choice.

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[Ho0v-man]

Do you mind sharing which school?

All schools do something stupid like this at some point. Including MD. It wouldn’t be a good reason to not attend a school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

All schools do something stupid like this at some point. Including MD. It wouldn’t be a good reason to not attend a school.

It’s true. Besides the OMM complaints I’ve actually been fairly surprised at how uniform the complaints are between m friends at DO schools and the ones at MD schools. Lots of stupidity to go around.

 

[Goro]

It’s true. Besides the OMM complaints I’ve actually been fairly surprised at how uniform the complaints are between m friends at DO schools and the ones at MD schools. Lots of stupidity to go around.

As medical students, your job is to complain.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

As medical students, your job is to complain.

It’s very therapeutic

 

[Goro]

It’s very therapeutic

 

[sunshinefl]

It’s very therapeutic

Yeah my two closest class friends are at the extremes. I view them like the devil and the angel on my shoulders type of thing. I’m more moderate. I appreciate some things at my school and I’m upset at others. I don’t universally look for ways to defend them or condemn them.

 

[gensurghopeful]

School is stressful, and it sucks - I wanna party back home in the city...
But I think I'd be more stressed and genuinely unhappy with my life, if I wasn't in med school...

So whenever something sucks, I just think of that - snaps me right back into place.

Grateful I'm here, period.

 

[eberge3]

True, I should have added the caveat that for me personally it would be worth every penny.

I dont know much about AnatomyGrey12 besides seeing his posts on DO threads, but after saying "Program directors would accept a MD with a 210 USMLE but wouldn't interview a DO with a 225" he has lost all credibility with me. People saying these things should not be giving applicants advice period.

 

[Chibucks15]

I dont know much about AnatomyGrey12 besides seeing his posts on DO threads, but after saying "Program directors would accept a MD with a 210 USMLE but wouldn't interview a DO with a 225" he has lost all credibility with me. People saying these things should not be giving applicants advice period.

a pre-med saying that about a current medical student with actual knowledge of the topic he's talking about has lost all credibility with 85% of this forum (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that there are other naive pre-meds who think they know everything)

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I dont know much about AnatomyGrey12 besides seeing his posts on DO threads, but after saying "Program directors would accept a MD with a 210 USMLE but wouldn't interview a DO with a 225" he has lost all credibility with me. People saying these things should not be giving applicants advice period.

I couldn't care less about my credibility with a pre-med. It's true. Someday you will see and realize just how wrong you are

 

[eberge3]

I couldn't care less about my credibility with a pre-med. It's true. Someday you will see and realize just how wrong you are

Fortunately I know too many practicing DO's who have proven your statement wrong. NO one is saying a stigma doesnt exist. But you and others on this site are overblowing it. If you know anything about the match process any candidate with a 210 would get filtered out so I think a DO with a 225 would get that interview everytime when being compared with a MD with a 210.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Fortunately I know too many practicing DO's who have proven your statement wrong. NO one is saying a stigma doesnt exist. But you and others on this site are overblowing it. If you know anything about the match process any candidate with a 210 would get filtered out so I think a DO with a 225 would get that interview everytime when being compared with a MD with a 210.

Lol you literally know nothing. Your last statement proves it. I suggest you listen more and talk less. You have currently set up camp on top of Mount Stupid.

 

[Chibucks15]

Fortunately I know too many practicing DO's who have proven your statement wrong. NO one is saying a stigma doesnt exist. But you and others on this site are overblowing it. If you know anything about the match process any candidate with a 210 would get filtered out so I think a DO with a 225 would get that interview everytime when being compared with a MD with a 210.

You don't know anything you're talking about. There is so many variables that you haven't been exposed to. You don't know any program directors....you know practicing DOs. Once you get into practice, nobody cares about the letters. But getting into some residencies is more difficult as DO, and denying that fact just proves you're in for a rude awakening. We all know practicing DOs you aren't special

 

[eberge3]

You don't know anything you're talking about. There is so many variables that you haven't been exposed to. You don't know any program directors....you know practicing DOs. Once you get into practice, nobody cares about the letters. But getting into some residencies is more difficult as DO, and denying that fact just proves you're in for a rude awakening. We all know practicing DOs you aren't special

No one is denying that fact - but I think ppl are overblowing it. We can talk about it over lunch in the SEC on monday

 

[Goro]

I dont know much about AnatomyGrey12 besides seeing his posts on DO threads, but after saying "Program directors would accept a MD with a 210 USMLE but wouldn't interview a DO with a 225" he has lost all credibility with me. People saying these things should not be giving applicants advice period.

Grey is one of those med students who I rely upon to smack some sense into me when I start to veer off the road.

Therefore, trust his judgement.

 

[Chibucks15]

No one is denying that fact - but I think ppl are overblowing it. We can talk about it over lunch in the SEC on monday

okay? we go to the same school. I don't exactly hide it. clever though i guess? I don't change what I said

 

[eberge3]

okay? we go to the same school. I don't exactly hide it. clever though i guess? I don't change what I said

lol im just messin around. Im not denying at all there is a stigma and applicants need to know that. However if you do well on USMLE no DO will have a hard time matching maybe not u of Chicago. There are many different things that go into a residency app but board scores is the major thing everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that 210 is not a good score. A lot of applicants spend years re applying MD cycle which continues to get more rigorous (as well as DO cycle). MD has its advantages no doubt but saying an MD with a poor score has an advantage over a DO with a decent score can scare off a lot of applicants leading them to spend more $$ re applying and etc.

 

[Neopolymath]

lol im just messin around. Im not denying at all there is a stigma and applicants need to know that. However if you do well on USMLE no DO will have a hard time matching maybe not u of Chicago. There are many different things that go into a residency app but board scores is the major thing everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that 210 is not a good score. A lot of applicants spend years re applying MD cycle which continues to get more rigorous (as well as DO cycle). MD has its advantages no doubt but saying an MD with a poor score has an advantage over a DO with a decent score can scare off a lot of applicants leading them to spend more $$ re applying and etc.

What in the world am I reading?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

MD has its advantages no doubt but saying an MD with a poor score has an advantage over a DO with a decent score can scare off a lot of applicants leading them to spend more $$ re applying and etc.

They do have an advantage. Reality can sometimes be scary.

 

[Blanky]

Fortunately I know too many practicing DO's who have proven your statement wrong. NO one is saying a stigma doesnt exist. But you and others on this site are overblowing it. If you know anything about the match process any candidate with a 210 would get filtered out so I think a DO with a 225 would get that interview everytime when being compared with a MD with a 210.

You know some DOs who matched into specialties so through that you conclude that the bias and numbers he used are incorrect? Also enjoyable that you “think” a DO with over 225 would get an interview.
I am pro DO even if DMU isn’t the school I end up at next year I would be proud to one day be a DMU alumnus.

... that Dunning-Kruger had me laugh out loud in the ER at work lol I always loved the Dunning Kruger

 

[eberge3]

This is kinda a stupid hypothetical argument because most people know low USMLE scores such as 210 will put that applicant in a uphill battle to match MD and especially DO. If you put up an MD applicant who barley passed his boards vs a DO applicant to did decently well the reality is neither would end up in top programs, but the DO with the significantly better score would have better outcomes, and over exaggerating this whole stigma def scares off applicants. I was very hesitant myself. Its important to know the facts and understand the situation but not throw out over blown non backed statements. Looking at charting outcomes / PD survey will tell you all you need to know.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

most people know low USMLE scores such as 210 will put that applicant in a uphill battle to match MD and especially DO.

Not really. Matching with a 210 isn't hard if the applicant has a good application strategy.

If you put up an MD applicant who barley passed his boards vs a DO applicant to did decently well the reality is neither would end up in top programs, but the DO with the significantly better score would have better outcomes, and over exaggerating this whole stigma def scares off applicants.

Not necessarily. You are making assumptions based on nothing. Also a 210 isn't "barely passing boards," no it's not some killer score but it isn't close to 192 either. I get it, you are applying to DO programs and want that decision to be validated but you need to accept the fact that 1. You will match, DO isn't a death sentence but 2. You will likely match at a residency where your app is quite a bit better than the that of the MD residents around you in the program.

Looking at charting outcomes / PD survey will tell you all you need to know.

Charting outcomes only tells you if people match or not, it gives you nothing with regards to where people match. That is the difference we are talking about here.

 

[gensurghopeful]

What should a DO grad shoot for to match into an academic internal residency? gen surg?

Thanks.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What should a DO grad shoot for to match into an academic internal residency? gen surg?

Thanks.

Gen Surg is one of the las great bastions of bias. If you want an academic university program you will likely need a 250, research, and solid aways. Just matching GS doesn’t require that but for academic university programs then yes.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

This is kinda a stupid hypothetical argument because most people know low USMLE scores such as 210 will put that applicant in a uphill battle to match MD and especially DO

Except it's not really hypothetical, because you can just pull up the match statistics and see that you're wrong. A 210 isn't a score that will keep you from matching, especially as an MD....

 

[eberge3]

Not really. Matching with a 210 isn't hard if the applicant has a good application

Charting outcomes only tells you if people match or not, it gives you nothing with regards to where people match. That is the difference we are talking about here.

210 is not a great score, no one is re-inventing the wheel here. Applicants with a 210 are going to have a uphill battle doesn't mean they wont match. 210 is below the average USMLE score for every single type of specialty looking through MD match outcomes.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

210 is not a great score, no one is re-inventing the wheel here. Applicants with a 210 are going to have a uphill battle doesn't mean they wont match. 210 is below the average USMLE score for every single type of specialty looking through MD match outcomes.

No one said it was a great score.

 

[FutureMD96]

I'm curious as to what sort of circumstances could lead someone with stats better than the average MD accepted student to wind up going to a DO program?

A full scholarship to a DO school and no desire to go into surg

 

[eberge3]

A full scholarship to a DO school and no desire to go into surg

Surprisingly there are more people in my DO class that turned down MD programs then one would think coming in. I probably wouldn't have done so myself but it exists.

 

[DO2015CA]

 

[Osminog]

Surprisingly there are more people in my DO class that turned down MD programs then one would think coming in. I probably wouldn't have done so myself but it exists.

So what you're saying is that a lot of your classmates are liars?

 

[FutureMD96]

Surprisingly there are more people in my DO class that turned down MD programs then one would think coming in. I probably wouldn't have done so myself but it exists.

This is my current situation actually lol. Not meaning to brag or anything of the sort. 10/10 would not have chosen the DO school if it wasn't for the scholarship (in conjunction with my career aspirations).

 

[submarinegunner]

one heavy thing that goes undermentioned is the psychological impact of going DO. Most DO's I talk to say theyre happy but a good amount of that I believe is biased and not fully truthful. After all, I dont think they would come and tell me their insecurity. Being a minority in a sea of MD's WILL have some psychological impact whether you like it or not. You're physically a doctor, but mentally may not feel as satisfied. If you gave the option to DO's to convert to an MD after their degree, I bet a solid 90% would do so. No one mentions the underlying insecurity of it and the impact that can have on the physician down the line. Its almost taboo that no one wants to mention it. Hard facts.

 

[Shammyguy3]

one heavy thing that goes undermentioned is the psychological impact of going DO. Most DO's I talk to say theyre happy but a good amount of that I believe is biased and not fully truthful. After all, I dont think they would come and tell me their insecurity. Being a minority in a sea of MD's WILL have some psychological impact whether you like it or not. You're physically a doctor, but mentally may not feel as satisfied. If you gave the option to DO's to convert to an MD after their degree, I bet a solid 90% would do so. No one mentions the underlying insecurity of it and the impact that can have on the physician down the line. Its almost taboo that no one wants to mention it. Hard facts.

Pretty sure after one is in practice as an attending they couldnt give a crap about DO or MD. Its the advantages of no OMM time drain, leading up to matching into residency, and possible fellowships.

I dont think theres any insecurity whatsoever. All DO physicians ive met havent come across that way at all.

 

[Goro]

one heavy thing that goes undermentioned is the psychological impact of going DO. Most DO's I talk to say theyre happy but a good amount of that I believe is biased and not fully truthful. After all, I dont think they would come and tell me their insecurity. Being a minority in a sea of MD's WILL have some psychological impact whether you like it or not. You're physically a doctor, but mentally may not feel as satisfied. If you gave the option to DO's to convert to an MD after their degree, I bet a solid 90% would do so. No one mentions the underlying insecurity of it and the impact that can have on the physician down the line. Its almost taboo that no one wants to mention it. Hard facts.

I have yet to meet a single DO who has issues like you describe. Other doctors look at them as colleagues. As an incoming DO student, do try to avoid the self-hating DO student phenotype.

I will repeat the data that my school gets year after year from a survey at graduation, when students would have no reason to lie or dissemble to save face or sooth their egos.

~80-90% would go DO
~5-10% would go MD
~5-10% would do something else in life.

As pre-med who who still has some 7-9 months before matriculation, you should avoid the sin of solipsism.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

one heavy thing that goes undermentioned is the psychological impact of going DO. Most DO's I talk to say theyre happy but a good amount of that I believe is biased and not fully truthful. After all, I dont think they would come and tell me their insecurity. Being a minority in a sea of MD's WILL have some psychological impact whether you like it or not. You're physically a doctor, but mentally may not feel as satisfied. If you gave the option to DO's to convert to an MD after their degree, I bet a solid 90% would do so. No one mentions the underlying insecurity of it and the impact that can have on the physician down the line. Its almost taboo that no one wants to mention it. Hard facts.

I strongly advise you not to go DO! It would be career suicide for you! You’ll never match anything other than FM! You’ll also be looked down on by family and friends....

Is there anything else I can say to deter you away from becoming a DO? I really don’t want you as a future colleague!

 

[DrStephenStrange]

one heavy thing that goes undermentioned is the psychological impact of going DO. Most DO's I talk to say theyre happy but a good amount of that I believe is biased and not fully truthful. After all, I dont think they would come and tell me their insecurity. Being a minority in a sea of MD's WILL have some psychological impact whether you like it or not. You're physically a doctor, but mentally may not feel as satisfied. If you gave the option to DO's to convert to an MD after their degree, I bet a solid 90% would do so. No one mentions the underlying insecurity of it and the impact that can have on the physician down the line. Its almost taboo that no one wants to mention it. Hard facts.

Dude, what are you talking about?

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[DO2015CA]

one heavy thing that goes undermentioned is the psychological impact of going DO. Most DO's I talk to say theyre happy but a good amount of that I believe is biased and not fully truthful. After all, I dont think they would come and tell me their insecurity. Being a minority in a sea of MD's WILL have some psychological impact whether you like it or not. You're physically a doctor, but mentally may not feel as satisfied. If you gave the option to DO's to convert to an MD after their degree, I bet a solid 90% would do so. No one mentions the underlying insecurity of it and the impact that can have on the physician down the line. Its almost taboo that no one wants to mention it. Hard facts.

Troll.

 

[MacBee]

This is the same dude that started this thread: Take DO school or reapply next cycle MD?...

 

[submarinegunner]

really didnt mean to troll here. As an incoming OMS i'll probably get over it in a year or two, and by the time im a resident i wont give a **** and i'll probably laugh at the overanalyzed anxiety I currently have over going this route. Its a weird position to be in because I have never felt so accomplished yet so dissapointed at the same time. time will heal wounds

 

[DO2015CA]

really didnt mean to troll here. As an incoming OMS i'll probably get over it in a year or two, and by the time im a resident i wont give a **** and i'll probably laugh at the overanalyzed anxiety I currently have over going this route. Its a weird position to be in because I have never felt so accomplished yet so dissapointed at the same time. time will heal wounds

My experience is that those whom walked in with a chip on their shoulder are still carrying it around 4th year. I’ll let you know if it dissolves after match day.

 

[submarinegunner]

My experience is that those whom walked in with a chip on their shoulder are still carrying it around 4th year. I’ll let you know if it dissolves after match day.

Im curious if those are the kids who were trying to go uber competitive specialties and the DO made it harder for them or just those with a general insecurity of the degree

 

[DO2015CA]

Im curious if those are the kids who were trying to go uber competitive specialties and the DO made it harder for them or just those with a general insecurity of the degree

I know a couple of both. One just wants to be a hospitalist.