DO students- are you happy?

[AnatomyGrey12]

Depends. I would say for freedom of choice sure, but if you legit ended up in PC specialties because that’s what you were interested in then nah. People just have to be introspective in their desires when handed that much money in scholarships.

True, I should have added the caveat that for me personally it would be worth every penny.

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[Astharia]

I do have to say one thing: every med student needs to get over that attitude of MD better than DO because like it or not, you WILL be working with DOs as your colleagues and they will be great doctors. Half the time you may not even know they're DOs, but you should learn the respect fellow physicians and their degree paths.

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[Ho0v-man]

We’re all learning the same thing. The only reasons you should pick DO over MD is 1: if it’s a lower price or 2: if you’re aiming for a specific non-primary care specialty. I have literally seen people turn down FULL 4-YEAR SCHOLARSHIPS at DO schools, just to go to a $65k/yr MD school. All I can do is laugh. A doctor is a doctor, but $200k of debt vs $0 of debt is definitely not equal

I’d go DO in that situation. I see that as retiring a couple years early!

 

[Knight in shining armor]

I am beyond happy with my decision. Through learning osteopathic manipulation, I have learned a different method of treatment for patients with different issues. I personally have had a fair share of issues that my classmates have helped me fix. For example, I had some mid-back pain that was causing me to sleep very poorly for a few weeks. i had a student in the class above me do some OMM and my pain was greatly reduced and I could sleep well again . I learned how greatly beneficial OMM can be and I am glad I have the opportunity to help others in the same way.

 

[DO2015CA]

I am beyond happy with my decision. Through learning osteopathic manipulation, I have learned a different method of treatment for patients with different issues. I personally have had a fair share of issues that my classmates have helped me fix. For example, I had some mid-back pain that was causing me to sleep very poorly for a few weeks. i had a student in the class above me do some OMM and my pain was greatly reduced and I could sleep well again . I learned how greatly beneficial OMM can be and I am glad I have the opportunity to help others in the same way.

Do you happen to be a preclinical student?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do you happen to be a preclinical student?

lol probably a first year, they'll figure it out eventually.

 

[DO2015CA]

lol probably a first year, they'll figure it out eventually.

It’s not even if you believe it works or not, it’s just the actual utility of OMM is pretty low.

 

[Magus5454]

lol probably a first year, they'll figure it out eventually.

At LUCOM of all places.

 

[deleted946657]

Neurosurgery.

I knew I wanted surgery from day 1. I studied hard and got good board scores. I started networking during first year of medical school and got good letters of rec for residency.

I know you're really busy, but can you advise on how you found enough research in medical school to be competitive for neurosurg? Did you match a traditionally DO residency or ACGME?

 

[SpartanDOnoharm]

I ended up choosing a DO school over an MD school. I am a non-traditional student, felt like the DO school was a good fit, and also felt it would give me the opportunity to do what I wanted to do. No regrets so far, and besides learning biochemistry for the 4th time, I'm happy to be where I am.

 

[deleted943944]

Curious how DO students feel about taking both COMLEX and USMLE in regards to the residency merger. Would you feel at a disadvantage if you didn't take the USMLE? I've heard from adcoms that these two exams can be very different and the study involved with each on top of regular medical school classes worries me a bit. Without those strictly DO residencies, more DO students will likely have to take both exams right?

 

[Neopolymath]

Curious how DO students feel about taking both COMLEX and USMLE in regards to the residency merger. Would you feel at a disadvantage if you didn't take the USMLE? I've heard from adcoms that these two exams can be very different and the study involved with each on top of regular medical school classes worries me a bit. Without those strictly DO residencies, more DO students will likely have to take both exams right?

Plan to take USMLE from day 1 and take it unless you are predicted to fail by practice exams. Don't listen to people who tell you otherwise because they are either too dumb to take advice from or don't have your interests in mind.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Curious how DO students feel about taking both COMLEX and USMLE in regards to the residency merger. Would you feel at a disadvantage if you didn't take the USMLE? I've heard from adcoms that these two exams can be very different and the study involved with each on top of regular medical school classes worries me a bit. Without those strictly DO residencies, more DO students will likely have to take both exams right?

The two exams are different, but you don't necessarily have to study for both separately. Usually the rule of thumb is if you can do well on the USMLE, you can also do well on the COMLEX minus OMM. Therefore you could just study real hard for the USMLE and add a little bit OMM study for the COMLEX.

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[Goro]

Curious how DO students feel about taking both COMLEX and USMLE in regards to the residency merger. Would you feel at a disadvantage if you didn't take the USMLE? I've heard from adcoms that these two exams can be very different and the study involved with each on top of regular medical school classes worries me a bit. Without those strictly DO residencies, more DO students will likely have to take both exams right?

I recommend to my students that if they are at an 80% or higher in their preclinical GPA, and/or they are doing well in nbme shelf exams, that they take USMLE

 

[deleted943944]

thanks for the insight!

 

[gensurghopeful]

Extremely! Just happy to be here to be honest!

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Lol this thread brings back memories

 

[deleted954943]

Not always happy but always grateful. Med school is difficult and the setup of my curriculum leaves much to be desired. Remember the big picture though.

 

[Make_it_stop]

I've been debating whether or not I would like to go to DO school and how many DO schools I should apply to. I just wanted to see from current or past DO students- are you happy with your decision to go to DO school? What are your experiences with your specific school so far?

Thanks guys!

I hate BCOM. I am miserable. my health has suffered. The school is doesn't care about it's students. Its like it tries to make you miserable.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

I hate BCOM. I am miserable. my health has suffered. The school is doesn't care about it's students. Its like it tries to make you miserable.

Im sorry to hear that. Hang in there, and remember the joy you felt when you got your acceptance. That always anchors me in troubling times.

 

[Doc_Ock]

DO schools in general tend to have a lot of BS fluff that takes time away from studying for boards, OMM notwithstanding. I wish I went MD.

 

[khrd2]

Yes I am happy. I agree that if you are aiming for dermatology or surgery or radiology you should consider an MD school because those programs are what we call not very DO friendly. But I don’t regret it for a second.

 

[ChiDr]

Yes I am happy. I agree that if you are aiming for dermatology or surgery or radiology you should consider an MD school because those programs are what we call not very DO friendly. But I don’t regret it for a second.

If you look at 2018 match data,

https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...s/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Osteo.pdf


Total Osteopathic NRMP: 3,771
Rad Diag: 24/125
Surgery (Categorical) : 83/1,319
Surgery-Preliminary (PGY-1 Only): 44/ 1,363
Plastic Surg : 2/168
Derm: 0/25 spots
Otolaryngology: 3/315
Orthopedic Surgery: 5/742

That is the reality.

 

[Magus5454]

If you look at 2018 match data,

https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...s/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

Total Osteopathic: 3,771
Rad Diag: 24/125
Surgery (Categorical) : 83/1,319
Surgery-Preliminary (PGY-1 Only): 44/ 1,363
Plastic Surg : 2/168
Derm: 0/25 spots
Otolaryngology: 3/315
Orthopedic Surgery: 5/742

That is the reality.

If you were going after one of those spots there was a high chance you used the AOA match as well for now. Obviously they are gone in 2020

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

If you look at 2018 match data,

https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...s/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Osteo.pdf


Total Osteopathic NRMP: 3,771
Rad Diag: 24/125
Surgery (Categorical) : 83/1,319
Surgery-Preliminary (PGY-1 Only): 44/ 1,363
Plastic Surg : 2/168
Derm: 0/25 spots
Otolaryngology: 3/315
Orthopedic Surgery: 5/742

That is the reality.

Congrats. Your data is worthless.

 

[ChiDr]

Congrats. Your data is worthless.

How do you figure?

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

DO schools in general tend to have a lot of BS fluff that takes time away from studying for boards, OMM notwithstanding. I wish I went MD.

Honestly, we go through the same crap minus the OMM. At the end of the day, I don’t really see much difference btw the two types of schools

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

How do you figure?

For starters, how many DOs there are out of the total number of spots in any field is a useless statistic. Second, some of the numbers are actually wrong, starting with derm and rads.

 

[ChiDr]

For starters, how many DOs there are out of the total number of spots in any field is a useless statistic. Second, some of the numbers are actually wrong, starting with derm and rads.

It shows the skew. I am not sure about the data but it is straight out of NRMP published data. The data gives you a view of reality, that not many DOs match into those specialties via this route. Yes, you need to look at more data, total numbers, AOA match, scores, matched v unmatched, etc. Do your own research. Cheers.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The data gives you a view of reality,

No it doesn't. It literally doesn't tell anyone anything.

Yes, you need to look at more data, total numbers, AOA match, scores, matched v unmatched, etc. Do your own research. Cheers.

The data you presented is crap and no one should be using it at all. For anything. Also your numbers are simply wrong, as I pointed out, for derm and rads. I'll let you figure out why.

If you are going to post stats at least post meaningful stats instead of random, meaningless numbers.

 

[ChiDr]

No it doesn't. It literally doesn't tell anyone anything.



The data you presented is crap and no one should be using it at all. For anything. Also your numbers are simply wrong, as I pointed out, for derm and rads. I'll let you figure out why.

If you are going to post stats at least post meaningful stats instead of random, meaningless numbers.

Thanks for some civil discourse. Cheers. Anonymity is great.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thanks for some civil discourse. Cheers. Anonymity is great.

Lol, I'd tell you the same thing to your face. Thanks for your contribution to the thread. It's invaluable to know that 44/1363 surgical pre-lim spots went to DOs.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

If you look at 2018 match data,

https://mk0nrmpcikgb8jxyd19h.kinsta...s/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Osteo.pdf


Total Osteopathic NRMP: 3,771
Rad Diag: 24/125
Surgery (Categorical) : 83/1,319
Surgery-Preliminary (PGY-1 Only): 44/ 1,363
Plastic Surg : 2/168
Derm: 0/25 spots
Otolaryngology: 3/315
Orthopedic Surgery: 5/742

That is the reality.

Rad Diag: 24/125?!?!

Like really bro, look at page 3 of your own link! DR is 115/142...

The "reality" is if you aren't an idiot and apply with an app that looks like MD on paper you can place in DR just fine (given a good program list). A lot of SDN members are "the sky is falling" type people..... But your post makes it look like the damn rapture is taking place!

 

[ChiDr]

Rad Diag: 24/125?!?!

Like really bro, look at page 3 of your own link! DR is 115/142...

The "reality" is if you aren't an idiot and apply with an app that looks like MD on paper you can place in DR just fine (given a good program list). A lot of SDN members are "the sky is falling" type people..... But your post makes it look like the damn rapture is taking place!

Yeah, I looked at PGY1 data from the main match list, page 8. Perhaps, not true representation as other data isn’t incorporated into these values. I see the error and my post was misleading. Apologies.

 

[Isoval]

No regrets yet. Ask me on match day a few years from now.

 

[HockeyGuy2772]

Yeah, I looked at PGY1 data from the main match list, page 8. Perhaps, not true representation as other data isn’t incorporated into these values. I see the error and my post was misleading. Apologies.

You forgot to say "cheers". I can't enjoy my nightly beverage until you say it again

 

[Doc_Ock]

Honestly, we go through the same crap minus the OMM. At the end of the day, I don’t really see much difference btw the two types of schools

Don't underestimate how much of a time drain OMM is.

 

[Isoval]

Don't underestimate how much of a time drain OMM is.

It’s wholly dependent on the school. We spend like an hour and a half per week in lab and most of us wing our OSCEs because there are no penalties for remediation.

Not that I wouldn’t rather have that hour and a half per week back, but it’s not that big of a deal here.

 

[Shammyguy3]

It’s wholly dependent on the school. We spend like an hour and a half per week in lab and most of us wing our OSCEs because there are no penalties for remediation.

Not that I wouldn’t rather have that hour and a half per week back, but it’s not that big of a deal here.

Where is here?

 

[Isoval]

Where is here?

UNTHSC/TCOM

 

[fldoctorgirl]

It’s wholly dependent on the school. We spend like an hour and a half per week in lab and most of us wing our OSCEs because there are no penalties for remediation.

Not that I wouldn’t rather have that hour and a half per week back, but it’s not that big of a deal here.

Agreed. Apparently there are some schools where you can pick your technique on your CPAs. If I could do that, OMM would be almost zero stress. It's not that hard to pass the written exams, just time consuming learning 100 techniques for a CPA (and somehow, someone who studied a ton always gets the one they didn't know).

I haven't had to remediate, but by us if you do the highest grade you can get is the lowest grade allowed to pass (a 70, I believe).

 

[Isoval]

Agreed. Apparently there are some schools where you can pick your technique on your CPAs. If I could do that, OMM would be almost zero stress. It's not that hard to pass the written exams, just time consuming learning 100 techniques for a CPA (and somehow, someone who studied a ton always gets the one they didn't know).

I haven't had to remediate, but by us if you do the highest grade you can get is the lowest grade allowed to pass (a 70, I believe).

OMM is not a core class here (does not count towards ranking and honors not available), so it doesn’t really matter what grade we end with. I know a friend who had to remediate four times. No impact at all to him academically.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

OMM is not a core class here (does not count towards ranking and honors not available), so it doesn’t really matter what grade we end with. I know a friend who had to remediate four times. No impact at all to him academically.

That's awesome. TCOM doing it right.

 

[Doc_Ock]

It’s wholly dependent on the school. We spend like an hour and a half per week in lab and most of us wing our OSCEs because there are no penalties for remediation.

Not that I wouldn’t rather have that hour and a half per week back, but it’s not that big of a deal here.

you're a lucky SOB.

 

[Isoval]

you're a lucky SOB.

More than half the class has to remediate our last OSCE, including me

(Weird flex but ok)

 

[Magus5454]

Agreed. Apparently there are some schools where you can pick your technique on your CPAs. If I could do that, OMM would be almost zero stress. It's not that hard to pass the written exams, just time consuming learning 100 techniques for a CPA (and somehow, someone who studied a ton always gets the one they didn't know).

I haven't had to remediate, but by us if you do the highest grade you can get is the lowest grade allowed to pass (a 70, I believe).

Yeah, and you need a 75 on it to pass. Also 3 failures on anyone one CPA and you are repeating the class

 

[navigator]

OMM is not a core class here (does not count towards ranking and honors not available), so it doesn’t really matter what grade we end with. I know a friend who had to remediate four times. No impact at all to him academically.

That's awesome. TCOM doing it right.

you're a lucky SOB.

Ya but that being said,
A- OMM is integrated with systems material in every year 2 course
B- if you fail the OMM portion of any second year course you fail that entire block and must remediate
C- some courses, like repro or endo, have very few (i.e. less than 15) OMM questions for the entire course, so if you have a bad test day and miss a few OMM questions you're screwed for that whole block
D- bc TCOM uses the Objective Borderline Method (OBM) to determine pass/fail cut-off scores for each block, it can get kinda stressful when your OMM performance is in the borderline zone (b/w 67-78%) bc you don't know what it takes to pass the course

But!
E- most of the time, OMM questions aren't super bad and may even improve the overall course grade
F- TCOM performs better than any other school on COMLEX so maybe this madness is a good thing

It's also worth noting that apart from Med Ed, OMM/FM is basically the only remaining department at TCOM that's functional. Peds, Surgery, and IM/Geriatrics are also smoothly run departments but really only play a role during third and fourth year training. Due to dissolution or re-alignment of our clinical affiliations, all of our other prior departments, including Ortho, Rads, EM, Derm, Ob/Gyn, and Psych, are no more. What this means is that OMM/FM faculty members have a disproportionate influence in our first and second year curricula, and whether that's good or bad in our overall medical education remains to be seen

Edit: TCOM/FWMD/UNTHSC recently announced a partnership with HCA Healthcare to establish 500 GME positions in DFW so hopefully we'll soon benefit from the return of these sorely missed mentors and depts

 

[Isoval]

@navigator is absolutely correct. In fact, I know someone who is currently repeating a year because of the OMM that was integrated with the core class.

Considering that core class failure here is 2 fails/year = repeat or fail/remediation fail = repeat, it can get pretty bad with our OBM fail score determination.

But first year isn’t so bad

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

Don't underestimate how much of a time drain OMM is.

We’re taking a Clincal Skills course which is akin to OMM (minus muscle manipulation). On top of that, lectures run from 9AM to 3-5 PM. I understand the torture all too well. I doubt any doctor these days actually sticks a ruler onto a patient’s chest to measure their JVP

 

[gensurghopeful]

OMM most def a time drain... moreso now that cadavers are in play are this is only MSK block

Time is literally gold in med school - I finally understand.