I was talking specifically about residency placements, not what they do after they are residency trained and board certified. Correct me if I am wrong but "astronaut medicine" is not a specialty. Please work on your reading comprehension as I have said nothing about the individual potential to become something impressive but rather they are limited in what specialties they can choose due to some MD residency program director bias.
DO vs MD
- Thread starter Raheel Zahir
- Start date
If you read his posts closely enough, you could maybe get a hint that he is a DO student. Do they not teach reading comprehensions in school anymore?
He is obviously better than all DO students as a MD student. I mean, why advance the status of all physicians (MD or DO or MBBS) when you can rip on your counterparts instead? Who cares about midlevel encroachment and their vying for freedom of practice? Simply criticize your future coworkers, that's obviously the way to go.
D
deleted831695
I didn't say he was wrong. I'm just speaking broadly to something I've noticed here and in real life conversations.
And I wasn't trying to call him out specifically, so apologies there.
Stuff like this is part of what I'm talking about. It's full of nonsense.
It is not the norm for academically strong students to go DO. Exceptions where we see 3.9-4.0 students with a 37 mcat (someone I know of) who goes to DO does happen. Exception not the norm.
D
deleted831695
And how many MD students have a 3.9/37?
Judging from admission criteria for many MD schools, I think more than those who go to DO.
D
deleted831695
I don't know what you're trying to prove here. Yes, the collective averages of all MD schools have higher numbers than the collective averages of all DO schools. That doesn't mean the latter doesn't have hard-working, intelligent students as your post seems to suggest. Unless you want to tell me the students at say, Central Michigan for example, are so much better than the students at Michigan State (funny how I know so many people who got interviews and/or acceptances from both schools, including myself).
Fair response. We DO students ARE hardworking and intelligent, but relative to our MD colleagues? They are in an MD school, where there is a higher academic cutoff to get in. They must be at least somewhere more hardworking than we are in our studies during undergrad or postbacc. If they weren't hardworking, then I bet they are pretty intelligent that they can score high on the MCAT and do extremely well in school to make the cut off.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,321
- Reaction score
- 141
Complete and total n=1; I've had a surprisingly positive MD application cycle experience so far, with a lot more success than anticipated. I also applied DO and have not done incredibly well so far (applied early to MD and DO). I honestly think both MD and DO are extremely competitive and they both look for different things in their applicants.
D
deleted831695
Part of the reason for inequality/misinformation is because DOs inadvertently bring themselves down with these type of posts.
There's a wide range in both MD and DO worlds. Are you going to say the people who get into Harvard are the same as those who get into a 'low-tier' MD, or the people who get into MSU are the same as those who get into a brand new DO?
Are you going to say the people who got into a 'low-tier' MD are "more hardworking" than those at the established DOs? Rosalind Franklin's 2017 entering class has a 3.37 sGPA/3.49cGPA/507 MCAT. CCOM has 3.56sGPA/3.61cGPA/506 MCAT.
A
AnatomyGrey12
Dude wut? No, getting into an MD school these days is often simply a matter of not screwing yourself over when you are 18 or 19. My gpa from my freshmen and sophomore years is why I am at a DO school, yet my MCAT is higher than many of my friends at MD schools. They just didn’t screw themselves over because they had a plan and had proper guidance about how to do college, which is what I didn’t have. I worked at minimum part time my entire way through college, took a full class load every semester, and had a wife and kids. I’ll be damned if someone tells me that MD students worked harder than me simply because they are at an MD school.
A
AnatomyGrey12
Lol, no.
You cannot really think your situation is unique. I would bet that there are similar people with cases like you who worked part time in college, still did all the ECs, maybe they had a marriage and a kid, and still aced classes from year 1 of college. Both of you are hardworking, but the one who went to MD school somehow had a higher GPA by the end of it. To me, that means either they had a more efficient and effective studying method, had a photographic memory, or theyre simply smarter, which is probably unlikely.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2014
- Messages
- 2,049
- Reaction score
- 2,312
And thus far MSUCOM's average stats are 3.6 sGPA and 507 MCAT. That's currently higher than MSUCHM, CMED and apparently Rosalind Franklin from last cycle.
The current MS1 class at CCOM has a 3.68cGPA/3.62sGPA/507(new) & 31(old) MCAT average
Sigh. On average DO schools have lower gpa and mcat admission cutoffs than MD schools. Yes, CCOM, MSUCOM have high gpa and mcat, but I would argue they are the high end DO schools. Comparing them to lower tier MD schools mean nothing.
A
AnatomyGrey12
Actually my situation is fairly unique first of all. How many people in your medical school class is married with kids? Few. I laugh that you think it’s not unique to work part time and have a family while being a full-time pre-med. Of course I’m not the only one, but it is definitely a small minority. Second of all you are making huge sweeping generalizations comparing MD students do DO students that simply don’t apply. You also completely neglected my statement about how getting into a MD school is largely a measure of how early you knew you wanted to go to medical school and if you understood what they meant. To get into an MD school you can’t have any slip ups.
Is there a difference between the inate academic ability between a HMS student and LUCOM? Well duh. Is there a wide difference between the student populations at Drexel and KCU? No. Of course there will be stratification, there is at every level, but don’t act like every MD student is better than their DO counterpart simply because one is at an MD school and the other a DO.
Ok I’ll state it clearer, your comment is laughable. I interviewed at a wide spectrum of programs, and yes while everyone has a different mission they are all trying to take the people they think will make the best doctors.
So you’re going to selectively pick out the worst DO programs and use it to generalize all of them?
Last edited by a moderator:
You sound mad and I did not mean to offend. I know of so many people in my class who has kids and I admire them for having families while being in med school. Two people I know just recently have newborns while they were in second year. However, you cannot say that your situation is the most unique. I personally know of a family friend who worked, had a family, did post bacc, studied for mcat, and still got into a top tier MD school. I would bet that there are many who share your stories and have similar if not tougher background than you who did get into an MD school. Both of you worked hard, but the result is that they got in at a school with a higher cutoff.
All I am saying is what has been established already. On average as a whole, MD schools have a slightly higher gpa and mcat cutoff than DO schools, and therefore, on average, MD applicants are theoretically more competitive academically. This could mean either they are more hardworking, have better study methods and habits, more disciplined, smarter, or just knew they wanted to be a physician way earlier in the game, or whatever. Remember, their successes with being accepted in MD schools do not tarnish our accomplishment in getting into DO schools.
All I am saying is what has been established already. On average as a whole, MD schools have a slightly higher gpa and mcat cutoff than DO schools, and therefore, on average, MD applicants are theoretically more competitive academically. This could mean either they are more hardworking, have better study methods and habits, more disciplined, smarter, or just knew they wanted to be a physician way earlier in the game, or whatever. Remember, their successes with being accepted in MD schools do not tarnish our accomplishment in getting into DO schools.
Last edited:
D
deleted831695
Those aren't mutually exclusive reasons. A school can aim to produce high-quality physicians while attempting to be a "healing ministry of Jesus Christ" (I'm assuming this is LUCOM, which everyone seems to dislike here). Did they say "hippie"? Because culture and fit are criteria in both DO and MD. The last quote is a bit odd, but I'm assuming the intention was promoting teamwork/helping future colleagues out, which is perfectly reasonable.
You went from saying us future DOs are doomed to fill one of the lower paying specialtiess to saying only super duper hardworking intelligent students went to MD schools and later proclaiming DOs weren't as hardworking as their MD counterparts before finally reaching this conclusion. All in the space of one thread. Either impressive trolling or you might have actually learned something.
Also you forgot the important reasons of location, cost of attendance, and proximity to loved ones. Those are major reasons why DOs with MD acceptances stick with DO.
Not trolling, most impressive generalization really. Again, read the NRMP program director survey. And yes, nothing I have said really contradict what I said now and I still stand by what I wrote.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2017
- Messages
- 492
- Reaction score
- 656
Did you interview at any of the lower ranking DO programs?
Flavor is fine. Intense spice detracts from mission of producing high quality physicians
D
deleted831695
The NRMP survey didn't say any of the nonsensical claims you've made in this thread.
Every school aims to produce the best physician possible. One school might feel a certain approach is better at accomplishing that. I guarantee you there are some MD schools that have "intense spice" as well.
There is a section where it shows the percentage of program directors at competitive specialties that would never or seldom interview osteopathic school graduates. The numbers are quite high.
Natural Killer Cell, are you a medical student or still a premed?
Natural Killer Cell, are you a medical student or still a premed?
Last edited:
I think these threads need to be gone with. Any USMD student that takes every oppurtunity to bash the DO degree has issues of their own. Not saying any of the above posters were/are. My explanation to the few DO bashers is that they really cling to their MD label and perhaps they went to medical school for reasons more leaned towards prestige. It will be unfortunate when these same students begin to practice and quickly notice that the patients love that "wholistic Doc". Or when they try to grab a date with the hottie working on the first floor, but later find out the DO already beat em to it. They might cry " but I'm an MD" ,to which the hottie might reply "who gives a ****, you're awkward". It will be a sad moment when they realize that no one really cares whether you're DO or MD. Or when a DO begins to beat you in other aspects of life. Having either label does not make you a better physician or individual.
Last edited:
D
deleted831695
I mean there is some correlations unless you lack skills in reading data. Oh, I see, MSUCOM 2021. I always like to check my sources to see if they are reliable or not. In this case, maybe not.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
Trolling is unwise when you’re already on probation.
I mean, have you seen the stuff they posted? I guess I will stay off this thread. There are better things to spend my time on for a Friday night.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2000
- Messages
- 39,952
- Reaction score
- 18,717
You can ignore them you know.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2012
- Messages
- 5,456
- Reaction score
- 4,226
The point the posters are making here are that those people either never made a mistake or they never screwed up that royally have a far easier time getting into an MD school. Those that have screwed up but have improved themselves later on are yet judged by that mistake, thus are out of the MD game. Its like having bad grades is no different than having a felony. You are dinged for those mistakes for the rest of your life.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
- Messages
- 46
- Reaction score
- 34
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2015
- Messages
- 1,589
- Reaction score
- 1,594
Bro, Goro's a cat.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2010
- Messages
- 72,617
- Reaction score
- 115,657
Let's not go into TOS violation land.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
- Messages
- 46
- Reaction score
- 34
Oh, sorry, didn't know that was a violation of TOS. I'm not trying to personally identify you, I assumed you had made it known which school you work for. Based on some of your posts, I can see why you don't want your employer to know (smart).
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
- Messages
- 4,303
- Reaction score
- 7,920
Uggggggggh, one of these threads again.
I agree with anyone who says that MD schools keep more doors open for residency than DO schools. I will never argue against that.
I take issue when you start to suggest DO students are less hardworking than MD students. I have over a 3.8 GPA and over 505 MCAT. This is with over 120 credits at a 4-year university's honors college. I busted my butt and have never gotten less than an A in an upper-level biology class. Like many people have pointed out, these are stats that could probably get me into schools like Loma Linda, Rosalind Franklin, etc. I did not want to attend any of those schools, for various reasons including their missions and/or other things. Many state MD schools have median stats below mine, but I did not bother applying because it is very hard to get into an OOS public and I don't have the luxury of having unlimited funds to spend on apps; I chose where I applied wisely. I could have studied for an MCAT retake and taken a gap year, but I did not want to lose a year of earnings so that I could have the letters MD behind my name instead of DO. Again, not all of us are fortunate enough to have unlimited funds. Lastly, for geographic reasons, there are some DO schools that I would more than likely choose over MD schools because they are close to my family.
Are there some schools where the DO students are "less hardworking" than at MD schools? Sure, maybe, if you want to use that phrasing. But, like others have posted, you're picking data points that validate your view and ignoring those that don't. That's not how statistics works. I'm pretty sure there are many students at DO schools who have higher stats than those at MD schools (I think madjack, a user on here, had like a 37 MCAT, for example). I'm also sure that there are many students at MD schools with higher stats than those at DO schools. It goes both ways. Don't assume that because someone chose a DO school, they're not hardworking, intelligent, or driven. That's just insulting.
/rant over
I agree with anyone who says that MD schools keep more doors open for residency than DO schools. I will never argue against that.
I take issue when you start to suggest DO students are less hardworking than MD students. I have over a 3.8 GPA and over 505 MCAT. This is with over 120 credits at a 4-year university's honors college. I busted my butt and have never gotten less than an A in an upper-level biology class. Like many people have pointed out, these are stats that could probably get me into schools like Loma Linda, Rosalind Franklin, etc. I did not want to attend any of those schools, for various reasons including their missions and/or other things. Many state MD schools have median stats below mine, but I did not bother applying because it is very hard to get into an OOS public and I don't have the luxury of having unlimited funds to spend on apps; I chose where I applied wisely. I could have studied for an MCAT retake and taken a gap year, but I did not want to lose a year of earnings so that I could have the letters MD behind my name instead of DO. Again, not all of us are fortunate enough to have unlimited funds. Lastly, for geographic reasons, there are some DO schools that I would more than likely choose over MD schools because they are close to my family.
Are there some schools where the DO students are "less hardworking" than at MD schools? Sure, maybe, if you want to use that phrasing. But, like others have posted, you're picking data points that validate your view and ignoring those that don't. That's not how statistics works. I'm pretty sure there are many students at DO schools who have higher stats than those at MD schools (I think madjack, a user on here, had like a 37 MCAT, for example). I'm also sure that there are many students at MD schools with higher stats than those at DO schools. It goes both ways. Don't assume that because someone chose a DO school, they're not hardworking, intelligent, or driven. That's just insulting.
/rant over
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2017
- Messages
- 2,283
- Reaction score
- 2,450
As a Master degree chemist, I've had several pre-meds (MD and DO) go through my lab at the university that were absolutely atrocious. Some excellent too. One student who got accepted to medical school could not tell the difference between a benzyl and phenyl group. LOL. (MD student)
That being said, it is what it is. People love to tier themselves in ALL aspects of life. Medical schools is not an exception.
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2017
- Messages
- 2,283
- Reaction score
- 2,450
No, I drew the conclusion based on MANY incidences.
Then, I specified ONE instance.
Only 250k+ lifetime earning? That's depressing
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2017
- Messages
- 2,283
- Reaction score
- 2,450
That's a lot of assumptions in one post.
Also makes me wonder if that's all you see in physicians. We should do the job because we have the intelligence and ability to help patients live a healthier life.
If you're entering medicine because of money, you're entering for all the wrong reasons. With an average over 10 years to pay back debt, you'd be better off using that intelligence of yours to build a business if all you want is money and status.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2016
- Messages
- 2,518
- Reaction score
- 6,174
This 100%. Much more to the story than just stats
