Doctor with Asperger's

Started by urbanclassic
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scarshapedstar said:
:laugh:

If he's a savant then no amount of interviewing will hide it. I knew a kid like that in high school, he's getting a math Ph. D at Caltech now. Staggeringly brilliant at math...

...couldn't write a complete sentence. I know because I proofread -- well, okay, wrote -- his papers. And Zelda puzzles... jesus, he'd come get me every 5 minutes. His mind was like a bullet train, and if you tried to turn it 90 degrees, it would jump off the rails.
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yeah another part of me is pretty rebellious. yes, there are billions of people smarter than me. that doesn't mean i can't live a good life and be happy. so ok, i'll work hard. i won't have that guy's 4.0/43, but i might go to some med school, and i'd still be happy with family practice.

IMO OP, if you're legit asperger, there's a good chance people around you would have noticed it by now, or it would have shown through your sheer brilliance or uniqueness. otherwise, you're just like me--a wannabe. :laugh:
 
Being socially inept can have a drastic effect on everything and people with aspergers are known to have a larger degree of that.
 
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synthmonsterjax said:
i feel pretty stupid next to people like him. i often wish we could trade, because he can work on interview skills, but i can't turn myself into a genius. academically, he'll get there, and that's a big percent of the battle. people like me try hard but struggle. 🙁
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That's a big if. A 42 on the MCAT will make you very attractive, but if you obviously have big problems with communicating and empathy, it could lead to rejections in spite of the massive score. Even if he gets in, getting through the clinical years will be a challenge to say the least, and there is a real possibility of failure. I imagine that if he manages to survive that things could be made difficult without good letters of rec and poor performance those two years. I've been told by multiple residents that no board score will guarantee you a place in their residency if the faculty doesn't like you from your interview; they would prefer a less competitive applicant they find pleasant to work with and reliable over than being stuck with someone with a superstar board score that they hate working with, for the years they're in residency.

I'm not saying autistic people can't get into, and through medical school, just that there are some pretty steep hurdles to be faced.
 
mishaS said:
That's a big if. A 42 on the MCAT will make you very attractive, but if you obviously have big problems with communicating and empathy, it could lead to rejections in spite of the massive score. Even if he gets in, getting through the clinical years will be a challenge to say the least, and there is a real possibility of failure. I imagine that if he manages to survive that things could be made difficult without good letters of rec and poor performance those two years. I've been told by multiple residents that no board score will guarantee you a place in their residency if the faculty doesn't like you from your interview; they would prefer a less competitive applicant they find pleasant to work with and reliable over than being stuck with someone with a superstar board score that they hate working with, for the years they're in residency.

I'm not saying autistic people can't get into, and through medical school, just that there are some pretty steep hurdles to be faced.
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Yeah, I was gonna say, residency is where lack of social awareness really becomes a problem.

Well, okay, obligatory "outside patho/radio of course".
 
Okay, so I've already gotten into some medical schools, and my stats weren't perfect or even really amazing, so I guess I was not socially awkward enough in the interviews to raise any red flags.
I guess I just started this thread for some reassurance. Thanks everyone, again.
 
You have to know how severe your situation is before you start planning for medical school, that way you wont get your hopes up and be devastated if it turns out that you can't enter medicine.
 
kristinairene said:
You have to know how severe your situation is before you start planning for medical school, that way you wont get your hopes up and be devastated if it turns out that you can't enter medicine.
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Why wouldn't I be able to enter medicine? Do you mean, I wouldn't be able to enter medical school or what?
 
urbanclassic said:
Why wouldn't I be able to enter medicine? Do you mean, I wouldn't be able to enter medical school or what?
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I think he means getting to clinical's after the first two years and it hindering your advancement. Like failing clinical's or something if your case was extreme. But since this thread I suspect you don't have to worry about it.
 
urbanclassic said:
Okay, so I've already gotten into some medical schools, and my stats weren't perfect or even really amazing, so I guess I was not socially awkward enough in the interviews to raise any red flags.
I guess I just started this thread for some reassurance. Thanks everyone, again.
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If it helps, you're probably not even an Aspie 😉
 
synthmonsterjax said:
yeah another part of me is pretty rebellious. yes, there are billions of people smarter than me. that doesn't mean i can't live a good life and be happy. so ok, i'll work hard. i won't have that guy's 4.0/43, but i might go to some med school, and i'd still be happy with family practice.

IMO OP, if you're legit asperger, there's a good chance people around you would have noticed it by now, or it would have shown through your sheer brilliance or uniqueness. otherwise, you're just like me--a wannabe. :laugh:
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I have it and no one noticed.
Why would you want to have it? You will most likely not even get past the interview.
 
BiopsychStudent said:
Aspergers no longer exists. It was removed from DSM V.
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So I will be officially considered autist... FML!
And imagine me applying to med school with this on my application (you may have to disclose disability, and my university already knows I have Asperger's, and they have a med school). But that shouldn't be a problem I think, because I'm not applying to medicine, I can't be a doctor.
 
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Robin des Bois said:
So I will be officially considered autist... FML!
And imagine me applying to med school with this on my application (you may have to disclose disability, and my university already knows I have Asperger's, and they have a med school). But that shouldn't be a problem I think, because I'm not applying to medicine, I can't be a doctor.
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Or you could be considered basically normal, on the low end of the social scale (me too!) but with your heart in the right place.
 
kpcrew2oo2 said:
fmSB3.gif
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Hands down one of the most disturbing SP episodes I have seen. The fact that it wasn't the most disturbing just goes to show you how messed up that show is...

Sorry, carry on...
 
scarshapedstar said:
Or you could be considered basically normal, on the low end of the social scale (me too!) but with your heart in the right place.
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I was officially diagnosed with Asperger's by a psychologist. That adcoms wouldn't care about where is your heart, but about what's written about you, so they will automatically reject my application once they see Asperger's syndrome, they wouldn't even bother allow me to the interview.
Also, if you have bad social skills (especially if you are autist), you can't become a doctor, how hard you try, you won't become normal.
 
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Robin des Bois said:
I was officially diagonized with Asperger's by a psychologist. That adcoms wouldn't care about where is your heart, but about what's written about you, so they will automatically reject my application once they see Asperger's syndrome, they wouldn't even bother allow me to the interview.
Also, if you have bad social skills (especially if you are autist), you can't become a doctor, how hard you try, you won't become normal.
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Do you have to disclose that you are autistic?
 
dr zaius said:
Do you have to disclose that you are autistic?
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My university (Universite de Montreal) knows that I have Asperger's, and they have a med school. Since I'm francophone, I'm limited in my choice of schools. Also, Asperger's imply poor motor skills, if during med school, I start experiencing difficulties doing manual stuff, what should I tell them?
Plus, I don't see how someone who ignore social cues, and who does mistakes without even paying attention that what he's doing is wrong can become a doctor.
 
Robin des Bois said:
My university (Universite de Montreal) knows that I have Asperger's, and they have a med school. Since I'm francophone, I'm limited in my choice of schools. Also, Asperger's imply poor motor skills, if during med school, I start experiencing difficulties doing manual stuff, what should I tell them?
Plus, I don't see how someone who ignore social cues, and who does mistakes without even paying attention that what he's doing is wrong can become a doctor.
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There are people in my class who are incredibly clumsy and lacking in dexterity. That became painfully obvious last year during cadaver dissections. So you don't go into surgery. There are plenty of other non-surgical specialties. There are also a few people in my class that are incredibly socially awkward.

Did you apply before and were rejected? Or is your scenario what you think will happen if you apply?

If you have the appropriate grades and MCAT and you're fit enough to make it passed the interview there is no reason to reject you based on your diagnosis.
 
dr zaius said:
There are people in my class who are incredibly clumsy and lacking in dexterity. That became painfully obvious last year during cadaver dissections. So you don't go into surgery. There are plenty of other non-surgical specialties. There are also a few people in my class that are incredibly socially awkward.

Did you apply before and were rejected? Or is your scenario what you think will happen if you apply?

If you have the appropriate grades and MCAT and you're fit enough to make it passed the interview there is no reason to reject you based on your diagnosis.
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I didn't apply yet (no, not because of this). Also, I could still try to apply, but clerkship could be Hell for me if I manage to get in (and the interview will be really hard, I don't even know how to show empathy and how to communicate efficiantly).
As for surgery, I am not thinking of doing it anyways, kinds of freaks me out having to "play" with the body of a living human being.
 
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Robin des Bois said:
So I will be officially considered autist... FML!
And imagine me applying to med school with this on my application (you may have to disclose disability, and my university already knows I have Asperger's, and they have a med school). But that shouldn't be a problem I think, because I'm not applying to medicine, I can't be a doctor.
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Christ all mighty. So many things I hate about psychiatry and the general public in one little, neat and tidy package.

If you are so concerned about your diagnosis I would highly recommend you start reading up on the history of psychiatry, psychology and the politics involved in what makes a 'mental disorder' a 'mental disorder'. Simply being on the autistic spectrum doesn't mean anything. It's a matter of severity and how well you can keep your **** together. If your ASD is so bad that you're going to inappropriately spaz at patients over petty crap, can't speak properly or have problems adhering to a busy schedule and have no means to correct any of these things then maybe medicine isn't for you.
 
PhiPhenomenon said:
Christ all mighty. So many things I hate about psychiatry and the general public in one little, neat and tidy package.

If you are so concerned about your diagnosis I would highly recommend you start reading up on the history of psychiatry, psychology and the politics involved in what makes a 'mental disorder' a 'mental disorder'. Simply being on the autistic spectrum doesn't mean anything. It's a matter of severity and how well you can keep your **** together. If your ASD is so bad that you're going to inappropriately spaz at patients over petty crap, can't speak properly or have problems adhering to a busy schedule and have no means to correct any of these things then maybe medicine isn't for you.
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No, I don't have any of these, the busy schedule could be hard because of my ADHD (but that can be fixed, there are people with ADHD in medicine).
Autism spectrum has high stigma associated with it, only some of my very close friends know I have Asperger's syndrome because of how it's negatively judged (I even prefer to use NVLD to refer to my condition, it sounds like ugly).
There's also the MMI where I will have to play roles and stuff.
 
Robin des Bois said:
No, I don't have any of these, the busy schedule could be hard because of my ADHD (but that can be fixed, there are people with ADHD in medicine).
Autism spectrum has high stigma associated with it, only some of my very close friends know I have Asperger's syndrome because of how it's negatively judged (I even prefer to use NVLD to refer to my condition, it sounds like ugly).
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I would highly recommend you visit a few 'aspie' sites and see how well a lot of those people take to being called 'disabled', 'diseased' or 'crazy'.

I'll let you in on a little secret: no one is going to give a rat's ass if you are ASD, no one even has to know you are ASD, in fact, if you can carry on in conversation and maintain appropriate social mannerisms no one is even going to know you have ASD. The only time anyone is ever going to care that you are ASD is if your case is so sever it impacts your ability to function.
 
Robin des Bois said:
I didn't apply yet (no, not because of this). Also, I could still try to apply, but clerkship could be Hell for me if I manage to get in (and the interview will be really hard, I don't even know how to show empathy and how to communicate efficiantly).
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Imo, the chances of you being the least socially capable applicant in history are nil. There are people who could have been diagnosed as having Asperger's, but never were, and won't be 'rounded up' to full blown autistic. One resident I volunteered with was probably in that category; either that or he'd come to clinic after chugging a bottle of cough syrup.

Have you ever worked at a free clinic, or anywhere else where you have actual patient interaction? If you're going to convince yourself you're not capable of this work it ought to be due to your own experience rather than a broad label.
 
scarshapedstar said:
Imo, the chances of you being the least socially capable applicant in history are nil. There are people who could have been diagnosed as having Asperger's, but never were, and won't be 'rounded up' to full blown autistic. One resident I volunteered with was probably in that category; either that or he'd come to clinic after chugging a bottle of cough syrup.

Have you ever worked at a free clinic, or anywhere else where you have actual patient interaction? If you're going to convince yourself you're not capable of this work it ought to be due to your own experience rather than a broad label.
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No, never did any of these. Shadowing a doctor is hard to obtain (but I can try shadowing a dentist, McGill offers shadowing opportunities at their clinic). There's also hospital volunteering, but I don't know what you can do there, it might seem somehow boring because there's nearly nothing you can do.
 
Robin des Bois said:
No, never did any of these. Shadowing a doctor is hard to obtain (but I can try shadowing a dentist, McGill offers shadowing opportunities at their clinic). There's also hospital volunteering, but I don't know what you can do there, it might seem somehow boring because there's nearly nothing you can do.
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There's a bunch of legal ramifications in trying to shadow a doc up here in Canada. Do you want to go to school in Canada or the US? If Canada, I wouldn't worry about shadowing a doctor.
 
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PhiPhenomenon said:
There's a bunch of legal ramifications in trying to shadow a doc up here in Canada. Do you want to go to school in Canada or the US? If Canada, I wouldn't worry about shadowing a doctor.
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I will just apply to Canada, US is too costy, and it would be hard securing a huge loan, plus, my education is in French.
About shadowing a doc, too bad I'm not a McGill student, their premed club offers shadowing.
 
You should learn the skills to overcome your problems. Don't use your condition as an excuse.
 
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I'm quite certain that 2 of the attending surgeons that I work with have Aspergers. They're very successful, not much for the small talk though, and they miss a lot of sarcasm.🙂 They could both operate on my kids. Good luck, as long as you're on the high end of the spectrum you'll be fine.

Regards,
Il Destriero
 
Robin des Bois said:
What I meants is too isn't it too late at my age?
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Isn't what too late? There's not going to be some glorious day when you can proclaim yourself Officially Totally Average, but you face a series of discrete challenges - at this point, yes, your interview is chief among them - interspersed with lengthy spans where you really just need to be smart. Right now though it's still 90% grades and MCAT that will basically make this decision for you.
 
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scarshapedstar said:
Isn't what too late? There's not going to be some glorious day when you can proclaim yourself Officially Totally Average, but you face a series of discrete challenges - at this point, yes, your interview is chief among them - interspersed with lengthy spans where you really just need to be smart. Right now though it's still 90% grades and MCAT that will basically make this decision for you.
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I was talking about communication skills, I don't see how you could acquire them at my age. Also, even if I manage to get in, will I be able to survive clerkship?
 
It seems many medschool classes are hotbeds of psychiatric diagnoses and neuro--atypical students. Almost as though the adcoms select for them. There are theories out there that would support this observation--for example that with increase in spatial-temporal skills/analytical personality comes a decrease in emotional or other types of intelligence, as though it were a zero sum situation.

See http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/ethics/when-engineers-genes-collide

Quite an interesting article about the increased rates of autism in places like Silicon Valley where engineers marry and reproduce.
 
Robin des Bois said:
I was talking about communication skills, I don't see how you could acquire them at my age. Also, even if I manage to get in, will I be able to survive clerkship?
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Maybe? Again, there's you and then there's a broad description in a soon-to-be-deleted chapter in the DSM. Nobody here can tell you if you've got the skills. We can only tell you that you don't have a scarlet letter like you seem to think and that people somewhat comparable to you have made it as doctors. It's possible that you communicate and empathize better than you realize - everyone's on a spectrum.
 
Saw a neuropsy for my ADHD. Conclusion: because of my AS, I should forget med school and everything that is non-verbal. My poor communications skills won't help.
I suck at all the things that interest me. I'm someone who'se interested in stuff that require non-verbal reasoning, like medicine, computer programming, and maybe law.
 
synthmonsterjax said:
i guess i know guys like this. one such kid sits next to me in chem. rocks back and forth constantly. completes tests like 2x faster than me. writes down no work, seems to do a lot of calculations in his head. he'll probably completely destroy the mcat.

i feel pretty stupid next to people like him. i often wish we could trade, because he can work on interview skills, but i can't turn myself into a genius. academically, he'll get there, and that's a big percent of the battle. people like me try hard but struggle. 🙁
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It is possible to teach people to learn how to learn, and to increase the speed at which you do it. Some are naturally faster, but you can catch up.

I don't think anybody really secretly wants to be a high-functioning Aspie. You just think you do, grass is always greener ;p
 
I'm pretty sure every medical school has students that display at least some traits of Asperger's. I definitely knew some people that have trouble empathizing, gauging emotional/social cues. etc. that are in med school.
 
urbanclassic said:
Hi,

I'm a young woman who might have asperger's and wants to become a doctor.

I know it's kind of weird at my age to think I have Asperger's because Asperger's is usually diagnosed at a younger age, but since Asperger's manifest itself a little differently in females than in males, it's not uncommon for it to go undiagnosed for a long time, if at all, in females. It's harder to diagnose girls because girls tend to be more socialized by society than boys so girls tend to know social cues, how not be rude, etc.

Anyway, I just wanted get some opinions on what people here thought about someone with asperger's going to medical school and becoming a doctor?
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You should not be asking our opinion of whether or not you would make a good doctor for ANY reason. Every single person here has been written off as a physician by SOMEone, even though in most cases it was never explicit. At the end of the day, you need to - after shadowing - figure out your perception of what a physician should be, and if you are capable of filling those shoes despite any social handicap you may possess. My gut reaction is that you are more than able, but I don't know you. I would certainly agree that Asperger's - and especially autism itself - would preclude many from being a good doctor, but I believe many can overcome those difficulties and succeed in practicing medicine. It really comes down to you.
 
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Robin des Bois said:
Saw a neuropsy for my ADHD. Conclusion: because of my AS, I should forget med school and everything that is non-verbal. My poor communications skills won't help.
I suck at all the things that interest me. I'm someone who'se interested in stuff that require non-verbal reasoning, like medicine, computer programming, and maybe law.
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Nevermind. I will still to medicine. The neuropsy didn't do med school, and I wonder how she can predict I will fail or hate it.

Also, is it true that you need to be gifted to do research (or research in medicine) like my neuropsy said (I'm average intelligence according to her)?
 
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