does the importance of AOA differ for different residency specialties?

[creamfreesh]

E.g., do Ortho residency programs care more about AOA status then say, Otolaryngology? I know AOA membership is a boon no matter what you wish to match in, but I have heard this from certain people that AOA status is valued differently by different specialties and have no idea if there's actually any merit to that idea, or if it is all bunk.

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[Rekt]

E.g., do Ortho residency programs care more about AOA status then say, Otolaryngology? I know AOA membership is a boon no matter what you wish to match in, but I have heard this from certain people that AOA status is valued differently by different specialties and have no idea if there's actually any merit to that idea, or if it is all bunk.

The % of residents that have AOA for things such as derm/ortho/plastics/etc can easily have 30-40%, where things like IM have around 10-15% AOA. So yeah, it does.

 

[lampshade4u]

The % of residents that have AOA for things such as derm/ortho/plastics/etc can easily have 30-40%, where things like IM have around 10-15% AOA. So yeah, it does.

but couldn't this just be from self-selection... those who tend to be AOA also tend to apply to derm/ortho/plastics/etc.... also how can you know if AOA was even a deciding factor when those with AOA will also have good grades, step 1, and research

 

[DrBowtie]

but couldn't this just be from self-selection... those who tend to be AOA also tend to apply to derm/ortho/plastics/etc.... also how can you know if AOA was even a deciding factor when those with AOA will also have good grades, step 1, and research

It's not the deciding factor, but it becomes a defacto requirement in some specialties to get top notch programs.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

It's not the deciding factor, but it becomes a defacto requirement in some specialties to get top notch programs.

This. At my school's derm program, the chairman has straight up said you're not going to match there unless you're AOA.

 

[IM88]

The % of residents that have AOA for things such as derm/ortho/plastics/etc can easily have 30-40%, where things like IM have around 10-15% AOA. So yeah, it does.

Remember that "top" IM residencies also value AOA highly (eg. Northwestern IM has ~30-50% AOA membership per residency class http://www.medicine.northwestern.edu/education/residency/about-residency/class-of-2019.html). I think students have a tendency to convince themselves they'll "settle" for a "top" IM program if they don't have the scores/grades for other competitive specialties, but that's not so easy either.

 

[Traumahawk]

How does this work if you attend one of the many schools that don't offer a chapter of AOA? Would you have to be that much of a gunner to recruit a bunch of similarly gunner-minded friends and faculty to apply to start a chapter for the sole purpose of buffing your application to these AOA-or-bust programs*, or is there another qualifier that could be used in place of AOA? Or, simply accept that you won't match there and apply elsewhere?

* I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn that someone, somewhere has actually done this.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

This. At my school's derm program, the chairman has straight up said you're not going to match there unless you're AOA.

That's, for lack of a better word, stupid.

I don't think anyone in my specialty (not derm) cares about AOA.

 

[WilliamofOckham]

Yes. Derm is particularly notorious for self-pleasuring themselves in having as many AOA students as possible. It's a requirement to even interview at some programs.

(I'm not sure what the utility is. As someone who's AOA, I can say that while Junior AOA nominees tend to be impressive, Senior AOAs in my school seemed to be based a great degree on student "citizenship." But even for Junior AOA, if a student has honored almost all of the preclinicals and clinicals and has a killer Step score, what does AOA tell you? Nothing, really.)

 

[creamfreesh]

Yes. Derm is particularly notorious for self-pleasuring themselves in having as many AOA students as possible. It's a requirement to even interview at some programs.

(I'm not sure what the utility is. As someone who's AOA, I can say that while Junior AOA nominees tend to be impressive, Senior AOAs in my school seemed to be based a great degree on student "citizenship." But even for Junior AOA, if a student has honored almost all of the preclinicals and clinicals and has a killer Step score, what does AOA tell you? Nothing, really.)

My understanding was that AOA was not differentiated during the application and selection process; i.e., there is no way to know whether someone who marks "AOA membership" on their application was either Junior or Senior AOA ... save actually asking about it specifically during the interview. Am I mistaken in this assumption?

 

[WilliamofOckham]

My understanding was that AOA was not differentiated during the application and selection process; i.e., there is no way to know whether someone who marks "AOA membership" on their application was either Junior or Senior AOA ... save actually asking about it specifically during the interview. Am I mistaken in this assumption?

Not necessarily, although in the "honors and awards" section in ERAS (I believe there is one), I did specify it... Probably wrote something like "20xx: nominated for AOA (Junior)." I'm not sure whether interviewers get those details unless they read the entire app (which probably happens the minority of the time).

Honestly, AOA is just an ego-boosting tool. Physicians like to include it in their bios on their practice websites because it sounds prestigious - and they should, because patients probably like it - but med students and doctors should recognize its limited usefulness.

 

[IM88]

My understanding was that AOA was not differentiated during the application and selection process; i.e., there is no way to know whether someone who marks "AOA membership" on their application was either Junior or Senior AOA ... save actually asking about it specifically during the interview. Am I mistaken in this assumption?

There is no distinction in ERAS between Junior and Senior AOA. My understanding is that some schools don't necessarily elect senior AOA by the time applications are submitted, though. In that case, it would obviously be an advantage to have been selected as a Junior.

 

[occams_razor]

How does this work if you attend one of the many schools that don't offer a chapter of AOA? Would you have to be that much of a gunner to recruit a bunch of similarly gunner-minded friends and faculty to apply to start a chapter for the sole purpose of buffing your application to these AOA-or-bust programs*, or is there another qualifier that could be used in place of AOA? Or, simply accept that you won't match there and apply elsewhere?

* I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn that someone, somewhere has actually done this.

I was wondering the same thing. My school doesn't have AOA


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[WedgeDawg]

I was wondering the same thing. My school doesn't have AOA


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If you don't have an AOA chapter, not being in AOA certainly won't be held against you. PDs will just rely on other measures to evaluate your application.