DO's MCAT & GPA's are generally lower...WHY?

[Fin-Nor]

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IBTL... oh wait, it doesnt apply here.

FYI everyone, these threads go nowhere.

 

[stoic]

ArmyDoc,

It's cool that you have such professional pride, but lay off a bit dude. Chest beating is just as annoy coming from either side of the MD/DO debate.

DO's learn a little bit of different stuff in schools; they may approach the patient differently. MD's learn more about behavioral science and epidemiology. Different tools, same job. It's like one contractor using a red hammer and another contractor using blue hammer. Same job, slightly different tool.

 

[Gleevec]

Whether the training is done by an MD, DO, PhD, or the tooth fairy doesn't matter at all. It is how the student applies the lessons after they are learned that matters. If the best surgical residency in the country was allopathic and I got accepted to it, I would celebrate the quality of training I was about to recieve, without one thought to the fact that the teacher would have different letters than mine following his name. You would do the same if the best program in the country was a DO program and you got in.
We don't have to be considered different, because we ARE different.

Ok, so DOs and MDs are different. That's all I wanted to know.

Also, maybe you would like a PhD treating someone in your family, because I sure as heck wouldnt (though PhDs make EXCELLENT research faculty-- which is what they are trained to do).

So the question is, if DO and MD are different, why is it that DOs do allopathic residencies. You would think that if they were so different, a lot of the best DOs wouldnt hop over into the allopathic residency training camp.

I by no means intend to discredit DOs, some of my favorite people on SDN are DOs (DrMom, QuinnNSU, etc). But I really think you are doing a disservice to everyone ArmyDoc1999 with your asinine ramblings insulting MDs. Again, if you want to be respected, you have to treat others with respect-- which you are yet to do on this thread. Its one of those lessons from Kindergarten thats just as applicable now as it was back then.

 

[pathdr2b]

Although this is merely my own observation, I tend to believe that DO schools accept people with more life experiences and who tend, on average, to be more personable than allopathic students.

As a patient, I've seen about 3 DO's in my life that I know of (When was the last time ANYONE asked if the doctor they saw in the ER was a DO ro MD? 😕) and they were ALL fabulous people (one was a radiologist).

If I wanted a strictly clinical career, hands down I'd choose DO over MD in a minute!

 

[DD214_DOC]

That is as ridiculous as MD proponents saying DOs are intellectually inferior.

If you follow the rest of the post, you will see it's not very rediculous. It's really just common sense.

 

[smgilles]

I completely agree with you on the "its the quality of physician that comes out rather than the incoming student" thing, but I think that the above quote is the major question mark I have concerning osteopathy. Why do they market themselves as being some completely different method of treating a patient? Osteopaths, though they may have a tougher time with finding residency programs or whatever, are equivalent to their allopathic bretheren in all 50 states. That fact frequenters of this board will state until they are blue in the face.

However, for some reason, they will also speak of the 'unique' manner in which a DO provides care as being better than the approach of an MD. This is frequently manifested with the notion that an MD will treat the disease, while the DO will provide a whole-body approach that allows for greater patient care. I think that is not only bull****, it is downright insulting.

If we are equivalent, that's fine; I will never look down on a competant DO. However, I don't find much to respect in a person who wants things both ways.

I have yet to see a difference in patient care and bed side manner and this is coming from a DO MS-II student. I worked in an allopathic hospital for 3-yrs prior to starting DO school and I saw no difference b/t how DOs and MDs treated their patients, especially within the same specialties. Evidently I either worked with bad DOs or just really good MDs 🙄

I think you have hit the nail on head Indy when you said "that it is not only bull****, it is downright insulting to MDs to say they only treat the disease."

 

[doc3341]

It is because DO schools recognize that sometimes the more well rounded candidates may not have the best grades in undergrad as a result of their extracurricular activities. MD schools focus on academic standing ALOT more, while at DO schools, the interview and total resume carry more weight. DO schools also accept many more non-traditional students. This means people who may have been out of a classroom for some time.

I agree. There are many good doctors out there. Many of which had very good grades and excellent MCAT scores. However what separates a good doctor from a Great doctor is not just the ability to read a book and be able to regurgitate its information; but it is the ability to talk to your patients. The ability to communicate, build relationships and relate to your patients is what keeps them coming back to you. From what I have seen working in the hospital most MD's arent very good at talking to people. Dont get me wrong, There are plenty of great MD's out there, hell my PCP is an MD. But they are far and few between. DO's on the other hand are excellent communicators. Maybe its because their training really integrates the philosophy of treating the whole person??? These are my $0.02

 

[Fin-Nor]

there are so many generalized statements on here that they do not speak for the whole mold of MD's and DO's. sure you may have seen some uncompassionate/non-communicative MD's and really personable DO's, but you cant make judgement just on a few instances and assume that the rest are like so.

aye yay yay... these threads are rediculous (imho of course)

 

[Gleevec]

From what I have seen working in the hospital most MD's arent very good at talking to people. Dont get me wrong, There are plenty of great MD's out there, hell my PCP is an MD. But they are far and few between. DO's on the other hand are excellent communicators. Maybe its because their training really integrates the philosophy of treating the whole person??? These are my $0.02

You guys crack me up.

Keep posting this stuff, its a comedy goldmine!

(seriously, why isnt this thread in the Lounge where it belongs?)

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

Ok, so DOs and MDs are different. That's all I wanted to know.

Also, maybe you would like a PhD treating someone in your family, because I sure as heck wouldnt (though PhDs make EXCELLENT research faculty-- which is what they are trained to do).

So the question is, if DO and MD are different, why is it that DOs do allopathic residencies. You would think that if they were so different, a lot of the best DOs wouldnt hop over into the allopathic residency training camp.

I by no means intend to discredit DOs, some of my favorite people on SDN are DOs (DrMom, QuinnNSU, etc). But I really think you are doing a disservice to everyone ArmyDoc1999 with your asinine ramblings insulting MDs. Again, if you want to be respected, you have to treat others with respect-- which you are yet to do on this thread. Its one of those lessons from Kindergarten thats just as applicable now as it was back then.

The PhD reference was an example, which you have taken out of context. Do me a favor and don't twist my words, OK? And I already answered your question concerning DO's and allopathic residencies. Read the previous posts over again.
I'm still waiting for an explanation on what makes them "asinine ramblings". And I have NEVER insulted an MD in any of my posts. I have simply tried to explain the difference between the two schools of thought. Just out of curiosity, could you pull a quote of mine in which I am disrespectful to anyone? I don't think you can, because it hasn't happened. Now, when you are ready to debate the FACTS, I'll be waiting for you.

 

[gitooboy]

Im very very glad someone finally said something about MD bashing by DOs. Im a second year MD student and do believe that MDs and DOs are equal, plain and simple, no "excepts," no "althoughs." I get so offended when I hear someone say "DO's and MD's are equal, except DO's are more well rounded and more personable and don't have their heads stuck in books" or "DO's treat the whole person rather than just the disease" or "DOs work and communicate better with patients." Im sorry, but blanket statements like these are not pointing out differences between MD and DO, they are blatant statements insisting that DOs are better doctors than MDs.

Imagine for a second...
Imagine for a second that Martin Luther King and other civil rights leaders had argued that whites and blacks are equal...except that generally blacks are more friendly and get along better with other people. Oh, plus they are more athletic and are harder working. But other than that whites and blacks are equal and should be given equal rights.
How do you think people would have felt? How do you think MDs and MDs-to-be feel when they hear blanket gross generalizations form their peers? They only thing it adds is to help create a hostile environment. People always talk about the OD haters, what about the MD haters?

DOs, more than anyone, should know not to make gross generalizations, having fought so hard to be recognized that they are not MD wannabees that are "not as smart." People are always defending DO's by challeging others to prove that a DO degree makes a physician any less capable or competent, so I challenge anyone who truly believes that MD's are socially inferior and less well rounded than DO's to show some proof, or proof that MDs only treat the disease and ignore the whole person (Please don't tell me about your cousin's friend's first aunt's GI doc or an isolated case of an MD you once met one time while shadowing as "proof", in the same way an argument based upon someone who knew someone who was really stupid and got into DO schools would not fly as proof that DOs are intellectually inferior to MDs).

In my first year at medical school I especially know the latter myth about MDs only treating the person not to be true. We are always encouraged and trained to treat the whole person. Our professors always have a saying, "When looking for pneumonia in a chest X-Ray, dont ignore the fracture in the humerus bone." We are always encouraged to fully examine and treat patients that come in and never focus on a focal problem. We have spent ample time learning to interview and interact with patients. Dont confuse MDs portrayed in TV in the E.R. that may only has 10 minutes with a patient to treat a focal problem with every other MDs out there that pay attention to their patient's needs just as well as any DO.

It just gets me all riled up because I take personaly offense to it. Ive worked d@mn well hard not only for my grades, but to be the well rounded person I am today and to get to where I am today. I am a very well rounded person and I am very proud of my very well rounded classmates. Ive never been a part of a group so well accomplished and so inspiring, and to hear someone make gross generalizations about our character or our abilities due to our future degree is dumb and incredibly insulting. So if you beleive otherwise. I challenge you to prove it.

MD=DO, no except's, but's, or although's. Period.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

I think this thread just needs to end. It seems that people are just getting their feelings hurt, and we have strayed WAY OFF from the original question posed. All in favor of dropping the subject, say "I".

 

[Cowboy DO]

Umm... I mean "I". Seriously these things are so stupid. Worst part is there are idiotic responses from both sides, and really it just makes everyone look bad.

 

[Yosh]

That pic has to be one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time..


STRONG WORK!!!!

 

[skypilot]

The original premise that DO schools have lower stats is false. KCOM's MCAT and GPA are right in the middle of the pack of all schools allopathic and osteopathic. Some of the schools at the bottom of the pack are allopathic. Besides the fact that allopathic MDs include all the foreign trained physicians while DOs are all trained in the U.S. (giving the patient a guarantee of quality education) 🙂