DO's MCAT & GPA's are generally lower...WHY?

[jopdo]

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Just to play the tired old devils advocate on this issue. MCAT scores & GPA's are generally lower among DO applicants than their allopathic counterparts. Doesn't this act only to make the case for DO v. MD weaker? Doesn't this hurt the image of DOs? Any thoughts?

 

[sophiejane]

It hurts us so much that there are thousands of us practicing medicine right beside MDs every day and making the same green dollars for providing the same care.

Yes, it hurts our case alright. Those undergrad scores just follow you around like a black cloud and keep you from ever succeeding in medicine. Most of the word's street people are actually DO grads. Little known fact.

 

[jopdo]

It hurts us so much that there are thousands of us practicing medicine right beside MDs every day and making the same green dollars for providing the same care.

Yes, it hurts our case alright. Those undergrad scores just follow you around like a black cloud and keep you from ever succeeding in medicine. Most of the word's street people are actually DO grads. Little known fact.

Good statement. Nice to see such DO pride. But I am not sure that answered my question of 'why' there is a grade/mcat discrepancy among applicants.

 

[Luck]

First many premeds don't know about DO schools so they end up not applying. Next top candidates who know about DO schools choose to go to MD schools anyways since they are more prestigious. This means DO schools have to fill some 2,500 spots each year and because of the above two reasons, the applicant pool may not be the best as they would want it to be.

DO schools pick people with lower stats because they are forced to and not because they want to. Of course this does not matter once DOs are physicians because much like Caribbean grads, they can be just as good or better than MDs.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

It is because DO schools recognize that sometimes the more well rounded candidates may not have the best grades in undergrad as a result of their extracurricular activities. MD schools focus on academic standing ALOT more, while at DO schools, the interview and total resume carry more weight. DO schools also accept many more non-traditional students. This means people who may have been out of a classroom for some time.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

I find the statement that MD schools are more prestigious to be offensive. People choose one path or the other based on ideological differences. Now, there are DO schools that are more prestigious than others based on their age and faculty, just as Harvard Med is more prestigious than OU Med, but comparing DO schools to MD schools is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[sophiejane]

My sarcasm stemmed from the fact that as you stated, this is a TIRED arguement with no real purpose. You have no idea about the "pride" I have for my chosen profession.

What will be accomplished if and when you ever DO find an answer? What is the "case" against DOs? Are we on trial? Last time I looked, nobody cared what your GPA or MCAT were once you got into medical school. If you are pre-med right now I know that is hard to believe, but it's true.

 

[Luck]

By prestigious I meant the MD degree is more widely known/prestigious than the DO degree.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

By prestigious I meant the MD degree is more widely known/prestigious than the DO degree.

What exactly makes an MD degree more prestigious than a DO? I'm interested to hear your point of view. Widely known I can see; I've had to explain what a "DO" is so many times, I've lost count; but more prestigious?

 

[racystacey07]

I believe that allopathic schools prepare the student for a specialty in medicine or for a research career, while DO schools are geared towards general medicine, like IM, etc. In general, I think that the ultra competitive students (high GPA, high MCAT) want a super competitive career in a specialty area. Although this is a massive generalization, this explains the discrepancy.

 

[Ryan]

I believe that allopathic schools prepare the student for a specialty in medicine or for a research career, while DO schools are geared towards general medicine, like IM, etc. In general, I think that the ultra competitive students (high GPA, high MCAT) want a super competitive career in a specialty area. Although this is a massive generalization, this explains the discrepancy.

It is actually a combination of several of the above posts...including what racystacy07 says. However, some of us high GPA/MCAT are part of a growing group that adheres to the idea that being trained in general medicine prepares us to become better specialists in the future (you can achieve this equally as well in MD and DO schools). Residency is the time for specialty training. It is true that DO schools have a primary care focus, it is usually only evident in the amount of extra training one receives in the OPP/OMM classes and a couple of rotations in the 3rd/4th year. However, it is paramount for pre-meds who look at these things to understand and internalize that ALL United States medical schools, both DO and MD teach essentially the EXACT SAME material. Most medical schools, both DO and MD, use the SAME textbooks. You will get out of medical school what you put into it. There are DO graduates that direct residencies at Dartmouth and have gone to extremely competitive residencies at Stanford ER or UCSF ER etc...There are also MDs from Harvard that go into Family Practice and IM and vise versa... I know that I am not directly answering the question asked by the OP, but I feel it is necessary to evaluate why people care. As for the "image" issue 99% of the patients we see out in the real world don't have the foggiest idea what the MCAT is...so it usually IS NOT the patients asking these silly questions but pre-med or pre-med wannabes. For those of you who are in pre-med boat and have had the patience to read this far...here is some friendly advice given to me by a Stanford Med graduate......"just go where you "Feel Right". If that is Harvard or 'Bob's School of Medicine' in po-dunk wherever. Go where you feel at home. You will know when its right."

-Ryan

 

[box29]

One must also understand that that there are about 125 or so allopathic schools while there are only 22 osteopathic schools (TUCOM-NV and LECOM-FL as the newest). I also think that one would be surprised to find more matriculants with high GPA/MCAT also. There is always a wide range of stats for a class so don't think there aren't any superstars where stats are concerned. Once you make it in, what you get from your education is what you put into it. MCAT and undergrad GPA fall by the wayside as you prepare for boards and that is what is going to set you apart as well as how you perform in clinicals.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

I believe that allopathic schools prepare the student for a specialty in medicine or for a research career, while DO schools are geared towards general medicine, like IM, etc. In general, I think that the ultra competitive students (high GPA, high MCAT) want a super competitive career in a specialty area. Although this is a massive generalization, this explains the discrepancy.

This is definitely not a MASSIVE generalization. It is wholly incorrect. While most DOs do go into Primary Care fields, (General Practice, OB/GYN, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, etc.) ALL the rest go into highly specialized fields. My uncle is a DO, and he is a Urologic Surgeon. It doesn't get much more specialized than that. After a seven year residency, 4 in general surgery and 3 in urologic surgery, all he sees are surgical patients with problems in the urinary tract; kidney stones, prostate cancer, kidney failure, bladder cancer, etc.
Who do you think does the heart transplants and bypass surgery at DO hospitals? A DO whose specialty is cardiac surgery. The answer to this question is in the above posts.

 

[Og kingofBashan]

there are about 125 or so allopathic schools while there are only 22 osteopathic schools

good point

 

[racystacey07]

This is definitely not a MASSIVE generalization. It is wholly incorrect. While most DOs do go into Primary Care fields, (General Practice, OB/GYN, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, etc.) ALL the rest go into highly specialized fields. My uncle is a DO, and he is a Urologic Surgeon. It doesn't get much more specialized than that. After a seven year residency, 4 in general surgery and 3 in urologic surgery, all he sees are surgical patients with problems in the urinary tract; kidney stones, prostate cancer, kidney failure, bladder cancer, etc.
Who do you think does the heart transplants and bypass surgery at DO hospitals? A DO whose specialty is cardiac surgery. The answer to this question is in the above posts.

If you read what I said, i wrote IN GENERAL. Last time I checked, in general refers to A GENERALIZATION!! DOs can specialize in anything (and do!); however, most do choose to go into primary care (exactly what you said). I do not think we are in disagreement here, so please do not twist my words. Thanks so much. BTW, its absolutely fabulous that your uncle is a Urologic Surgeon--helps to dispel the MD DO myth.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

If you read what I said, i wrote IN GENERAL. Last time I checked, in general refers to A GENERALIZATION!! DOs can specialize in anything (and do!); however, most do choose to go into primary care (exactly what you said). I do not think we are in disagreement here, so please do not twist my words. Thanks so much. BTW, its absolutely fabulous that your uncle is a Urologic Surgeon--helps to dispel the MD DO myth.

Stacey,

I didn't mean to step on your toes or twist your words. If YOU will read what I wrote I said your generalization as a WHOLE was INCORRECT. But, since you clarified here, I am glad to see that we ARE in agreement. And, I hope to continue dispeling the DO-MD myth be becoming a Urologic Surgeon myself. Where are you in your education right now? Where do you want to do your medical education?

 

[raspberry swirl]

there is a more obvious reason for lower admission stats at DO schools. a large percentage, if not the majority in most cases, of DO applicants are non traditional students, meaning they have been out of college for 2 or more years, typically longer. many of these students were not science majors, or if they were, applying to medical school was not at the forefront of their mind. therefore, they may not have been gunning for that 4.0 since freshman year, since maybe they wanted to be a gym teacher or something (nothing against gym teachers, of course). many non traditional applicants have to take those required courses later in their life, as they do the MCAT. meaning they're out of school/studying/testing mode, they're often juggling family responsibilities as well as careers, and they simply have other obligations/priorities/perspectives at that point in their life. i was not a non trad, but i was working full time while preparing for the MCAT, and i marveled at the students in my kaplan course who just sat in the kaplan library all day and studied, or who had time to take the MCAT multiple times, etc. that is simply not a luxury everyone can afford.

from my experience, i would estimate this is the case for about 40% of DO applicants, whereas these type of applicants probably make up a much smaller number, 15% or less, of MD applicants (i have no statistics on this, i'm just going on my general knowledge of types of applicants at the two types of schools, so please dont harrass me for proof). i dont think the admission stats have anything to do with a level of prestigiousness, i think it just reflects a wider diveristy of applicants. 😳

btw, jopdo, nothing is ever gained from playing the devils advocate.

 

[racystacey07]

there is a more obvious reason for lower admission stats at DO schools. a large percentage, if not the majority in most cases, of DO applicants are non traditional students, meaning they have been out of college for 2 or more years, typically longer. many of these students were not science majors, or if they were, applying to medical school was not at the forefront of their mind. therefore, they may not have been gunning for that 4.0 since freshman year, since maybe they wanted to be a gym teacher or something (nothing against gym teachers, of course). many non traditional applicants have to take those required courses later in their life, as they do the MCAT. meaning they're out of school/studying/testing mode, they're often juggling family responsibilities as well as careers, and they simply have other obligations/priorities/perspectives at that point in their life. i was not a non trad, but i was working full time while preparing for the MCAT, and i marveled at the students in my kaplan course who just sat in the kaplan library all day and studied, or who had time to take the MCAT multiple times, etc. that is simply not a luxury everyone can afford.

from my experience, i would estimate this is the case for about 40% of DO applicants, whereas these type of applicants probably make up a much smaller number, 15% or less, of MD applicants (i have no statistics on this, i'm just going on my general knowledge of types of applicants at the two types of schools, so please dont harrass me for proof). i dont think the admission stats have anything to do with a level of prestigiousness, i think it just reflects a wider diveristy of applicants. 😳

btw, jopdo, nothing is ever gained from playing the devils advocate.

i think you said it perfectly...

 

[KylieP54]

The day someone can prove to me that DO's, after all is said and done with medical school, are complete failures and horrible care providers when compared with MD's is the day I put more than two seconds worth of thought into this issue. I mean, that's what is most important when becoming a doctor right? How well you can do your job and love it at the same time? That's just my opinion.

Not trying to be mean or intend to, I just wanna put this issue to rest like so many others.

 

[Buster Douglas]

6 people apply to med school. all 6 apply to MD and DO schools. given all schools are of ideal location and tuition, odds are the majority will choose MD over DO due to cultural ideals.

 

[dreghsSC]

what is DO

 

[DD214_DOC]

It is because DO schools recognize that sometimes the more well rounded candidates may not have the best grades in undergrad as a result of their extracurricular activities. MD schools focus on academic standing ALOT more, while at DO schools, the interview and total resume carry more weight. DO schools also accept many more non-traditional students. This means people who may have been out of a classroom for some time.

I agree with this statement. Although this is merely my own observation, I tend to believe that DO schools accept people with more life experiences and who tend, on average, to be more personable than allopathic students.

Generally DO students spent more time with their heads out of the books, and as a result they tend to have more developed social skills but less academic acheivements. While there are certainly exceptions, this appears to be the case for the majority of DO students. I, for one, as well as many others on SDN fit this profile. It would make an interesting study.

 

[stoic]

Lets not forget that DO schools keep opening new branch campuses, diluting the applicant pool and making more and more questionable admissions.

I definately agree that DO schools would like to admit more students with higher stats; in that sense many (if not most) DO students are less competative for MD schools. That said, the lower MCAT/GPA does essentially nothing to qualify any one applicant is to be a physician. DO schools look past the numbers more than MD schools, which I think is a good thing. More applicants who got serious about a career in medicine later in school or during a first career pursue osteopathic education because of this. To me, this quality is as valuable and unique to DO education as OMT.

In general, DO schools do push primary care more than MD schools. It's already been mentioned but most of this difference comes in the number of required primary care rotations. Also, DO residencies require the internship year, with they tout as generalist training. Unfortunately the state of DO residency training isn't really do much to put osteopathic medicine on the map.

The MD degree is more prestegious than the DO degree. Prestege is a quality assigned by public opinion, not actually qualification. The majority of the population doesn't know what a DO is. Many of them who do have false impressions of the degree (only allowed to do general medicine, quacks, less intelligent, etc). Why is this? Ask the AOA.

 

[Luck]

The MD degree is more prestegious than the DO degree. Prestege is a quality assigned by public opinion, not actually qualification. The majority of the population doesn't know what a DO is. Many of them who do have false impressions of the degree (only allowed to do general medicine, quacks, less intelligent, etc). Why is this? Ask the AOA.

Exactly. This is what I meant by the MD degree is more prestigious than the DO degree.

 

[raptor5]

It is because DO schools recognize that sometimes the more well rounded candidates may not have the best grades in undergrad as a result of their extracurricular activities. MD schools focus on academic standing ALOT more, while at DO schools, the interview and total resume carry more weight. DO schools also accept many more non-traditional students. This means people who may have been out of a classroom for some time.

I have to agree with Army Doc1999 on this one. To answer the original poster's question, DOs MCAT score and GPA are lower b/c that is the avg of those that matriculate. Obviously. If your a gunner (not referring to OP), and want to go to a gunner school, then the academic numbers are higher. To be honest though, once you are actually in med school no one really cares about your GPA or MCAT, well at PCOM anyway. Its funny b/c you need decent grades to get in and once your in, no one cares.

Lets not forget that DO schools keep opening new branch campuses, diluting the applicant pool and making more and more questionable admissions.

Just wait until PCOM opens the Korean and Netherlands campus. Not Kidding. They are currently in discussion about taking the DO degree international to countries that will accept it. I was told this by a PCOM clinical faculty member, Oliver Bullock, D.O..

 

[BklynWill]

The reasons why DO schools accept students with lower grades/ MCAT scores are not important. I think a more important question is, does an applicant feel less secure applying to a school that tends to accept students with lower grades? Is this why many pre-meds will not apply to DO schools, because DO schools aren't "good" enough?
I always thought schools were most attractive regarding the quality of students they churn out.

Exactly. This is what I meant by the MD degree is more prestigious than the DO degree.

Why are you ignoring the impressions of actual MDs and DOs? It would be difficult to find a doctor willing to preach how his digree is better than another doctor's. Of course there are probably some MDs or DOs out there that might substantiate this prestige debate, and I encourage you to forward their address to me.

 

[Luck]

The reasons why DO schools accept students with lower grades/ MCAT scores are not important. I think a more important question is, does an applicant feel less secure applying to a school that tends to accept students with lower grades? Is this why many pre-meds will not apply to DO schools, because DO schools aren't "good" enough?

Actually this makes a lot of sense. Premeds look down on DO schools mainly because of the lower accepted stats and so many premeds with higher stats decide not to apply to DO schools. This of course drives lower stats for DO schools and it's a circular process.

 

[BklynWill]

Actually this makes a lot of sense. Premeds look down on DO schools mainly because of the lower accepted stats and so many premeds with higher stats decide not to apply to DO schools. This of course drives lower stats for DO schools and it's a circular process.

source: http://www.aacom.org/data/annualreport/slideshow/index.html

 

[Luck]

I just agreed with you and you disagreed with me agreeing with you? 😕

You yourself acknowledged that DOs take students with lower stats. You said "the reason why DO schools take students of lower grades/MCAT scores are not important" which acknowledges the fact that they do.

 

[BklynWill]

I reread what you said and I don't disagree with you. I thought at first glance that you said incoming DO stats were being driven down every year in sort of a positive feedback loop.

 

[Luck]

I reread what you said and I don't disagree with you. I thought at first glance that you said incoming DO stats were being driven down every year in sort of a positive feedback loop.

I guess it could have been interpreted like that. I guess I should say that it keeps DO stats at a lower level than MD stats, not that it's continually going down.

 

[1viking]

So the average MCAT for a DO school may be a 27, and the average for an allopathic may be a 30. That is one point on each test. I know (instant karma) that I was 7 questions away from an 11 instead of a 9 on the bio section. That is hardly anything! The difference isn't there. It is make-believe.

 

[BklynWill]

Whether a med student goes to a school with high or low incoming stats, they're still going to get their butts kicked. They're still going to learn the same medicine. They're still going to be medical doctors upon graduation.

Are there really enough pre-med students with high GPAs out there, who have the misconception that schools with lower incoming stats are inferior, to drive the incoming stats of DO schools down? I think the overwhelming numbers of applicants to DO schools could easily provide enough 3.8s to fill every school's class.

 

[willthatsall]

So the average MCAT for a DO school may be a 27, and the average for an allopathic may be a 30. That is one point on each test. I know (instant karma) that I was 7 questions away from an 11 instead of a 9 on the bio section. That is hardly anything! The difference isn't there. It is make-believe.

Where are you getting 27 from? It looks like under 25 to me, according to that chart posted above. This board reminds me of a high school sports board I go to sometimes and there is a section for private school basketball and another one for public school basketball. And some of the public school guys always end up at the private school board trolling them about how private school teams could never compete with public schools and how nobody at a private school is good enough to play college basketball and how the best private school team wouldn't even beat the worst public school team. And after a while the private school board just started ignoring those people. When will the DO board start ignoring all the trolls?

 

[1viking]

Where are you getting 27 from? It looks like under 25 to me, according to that chart posted above. This board reminds me of a high school sports board I go to sometimes and there is a section for private school basketball and another one for public school basketball. And some of the public school guys always end up at the private school board trolling them about how private school teams could never compete with public schools and how nobody at a private school is good enough to play college basketball and how the best private school team wouldn't even beat the worst public school team. And after a while the private school board just started ignoring those people. When will the DO board start ignoring all the trolls?

agreed. I took 27 from my school, I think??? KCOM?

 

[box29]

Yeah...KCOM's CLass of 2006 MCAT average was 27 while the CLass of 2007 was 26... 🙄

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

Look, guys and gals, bottom line: people who look down on the DO degree and DO schools are just uninformed and sadly ignorant to the facts. Those that have the facts and continue to look down on DO's and their schools are just professional bigots. It has been said many times over on this thread, in many different forms: All that matters is the quality of the physician that is produced at the end, not the perceived quality of the student that comes in. Period. And whoever posted on the previous page that a student accepted to both a DO and MD school would automatically pick the MD school needs to have his/her head examined. I ONLY applied to DO schools, and I am GOING to a DO school. As I said before in another post on this thread, the choice between DO and MD is an ideological one. It takes certain kinds of people to pursue either degree. A DO wouldn't be happy practicing medicine the "MD" way, and vice-versa. Therein, lies the rub.
Oh and, by the way, why should we let the common man or woman decide what is prestigious or not? I am sure that most people in this country couldn't even TELL you if their primary care provider is an MD or a DO? All that matters to them is that they have a PHYSICIAN.

 

[IndyZX]

As I said before in another post on this thread, the choice between DO and MD is an ideological one. It takes certain kinds of people to pursue either degree. A DO wouldn't be happy practicing medicine the "MD" way, and vice-versa. Therein, lies the rub.

I completely agree with you on the "its the quality of physician that comes out rather than the incoming student" thing, but I think that the above quote is the major question mark I have concerning osteopathy. Why do they market themselves as being some completely different method of treating a patient? Osteopaths, though they may have a tougher time with finding residency programs or whatever, are equivalent to their allopathic bretheren in all 50 states. That fact frequenters of this board will state until they are blue in the face.

However, for some reason, they will also speak of the 'unique' manner in which a DO provides care as being better than the approach of an MD. This is frequently manifested with the notion that an MD will treat the disease, while the DO will provide a whole-body approach that allows for greater patient care. I think that is not only bull****, it is downright insulting.

If we are equivalent, that's fine; I will never look down on a competant DO. However, I don't find much to respect in a person who wants things both ways.

 

[Luck]

IndyZX, looking at your MDapplicants profile, I believe you would make a good candidate for DO schools. I hope you apply to them and if you apply to a wide number of DO schools, you should get in somewhere.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

I completely agree with you on the "its the quality of physician that comes out rather than the incoming student" thing, but I think that the above quote is the major question mark I have concerning osteopathy. Why do they market themselves as being some completely different method of treating a patient? Osteopaths, though they may have a tougher time with finding residency programs or whatever, are equivalent to their allopathic bretheren in all 50 states. That fact frequenters of this board will state until they are blue in the face.

However, for some reason, they will also speak of the 'unique' manner in which a DO provides care as being better than the approach of an MD. This is frequently manifested with the notion that an MD will treat the disease, while the DO will provide a whole-body approach that allows for greater patient care. I think that is not only bull****, it is downright insulting.

If we are equivalent, that's fine; I will never look down on a competant DO. However, I don't find much to respect in a person who wants things both ways.

OK, let me see if I can address this. Growing up, I was a military brat and was treated, primarily, in military hospitals. As a young child, I didn't notice a difference between the two, but as I got older I did. The MD's tended to stand across the room from you with a clipboard or, God forbid, a TAPE RECORDER, and hardly even look at you as much as whatever they had in their hands. The DO's, on the other hand, would sit or stand right in front of you, and would immediately start using their hands to try and discover what your problem was. They were much more personal and personable. And it all comes down to a difference in training and a difference in approach to your patients. Think about the movie "Patch Adams". What did the dean tell them on the first day? People don't want friends, or someone to share their burden with. They want stone-hearted, coldly professional, physicians.
Well, you'll never hear that uttered in a DO school, but that is exactly what MD's preach. So, the "textbook" training is all the same. In the end, both are equally qualified to practice medicine. But, is is the "Kinder, gentler, approach", if you will, that makes DO's different and in the opinion of our patients and ourselves, better. Then, there is the issue of the more holistic approach, which MD's are slowly absorbing into their own methods, and OMT which DO's still practice exclusively. So, when you look at the individual parts, DO's and MD's aren't all that different; however, many times the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This is one of those occasions. Put it all together, and DO's ARE completly different from their MD bretheren.

 

[IndyZX]

OK, let me see if I can address this. Growing up, I was a military brat and was treated, primarily, in military hospitals. As a young child, I didn't notice a difference between the two, but as I got older I did. The MD's tended to stand across the room from you with a clipboard or, God forbid, a TAPE RECORDER, and hardly even look at you as much as whatever they had in their hands. The DO's, on the other hand, would sit or stand right in front of you, and would immediately start using their hands to try and discover what your problem was. They were much more personal and personable. And it all comes down to a difference in training and a difference in approach to your patients. Think about the movie "Patch Adams". What did the dean tell them on the first day? People don't want friends, or someone to share their burden with. They want stone-hearted, coldly professional, physicians.
Well, you'll never hear that uttered in a DO school, but that is exactly what MD's preach. So, the "textbook" training is all the same. In the end, both are equally qualified to practice medicine. But, is is the "Kinder, gentler, approach", if you will, that makes DO's different and in the opinion of our patients and ourselves, better. Then, there is the issue of the more holistic approach, which MD's are slowly absorbing into their own methods, and OMT which DO's still practice exclusively. So, when you look at the individual parts, DO's and MD's aren't all that different; however, many times the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. This is one of those occasions. Put it all together, and DO's ARE completly different from their MD bretheren.

Ok, I guess I disagree on what I consider the reality of some of those points you made, but you argued your views well.

 

[Gleevec]

Put it all together, and DO's ARE completly different from their MD bretheren.

I really dont want to address the rest of your post, since it is utter nonsense. You say that DOs shouldnt be looked down upon, yet then you spend a whole paragraph just bashing MDs based on a few overexaggerated cases? Gimme a break. If you want to be respected you have to show some respect too...

And honestly, if the DO "philosophy" is so unique and fantastic, why is it that some of the best DOs do allopathic residencies? Lets face it, though we learn a bit about each specialty in med school, its in residency where we truly learn clinical practice. So if DOs are completely different, why is it that everyone whacks off to to posts saying a DO made it into a competitive allopathic residency or as an allopathic faculty.

I just dont get it. Just answer this one question, do you guys want to be considered different or not? Because from the way you make it sound, its as if we're in completely different fields, yet others say the education is exactly the same. So which is it?

 

[exmike]

I tend to believe that DO schools accept people with more life experiences and who tend, on average, to be more personable than allopathic students.

That is as ridiculous as MD proponents saying DOs are intellectually inferior.

 

[1viking]

When it all comes down to it, we don't know anything about who is better or more respected. We think we know what we are talking about, but we don't. We premeds are arrogant and it only gets worse when we get accepted, graduate, etc... I think anybody that is tops in high school, goes to a university and aces their science classes, takes and succeeds on the MCAT, spends 4 years of sleepless nights in medical school, 3 to 5 years in a residency, and 1-3 years in a fellowship deserves everybody's respect, regardless of degree offered. By the way, this is a great counter-debate for those that think we will make too much money. They need to understand that doctors actually have a crappy return on equity!

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

I really dont want to address the rest of your post, since it is utter nonsense. You say that DOs shouldnt be looked down upon, yet then you spend a whole paragraph just bashing MDs based on a few overexaggerated cases? Gimme a break. If you want to be respected you have to show some respect too...

And honestly, if the DO "philosophy" is so unique and fantastic, why is it that some of the best DOs do allopathic residencies? Lets face it, though we learn a bit about each specialty in med school, its in residency where we truly learn clinical practice. So if DOs are completely different, why is it that everyone whacks off to to posts saying a DO made it into a competitive allopathic residency or as an allopathic faculty.

I just dont get it. Just answer this one question, do you guys want to be considered different or not? Because from the way you make it sound, its as if we're in completely different fields, yet others say the education is exactly the same. So which is it?

Much easier to call it nonsense than to address it, isn't it? First, I never said DO's were looked down upon. Maybe you sould try reading more of this thread before commenting on one post.
How do you know the cases are overexaggerated? What makes them overexaggerated? Where you there, or do ther strike a little too close to home for you to do anything but dismiss them off of the cuff? I was simply using my own personal experiences to try and answer SOMEONE ELSE'S question. And who am I supposed to be respecting? You? Just who are you, and why should I respect you?

No DO I have ever known celebrated getting into an allopathic residency because it was allopathic. Whether the training is done by an MD, DO, PhD, or the tooth fairy doesn't matter at all. It is how the student applies the lessons after they are learned that matters. If the best surgical residency in the country was allopathic and I got accepted to it, I would celebrate the quality of training I was about to recieve, without one thought to the fact that the teacher would have different letters than mine following his name. You would do the same if the best program in the country was a DO program and you got in.
We don't have to be considered different, because we ARE different. And we certainly don't have to DEFEND ourselves to YOU.

 

[Luck]

I just love these MD vs DO debates. I see them on many different battle grounds on SDN and DOs and pre-DOs always put up a spirited defense. 😀

From all this discussion, I think we have come to agree that DOs appear to act more friendly to their patients than MDs due to their difference in philosophy. Of course, there are still good MDs just like there are bad DOs. Come to the light.

 

[ArmyDoc1999]

I just love these MD vs DO debates. I see them on many different battle grounds on SDN and DOs and pre-DOs always put up a spirited defense. 😀

From all this discussion, I think we have come to agree that DOs appear to act more friendly to their patients than MDs due to their difference in philosophy. Of course, there are still good MDs just like there are bad DOs. Come to the light.

Boy Luck, just when I think I have you figured out. First you are inciting heated debate, then you are becoming the comic relief. Come to the light? That's classic!
And you are right: there are lots of good MD's out there. Most of them, in fact. And there are some TERRIBLE DO's. But we aren't debating the quality of the care, but the ideology behind the care. I think it is a lost cause. It is like trying to convince the Palestinians and Israelis to see eye to eye. It will probably never happen. As long as the other group sees their opponent as trying to assert superiority, or that they are somehow "better", rather than mutual understanding of each other then this will never end. So what are you? DO to be? Current student? I'm a DO student, myself.

 

[Luck]

Boy Luck, just when I think I have you figured out. First you are inciting heated debate, then you are becoming the comic relief. Come to the light? That's classic!
And you are right: there are lots of good MD's out there. Most of them, in fact. And there are some TERRIBLE DO's. But we aren't debating the quality of the care, but the ideology behind the care. I think it is a lost cause. It is like trying to convince the Palestinians and Israelis to see eye to eye. It will probably never happen. As long as the other group sees their opponent as trying to assert superiority, or that they are somehow "better", rather than mutual understanding of each other then this will never end. So what are you?

You have made excellent points. As for what I am, at times I have pondered this very question myself. Have I been put on this world for a purpose or was my existence merely a speck of star dusk floating out from within. Am I human or is the designation of human bestowed on ourselves simply relative to what obviously is nothing more then a mesh of matter. It is very puzzling at times and I stay up night thinking about it. It truly blows my mind much like the whole DO vs MD thing.

 

[dcpark74]

So the average MCAT for a DO school may be a 27, and the average for an allopathic may be a 30. That is one point on each test. I know (instant karma) that I was 7 questions away from an 11 instead of a 9 on the bio section. That is hardly anything! The difference isn't there. It is make-believe.

wrong...! statistically it is significant. for example, 7 question on the bio section is nearly 10 percent of the exam...don't fool yourself into thinking your bio score of 9 is equivalent to an 11 just because the difference was 7 questions. it's like saying after an exam,"oh, i knew that question but didn't answer it correctly. it doesn't really count because i knew that." hmmmm...well if you knew it then why didn't you answer it correctly the first time.

and BTW, the average MCAT for a DO school is below 27.

 

[Luck]

and BTW, the average MCAT for a DO school is below 27.

You are partially wrong. Some DO schools have MCAT score averages of 27. Overall, though, the total average is around a 25-26. It's like Harvard's MCAT average is probably a 34, but of all MD schools the average for accepted applicants is a 29.4.