Downward Trend

[onthefence]

How seriously is a downward trend in GPA looked upon? I wonder if this is even the right question to ask, because frankly the truth is I did well throughout college but simply bombed my final quarter, though there is a steady slow decline throughout. I began really strong, and even pulled off several quarters as high as 26 units while maintaining a 3.7-3.8 so I could finish a little early. I was nothing but As with a B here and there, then in the fall of my senior year with my last major class, a physical chem lab, I finished with a C and nothing but pass/fail classes to counter it. It's only one class, and it didn't bring my total down by much, but it's embarrassing, and I couldn't have gotten a C at a worse time if you ask me. My GPA breakdown is as follows.

Freshman: 3.86c/3.85s
Sophomore: 3.73c/3.73s
Junior: 3.70c/3.67s
Senior: 2.0c/2.0s
Overall: 3.73c/3.71s

I could spin all manner of excuses between nearing graduation, a false sense of completion, my father passing away, and beginning work at my first real job, but none of that changes the record. Is this as bad as I'm making it out to be? What else will be scrutinized besides the trend and the overall average?

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[woltej1]

Well your GPA is strong enough to get you an II. Once there, you will have to explain it as they will wonder why you performed so poorly in comparison to your past. I would stick with the strongest reasons, such as working more and the passing of a close loved one and avoid the "senior slide" excuse and whatever false sense of completion means as they make you sound lazy or that maybe you lost your drive. As long as your MCAT reflects the majority of your academic career, that final semester shouldn't stop anything as you have legitimate reasons for the low performance and that it was coupled with pass/fails. You should also address it in your personal statement, or at least secondaries so if/when you have an II they have the mindset that it was a fluke.

 

[inycepoo]

The senior year has the potential to kill you. But it is a pretty severe drop, so maybe you'll get the benefit of the doubt. I feel like it's more of luck as in who you get to review your app. Have a good story and reason (not excuses) to back it up. Family tragedies are okay, but not the best.

Be safe.

 

[NeuroNYC]

You're right, it couldn't have come at a worse time. Many applications will have a field which asks if you have had any inconsistencies in your academic record. I agree with Inycepoo, you have to be very careful when you explain what happened. You don't want an adcom thinking you can't deal with stress.

 

[inycepoo]

You're right, it couldn't have come at a worse time. Many applications will have a field which asks if you have had any inconsistencies in your academic record. I agree with Inycepoo, you have to be very careful when you explain what happened. You don't want an adcom thinking you can't deal with stress.

Especially with deaths...as a doctor...

Though I suspect most adcom members would understand that a kid's first time dealing with it ain't gonna define how he/she'll handle it in the future. Everyone has the first family tragedy, bad breakup, etc.

Activating LizzyM beacon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (We should just have a Batman signal thing up for her.....though I think she probably just searches her name to find posts calling for her help )

 

[kyamh]

Especially with deaths...as a doctor...

Though I suspect most adcom members would understand that a kid's first time dealing with it ain't gonna define how he/she'll handle it in the future. Everyone has the first family tragedy, bad breakup, etc.

Activating LizzyM beacon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (We should just have a Batman signal thing up for her.....though I think she probably just searches her name to find posts calling for her help )

Are you kidding me? Did you read OP's post? His father passed away - that's not just a kid's first time dealing. A parent dying is a tragedy for anyone at any age regardless of profession! Sure, being a doctor means that you have to toughen up and not take every death personally otherwise it will destroy you (caused my mom to switch specialties actually). Being a doctor never means that you ought to be expected to "rise above" or "deal with the stress" stemming from the death of an immediate family member.

 

[txlonghorn2314]

Agreed ^ How incredibly insensitive some of you are! I've worked in the ER for a long time and have been around some of the most depressing life and death circumstances, and then had to go home and study for an exam. However, if my FATHER passed away, I can't even imagine how I could go on with the semester, much less finish it out with a passing grade in PCHEM. OP you have a strong case that I would most definitely identify in your PS. As for you and your family, I extend my deepest sympathies.

 

[NeuroNYC]

Personally, I'm not saying the death of a parent is not an acceptable reason for a dip in grades. All I'm saying, is be careful how you explain it. In my opinion, you'll want to talk about how your father's death meant you had to travel away from school, had to take care of arrangements with your mom, and you missed a lot of class, if that is indeed how it all happened. I would avoid saying that you were too emotionally compromised/distracted to focus at the same level you had been up until that point.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[inycepoo]

Personally, I'm not saying the death of a parent is not an acceptable reason for a dip in grades. All I'm saying, is be careful how you explain it. In my opinion, you'll want to talk about how your father's death meant you had to travel away from school, had to take care of arrangements with your mom, and you missed a lot of class, if that is indeed how it all happened. I would avoid saying that you were too emotionally compromised/distracted to focus at the same level you had been up until that point.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Agreed. That was what I meant. Plus, even OP doesn't think that his father passing away was the entire story. He fell into senioritis, started work (confused about this if he was still in school, unless it was a weird co-op of some sort, but okay...if it was just a small part-time job then er, that's not much of a reason by itself), blah blah blah. Again, it's all up to how he explains his situation. IMO, simply saying "my dad's death destroyed me" doesn't quite seem to justify a 2.0 GPA. That's literally a drop from A/A-/B+ mix to Cs. Huge difference.

But again, I activated the LizzyM beacon for a reason. She'd know best. We're all just speculating how this would be viewed. No one's opinion is more right than the other one. Bottom line for me – sympathy doesn't get you into med school. OP needs more than that.

 

[QuantumQuark]

cGPA is what matters and yours is fine. You didn't have a whole semester of bad grades just one class you got a C in so there's no reason that should be a red flag. I never got asked about individual course grades I didn't do well in during an interview. Best of luck applying I'm sure you'll do great!

 

[inycepoo]

cGPA is what matters and yours is fine. You didn't have a whole semester of bad grades just one class you got a C in so there's no reason that should be a red flag. I never got asked about individual course grades I didn't do well in during an interview. Best of luck applying I'm sure you'll do great!

No no no no. The way OP wrote it, it means that his entire senior year GPA was 2.0 cGPA, 2.0 sGPA. Sure, he only got a C in 1-2 classes, but his taking everything else P/F could also be taken as a sign of pure senioritis and laziness regardless of his other issues. Adcoms read numbers.

Even if emotional distress due to death of an immediate family member can be easily excused, outright laziness as demonstrated by only taking one graded class and a lab through all of senior most definitely would not be by most admissions committees.

 

[onthefence]

First off, thanks for all your sympathies. I'm generally very stress-hardy but his death came very unexpectedly, especially considering it was alcoholism related and I never realized how bad his drinking had gotten. He fell ill, was admitted to hospital, and in a matter of weeks it was over. Regarding my senior year, it consisted of only that one quarter, three classes total. Maybe saying I got a 2.0 for the year is a bit misleading because the entire year I got one C and two Ps. I specifically took a heavy course load in my freshman/sophomore years as I mentioned so I could finish early for financial reasons, going as far as taking o-chem and p-chem concurrently. Hopefully that demonstrates my ability to handle generalized stress. Perhaps my reasons for taking such a light load at the end were ultimately motivated by laziness, but as far as I was concerned at that point, I was done with college and I had no real goal in mind. My plan was to just work for a few years after and figure out what I wanted to do. I did start work part time while in school, but continued full time as soon as I was done with classes so I had essentially a full-time schedule all the way through. That job was with a medical device company and ended up sending me into the OR a few times to work with doctors, so that combined with my experience in the hospital with my dad I think spurred me in the medical direction, and that brings me here: dealing with my past failure to prepare because I didn't know what I was preparing for. From the looks of it, I just need to tackle that blemish head on from the start and hope my other merits speak for themselves. I'll be taking the first MCAT in January, so doing well on that two years after the fact should prove I'm not in decline, and merely had a rough quarter. Thanks again, you were all very helpful.

 

[nabilesmail]

I have a similar situation

3.65 freshman
3.74 sophomore
3.8 junior
3.0 senior (over 30 units though)

I applied to 30 schools complete in aug, 0 interviews, though im also a reapplicant

 

[onthefence]

What were your overall GPA and score on the MCAT?

 

[nabilesmail]

3.6/3.63 34

 

[Goro]

Very sorry to hear about your dad. I think if you explain this from t heart in interviews, because you WILL be asked about it, then I think you'll be fine.

How seriously is a downward trend in GPA looked upon? I wonder if this is even the right question to ask, because frankly the truth is I did well throughout college but simply bombed my final quarter, though there is a steady slow decline throughout. I began really strong, and even pulled off several quarters as high as 26 units while maintaining a 3.7-3.8 so I could finish a little early. I was nothing but As with a B here and there, then in the fall of my senior year with my last major class, a physical chem lab, I finished with a C and nothing but pass/fail classes to counter it. It's only one class, and it didn't bring my total down by much, but it's embarrassing, and I couldn't have gotten a C at a worse time if you ask me. My GPA breakdown is as follows.

Freshman: 3.86c/3.85s
Sophomore: 3.73c/3.73s
Junior: 3.70c/3.67s
Senior: 2.0c/2.0s
Overall: 3.73c/3.71s

I could spin all manner of excuses between nearing graduation, a false sense of completion, my father passing away, and beginning work at my first real job, but none of that changes the record. Is this as bad as I'm making it out to be? What else will be scrutinized besides the trend and the overall average?

 

[milski]

Activating LizzyM beacon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (We should just have a Batman signal thing up for her.....though I think she probably just searches her name to find posts calling for her help )

I think doing this @LizzyM actually works in a similar way, at least it does on some other boards.

 

[BABSstudent]

How seriously is a downward trend in GPA looked upon? I wonder if this is even the right question to ask, because frankly the truth is I did well throughout college but simply bombed my final quarter, though there is a steady slow decline throughout. I began really strong, and even pulled off several quarters as high as 26 units while maintaining a 3.7-3.8 so I could finish a little early. I was nothing but As with a B here and there, then in the fall of my senior year with my last major class, a physical chem lab, I finished with a C and nothing but pass/fail classes to counter it. It's only one class, and it didn't bring my total down by much, but it's embarrassing, and I couldn't have gotten a C at a worse time if you ask me. My GPA breakdown is as follows.

Freshman: 3.86c/3.85s
Sophomore: 3.73c/3.73s
Junior: 3.70c/3.67s
Senior: 2.0c/2.0s
Overall: 3.73c/3.71s

I could spin all manner of excuses between nearing graduation, a false sense of completion, my father passing away, and beginning work at my first real job, but none of that changes the record. Is this as bad as I'm making it out to be? What else will be scrutinized besides the trend and the overall average?

Hopefully you don't apply to any schools that do a weighted GPA.

 

[inycepoo]

I think doing this @LizzyM actually works in a similar way, at least it does on some other boards.

Oh right I totally forgot about the new tagging feature.

@LizzyM WE NEED YOUUUUUU

 

[milski]

Hopefully you don't apply to any schools that do a weighted GPA.

Are you aware of any other schools but UW who do that?

 

[BABSstudent]

Are you aware of any other schools but UW who do that?

No. But I never actually looked into it.

 

[LizzyM]

I love this new @ feature. Feel free to use it at any time.
OP, when I see a dip in GPA as severe as yours, particularly when it didn't make such a big dent in your overall GPA, I say to myself, "There's a story there." The first story is that you did very well with heavy course loads. The second story is that you took 3 classes in a single term and earned C, P and P. We all know PChem is a bear (I never took it and even I know it is brutal.) So this is unfortunate but not going to kill your application. If reading further in your personal statement, in a LOR from an advisor, and/or in a secondary, I get the rest of the story (work, dad's death, etc) then I have an even better picture of something quite out of the ordinary that would be further evidence that this is not something that raises concern about the applicant's ability to do well in a challenging curriculum.

 

[onthefence]

Hopefully you don't apply to any schools that do a weighted GPA.

What difference would this make? Are there schools that consider each year equal regardless of the relative number of units taken during each one?

@LizzyM: So this is something you would want to see described explicitly right from the beginning in a personal statement, before ever meeting or speaking with me? Of course, you would want more details in any interviews that might take place, but you feel this kind of situation is explained away reasonably well enough? How about the decline in the first three years? Is that inconsequential when the overall GPA remains as high as mine?

 

[milski]

What difference would this make? Are there schools that consider each year equal regardless of the relative number of units taken during each one?

@LizzyM: So this is something you would want to see described explicitly right from the beginning in a personal statement, before ever meeting or speaking with me? Of course, you would want more details in any interviews that might take place, but you feel this kind of situation is explained away reasonably well enough? How about the decline in the first three years? Is that inconsequential when the overall GPA remains as high as mine?

Some schools (the University of Washington being the only example me or BABStudent could come up with) will weigh your grades from different years differently. For example, when calculating your GPA, UW uses the credits from the transcript for the first year, twice the credits from the transcript for the second year and three times the credits for the rest. So if you took one class for 5 credits as a freshman and got 2.0 and one class for 5 credits as a sophomore and got 4.0, your GPA is (5*2+5*2*4)/(5+2*5)=50/15=3.33. You can see how that can be rather unpleasant in your case.

 

[LizzyM]

You can list your dad's name on your application and if you do so you will list him as no longer living. That's a clue. If what happened to your dad fits with your essay's theme, then you are provided more information that helps explain what happened. Sometimes a secondary will have an opportunity to bring up something like this. If you get a LOR from someone who gave you a P grade and if they had knowledge of your dad's illness & death then they might put something in the letter about how you dealt with the shock of his passing and got through your assignments to complete your degree. The point is, you need to convince the adcom, before they meet you, that you are worthy of an interview and the more of the story you get out there, the better the chances that they will take a chance on you. Look at the percentage of applicants who are interviewed. It is almost always a very low proportion so you have to tell your story and dispel the notion that you fell apart and had a terrible 4th year. (It was only 3 courses while a full year is usually 10 courses, right?)

As for U Washington, unless you are from Washington or one of those WAMI states, don't even worry about it!