DVM/PhD Programs?

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princesspeaches

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Has anyone had any experience or have any thoughts about DVM/PhD programs?

I'm currently halfway through a thesis-based Master's program (toxicology) and applying for veterinary school for admission in 2011, after completion of my program.

I would like to continue in research AND be a vet, so this sounds perfect. And some of the programs are really well-funded. Spending around 14 consecutive years in higher education does sound a bit painful--I just need to try think too hard about spending the entirety of my twenties in universities :p

Anyone else applying? How insanely competitive are these programs? I haven't been able to find applied vs. admitted stats or successful applicant stats for any of them.

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Has anyone had any experience or have any thoughts about DVM/PhD programs?

I'm currently halfway through a thesis-based Master's program (toxicology) and applying for veterinary school for admission in 2011, after completion of my program.

I would like to continue in research AND be a vet, so this sounds perfect. And some of the programs are really well-funded. Spending around 14 consecutive years in higher education does sound a bit painful--I just need to try think too hard about spending the entirety of my twenties in universities :p

Anyone else applying? How insanely competitive are these programs? I haven't been able to find applied vs. admitted stats or successful applicant stats for any of them.

I think it varies a LOT by school.

I briefly considered Minnesota's. Here, you don't apply to the DVM/Ph.D. program until your second year. You can either do the Ph.D. between your your second and third years or after you have completed your DVM. If you do the Ph.D. in the middle, you get some financial support for your last two years of vet school.

I know other schools (CSU, Penn?) do it differently and you apply as an incoming student specifically to the DVM/Ph.D. programs. But it does vary.
 
Anyone else applying? How insanely competitive are these programs? I haven't been able to find applied vs. admitted stats or successful applicant stats for any of them.

They're very competitive. IIRC CSU had something like 50 applicants and accepted 2 into their DVM/PhD, Davis had 20-something and accepted 1 or 2...yeah.
 
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I'm applying. :) They sound like amazing programs, though spending 7+ more years in school is a bit daunting. ;D

I'd really love to go to Cornell for their dual program (always tempted to write duel... subconscious violent tendencies?), though as an out-of-state student I'm very intimidated. Heehee.
 
I'm interested in UPenn and Cornell's programs, in part because of the way they integrate the PhD/DVM program and pay the veterinary tuition! But mostly because they are awesome research programs.

On the other hand, I can do research as a vet without getting my PhD and being in school for an extra 4 years. So, still undecided if it'd be worth it.

UPenn is trying to expand their program by an additional 6-8 students/year right now, so this year might be a good time to apply. Their website says that currently, around 10-15% of students that apply are offered admission.
 
Don't forget that the amount of time it takes to do the phd portion is not set in stone. A "normal" (ie. Not joint) program in a biological science takes on avg 5-6 years to complete. It all depends on your project and I do know students who have had to spend 6 years on their research portion despite being in a joint program. You can't rush research, so just keep in mind that the 4yrs for dvm/4yrs for phd may actually be longer than expected. If you actually ask the schools they will tell you it is an estimate, not a guarentee.

Just a heads up :)

I think if you can get vet school paid for and really (I mean REALLY) love research with your heart and soul,then a combined program can be great.

But research is a difficult lifestyle choice especially in academia which is where your phd would open doors, I don't really recommend doing a phd to, well almost anyone, it sucks. Hardcore. Unfortunately no one can realize than til they get to the dreaded 3rd year or so and are too far in to stop and also too far from graduating.

But we def need people to do vet related research so I'd say consider it if you really want research to be your career. Dont do it if you know you want to go into clinical medicine later.

Hope that helps a bit. Even if by just describing done of the negatives of it all. Good luck!
 
Don't forget that the amount of time it takes to do the phd portion is not set in stone. A "normal" (ie. Not joint) program in a biological science takes on avg 5-6 years to complete. It all depends on your project and I do know students who have had to spend 6 years on their research portion despite being in a joint program. You can't rush research, so just keep in mind that the 4yrs for dvm/4yrs for phd may actually be longer than expected. If you actually ask the schools they will tell you it is an estimate, not a guarentee.

Just a heads up :)

I think if you can get vet school paid for and really (I mean REALLY) love research with your heart and soul,then a combined program can be great.

But research is a difficult lifestyle choice especially in academia which is where your phd would open doors, I don't really recommend doing a phd to, well almost anyone, it sucks. Hardcore. Unfortunately no one can realize than til they get to the dreaded 3rd year or so and are too far in to stop and also too far from graduating.

But we def need people to do vet related research so I'd say consider it if you really want research to be your career. Dont do it if you know you want to go into clinical medicine later.

Hope that helps a bit. Even if by just describing done of the negatives of it all. Good luck!

I work in a research lab where all of our PhD students are veterinarians (some foreign, some from the US). I would agree with all of this, from what I've observed.

It's stressful. Nothing ever goes on schedule. Sometimes you have to go out of the country to visit home, or you have a baby, or whatever else happens. None of them want to continue to or CAN continue in clinical careers... so while this was a happy choice for some, it was a actually a bitter choice for others. Their research is great and I admire them, but I do not want to do what they do. :/
 
Oh I'm well aware of the unpleasant aspects of getting a PhD--I'm entering my second year of a thesis-based master's program. I work with a lot of not-so-happy PhD students. None of them are getting out in 4 years.

My interest in research is definitely why I'd apply. Applying because of a tuition waiver doesn't make a lot of sense, because I'd be losing out on ~4 years of income as a vet.
 
I'm doing umn's dual-degree program. One thing that helps you get the phd time down at umn is that the research rotations you would normally do during your 1st phd year are done during the summers of your 1st and 2nd vet years (yes, before you are technically accepted, it's all very nebulous and confusing). In fact, you lose your tuition incentives if you don't defend on time.
 
However, you don't need a phd to do research as a veterinarian. Most schools offer summer research programs that allow you to get a feel for research as a DVM, and there are positions in industry and elsewhere that you can work in. The phd is not an absolute prereq for research.
 
I am considering applying to a phd/dvm program as well and was wondering what the average "stats" are for people who are admitted to the programs? I am specifically interested in working in a couple of the wildlife-health labs at CSU. What are the GPA, GRE, research hours, research degrees, hours working under a DVM for successful dual program candidates? I had an undergrad 3.96, graduate 4.0, GRE of 610/720/5.5. I am a wildlife MS student, and therefore have many hours of wildlife handling time (around 900, species ranging from birds to bighorn sheep), but do not have any experience actually working under a DVM. I also have lots of hours of research experience on wildlife diet and parasitology (and expect about 3 publications on the subject by the time I finish up, and probably have several thousand hours of research time supervised by PhDs - been working in research for the last 8 years), as well as various other things. However, is my lack of clinical experience going to automatically rule me out of a combined degree? Thanks so much! Happy to post more stats if need be!
 
I think applications depend on the school.

FWIW, Oklahoma State's program sounds like Minnesota's. You enter as a regular veterinary student and experience research over the summer, probably through the Merial/NIH Summer Research Program. You can take additional research electives during your second year. I think the school keeps track of which students pursue research and bring up the dual degree possibility with them during their second year.

Personally, I like the system. You don't get support during the first two years of vet school, but you do get time working in your potential PhD lab before you have to commit to the program.
 
I'll be all over this in a day or two. Or on a study break. Two midterms.
 
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I'm definitely applying to Penn's combined program this year, so we'll see how that goes!
 
I've got a weird question related to this.

I'm interested in possibly going through a DVM/PhD program, but I want to get my PhD in Mathematics or a discipline of engineering (biomedical, biomechanical, maybe chemical).

Is that possible? I'm interested in mathematical modeling and in biomechanics (so, like making technology that benefits by copying the movement of an animal, or using an animal's distribution of weight to better build things).

Thanks to whoever answers!
 
I've got a weird question related to this.

I'm interested in possibly going through a DVM/PhD program, but I want to get my PhD in Mathematics or a discipline of engineering (biomedical, biomechanical, maybe chemical).

Is that possible? I'm interested in mathematical modeling and in biomechanics (so, like making technology that benefits by copying the movement of an animal, or using an animal's distribution of weight to better build things).

Thanks to whoever answers!
OT: That sounds really awesome! I took a class on bioengineering in undergrad and it was super interesting! We wound up making a functional jellyfish model using solenoids.
 
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I think you would need to discuss that with the individual programs. My program almost let me go for a PhD in Epidemiology or Biostatistics (both of which would have been off-campus), but I had to put things together in a hurry and it ended up being a better idea to stay with my mentor in Veterinary Biomedical Sciences.
 
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