Edinburgh

[annaig]

I've got two kitties of my own, but I think that I'm going to have to adopt them out. = (
My family is horribly allergic to cats, and I'm worried about taking them over seas. What would happen during breaks when I come back state side? Not to mention the cost of ISO chipping, pulling titers, and flying to kitties to Scotland! *le sigh*

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[sdb9]

I began filling out my application today, and was wondering if I should indicate that I was pursuing a 2nd bachelor's or a professional degree. Any thoughts?

Hi,
I am currently an American at Edinburgh. Definately put you are in a professional degree program. As far as the American government/educational system is concerned, this is grad school.

 

[annaig]

Fantastic. I just turned in my application and submitted as professional. How are you liking UoE?

 

[sdb9]

Well, it definately has its challenges. Right now things aren't so great around the school because we just found out they are raising our tuition 1000 pounds per year. We are all really upset since we are already paying a lot and 1000 pounds a year seems excessive. I guess the incoming class has their tuition rate locked in so you won't have to worry about that!

 

[annaig]

Ouch, what a bummer! Hopefully they are going to lock in your tuition after that hike.

 

[annaig]

Yay! Yvonne emailed me the other day to let me know that she got my transcript and that she's preparing my unconditional offer!

 

[hendo]

So I'm confused. If I put that I'm in a professional degree program on the FAFSA application, how much money in loans can I possibly get (subsidized and unsubsidized). I'm hearing rumors that FAFSA will only cover $18,000, which doesn't go to far...If I have to take private loans out at some rediculous interest rate to go to Scotland, I'm not sure I can do that. Compounding interest is scary over the corse of 4 years...

 

[sdb9]

So I'm confused. If I put that I'm in a professional degree program on the FAFSA application, how much money in loans can I possibly get (subsidized and unsubsidized). I'm hearing rumors that FAFSA will only cover $18,000, which doesn't go to far...If I have to take private loans out at some rediculous interest rate to go to Scotland, I'm not sure I can do that. Compounding interest is scary over the corse of 4 years...

I don't know who is saying $18,000 but that is totally wrong. They must be talking about something else I took out about $37,000 for my first year and this wasn't even the max. I think that max government (Subsidized and unsubsidized) is around $20,000 and then you take out a Plus loan, which is also a government loan. EVERYONE who is paying for their school has to go for the plus because obviously $20,000 just won't cover tuition and living. If you need more than that (some kids do) you have to take private loans. The max loan amount is actually higher for professional school programs because they tend to cost more.

 

[cwazy cat lady]

I don't know who is saying $18,000 but that is totally wrong. They must be talking about something else I took out about $37,000 for my first year and this wasn't even the max. I think that max government (Subsidized and unsubsidized) is around $20,000 and then you take out a Plus loan, which is also a government loan. EVERYONE who is paying for their school has to go for the plus because obviously $20,000 just won't cover tuition and living. If you need more than that (some kids do) you have to take private loans. The max loan amount is actually higher for professional school programs because they tend to cost more.

Hey, sdb9:

I would really like to hear more about your experience at Edinburgh because my two top choices are WSU and the Royal Dick School.

I see you were in Seattle at some point. UW student, by any chance?

What led you to choose Edinburgh? What have you been surprised by, disappointed by (other than the tuition hike...)? How does it compare to any US University educational experiences you've had? (etc...) what advice do you have for applicants or prospective students? I am very very curious!

 

[sheep girl]

I was not able to attend either acceptance meeting this Febuary. I just recieved a copy of the DVD that was show at the meetings; however, it will not play. Is anyone else having this problem?

 

[hendo]

Thanks sdb9! I too am wondering your honest opinions about the school. I can't decide between Illinois, Iowa, or Edinburgh...The easiest route would be a US school, but that doesn't sound very exciting!

Additionally sdb9, tuition is around $40,000, what do you do for living expenses, etc?

 

[CalpardNY]

Thanks sdb9! I too am wondering your honest opinions about the school. I can't decide between Illinois, Iowa, or Edinburgh...The easiest route would be a US school, but that doesn't sound very exciting!

I am currently trying to decide between Illinois and Glasgow (though that is a 5 year program!) and I am in the same boat. Especially since Illinois is so expensive OOS! Its a tough decision - but the best one we can have to make!

 

[annaig]

So.... this might sound like a silly question, but how do you get loans? I was lucky enough not to need them in undergrad, so I am at a complete loss now. I filled out my FAFSA, and I'm waiting for them to mail me a hard copy. Then what happens?

 

[zut]

If the GEP programme starts 5 weeks before normal classes, does anyone know if the university offers accommodation services during that time? I don't see any information on their website.

 

[PJlovin]

I am currently trying to decide between Illinois and Glasgow (though that is a 5 year program!) and I am in the same boat. Especially since Illinois is so expensive OOS! Its a tough decision - but the best one we can have to make!

What is the OOS cost for Illinois? Is it more than Glasgow?

 

[kekemapa04]

If the GEP programme starts 5 weeks before normal classes, does anyone know if the university offers accommodation services during that time? I don't see any information on their website.

Yes, they will provide you with accommodation, but you will probably not get the same place for those 5 weeks as you would have for the whole year. They said that you would probably have to move after those 5 weeks. You could always email Yvonne and ask her about it as well, I am sure she has more info about it.

 

[CalpardNY]

What is the OOS cost for Illinois? Is it more than Glasgow?

Its about 37,500 with just tuition and fees. Glasgow comes out to about 35,000. So it really comes down to living and that extra year to make it more!

 

[PJlovin]

Its about 37,500 with just tuition and fees. Glasgow comes out to about 35,000. So it really comes down to living and that extra year to make it more!

If it helps...I don't believe you're going to have to worry about paying for health insurance at Glasgow. From what I've read (and understood), all full-time students are covered under the NHS (National Health Insurance). I wrote to an alumni recently to see if that was true or if you still need to have secondary coverage.....I'll let you know what they say. But if it is true, you can subtract that from the cost of living at Glasgow.

I've been worried about the cost too...but I'll probably pick up a part time job after the 1st semester. Every little bit helps!

 

[birdvet2006]

If it helps...I don't believe you're going to have to worry about paying for health insurance at Glasgow. From what I've read (and understood), all full-time students are covered under the NHS (National Health Insurance). I wrote to an alumni recently to see if that was true or if you still need to have secondary coverage.....I'll let you know what they say. But if it is true, you can subtract that from the cost of living at Glasgow.

I've been worried about the cost too...but I'll probably pick up a part time job after the 1st semester. Every little bit helps!

True, you just sign up with a GP once you arrive in Glasgow. Sign up for a dentist too...if you dare (the 2 I went to didn't wear gloves...so didn't want to get my dentistry stuff done in the UK!). Birth control is usually free too, from what I was told by friends when I was a student.

I went to the GP a good handful of times over my 5 years and never had to pay a thing!

 

[PJlovin]

True, you just sign up with a GP once you arrive in Glasgow. Sign up for a dentist too...if you dare (the 2 I went to didn't wear gloves...so didn't want to get my dentistry stuff done in the UK!). Birth control is usually free too, from what I was told by friends when I was a student.

I went to the GP a good handful of times over my 5 years and never had to pay a thing!

Did you have secondary coverage for "just in case"? Like, did you still keep your US insurance or have traveller's insurance? Or did you just rely on NHS?

Yeah, and dentist w/o gloves?!? Yuck!

 

[birdvet2006]

Did you have secondary coverage for "just in case"? Like, did you still keep your US insurance or have traveller's insurance? Or did you just rely on NHS?

Yeah, and dentist w/o gloves?!? Yuck!

No, I just had NHS. I think I only took insurance out once, in order to do a RAVS (Rural Area Veterinary Services) trip...it was required.

 

[hendo]

As of now, I've been accepted into three schools, Iowa, Illinois, and Edinburgh Scotland. I've been comparing the schools very intensely, especially the loans we can get. When you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, decimal points do matter! Here's what I've found out, tell me if I'm mistaken.

For a OOS school in the U.S. (Illinois, in my situation) I can get:

• $8,500 per year with a 6.0% APR subsidized loan (new interest rate for 2008-2009, or so the Financial aid office said at Illinois) - called a "Federal Stafford subsidized loan"
• Additionally, I can get a $30,000 per year with a 6.8% APR unsubsidized loan - which is called a "Federal Stafford unsubsidized loan"
• *Subsidized means interest is paid for by the government until 6 months after you graduate (4.5 years from August 2008)
• Finally, if the $38,500 from those two loans don't cover my expenses (which they wont for OOS school), you can borrow more money (pretty much as much as you want, from what I understand) with the "Federal Graduate Plus loan" - which has 7.9% APR

Now for the comparison against Edinburgh:

• You can borrow $8,500 of the "Federal Stafford subsidized loan" at 6.0% APR (which is the same)
• BUT, you can only borrow $12,000 of the "Federal Staffor UNSUBSIDIZED loan: at 6.8%

In the end, what does this mean? It means, if a veterinary school year cost $60,000 per year for both schools (University of Illinois and University of Edinburgh). In Illinois, you'll be borrowing money every year at an overall lower interest ($8,500 at 6.0%, $30,000 at 6.8%, and $21,500 at 7.9%), where with Edinburgh, you'll be borrowing the same amount of money at a higher interest over the course of 4 years ($8,500 at 6.0%, $12,000 at 6.8%, and $39,500 at 7.9%)...

I haven't figured out the 4 year totals yet (don't really now how to quite honestly), but when I do, I'll get back to ya! But yeah, that's just something to think about!

OH! One other thing! It's important to consider whether the U.S. is actually going into a "recession" or not. The buying power of the American dollar is decreasing everyday. So even though Tuition for Edinburgh Scotland is 19,500 GBP (pounds) OR $39,000 (math: 19,500 GBP x 2.0 - the current exchange rate), who knows how much it'll cost next year. Lets say the power of the pound increases 15% by August 2010, tuition for an American oversees will cost $44,850 (19,500 GBP x 2.3), because the American dollar buying power will be so horrible....that's $5,850 more that you didn't know you'd have to pay! Crazy...

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but I thought you guys would want to know...

 

[VAgirl]

• $8,500 per year with a 6.0% APR subsidized loan (new interest rate for 2008-2009, or so the Financial aid office said at Illinois) - called a "Federal Stafford subsidized loan"

That's interesting. The interest rate on the subsidized stafford used to be 6.8%, so that means it's gone down. Nice.

Also, just to make sure you know it, the $8,500 subsidized is only if you have financial need (which you undoubtedly would out of the country, but maybe not at Illinois if it is your in state school...you'd need to figure this out based off of the cost of attendance and your expected family contribution which you figure out once you've filed your FAFSA). For arguments sake, if you don't have any financial need, then you wouldn't qualify for $8,500 sub. If you have some financial need, you could qualify for some of the $8,500 sub. The left over amount of sub stafford that you didn't qualify for gets lumped in with your unsubsidized stafford amount.

Thanks for the info on the new sub stafford rates!

 

[hendo]

I figured out the totals for the two different schools (OOS and Edinburgh) with the different loans and the different interest rates for those loans (indicated in my previous post). The difference in the two totals does not come from the difference in loans you can get and their interest rates. In fact, the biggest difference between OOS school the U.S. (Illinois in my case) and Edinburgh, was a more of a result of whether you could work during the summer and the rent differences between the two locations. Rent in Edinburgh is roughly $700 (on average) and rent in Illinois is $400. This is a $3600 difference annually.

Additionally, with Edinburgh's EMS, you can't work during the summers. This is potentially $4000-$4800 of lost income that could be put towards living expenses the following year. Thus, if you add $3600 and $4000, that's a $7600 difference every year....

So here's the totals I came up with (with interest rates, rent, and working during the summer included):

Illinois: ~$240,000 at the end of 4 years with the loans and interest rates indicated in an earlier post

Edinburgh: ~$283,000 at the end of 4 years...

Hope that helps! If not, sorry bout this nonsense!

 

[PJlovin]

Additionally, with Edinburgh's EMS, you can't work during the summers. This is potentially $4000-$4800 of lost income that could be put towards living expenses the following year. Thus, if you add $3600 and $4000, that's a $7600 difference every year....

At Glasgow, I heard there is potential to make money during EMS. For example, lambing....some people will pay you, and the more experience you have, the more you will be paid.

Is this not an option at Edinburgh?

 

[hendo]

I think it might be an option. I'm not sure how many people actually get paid for their EMS though...

I'm so torn between an OOS school in the U.S. and Edinburgh!

 

[annaig]

Illinois: ~$240,000 at the end of 4 years with the loans and interest rates indicated in an earlier post

Edinburgh: ~$283,000 at the end of 4 years...

Hope that helps! If not, sorry bout this nonsense!

"Only" a $40,000 difference! And I think you can work during the summers if you plan your EMS correctly and maybe get out of some. I hope to have 6 wks done before classes start.

 

[birdvet2006]

"Only" a $40,000 difference! And I think you can work during the summers if you plan your EMS correctly and maybe get out of some. I hope to have 6 wks done before classes start.

Yes, this is true. Especially in the first 2-3 years, you should have time to do some work. For instance, a classmate of mine continued to work at a California small animal emergency clinic as a technician during her breaks. I worked on some of my breaks as a technician as well, at the same place I worked prior to vet school. They paid me more too...as a result of me being a vet student. I still was paying rent back in Scotland (for me it was about $600/month and I had a flatmate who paid the same)...and lived with my parents during my breaks (no rent there).

 

[annaig]

I'm so worried about my debt when this is all done, especially if the dollar tanks. How are you all handling the student loans? Do you think that starting salaries are going to be sufficient to keep up with loan payments? And supposing we go for a residency... there is hardly any money in that until you are done. Can you put off paying back loans until you are done?

 

[cwazy cat lady]

I think it might be an option. I'm not sure how many people actually get paid for their EMS though...

I'm so torn between an OOS school in the U.S. and Edinburgh!

Go to Edinburgh!! You'll be in big debt it looks like, either way, between OOS or UK.

Have you seen photos of and read about Edinburgh? It's a very hip place...


At least enjoy the context of creating that big loan load...

 

[hendo]

Haha. I agree cwazy, the reason I applied is because I was fortunate enough to have visited a couple years back. The city is seriously out of a fairy tale. Cobble-stone roads speckled with little pubs, a ginormous castle at the center of the city, and locals that you can barely understand. Truly out of this world...

$40,000 is not much of a difference when you're talking $200,000+ dollars in debt. It's like an additional $100 ontop of your already $1000+ monthly loan payment (mind you, you're paying that extra $100 for the rest of your life...). I've talked to multiple people; doctors, vets, teachers. They all agree I should look at the programs, because education is the most important factor, and decide which one I like best...

I'm glad people are still talking about this! Keep the good convo going!

 

[PJlovin]

"Only" a $40,000 difference! And I think you can work during the summers if you plan your EMS correctly and maybe get out of some. I hope to have 6 wks done before classes start.

You can start EMS BEFORE you start classes?!?

I wonder if that's an option at Glasgow.

 

[hendo]

I'm not sure if that's for the 4 year GEP program only though. I think they do that, because it's kind of hard to finish 10 weeks of EMS furing you're winter and spring breaks (actually, now that I think of it, it's impossible ). So yeah, I'm not sure if the 5 year program peeps can do that.

 

[birdvet2006]

You can start EMS BEFORE you start classes?!?

I wonder if that's an option at Glasgow.

Yes, you can get credit for things you've already done. I think I counted my vet tech experience towards the "kennel/cattery" requirement.

 

[annaig]

The more I think about it, the more I resent UF for calling me so late in the game to give me an interview AFTER they rejected me. Even though my parents say they will support my decision no matter which school I choose, they are really putting the pressure on me to go to UF. They keep reminding me of the debt that will quickly build up (200+k...), what if the dollar tanks, how will I pay off the debt, etc etc etc. parents are so obnoxious!!!!!


hm... ranting DOES make you feel better!

 

[annaig]

So, the topic of Edinburgh came up during my UF interview. And it just so happened that one of my interviewers was from England and had studied in Australia. He said that he would not recommend that I go to UoE mostly because of the cultural adjustment is hard for American students, and he could see me (Cuban-Puerto Rican) having an especially hard time. He also said that even though it is a good school, it still carries that "foreign school" label and is not as highly regarded as American schools.

What do you all think of this?

 

[VAgirl]

So, the topic of Edinburgh came up during my UF interview. And it just so happened that one of my interviewers was from England and had studied in Australia. He said that he would not recommend that I go to UoE mostly because of the cultural adjustment is hard for American students, and he could see me (Cuban-Puerto Rican) having an especially hard time. He also said that even though it is a good school, it still carries that "foreign school" label and is not as highly regarded as American schools.

What do you all think of this?

Wow, I really hope that was in the context of a mindblowingly awesome interview where they made sure you came away feeling totally confident they're going to make you an offer to UF. Otherwise that would kinda tick me off that he basically dumped on your other option. Honesty is great, within reason.

 

[annaig]

I don't think he was trying to be mean, I think he was just trying to give me grandfatherly advice (he looked like he was at least 70!). I thought the interview had gone great until he said that he'd prefer to see me take and off year than go to UoE. What does that mean?! Was he trying to tell me better luck next year? If I wasn't good enough last year, and I'm not good enough this year, what's to say that I won't be good enough next year? I mean honestly, I have to draw the line somewhere. Eventually I need to start my education and get my life moving. Can't keep my life on hold until UF deems me good enough for them.

 

[lenadeb]

I don't think he was trying to be mean, I think he was just trying to give me grandfatherly advice (he looked like he was at least 70!). I thought the interview had gone great until he said that he'd prefer to see me take and off year than go to UoE. What does that mean?! Was he trying to tell me better luck next year? If I wasn't good enough last year, and I'm not good enough this year, what's to say that I won't be good enough next year? I mean honestly, I have to draw the line somewhere. Eventually I need to start my education and get my life moving. Can't keep my life on hold until UF deems me good enough for them.

1. Relax
2. He probably thinks EVERY student needs a year "off" between undergrad and professional school. Not bad advice, really, as you get to expand your experiences outside of the limits of college, etc.
3. He is just 1 person of many that may (or may not) be sitting in that room (as we type) deciding your fate, my fate and the fate of 190 other CVM C/O 2012 hopefuls. Besides, I doubt the comments made it to the score sheet page.
4. If you wish to go to UoE, go. Don't let UF slow you down!

Ommmmmm ..... Ommmmmm ..... meditate on the Zen of Admission to Vet School ... Ommmmm

Better now?

 

[VAgirl]

I don't think he was trying to be mean, I think he was just trying to give me grandfatherly advice (he looked like he was at least 70!). I thought the interview had gone great until he said that he'd prefer to see me take and off year than go to UoE. What does that mean?! Was he trying to tell me better luck next year? If I wasn't good enough last year, and I'm not good enough this year, what's to say that I won't be good enough next year? I mean honestly, I have to draw the line somewhere. Eventually I need to start my education and get my life moving. Can't keep my life on hold until UF deems me good enough for them.

Plus, perhaps things have changed quite a bit in recent years. I mean, he's on the faculty I assume, so to some extent he should be tied into how different educations are viewed. But perhaps recent grads aren't having to try and overcome as many biases as he had to 40+ years ago.

 

[annaig]

1. Relax
2. He probably thinks EVERY student needs a year "off" between undergrad and professional school. Not bad advice, really, as you get to expand your experiences outside of the limits of college, etc.

This is me relaxed; you don't want to see me stressed, . At least I can laugh at myself about it. And I have taken a year off. It was boring.... as sick as it may sound, I miss school! Must... have... more... edumacation....


But yeah, I should just chill out, do some oms and moos (like the California cows!), and burn incense in the hopes of appeasing the admissions committee gods. Let us all join hands and moo together.

 

[lenadeb]

Let us all join hands and moo together.

Moo

Moooooooooo

 

[VAgirl]

Moo

Moooooooooo

MOO! (I wanted to join the fun)

 

[annaig]

So, now that the time to make final decisions draws near, who is still thinking about UoE?

 

[zedrick]

hey all-
just read this thread and, though i might be biased, here's my tale-
i work at the bronx zoo wildlife health center and both resident vets there (from U Penn) gave me big thumbs up on U of E. One said he is even jealous that i'm going there and if he could do it over. . .esp. since the recent connection with the roslin institute. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7324197.stm
more money, more recognition. U of E is considered one of the top research schools in europe
http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/gooduniversityguide.php?sort=RESEARCH_QUALITY&subject=VETERINARY
they both also said it makes no difference where you go to school, no one really cares, and that the european schools are on par with the "good" schools in the US, as they feel about half of the US schools produced "unimpressive" students. of course this should all be taken with a grain of salt.
and for all you young pups out there (i'm pushing 40 so i can say that), why would you NOT want to live in a foreign country if you can? the experience you would gain from it is priceless, and would truely make you a more well rounded person, with better communication skills and more life experience than most young people. i regret not doing it in undergrad and grad school. you will be in debt regardless, so make it worthwhile!
oi! scotland! haggis for all!

So, now that the time to make final decisions draws near, who is still thinking about UoE?

 

[audreyhepburn]

Hi I am new to the forum, but have been accepted to edinburgh and plan on going there in the fall. I was just wondering where is the best place to live? I was hoping current students or those who have already filled out the accomidation application could give some advice. I now university housing is probably best for the 1st year, but catered/self-catered? what is closest to the vet school?

I am also a little concerned because I am older (25) and have been living on my own for a while now, is it to hard to go back to "dorm life".

 

[zut]

Hello loves -

I've made up my mind and I'm going to Edinburgh, but this loan process is killing me. I applied through Sallie Mae and have yet to hear about the Stafford loans, which as far as I can tell means I have to wait before I can apply for the Graduate Plus. Also, when I applied the only options available were for 2007-2008! Anyone out there able to tell me what's going on? As the deadline draws near I get more and more anxious! I sent Sallie Mae an email but if anyone has gone through the hassle and knows how to help....

 

[Live4Life]

Did you have secondary coverage for "just in case"? Like, did you still keep your US insurance or have traveller's insurance? Or did you just rely on NHS?

Yeah, and dentist w/o gloves?!? Yuck!

You absolutely need to maintain insurance in the US while you are gone if you have any type of pre-existing condition or else you will find yourself ineligible for coverage of that condition once you return to the US for usually 12 months. Foreign health insurance isn't usually taken into consideration by US health insurance companies when reducing the 12 month exclusion.

 

[lazyjayn]

Hey zut- I used AES for my fed loans, and xpress for most of my private ones. But when I used S.Mae, they were very speedy, so i don't know what's up with that.

Usually (in NZ) the thing holding up my money was the school- you might want to try calling them, and see what's up.

General suggestion- make sure you bring/ post to yourself your favorite local foods. Or the prepared stuff that just shouts "home" to you. Because when you're down and feeling out of place, there's nothing like some fast enchiladas or kraft mac and cheese, or doritos (or grits, I guess....) to make you feel connected to stuff back home. And they aren't always easy to find in other places.

Also- try not to just hang out with the other NA's. It's easy, but then it's also easier to get stuck in a "I miss home" rut. And make time to see Europe! It's right there!

-j.

 

[annaig]

Sending in my deposit today, $3,000. Mailing a preliminary financial guarantee tomorrow, $2.00. Reprinting a bunch of papers because they got wet and are all crinkly, $1.00. Knowing that I am that much closer to Scotland, priceless!
Hehe, couldn't help myself.

Next step, getting a VISA, reserving that hotel thing, and buying plane tickets. And pulling a loan to pay for all of this!

On top of it all, I am also working madly on my EMS forms for horses and cats/dogs. And trying to figure out where I can do one for bunnies and guinea pigs. Perhaps work with birds for a free choice....

Is there anything else that I should be doing? I can't tell!