employment after dental school

[logistical99]

Exactly what makes for a competitive applicant when hunting for a job as a dental associate? How much weight do prospective employers put on dental gpas, board scores, and the dental school attended? Do the employers also look for volunteer/community service work? Do they place high importance on the grad's history of internships and experiences in the dental field? What are the typical starting salaries for these jobs? Do the employers offer relocation benefits?

Back in college ( and this was during the dot.com years and the school usually is nationally ranked at around 14th or 17th within the top 20 schools ), I remember many fellow engineering grads who were unable to land a job six months after graduation because their gpas were below a 3.0. Many of them were frustrated by the difficulty in finding engineering jobs and hence some landed in places like nursing schools, electronic sales, advertising, and social services.

Do similar scenarios offer for some dental grads? Do any of you know of dental grads who were unable to land jobs upon graduation?

Are there a lot of people in dental schools who get like a 2.0 dental gpas, barely passes board exams, and have no internship/experience in the dentistry field? Are they sought after by employers?

And one more thing: My questions and concerns all relate to finding jobs as dental associates upon graduation, and nothing obscure and strange like jobs within Indian reservation sites, public health and awareness, military, ...I'm sure you get my point.

Thanks much and god bless.

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[Blackstars]

I cannot answer your question, but I suggest you post this question in the dental forum since it is where working dentist and pre dents often visit.

 

[DrJeff]

More often than not, when you're going through the dental job hunt after school, it's not as much "what were your board scores??" as it is "what type of person are you??" Most dentists looking for an associate, whom often will become a future partner, and will be representing the practice in the community that the senior dentist has often worked very hard to establish a good reputation, will be much more interested in personality and practice philosophy than what grade you got on your crown and bridge final. The most common areas of interest to a potential employer will be: residency/military experience or not?? (experience will equal speed and hence more practice income to most senior dentists), are you licensed to practice in that state?, your family/home situation, your outside of dentistry interests, and your dental practice desires. If you happened to go to the same dental scholl as the senior dentist, you may then be asked if Dr. so and so is still the terror of the oral surgery department or some small talk like that.

Suprisingly enough, when you're actually out in practice, most patients are more interested in where you grew up than where you went to dental school(if they even inquire at all!!) I get asked where I went to school maybe once a month, and my diploma is hanging in my partners and my private office which is in an area of the practice where patients don't go, so it's not like they see my diploma ahead of time and know where I went. I've never once been asked what my grades were by a patient.

Interviewing for a dental associate position is nothing like interviewing for a job in an enginerring/tech/business field. So it actually makes more sense to buff up on your personal skills than your academic laurels for a job in private practice.

 

[logistical99]

So I take it that the job placement rate ( for employment as dental associates ) after graduation from dental schools isn't so consistent and maybe not that great overall. Is this correct?

 

[DrJeff]

On the contrary, it is very consistant. You will find very few, if any unemployed dentists after dental school if they want to work. Suprisingly enough there are a few folks who after completing dental school decide that those 4 years they just went through to get their DMD/DDS gave them the ability to work in a career firld that isn't for them. There is 1 person (out of the 39 that graduated in my class) that decided within 4 months after graduating and working in a very nice practice that dentistry wasn't for her, and she's now a very successful interior designer.

With the simple numbers of dentists retiring verses the those graduating there will not be a problem getting a job after dental school. Will you necessarily get your first choice of jobs, well that depends on where you want to practice and the offer on the table from that office, and how you relate to the owner of that practice (i.e. you could have so-so grades/board scores and get along great with the senior dentist you'd likely get the job over the person with great grades/board scores but just doesn't connect with the senior dentist).

Just remember, when ever you look through any of the dental publications and see adds for various "esteemed" lecturers, you'll never see where they went to school or what their grades were, and these are folks with whom marketing is everything. Just be yourself and graduate, that is the real key to getting a job as a dentist.

 

[logistical99]

I apologize for my neophyte questions but I'm in the process of gathering facts.

Does the rank of a dental school correlate with the starting salaries and/or prestige of dental positions attained by its graduates?

Are there enough dental associate positions for new dental grads? What are their typical starting salaries? How many job offers do dental grads typically receive?

For the best prospects of getting dental jobs or residency positions, is it better for one to perform average at a high ranked dental school or to be in the top 5 - 10% at a low-ranked school?

Two of the several dental schools I got into were UOP and BU. I acknowledge that UOP is the better ranked dental school but UOP has such an obscure name and most people are not familiar at all with this school. Also, BU seems to be more well-recognized and thus a BU degree might be more marketable than a degree from UOP. BU is also a less competitive school than UOP and this can work to the advantage of a student who wants to easily be top in class and have a secure future. What do you think? Is this true?

Lastly, is it all sufficient to have just a 2.0 and barely passing board scores in dental school and have no prior dental/intern experience? What minimum stats/qualifications would you recommend for a dental student who wants to keep all dental job and residency options open upon graduation?

 

[juan7677]

Thanks Dr. Jeff for your responses. They're very informative.

 

[Loudy]

Hi logistical99,

Sure you can do it but I don't think that anyone will encourage you to go out and do the bare minimum. When is it ever highly regarded to get a 2.0, bro? That just means you didn't fail. Maybe if you have a dentist relative who you know you'll be be working with afterwards, I guess.

But I think Dr. Jeff gave you a great answer and that it's pretty clear landing a spot as an associate has less to do with your grades then with your office productivity potential and a compatable personality. Everyone I have ever spoken to has pretty much told me the same as well. That being said, if you are so worried about becoming an associate, how efficient and confident do you really think you'll be if you "barely" made it through school?

As far as residencies go, that's a different story and I wouldn't know firsthand, but I'm pretty sure that ain't going to cut the mustard! I guess it might happen but you better have one heck of a charming personality (or lots of experience). Whoa, hold on, you said with no experience, didn't you? I think in most places that's like gunning for dead last in your class?! One thing is for sure, these are not the types of people committees are actively looking to recruit into their programs. The 2.0 is to pass dental school, not land you residency spots.

And with regards to your schools prestige/rank, don't worry about it. Ranking is more or less useless which is why it's no longer used. I don't think there's much marketability in a name to the patients. If a person walks through the door in pain, they just want someone to calm them down and treat them as fast as possible. Besides, UOP is an awesome school and very well known for producing excellent clinicians. And from what I've heard, the environment is not cutthroat at all. So do your part and you'll be set!

I'm just curious, do you have kids or something like that that you're worried might impede you from doing well in school? Take care, man. You'll do fine, bro.

 

[agutier3]

A-

Haven't seen you in a while. Glad to know you're still browsing the forums.

logistical99-

I can understand your apprehension and curiosity about what the future has in store. I believe that all the advice you have received thus far are right on. Don't worry about underperforming in dental school. Just do the best that you can, the rest will work itself out. Just relax. Good luck with choosing a school.

 

[groundhog]

There is no objective answer to the question that you ask. You must therefore derive the best answer yourself based upon your circumstances and the subjective opinions that you might receive. My opinion is that people tend to increase their chances for success if they focus on excellence rather than minimal standards. Of course, we might have to make compromises beween those two extremes when life throws us some curves. For example, a married dental student with children might be forced to find a balance between the amount of time that he devotes to his academics versus his family life that is less than optimal in each area.

 

[logistical99]

There's a bit of a misunderstanding here. I was asking my questions STRICTLY based on job/financial security after graduation.

In no way was I asking these questions in the context of having any compromises ( like family life, kids,etc. ) during dental studies.
I don't want to live with a family. But even though I only have myself to feed and clothe, I refuse to accept very little in return for the work I do.

People normally pay for dental services using disposable income. Unlike medicine, dental demands therefore can change easily with the conditions of the economy. People nowadays normally see the dentist for cosmetic or other optional dental services; you no longer have many people coming in because of tooth pain or rotting teeth. I mean, even for myself for instance, I don't even go to the dentist.

This questionable dental demand makes me a bit apprenhensive about what awaits upon those that graduate from dental school. I'm sure that the top seeds will get the jobs/residencies right away but what about the other 100 people in your class that aren't as good? ( this is a valid question because medical schools do not have the same problems. Any doctor can get at least one job upon licensure. )

 

[LestatZinnie]

logistical:

sounding from your current and previous posts you are in dentistry just for the money. you keep wondering how much you'll make, and how it compares with medicine, etc etc. you know what? there is nothing guaranteed in life. there are family doctors in vancouver who are giving away their family practice because they can't sustain it anymore. doctors in general might have slightly better job security than dentists, but your success on securing a job depends mostly on you. i have friends in 4th year, and they all have job offers already. most are part time, but you can still pull in 40-60k canadian dollars, which is equivalent or even more than med residency, and your salary goes even higher when you find a full time associate position or become partner. you say dental caries are no longer a problem? that's the most ridiculous thing i've heard. I volunteer in a clinic every week, and I see cavities, people who dont brush their teeth all the time. go read any professional report, and they always say the demand for dentistry will rise over the years. even if the restorative aspects of dentistry declines, there is always cosmetics and preventive dentistry. given your doubts about dentistry, i think you should just go for medicine (despite your 'health problem'), because i think you are doing yourself, other dental students, and your patients a disservice as you will always think how med is better than dent, despite all the opinions this forum has offered you. i think what you want to hear is that YES, DENTISTS MAKE TONS OF MONEY JUST LIKE DOCTORS!!! AND THEY'RE NEER UNEMPLOYED!!! Well, it's not going to happen to you unless you are really good and passionate about dentistry. the truth of the matter is, things change. being a doctor is no longer equivalent to being millionaire like 10, 20 years ago. Doctors in taiwan (where i'm from), used to make obscene amount of money, but know they're like cheap labor due to universal health care. Who knows what the future will bring? go ask anyone, and they'll tell you that DENTISTRY IS NOT SUBSTITUTE FOR MED. as one of my interviewers told me, if you are going into dentistry for the wrong reasons, i.e. for money or substitute for med, etc., you will end up shooting yourself (sometimes literally). From the tone of your posts, you don't seem to be interested in dentistry at all but are simply pursuing it as substitute for med, which is a big mistake.

 

[maryh320]

Hi Logistical,

As far as seeking employment goes, it really depends on a dentist's skill and how much attention he paid during dental school. I personally know valedictorians who can barely keep his own practice open for 3 yrs and was force to close b/c he's unskillful techniques. It's a profession where if you work for yourself or for someone else, patient's satifaction comes first. If you are someone who has the skills and ability to keep your patients happy and smiling about your service, then you are bound to get a lot of patients. Like all jobs, the higher amt of effort you put in will result in more financial success. WIth happy patients, job security would come along. If you keep on messing up treatments (believe me, there are clumsy dentists out there), you are not gonna be around for too long.

I also disagree about how people don't really goto dentist nowadays. I work in a dental clinic, believe me the most common treatment we do is actually fillings. More and more people see dentists now not just when they have a tootheache or a filling to fill, but also for maintainence, such as getting routine prophyate (cleaning) for oral health. As you mentioned, cosmetic dentistry is also growing, but it just means that more people recognize that besides treatment, dentistry also offers the aesthetic options as well. Same can be said for medicine, more and more ppl are getting plastic surgeries now, but ppl to seek healthcare do not decrease simply because more ppl are seeking for plastic surgeries.

As far as job security goes, instead of worrying if you can find a job afterwards or how the dental school ranking goes, may I suggest that, if you choose to goto a dental school, pay good attention in school and acquire excellent clinical skills. Once you got those down, your excellent skills will get you a job without you having to try too hard to knock on dentist's doors. If you don't have good communication skills, friendly personalities and most importantly excellent clinical skills, it's gonna be a toughie to find an associateship. that pretty much goes along for all jobs out there, gotta get the skills down.

Now we all have offered our own perspectives on dentistry, I hope you found it helpful. Also, I am glad to hear that you are taking very good care of your teeth.

mary

 

[tinker bell]

Logistical, don't worry about having no patients... or ppl not going to dentists any more. For instance, I go to dentist every 3 months (if I'm lucky). I brush, floss, and use all kind of fancy products, still I have problems all the time. And my dentist suggests that I come see her every 3 months, for cleaning, check up, etc... Not that many ppl are as lucky as you are.
I remember when I worked at the dental office, every day we had at least one patient coming in for ER with stupid reasons like breaking the tooth bc eating M&M.....And the day after halloween, ppl flushed into the dental office for ER treatment.

Just concentrate on getting on your license right now. The employment part come later. Once you have your license, there will be plenty of opportunities

 

[logistical99]

guys, I apologize for repeatedly bringing up a thread that some people just don't want to see. But I'm sure there are others here who are just as anxious, and I promise not to ask anymore questions about this topic after this post.

Overall, how are the employment prospects for dental grads compared to grads of law and business schools? And out of these three schools, which grads typically make more money upon graduation?

Last question: Suppose a general dentist has a really stiff personality, doesn't smile, and has no friends, but does all his dental work adequately and has a professional demeanor. Given his personal qualities, does that mean his practice/employment ( in a big city for instance ) is more likely not to be around for long?

 

[Supernumerary]

Suppose a general dentist has a really stiff personality, doesn't smile, and has no friends, but does all his dental work adequately and has a professional demeanor. Given his personal qualities, does that mean his practice/employment ( in a big city for instance ) is more likely not to be around for long?

A pleasant personality is definitely a plus for a dentist, but I suppose a moderately antisocial dentist could compensate for personality flaws by hiring cheerful and friendly staff.

Overall, how are the employment prospects for dental grads compared to grads of law and business schools? And out of these three schools, which grads typically make more money upon graduation?

I think it depends into which business or law program you're accepted. Graduates of top programs have plenty of job offers and make great wages while grads of lesser known schools may have a little trouble even finding employment.

 

[groundhog]

OK logi, let's go bottom fishing since that seems to be your primary focus.

Take four new professionals. Number one is an MD who just barely graduated from med school, and only matched in low a ranked family practice residency. Number two is a DDS who just barely grauduated from dental school and managed to pass his licensing board exam by the skin of his teeth. Number three is a JD who graduated near the bottom of his of his class and just got by on his bar exam. Number four is an MBA who graduated almost dead last and just managed to pass the CPA exam. All four lack people skills and are virtual recluses. They all go into the job market.

The MD is almost assurred of getting a job at an HMO, prison, military etc. for about $75,000.

The DDS is almost assurred of getting a job at an HMO, prison, military etc for about $75,000.

The JD might get lucky and land a job in a public defenders office for about $45,000.

The MBA might have to get in line each morning at the local "Labor Temps." for minimum wage grunt work.

 

[Loudy]

Hi again logistical99,

I would have to agree with others here. Ask yourself, "Why dentistry?" I do congratulate you on getting accepted to a great school but you really don't sound like this is something that you are that sure of.

"I refuse to accept very little in return for the work I do."

Your statement makes little sense considering the little amount of work you want to get through dental school with. You're here asking about getting by with the bare minimums and you're not even a parent. At some point everybody wonders about debtload and finances but come on, man! No offense, but that just sounded plain spoiled.

Man, have you even shadowed a dentist lately? Most people who come in come because of tooth pain and rotting teeth! You say you never go to the dentist and don't have tooth problems. I believe you. I never get sick. Christ, I must have been about eight the last time I visited a physician for being ill. But I consider myself lucky and know that most people aren't like that.

Besides, caries is not the end all of dentistry. There is always preventative, restorative, extractions, emergency accidents, cleanings, oral surgeries, cosmetic, oral cancers, fallen teeth, perio/gum loss, check-ups, problems because of missed check-ups, etc.

And everyone knows that way more dentists are leaving than entering the field. This is a serious issue. The demand really is not "questionable" as you put it . Unemployed dentists are by choice (it's called retiring). You WILL find a job no matter what when you finish school. How much money you'll make will be entirely up to you.

No personality, bottom of his class under-achiever, antisocial dentist? (why'd he become a dentist first ) Anyway, he'll still still get a job. But get this first man... Dentistry is a profession where a little trust will go a LONG way with your patients and your practice. How many return patients or referrals do you think he will get? People are free to choose where they'll go and they usually prefer the more pleasant experience. That's the business side of the career. And if the guy decides he'll only be happy making a boatload of money, he can always move to Fargo or some other country town where he'll be the only dentist anyway. With his attitudes, his practice ain't gonna be the hottest on the block in a place like SF or NY. But the options are always there. Even for him.

Again, good luck in school. And I hope you do find what will best suit you.

 

[tinker bell]

Loudy, you crack me up every time you post. Can't wait to be your classmate in Aug. Hey, let be anatomy lab partner, okay?
Dr. A told me that this is one of the best class he picks in the last few years, and I believe that it's truth.

 

[Loudy]

Peace and love, Tink

 

[logistical99]

wait a min, I don't really understand as to why a dentist needs to have a really good personality. Isn't it enough for him to be courteous and know what he is doing?

I always thought patients would only just come in for a treatment and then leave when they are done. So where/when would the dentist's personality matter?

It was such a long time ago, like when I was about 12, but I remember going to my pediatrician for a bunch of shots. We never said anything to each other ( except for what he was doing )and all I was wanted was to get the treatment over with and leave. Yes, dentists are not pediatricians but I can't imagine the scenario to be any different in terms of doctor/dentist-interaction.

Also, when I shadowed a dentist, we both only talked about what was going on with the patient and what had to be done. I can't comprehend as to what more doctors/dentists need to do.
Am I missing something here?

 

[alexii]

To be a dentist you don't ABSOLUTLY needs to have a really good personality.

Some dentist makes more $$ and some less. Some are happy working long hours and some complaint they work too much. Some dentist looks forward to seen their patients and some can?t wait to get out of their clinic. Some dentist smile and talk to their patients and some don?t.

You can have any type of personality as you like, but I think having a good personality will carry you a long way doesn't matter if you are a dentist or not.

 

[groundhog]

Logi,
You are not missing anything if you value your free will. You were able to ask your questions, you received responses, and you get to make your own decisions.

 

[DATMATT]

The dentist I shadowed said when he started he earned a comission on all work he did. Something like70/30 where he ended up with the 70. So if you plan on working for someone else I would say productivity would be the greatest factor in determing your pay. And yes, personality and looks will help you in nearly every job..... so if you are butt ugly hire some hot hygenists

Matt

 

[Blackstars]

I don't know how looks will affect a dentist. Most people could care less what their dentist looks like as long as he's competent. DATMATT if you think looks is the way to go, you're greatly misinformed brother.
Your skills and not your looks will determine the $$

 

[Supernumerary]

Sadly, I think looks come to play in almost every situation we encounter in life. A tall, good looking dentist is simply going to inspire more confidence and trust in his patients than a short, plump acne-faced guy. (No offense to anyone if this describes you; I'm no Tom Cruise myself ) This will result in higher case acceptance. People don't do this consciously - most would deny that they do - but it has been proven in countless studies that looks matter. Of course other things like personality and reputation come into play, but you certainly can't discount the advantage of being good-looking.

And if you are not grossly incompetent - cutting huge chunks off the teeth, lacerating the gums, amalgams falling out after a week, etc... - patients really have no way of judging your skill. They don't know who has the tightest margins or the best cavity preps; for the most part, people are clueless as to what the dentist is actually doing inside their mouths. They will just assume that the dentist they like the most is also the best clinician.

Doesn't mean ugly, antisocial folks can't be successful dentists; they're just at a little bit of a disadvantage when compared to the friendly, likeable, handsome ones.

 

[logistical99]

crap. You and a majority of other people just confirmed my worst fears.

I should never have missed my chances of heading to med school for that easy chance of becoming a trauma surgeon ( where looks matter 0% and hard work is fairly rewarded 100%).

I guess I'll really be thinking this over.

 

[Percocet]

When I interviewed at Temple, I overheard some of the students say that only beautiful people get Ortho residencies-and since then at every school I have visited, the Ortho residents are all the beautiful/handsome types. Coincidence?


Perc-

 

[DATMATT]

Ah yes, In Utopia looks would not matter. However, I live in the real world, and not of the MTV variety. I am no looker and still plan on running a successful practice, but have talked w/ several dentists. These guys actually name other dentists and immediately give their opinion of the hygenists "looks." A lot of guys will tip their waitress more not if her service is top notch but if she is hot, and better yet, flirts.

If you want to disagree, your optimism is noted. IMHO, looks matter.

Matt

 

[Frank Cavitation]

yeah I agree with the overall flow of this thread; looks and personality definitely matters with regard to the ultimate cash flow. However I have a few concerns:

a) if the whole office and case presentation sounds too smooth and slick, I think the patient might think the office is too commercialized/pushing a sales pitch and get scared off

b) any clue if women patients will get jealous/threatened if the hygienist is too hot?

 

[LateComer]

A dentist with a good look may inspire more confidence over NEW patients but it's the skill and the communication that makes a dentist successful.

If you're working as an associate, most of practices nowaday will try out a new grad or an experienced dentist before making an offer. The more competent and confident you're, the more compensation and commission you may get. If it's your own practice, the more you can do, the more you can make. Suppose you're a GP. If you can do a molar root canal instead of refering out to an endodontist, you will harvest more profits. Even better, if you can do a molar root canal in one hour with one appointment instead of two hours with two appointments. On the other hand, if it takes you too long to prep a crown, you may even have a hard time to land a job as an associate. Additionally, if you're good at communication, you can talk patients to do more major restorative works like bridges and crowns and cosmetics works like veneers, inlays, onlays which cost patients a lot of money. But if you don't have a good skill, forget about it. Sooner or later, patients will come after you for money back.

Believe it or not, the future of dentistry may not be as promising as you may think. If you happen to know what HMO have done to medical, then you may probably know how HMO has been affecting the dentistry. Have you ever observed a dental HMO clinic? Then please do so. You may be surprised to know that a dentist simultaneously has to handle at least three to four chairs. By the end of day, you get exhausted. After 3 years, you may retire early because of carpel syndrome, back pain, or running out of energy. Yes, you may have a choice of neither working for a HMO practice, nor taking HMO insurance if you own your practice. Unfortunately, the reality is not favorable. A lots of companies and individual patients are switching to dental HMO insurance to save cost, especially in this down time of economy. Many dental practices are experiencing the dramatic decline of their PPO and cash patients. HMO is expanding and it may not spare your bright future.

 

[logistical99]

I onced worked for the dental dept. in my undergrad's med center and insurances already had gotten hold of dentists. Believe it or not, some paperwork involving treatment/insurance just has to be handled by the dentists themselves and I recall one instance where they were on the phone and were writing up some papers for 1 full hour before pulling out a patient's tooth in less than 5 min. It was more like have the dentists talk to the patient about some procedures, then talk to the secretaries about their HMOs, make a phone call, then come back to the patient to ask about something else, get back on the phone, tell the secretaries what happened, and then finally go on with the teeth work.

But an HMO-based dentistry will benefit a great majority of dentists ( except for the best ones ) in the sense that they no longer would have to compete for patients and most patients would be more willing to opt for various dental procedures with the aid of their insurance plans. Remember that the typical American household spends less than 2% of their disposable incomes on dental treatment.

Like medicine, the hourly salaries of dentists will drop but dentists will have to work more hours because of an exodus of patients, and the magnitude of this patient flow would be large enough to offset any dips in hourly salaries and could even raise the salaries of dentists in the long run.

AND REMEMBER: People always went to the doctor even before the days of HMOs. With HMOs today, the doctors don't see more patients, and this is at reduced salaries. However, even in the past, people never commonly visit dentists and thus dentists always complain of patient shortages. But with a dental HMO in place, the prospective dental patient pool will substantially increase and this can benefit dentists, whereas doctors were unable to see any gain.

And I have one more quesiton about looks: I understand the importance of appearance but for what are they exactly intended for? Are they for attracting the opposite sex? Would good looks help in attracting people of the same sex? If you're a guy, would you actually even consider going to a hot/sexy/sensitive/cuddly/tall/athletic male dentist? There's just some parts of this that I don't get.

 

[gryffindor]

Originally posted by logistical99
crap. You and a majority of other people just confirmed my worst fears.

I should never have missed my chances of heading to med school for that easy chance of becoming a trauma surgeon ( where looks matter 0% and hard work is fairly rewarded 100%).

I guess I'll really be thinking this over.

You haven't missed your chance. If you already got into med school once, then you obviously have the credentials.

Geez, reapply to med school for the application cycle coming up. No one is forcing you into dentistry and keeping you from being a trauma surgeon. All it would be is one more year of waiting; by the time you were a trauma surgeon, at least you'd be satisfied that you'll be making a somewhat guaranteed income regardless of looks, patient attitudes, staff, etc. You're really setting up yourself for being an unhappy dentist for the rest of your life if you think you'd be better off as a trauma surgeon.

Go to med school. No one is going to judge you that you once considered going to dental school since obviously medicine is all you think about and you already got in before. I've only met one other student in dental school with the same kind of ideas you have in this thread - dentistry is doomed, medicine is more guaranteed, a dental student at the bottom of his class will have no options whatsoever, etc. You know where they are now? Kicked out of dental school because they couldn't maintain the grades to stay in (and they were a graduate of a "prestigious" undergrad as well). All they did was worry about why medicine was better and how dentistry didn't compare.

Otherwise, if you insist on sticking with dentistry, get your facts straight. If you don't believe the other posters on this thread (which are all accurate and very true), get out there are go observe in a few private offices for a day or two and ask those dentists all the questions you have for us. You've really got the wrong idea about this profession and for some reason, you can't seem to accept that dentists are able to succeed.

The only one doomed to not make it in this field is you, if you insist on having such a negative outlook for something you'll be doing for the rest of your life.

 

[LateComer]

Talking of HMO, I am not so sure how HMO may benefit many dentists. In fact, it shifts the profits to the HMO insurance.

To illustrate, employee pay almost the same amount of premium for dental insurance whether they select PPO or HMO dental plans in their companies. However, it makes a huge difference when it comes to dentists or providers. With PPO patients, dentists can collect up to 100% their fees. 50%-100% collection comes from the insurance depending on whether it's a major, basic, or preventive dental treatments. With HMO patients, dentists can NOT collect any fee NEITHER from insurance NOR patients for the diagnosis, preventive treatment, and most of basic procedures including full mouth X-ray, prophy, fillings, extractions, even root canal for incisors and biscuspids. So dentists are paying for their own cost of their chair time, staff overhead, and their works.
Worse, for major treatments such as crowns, bridges, molar root canals, complicated wisdom teeth extractions, dentists can collect ONLY about 20% of their fee from the patients and NONE from the insurance. For instance, the fee of doing a crown is $800. For PPO patients, dentists can collect $400 from insurance and $400 from the patients. For HMO patients, they can collect about $160 from their patients and NONE from the insurance. It takes at least an hour and two appoinments for an experienced dentist from prep to delivery a crown. In addition, the lab fee for a crown would cost a mininum of $50. If you add additional chair time cost and staff overhead for doing a crown, and then do the math. What benefits may HMO bring to many dentists?
The only compensation dentists can receive from HMO insurance is the monthly capitation check which pays about $3-$5 per patient. That means dentists have to agree to take at least 160 HMO patients a month in order to grip the same benefit as doing one single crown for a PPO patient. Most of HMO patients don't show up at the same time. But believe it or not, if you take a list of 500 HMO patients, it will keep you busy for the whole day. If you're running your own practice, you get tired by the day end plus the worry of paying the practice overhead cost.
So, if HMO patients pay similar premium or a little less to dental insurance comparing to PPO patients, then where do the benefits go to if dentists do not receive any actual profits from HMO insurance?

 

[freedyx3]

Originally posted by griffin04


The only one doomed to not make it in this field is you, if you insist on having such a negative outlook for something you'll be doing for the rest of your life.

WELL PUT, I think that message rings true for any career. Think positive and you will achieve success!

 

[Supernumerary]

And I have one more quesiton about looks: I understand the importance of appearance but for what are they exactly intended for? Are they for attracting the opposite sex? Would good looks help in attracting people of the same sex? If you're a guy, would you actually even consider going to a hot/sexy/sensitive/cuddly/tall/athletic male dentist? There's just some parts of this that I don't get.

Oh definitely, those are all attributes I require in a dentist. I'm totally looking for Tom Cruise, DDS.

No, This isn't a sexual thing; it's just something that people do unconsciously. We tend to assign positive attributes to good-looking people - that's all. I'm not saying it's a good or fair or right; it just happens to be the way things are.

Anyway, I'm sure you're much better looking than you think; very few people can look in the mirror and see himself the way other people see him.

 

[groundhog]

There are some who suggest that physical appearance turn ons and turn offs are programmed in our genes. Our perception of physical attractiveness may be due to subtle visual clues which indicate to us the best mating prospects for insuring that our personal genetic code is passed on to a next generation.