England - Game Thread

[alissa14]

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Me thinks I’m gonna

yeet sunny

while I read her outburst a few days ago as seeming like a frustrated villager, I see everyone’s concern for sunny.

 

[alissa14]

I also would LOVE to know why people are voting me?! I’m sorry I didn’t feel like engrossing myself in a ww game and doing page by page analysis. I’m still trying to find a balance between ww and life.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I also would LOVE to know why people are voting me?! I’m sorry I didn’t feel like engrossing myself in a ww game and doing page by page analysis. I’m still trying to find a balance between ww and life.

Your defense of mkg makes me uncomfortable.

 

[Crayola227]

All right guys here's some excitement

Bond Girls One and Two, I always have a girl under each arm. I call them DuoPussy.

Spoiler

 

[Crayola227]

I am Jame Bond, I am a village anytime of cycle but with a one cycle cool down 3 shot vigilante.

I did read an article on MafiaScum about how to use my role, so I'm trying here.

First time I could use it, was D1 but I couldn't get on till later and I wanted to see what people would say/do first. I tried to shoot Genny N1 and the bullet missed.

I selected her because I had feels and she said in the thread how she wanted a vigilante to kill some people, so I thought maybe that was wolfy, and she tends to be a quieter harder to read player. I thought her flip might give me data on some other players, like the ones she said could be shot (AM, Finn) and on Zenge who I was sussing and she was too.

Now I wonder if her plan was to draw vig fire like that knowing she would be jailed and protected. But that means she was either already plotting with the jailer by PM, she is the jailer and can self-jail, or she's plotting by pack chat. Overall I've read her village since I tried to shoot her, ironic I know. But I don't know.

I had plans for the next bullets to do them midday so it would be more obvious they were village vig shots.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to get on until late, but there was still plenty of time left in the day cycle.

I was trying really hard to see what people saw in Zenge being village. I almost killed him after he called my play lazy, but I desisted because I wanted to be sure I wasn't being retaliatory. He apologized and I put him to the side. The issue was that then LIS and genny (I'm village reading genny) pointed out how twisty he was being about making a case on Sunny.

So despite my wanting to follow everyone's village read on Zenge, he was continuing to act in a way making that impossible for me. As to what Mayo means by Zenge was vomiting his village meta, I have no idea what that actually means, because it looked to me like his wolf meta. But to be fair I have never seen him wolf from a village perspective. Another reason for me not loving Mayo, even if he did end up being right on Zenge.

If Zenge doesn't want to be shot by the village vig in the future he needs to try to sound less like a scummy lawyer twisting a case on a someone.

The situation with mkg made me think I should shoot someone in the mkg/Sunny/Zenge triad or something. Problem is I wasn't wolf reading mkg or Sunny.

One strategy for vig use is to kill your top wolf read especially if it's a player being village read and not likely to ever get yeeted. So I used that strategy knowing people could probably properly interpret how to use the info from Zenge's flip to solve the rest of the triad involved, so I didn't see downside to shooting Zenge if I was wrong there (besides loss of a village PR but that risk is true no matter who you shoot).

So I was honoring the use of village vig to flip a player early enough in cycle to be useful for discussion, but not so early stands hadn't been made, and not too late for people to figure things out. And the use of vig for a top wolf read, a wolf read that would not get yeeted. Sunny and mkg were looking like inevitabilities especially thereafter.

I figured if I was wrong it would help people decide about mkg or Sunny, and no one was going to go about flipping Zenge.

You can disagree with my reads and my choices all you like.

So I didn't claim before because I still had a bullet left.

What happened yesterday was that I thought I could use my ability again, but Pip said it had to be the same time for the cool down (11:11 pm) and she was in bed and not gonna process a shot at that hour.

I have now put in an action to shoot another player. I have submitted it, so I'm less concerned with order of operations a wolf vig killing me for this reveal before my shot takes effect. Which is whenever Pip does the write up.

I put in a shot on one of the 3 top wagons today, the one I find wolfiest and has people on it that I want the flip for info on as well. And this person is claiming to have some difficulty keeping up so if I'm wrong maybe it's a kindness.

I thought better about sheeping genny's reads overall though.

Please don't quote pic

 

[Crayola227]

Vigilante

wiki.mafiascum.net

 

[PippyPony]

"For England, James?" said Trevelyn

"No. For me."

Dead is

Spoiler: alissa14

ANNE BOLEYN

It is still...somehow...Day 4.​

LONDON

@samac​

@holdthemayo​

@alleycat03​

@LetItSnow​

@Ms Procrastinator​

@WildZoo​

​

YORKSHIRE & THE NORTH

@Animal Midwife​

@finnickthedog​

​

OXFORD & CAMBRIDGE

@DocEspana​

@Stagg737​

​

CORNWALL

@capri1722​

@Barkley13​

@Dinashadow​

@genny​

​

PARTS UNKNOWN

@SportPonies​

@Cyndia​

@Crayola227​

@sunshinefl​

AVALON

@Aprilthearab - Robin Hood, item thief​

@SARdoghandler - Lilibet ​

@TelemarketingEnigma - Margaret Thatcher, 2x executioner​

@vetmedhead - William Shakespeare, write up modifier​

@Viscernable - Sir Isaac Newton, physical action redirector​

@Zenge142 - Alan Turing, cryptanalyst​

@mkg323 - Jack the Ripper, ninja ladyseer wolf​

@BobLoblaw78 - Queen Victoria​

@The_Breadmann - Winston Churchill, heavy vote​

@alissa14 - Anne Boleyn​

​

IT IS STILL DAY FOUR. ​

18 PLAYERS REMAIN.​

VOTING WILL CLOSE AT 9PM TOMORROW NIGHT.​

 

[Animal Midwife]

I cannot believe you shot Zenge.

 

[Crayola227]

I cannot believe you shot Zenge.

Believe it.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Yeet sunshine

 

[samac]

WHY IN THE **** DID YOU SHOOT ALISSA, ANOTHER ****ING VILLAGER, WHEN YOU COULD HAVE SHUT MY ASS UP ABOUT FINN.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Believe it.

Why did you choose alissa over sunshine or finn?

 

[samac]

Your argument about Zenge doesn’t even work for Alissa because there’s votes there like what in the actual ****

 

[samac]

Alright, an interesting point on that is Alissa claimed she had a 1x death avoidance. Did someone already try and kill her or was it just a night kill avoidance or what?

 

[samac]

That was the absolute worst choice on the board, she hadn’t even said anything other than I’m busy in response to the votes yet and you pick her to kill?
If pippy didn’t put a direct bond quote in the write up I would swear you were a wolf jumping on MKG’s James Bond theory. I don’t see how you’re a villager, maybe 3rd party, but if you are village you have some ****ty aim.

 

[Crayola227]

Day 4 - The Black Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (3) - Mayo, samac, alley
Sunshine (3) - Dubz, barks, dina
Alissa (3) - AM, stagg, sporty
Dubz (1) - genny
Mayo (1) - cray
Crayola (1) - DocE

@finnickthedog @sunshinefl @alissa14 it's a three-way
12/19 players voting
voting closes in ~22 hours

I had more sus for alissa than sunny or finn based on posts.

Also looking at who is on whose wagon, feel more comfortable with those on alissa compared to finn and sunny. Also want more info on those players too (AM, Sporty, Stagg).

I considered taking a vote for who to kill, but that's basically already what's happening rn in thread anyway. By that logic alissa is winning, and I found Am's point on alissa compelling.

Now, before you point out that I also had a bad read on mkg so why did I shoot someone with one, from my perspective I know exactly why my read was bad, I'm a villager with a bad read. But I don't know that's true for anyone else. This is a case where "hypocrisy" isn't always a sign of wolf, and it makes complete sense for a village player to apply a different standard for others. Now that might not be compelling for others looking at me and my affiliation, but whatevs. I'm less worried about my own optics.

 

[genny]

but if you are village you have some ****ty aim.

i believe it that she's village with those choices. I feel like a wolf would have at least shot another wolf for some cred. Or done all the kills at night to make us worry about 2 packs. Or at least tried to shoot more villagery villagers, or PR-ish villagers.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I just don't remember you ever talking about alissa outside of your giant POE at the beginning of D2.

 

[WildZoo]

I have no words

 

[genny]

I just don't remember you ever talking about alissa outside of your giant POE at the beginning of D2.

i don't understand why you're bothered by it. you were voting alissa.

 

[WildZoo]

I had more sus for alissa than sunny or finn based on posts.

Also looking at who is on whose wagon, feel more comfortable with those on alissa compared to finn and sunny. Also want more info on those players too (AM, Sporty, Stagg).

I considered taking a vote for who to kill, but that's basically already what's happening rn in thread anyway. By that logic alissa is winning, and I found Am's point on alissa compelling.

Now, before you point out that I also had a bad read on mkg so why did I shoot someone with one, from my perspective I know exactly why my read was bad, I'm a villager with a bad read. But I don't know that's true for anyone else. This is a case where "hypocrisy" isn't always a sign of wolf, and it makes complete sense for a village player to apply a different standard for others. Now that might not be compelling for others looking at me and my affiliation, but whatevs. I'm less worried about my own optics.

How is alissa winning by that logic when it was tied

 

[Animal Midwife]

i believe it that she's village with those choices. I feel like a wolf would have at least shot another wolf for some cred. Or done all the kills at night to make us worry about 2 packs. Or at least tried to shoot more villagery villagers, or PR-ish villagers.

What do you mean by the bolded? Zenge had a PR and samac is saying alissa also had PR.

 

[Animal Midwife]

i don't understand why you're bothered by it. you were voting alissa.

Because I like to have an opportunity to talk to people sometimes, genny.

 

[WildZoo]

i believe it that she's village with those choices. I feel like a wolf would have at least shot another wolf for some cred. Or done all the kills at night to make us worry about 2 packs. Or at least tried to shoot more villagery villagers, or PR-ish villagers.

This is the biggest pile of WIFOM I have ever seen in my life

 

[finnickthedog]

WHY IN THE **** DID YOU SHOOT ALISSA, ANOTHER ****ING VILLAGER, WHEN YOU COULD HAVE SHUT MY ASS UP ABOUT FINN.

How many villagers are you willing to trade for "shutting your ass up"? Two or three?

This next part is not to you specifically.

I'm on my externship now and with sdn's long crash I am very much dragging through this game now. Fun times. Probably will not get to be on again until afternoon/evening tomorrow.

 

[WildZoo]

I am too annoyed to deal with this tonight, I think

 

[genny]

What do you mean by the bolded? Zenge had a PR and samac is saying alissa also had PR.

Villagers who came across as having a PR - which I personally don't think Zenge telegraphed anything about having a PR. And I certainly wouldn't have guessed Alissa had one.

 

[finnickthedog]

Oh also while I question Cray's choices, I am convinced she is village.

 

[genny]

This is the biggest pile of WIFOM I have ever seen in my life

i can make it bigger!

you are welcome to disregard it completely.

 

[DocEspana]

I have no words

Even if she is a villager, I think my decision to vote crayola will go down as "a timely move"

 

[Crayola227]

How is alissa winning by that logic when it was tied

I thought AM or someone came on and added another alissa vote. I guess I broke the tie in favor of alissa.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I thought AM or someone came on and added another alissa vote. I guess I broke the tie in favor of alissa.

No, alissa herself vote for sunshine.

 

[Cyndia]

Huh. I mean I somewhat understand your flow of reasoning although I don't agree with the choices you made at all. I do think you laying this all out is giving you village points.

 

[genny]

Because I like to have an opportunity to talk to people sometimes, genny.

Can I also say that I get weirded out when you use my name because you do that more often as a wolf?

 

[Crayola227]

Because I like to have an opportunity to talk to people sometimes, genny.

I guess no one got my hint last night that it was time to get serious about who you wanted dead.

I was initially going to have DocE and genny vote on my final shot and shoot there (besides myself) but thought better of it.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Can I also say that I get weirded out when you use my name because you do that more often as a wolf?

That's false. I just use names where I feel emphasis is needed.

 

[genny]

That's false. I just use names where I feel emphasis is needed.

AM AM AM AM AM
we all know it's true.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I guess no one got my hint last night that it was time to get serious about who you wanted dead.

I was initially going to have DocE and genny vote on my final shot and shoot there (besides myself) but thought better of it.

I feel like the entire group could have discussed it if it was a shots vote you wanted to have, but it's all moot now.

 

[Animal Midwife]

AM AM AM AM AM
we all know it's true.

It shows that you never ISO me.

 

[genny]

I guess no one got my hint last night that it was time to get serious about who you wanted dead.

I was initially going to have DocE and genny vote on my final shot and shoot there (besides myself) but thought better of it.

Alissa would not have been my first choice. Or my second. Or the third, probably.

 

[genny]

It shows that you never ISO me.

You post too much and I get tired. I'd rather rely on my dodgy memory.

 

[PippyPony]

dodgy

~~~~~
english. nice.
~~~~~

 

[Crayola227]

I just don't remember you ever talking about alissa outside of your giant POE at the beginning of D2.

She was never in my village reads. But I decided the villagey thing to do with my last shot, especially given how bad the Zenge thing went, was let village decide the candidates. My Zenge shot was also trying to help us decide amongst vote candidates in its own way even though he wasn't leading, I thought the info would help us decide and it sounds like it did.

I wasn't willing to sacrifice you or Finn for samac's theory. She's been vague why she's convinced a mod would have told her exactly what group a wolf was in. Maybe she can't paraphrase well enough to convince me and she can't say what she was told exactly. I don't find that a compelling theory. I've correctly wolf read Finn at least once years ago.

I wasn't sure Sunny would ever forgive being vig shot in a game ever again. Maybe that shouldn't be a consideration, but again I find it hard to shoot anyone I'm not personally reading as wolfiest.

Those were my feelings and it all led to me deciding Alissa.

And Alissa doesn't have a PR we can tell, although we don't know the significance of the royalty class.

 

[samac]

How is alissa winning by that logic when it was tied

It wasn’t even tied at the time. Sunny was winning.

How many villagers are you willing to trade for "shutting your ass up"? Two or three?

This next part is not to you specifically.

I'm on my externship now and with sdn's long crash I am very much dragging through this game now. Fun times. Probably will not get to be on again until afternoon/evening tomorrow.

The answer would be two, if you’re village I traded in April, admittedly. I just think you’re wolf. And I would have traded in you instead of Alissa if cray had shot you instead.

I’m just extremely frustrated. I had Alissa as a village read. She knew my role. i believed her because I know someone else who claimed a Royal and had 1x death proof. I know they’re not in communication
The question is wtf is the 1x death proof IF THEYRE ALL DYING

 

[Crayola227]

No, alissa herself vote for sunshine.

That looked possibly opportunistic. As I said, I thought a flip of any of the 3 would be elucidative and so I used my own reasoning to pick between the 3.

You were a factor in voting her as well.

I considered waiting until tomorrow for more votes to be on the board, but there's no telling the one hour before EOD wafflefest so I didn't hold out for more votes.

 

[Cyndia]

Okay well I have a bunch of random things I put in multiquote during my readthrough and some iso jump arounds so let's see if I remember everything I wanted to say..

This is what I have so far. There are still so many people left it’s overwhelming to follow all the interactions.


Village leans

-Cray- usual sharp tongued / sus everyone self

-AM-usual pushy self, called out weird samac post

-Genny- usual jokey self

-Cyndia-agreeing with posts

-Bob law- seems sincere about not being in PMs, trying to hunt but noob

-Ms P- was reading her village but slightly unsure about the whole bob law PM thing





Neutral

-Shorty-Did seem off but made 1 typical full shorty analysis post

-Samac-weird rojo?, over the top oh no reaction to April

-Sporty- mostly absent but not unusual

-Doc E- was leaning village and no resistance to yeet, tied, but april wagon could have been pushed to save him though

-Finnick- passionate argument for good village play, quiet now





Wolf

-Zenge-Not much besides weird theme posts of nothing, Defending shorty, not as active as normal

-Viscernable- weird last minute unexplained vote on April

-MKG- seems flippant

-Bread- almost completely absent and not making jokes and puns, sheeped samac into April vote

This was an earlier reads list of sunshine I pulled that I just made note of because of mkg being on the wolf list. All of the other 3 other wolf suspicions are flipped villagers at this point though.

So the only other people that had more than one vote were:
AM (3) - alissa, TME, SAR
Alissa (2) - finn, capri
Zenge (3) - genny, sunshine, cray
sunshine (3) - LIS, VMH, Barks

Some things that stand out to me about each:
AM - kinda reading village based on tone/questions, but some things have pinged me: she has led a yeet against Alissa D2 in every game I've played with her which is kinda weird, & had back and forth with Alissa but left her vote on Stagg, before placing a contingency yeet on Alissa for D2
Alissa - full disclosure, I get her mixed up with Alley, but from doing a quick iso and skimming I feel ok about her right now, pretty much neutral
Zenge - I dont think he's acting very similar to when he was a wolf in bioshock, but I wouldnt say this is normal village zenge either. I dont really trust my own reads after getting pocketed last time, but right now he's on the lower end of the neutral pile, closer to wolf lean
Sunny - I have her tentatively in village leans, I think her frustration was genuine, and her content posts have added to the discussion well

I pulled this up because alissa and sunny were mentioned in mkgs list. Alissa is a moot point now, but interesting that mkg had sunshine village leaning.

I'm going to try this

Unyeet alissa
Yeet mkg

I can't remember why I originally quoted this and where in the game it came from (I think because it was another one that just had two names of interest on there). But I like it more seeing the alissa flip.

I just remembered I'm driving to my next externship tomorrow. So I guess I should actually be present a little bit today since I'll be out a good chunk of tomorrow. Though really, not sure what else to say since everything I have said has been conveniently ignored anyways. Seems early for role revealing. And really not happy that I'm only left with one PM option in my group (which is weird coming from me). I had opened a PM with MsP but that's gone now.

Though honestly, part of me just wants to peace out and let you all vote me. I'm so tired of this game. End game fatigue has already hit me and we're on what, Day 3 or 4? With 74 whole pages to flip through. I don't know how you people do this. It's exhausting. I'm hanging in there because I know it irks me as a mod when players don't play, but I don't know. I don't have the energy for some passionate defense. Especially when people aren't even listening to it anyways. I feel like people do a lot of talking about me (with very little substance) but not much talking to me.

At any rate,
mkg's flip made me feel worse about...

Barks because the timing right after Z's death felt like it could have been a bus. I know AM wants to clear everyone on the D2 wagon... I both have no idea whether Barks was on that wagon nor do I put much stock in AMs opinion anyways.

sunny due to reasons already stated and I don't feel warrant repeating

alissa who seemed to be trying to feel out whether flipping the vote to cyndia was viable near close

It made me feel better about capri because I still have the feeling like she had something to do with the shot (and I wish someone would ya know, at least tell me if they see what I see or think it's ridiculous) and since I don't think the shot was wolfy now it follows that if capri was involved with the shot, I don't think she's a wolf.

What are your thoughts on capri now? And why did you initially think the shot wasn't wolfy?

I've got feelz for Dubz and want pressure there. I know that last post said I side eyed you for something, but in general I read you village.

I'm also not sure about the Finn and Sunshine wagons and would like an alternate.

I had quoted this earlier because I wanted to know why you weren't sure about finn/sunshine? Although this is consistent with the vig choice you just picked.

No feelings allowed in WW. Just feelz.



This has neither been confirmed, nor should it give AM any kind of cred regardless of vig affiliation. However, I agree that Finn is looking more and more like a solid vote.



What? None of this is true



Actually, Finn's logic and analysis are the closest to correct I've seen. Mayo's analysis makes no sense at all unless he's assuming the wolves are complete idiots. I may very well drop a vote on Finn though, as there's enough other things implicating her and she's experienced enough to maaaaaybe (biiiiiig maybe here) to pull a wolf vig then point out how bad of a move it would be.



Too many assumptions here. Wolves would have to know that someone actually gained seer info on them (not confirmed), they'd need to know that Zenge is the one receiving that information (not known), and they'd have to be willing to use the vig on Zenge knowing that MKG has been a huge candidate to go down 2 days in a row.

IF Samac is village, then it's not completely unreasonable to hope she'd come back to defend or soft-clear MKG. But Apparently Dubz already shared that the role was essentially NAI (which oh look, it was made up/a cover anyway), so a pretty soft thing to rely on. Zenge flipping village can only be seen as NAI or shady, there's no situation I can think of where using a vig on Zenge could give MKG or Bread village cred. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

If it was a wolf vig, it would have been dumb to use the vig at that point instead of waiting until closer to day-close with the hope that they could push votes off of MKG. Even if it looks like MKG is going down, they could just use the vig on Zenge later or even try and NK him and save the vig for later (riskier IF they knew Zenge got seer info, again a big IF). Only was this was good timing if Bread is also a wolf to try and get some attention off of him, but with how things shook out I'm not convinced of that and probably a bit less comfortable with having Bread in the wolf pile. Need to go back and look at a vote tracker to be sure though. In which case they may have tried to save a wolf and prevent 2 from going down.

In addition to all of this, if the write-up for the vig kill holds any relevant meaning, it's strongly suggestive that the vig was a villager and that they were somehow passed incorrect information which led to the kill. Less likely but still possible, vig could have been a villager suspicious of both Zenge and MKG with greater suspicion of Zenge trying to narrow their POE. That's a stretch though and not something I'm particularly inclined to chase. There's also the solid possibility that vig was 3P.

Regardless, until the vig flips this is all speculation and not a rabbithole I'm going to go further down at this point.

So.. what are your thoughts now that there is a vig claim?

DocE wouldn't know this, but others, maybe @Cyndia or @alleycat03 can vouch that when I wolf I'm rarely caught because I sheeped someone and came out of nowhere on a vote.

I gave alley a mini lecture on how easy it is to just sus people openly loudly and early to make switches seemless, and to vote early and not do weird things with your vote.

It's all WIFOM, but this is pretty far outside my wolf meta.

Also I was doing my read through and saw this - I can vouch that this is roughly what I remember her saying in wolf chat last game to alley.

 

[samac]

She was never in my village reads. But I decided the villagey thing to do with my last shot, especially given how bad the Zenge thing went, was let village decide the candidates. My Zenge shot was also trying to help us decide amongst vote candidates in its own way even though he wasn't leading, I thought the info would help us decide and it sounds like it did.

I wasn't willing to sacrifice you or Finn for samac's theory. She's been vague why she's convinced a mod would have told her exactly what group a wolf was in. Maybe she can't paraphrase well enough to convince me and she can't say what she was told exactly. I don't find that a compelling theory. I've correctly wolf read Finn at least once years ago.

I wasn't sure Sunny would ever forgive being vig shot in a game ever again. Maybe that shouldn't be a consideration, but again I find it hard to shoot anyone I'm not personally reading as wolfiest.

Those were my feelings and it all led to me deciding Alissa.

And Alissa doesn't have a PR we can tell, although we don't know the significance of the royalty class.

God dammit I’ve not being vague about anything and have explained exactly why the damn sheriff of Nottingham would be in the north. The only thing I got from pippy was that it was likely in the game, and SAR confirmed that for me.

other than royals every single commoner flip we’ve had makes sense to location.

 

[PippyPony]

Day 4 - The Black Server Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (3) - Mayo, samac, alley
Sunshine (5) - Dubz, barks, dina, LIS, AM
Dubz (1) - genny
Mayo (1) - cray
Crayola (1) - DocE

SDN (1) - Ms P

@sunshinefl you are in the lead
11/18 players voting
voting closes in ~23 hours

 

[Cyndia]

So I'm fine with either finn/sunshine at this point. Going to start with

yeet finn

 

[finnickthedog]

It wasn’t even tied at the time. Sunny was winning.

The answer would be two, if you’re village I traded in April, admittedly. I just think you’re wolf. And I would have traded in you instead of Alissa if cray had shot her instead.

I’m just extremely frustrated. I had Alissa as a village read. She knew my role. i believed her because I know someone else who claimed a Royal and had 1x death proof. I know they’re not in communication
The question is wtf is the 1x death proof IF THEYRE ALL DYING

I guess if you're counting April then my question should have been three or four.

What are your thoughts on capri now? And why did you initially think the shot wasn't wolfy?

It's not that I initially thought the shot wasn't wolfy... it's that I though mkg could be a wolf or the shot could be wolfy but not both. Since mkg flipped wolf, I didn't feel the shot could be wolfy.

Now that cray has claimed the shot, none of this is relevant to capri anyways. So I guess I need to reevaluate my thoughts on her.