Everyone Happy?

[Noyac]

I've tried to participate in this forum for a couple weeks now and I gotta say that this is the lowest point this forum has ever seen. People are asking for stories to be posted, no offense to the OP but the latest post was asking for airway stories.

This is the most boring time this forum has ever seen.

Nice work Mods!

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[btbam]

Sorry for trying to generate a potentially interesting discussion, what exactly have you been contributing? Feel free to blow your load in the Martin thread along with everyone else.

 

[Noyac]

Sorry for trying to generate a potentially interesting discussion, what exactly have you been contributing? Feel free to blow your load in the Martin thread along with everyone else.

Typical!

I tried to give an example. I also tried to do it without offending you by not naming you and stating "no offense". How else do you suggest I make the point?

People are way too sensitive here these days.

 

[btbam]

Typical!

I tried to give an example. I also tried to do it without offending you by not naming you and stating "no offense". How else do you suggest I make the point?

People are way too sensitive here these days.

I don't give a **** if you don't like my thread. Don't contribute, but why waste the time making *another* thread to bemoan the lack of interesting topics on here.

 

[Noyac]

I currently count 18 posts before I reach anything clinically oriented, mine included.

 

[DreamMachine]

.

 

[doctor712]

Noy,

I agree with you 100%. This is very familiar to me. I post something that isn't PC or simply make a point that isn't relating to a certain poster, and then BAM, 18 people jump out of the woodwork and go bananas and start in with the name calling, the insults, or WORSE, the passive aggressively mean spirited drive-by comments in order to suck you into a flame war. I will admit that once I'm in, I am the worst offender of replying in kind, however, 80% of the time, I have taken stray bullets.

Such in the inter web.

JPP was given an infraction. Then a temp hold. I was given an infraction (big surprise, right everyone?). And I see SOOO many rude and discourteous posts day after day here that come from the same people. Shame. I think people just look for the easy target to lay off their daily steam. I'm an easy target. Success in another arena, then coming into medicine later in life...let's load up the ammo.

This forum has its moments, but this isn't one of them. It will pass. Hopefully. Kudos to you for bringing up this topic. I used to pop onto this forum to learn something basic, was given a lot of support by the elders. And I mean ALOT. Would regularly ask questions that would garner more support and kind PMs. Much of that camaraderie seems missing here. Having said that, some Docs here have gone out of their way to explain something physiology or biochemistry related to me through PM, I always thank them profusely. THOSE are the docs I'd want training me. :thumb up: And training and SUPPORT is what this forum is about and seems lacking lately.

I wonder why...

D712

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Say what you will, I don't think "boring" is the right adjective for the past couple weeks. I would say that the forum does seem to be somewhat antagonistic lately.

I don't think you can really point to the preponderance of non-clinical threads as a cause, though; this forum has always been like that.

We have two competing forces at play: 1) our own inherent egos as physicians/future physicians, and B) our camraderie over shared interests/experiences. We just need to shift the balance towards the latter rather than the former.

 

[Noyac]

Say what you will, I don't think "boring" is the right adjective for the past couple weeks. I would say that the forum does seem to be somewhat antagonistic lately.

I don't think you can really point to the preponderance of non-clinical threads as a cause, though; this forum has always been like that.

We have two competing forces at play: 1) our own inherent egos as physicians/future physicians, and B) our camraderie over shared interests/experiences. We just need to shift the balance towards the latter rather than the former.

I agree with you for the most part. One problem I have is that just about every topic in anesthesia has been touched on here and I participated in most of them so my POV and stories are all old news. I don't particate as much because I assume people don't want to hear my stories over again. But the new folks need these clinical threads to guide them thru their trials and tribulations but instead all they are getting is threads about watches, cars, matching, politics, etc. I know these are topics that are just as important but what I'm saying is that we need more clinical posts. Unfortunately, one of the most prolific posters on this site has been slapped by someone who got their feelings hurt ( I'm not speaking about anyone in particular) and the mods either are being prssured to react or they are naive. They haven't made any effort to improve the situation as far as I can tell since there is no discussion.

Jet posted on a topic that is not discussed, finances. Jet gives the reader something to think about. He is flamboyant and occasionally disruptive but the message is what is important and instead of openly discussing the topic so that future docs can become educated, the mods freeze his account. If they are afraid that it will chase docs from the lower paying fields then discuss it, don't stick your heads in the sand. People should be allowed to make their own decisions but only after they have all the information. Instead they are being doopt while Jet is being censored. This site is for the education of the "student doctor". Censoring it the biggest disservice these mods can achieve.

But instead of explaining the issues involved and openly discussing the situation they remain silent and so does Jet. Poor form in my opinion.

 

[Gern Blansten]

No word on when his account is coming off of "hold?"
I hope he returns. I don't always agree with him, but I enjoy hearing his opinion (most of the time).
I vote for his return Easter morning.

 

[jwk]

I don't give a **** if you don't like my thread. Don't contribute, but why waste the time making *another* thread to bemoan the lack of interesting topics on here.

Let's see - btbam - newly minted AA with a major attitude problem and 125 posts, and

Noyac - been around seemingly forever and 4,000+ posts.

Hmmmmmmm. Guess whose posts I want to read?

 

[stationroad]

I agree with you for the most part. One problem I have is that just about every topic in anesthesia has been touched on here and I participated in most of them so my POV and stories are all old news. I don't particate as much because I assume people don't want to hear my stories over again. But the new folks need these clinical threads to guide them thru their trials and tribulations but instead all they are getting is threads about watches, cars, matching, politics, etc. I know these are topics that are just as important but what I'm saying is that we need more clinical posts. Unfortunately, one of the most prolific posters on this site has been slapped by someone who got their feelings hurt ( I'm not speaking about anyone in particular) and the mods either are being prssured to react or they are naive. They haven't made any effort to improve the situation as far as I can tell since there is no discussion.

Jet posted on a topic that is not discussed, finances. Jet gives the reader something to think about. He is flamboyant and occasionally disruptive but the message is what is important and instead of openly discussing the topic so that future docs can become educated, the mods freeze his account. If they are afraid that it will chase docs from the lower paying fields then discuss it, don't stick your heads in the sand. People should be allowed to make their own decisions but only after they have all the information. Instead they are being doopt while Jet is being censored. This site is for the education of the "student doctor". Censoring it the biggest disservice these mods can achieve.

But instead of explaining the issues involved and openly discussing the situation they remain silent and so does Jet. Poor form in my opinion.

Many people have been banned for a lot less than what jetproppilot does. He frequently curses, his attitude is that he knows it "ALL", and everyone else is clueless. Guess what, Anesthesia aint that hard, its easy; doesnt require bold face large type to make a point that taking a lma out deep is safer than waiting til the patient wakes up. And he is picking on BLADE MDA who actually has a much deeper understanding than he does about all things anesthesia really. SO i dont feel bad for jet. I hope he never comes back. I hope he finds another forum to post. If you wanna ban me. go ahead ban me mods. Thats what you do best. LOL. Ban away.

And i dont care if he drives a MONSTA truck and he is ROKKSTARRR where he works and he blares Rage against the machine while his girlfriend is sleepin.. He aint that cool..

 

[pgg]

I agree with you for the most part. One problem I have is that just about every topic in anesthesia has been touched on here and I participated in most of them so my POV and stories are all old news. I don't particate as much because I assume people don't want to hear my stories over again. But the new folks need these clinical threads to guide them thru their trials and tribulations but instead all they are getting is threads about watches, cars, matching, politics, etc. I know these are topics that are just as important but what I'm saying is that we need more clinical posts.

There are a number of factors at work here.

You identify one of them - maybe many old time users don't want to repost and repost the same old cases and stories. Or their interest has shifted and instead of common B&B cases they want to discuss really unusual or esoteric subjects (which is great).

But that leaves newer/u] users to post their experiences, and the things that are new to them, and ask questions about topics that may be boring to the old timers - and this is fine, too. Unfortunately, the trend of late - and you'd have to be willfully blind to have missed it - is that more than a few of those new users posted clinical threads and get shouted at, or insulted, or have their motives or phsyician-vs-CRNA credentials challenged. And although I know your opinion is that the problem there is "thin skin" the fact is that a LOT of these new users have been dissuaded from returning or posting because of the reception they got.


Another reason is simply the time of year. It's March, so the last couple months there have been a lot of threads about the match, and programs, and related issues. There aren't any brand new CA1s looking for feedback or reality checks. There aren't any new attendings posting about their new jobs, new practice enviroments. Next month you can expect more oral board threads than usual.


Another reason that clinical cases may be fewer over the last year or two is the private forum. One of the unintended consequences of creating it was that some people feel more comfortable discussing clinical topics there, some out of a desire to not accidentally educate CRNAs, and maybe some because that forum tends to be more civil with fewer off topic threads (for better or worse). My personal preference (and I've posted this a number of times) is that clinical threads belong here in the public forum. But the fact is that some clinical content is diluted and diverted to the private forum.

Unfortunately, one of the most prolific posters on this site has been slapped by someone who got their feelings hurt ( I'm not speaking about anyone in particular) and the mods either are being prssured to react or they are naive. They haven't made any effort to improve the situation as far as I can tell since there is no discussion.

I don't know if you're being deliberately disingenuous here or not. In your other call-out thread on this topic (which, interestingly, was not locked by a moderator) I posted a very specific and unequivocal reply to questions regarding why the moderating staff had not offered up explanations or any discussion. But I'll post it again:

SDN's policy and basic politeness prohibit us from publicly commenting on specific acts of moderation. This is not a new policy or an attempt to dodge discussion - it truly, genuinely is an expression of respect for all involved. Short of actual bans, any individual user who is the subject of moderation is absolutely free to discuss as much or as little of the events as they choose. (In the case of post-holds, which are temporary, the available medium is PM.)

This is especially irritating coming from you, a former moderator, because you know this - or you should, anyway.

But instead of explaining the issues involved and openly discussing the situation they remain silent and so does Jet. Poor form in my opinion.

You know exactly why we refrain from comment.

You're free to contact Jet directly via any means you like, including PM (though I think someone recently posted that his PM inbox is full). In your last thread griping about the issue (did I mention it wasn't a moderator who locked it?), doctor712 said he had spoken to Jet since the post-hold went into effect. He is free to discuss anything he chooses. Or not, if he doesn't feel like it. He doesn't owe you, the forum, or the moderators any explanation or comment. The only thing he owes any of us is the same thing ALL of us owe - and that is simply to generally abide by SDN's site-wide terms of service and conduct rules. This isn't 4chan.


The bottom line is that outside of the lounge, this forum is by far the least moderated and "censored" forum on SDN. I think there has been one longtime user banned in the last two years since I became a moderator, and just take my word for it when I tell you it was a long, long time coming with multiple warnings, PMs, gentle public in-thread nudgings, a post-hold, and plenty of discussion amongst a dozen+ moderators and admins before he was ultimately banned. And even now, I'm only about 90% sure that banning him was the right thing to do.

Like I've said here before, I think the less we as moderators do the better - but that doesn't mean we can always do NOTHING.

No word on when his account is coming off of "hold?"

Post holds are always two weeks.

I vote for his return Easter morning.

 

[D P356]

Noy,
Like you said, you're 10+ years into your field. Maybe you have seen it all. You might have made it through a whole "cycle" on this forum, and now the questions you asked 10+ years ago seem so basic you don't even want to waste your time reading them. If you're looking for this forum to be more stimulating, why don't you become a mod? That way you can run the show and ban whoever you want. Just a suggestion.

 

[IDBasco]

I'd be happy if people would stop starting new threads to say how much this forum sucks.

Don't like it? Don't have to stick around.

 

[Noyac]

Noy,
Like you said, you're 10+ years into your field. Maybe you have seen it all. You might have made it through a whole "cycle" on this forum, and now the questions you asked 10+ years ago seem so basic you don't even want to waste your time reading them. If you're looking for this forum to be more stimulating, why don't you become a mod? That way you can run the show and ban whoever you want. Just a suggestion.

Thanks for yur comment but me being a mod is the last thing they want. Plus the mods here are not given the full moderation access that the other mods receive therefore they are just tools for the admin to use and are expendable.

 

[Noyac]

I'd be happy if people would stop starting new threads to say how much this forum sucks.

Don't like it? Don't have to stick around.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Noyac]

Pgg, I went back to Jets posts and I don't see any reason for the post-hold. Here is the post where he received an infraction:
Sounds like you need to go to the Family Medicine forum and read my post...btw I received an infraction for resurrecting it....

Uhhhhhhh......MODERATORS WHO GAVE ME AN INFRACTION.....

READ THIS INDIVIDUAL'S POST.

I'M NOT TRYING TO, AS YOU PUT IT,

"FLAME"

ANYBODY.

I'm posting

THE TRUTH

about salaries,

and how said salaries are important to

DEBT LADEN STUDENTS.

INFRACTION?

HAHAHAHAHA

No man.

The Thruth.

For a

DEBT FILLED STUDENT LIKE THE DUDE THAT POSTED THIS OP.

And SDN is

CENSORING ME

because I choose to share

MY OPINION

about med students and their fears about paying off

TWO HUNDRED LARGE

MODERATORS,

SEND ME ALL THE INFRACTIONS YOU FEEL THE NEED FOR.

When you're done with your little gate-keeping, power filled

MINUTE,

Read this dude's

ORIGINAL POST, MAN.

NOBODY TALKS FINANCIALS IN MED SCHOOL.

NOBODY.

AND YOU'RE GONNA GIVE ME AN INFRACTION FOR POSTING "WHY MAKE 150k WHEN 450k IS OUT THERE?"

To med students out there weighed down with

TWO HUNDRED LARGE PLUS

in student loans?

I GET AN AN INFRACTION FOR

"FLAMING?"

No man.

We all have opinions.

I believe med students need to be educated better about the balance between

THEIR STUDENT LOAN DEBT AND

HOW THEIR CHOSEN SPECIALTY IS GONNA HELP THEM

OR HURT THEM

WITH SAID

DEBT.

Certain specialties in medicine pay

MORE.

Certain specialties pay

LESS.

I didn't make the rules.

IF YOU ARE 200k or more in student loan debt, monetarily,

THE SPECIALTY YOU SELECT WILL DRAMATICALLY EFFECT YOUR

MONETARY LIFE.

Now, it's obviously

POLITICALLY INCORRECT FOR ME TO TELL YOU THAT SINCE, WELL,

I've received an infraction from SDN

for posting my concerns about med students out there with alotta debt,

their specialty choices, and how their specialty choice will affect the

REST OF THEIR LIFE.

INFRACTION FOR ME.

FOR THAT.

Looks like we've got a Buncha

NAIVE MODERATORS.

Wait, whats that

FREEDOM OF SPEECH AMENDMENT?

I'm sorry.... I forgot which number...

Now can anyone explain to me how this warrants an infraction?

 

[Gern Blansten]

Since pgg cannot comment per forum guidelines, I will repeat my theory. I think it probably involved some private discussions or comments that have been since removed. Knowing JPP's history here, it is not out of the realm of possibilities that he got upset and went postal on someone. I am sure if he returns, he will share his testimony. He has never been shy about that type of thing.

 

[Noyac]

Pgg, are you seriously telling me you don't know who locked my last thread? The fact that you are making it clear that it wasn't a mod tells me that you are feeling somewhat guarded. Possibly feeling as though you have overstepped your bounds lately and trying to make sure you don't get more grief. As a moderator you need to be confident in your decisions. You are not. Please review Jets many recent posts and tell me how he is violating any TOS's. I don't see any bullying in there. I see strong opinions. And tho some are offended they are still learning something here that they would not get from their attendings. In the past people were offended all the time but they never cried to the mods so much. You are doing a disservice to this newer bunch. Michigangirl was offended almost daily/weekly a few years back and she stuck it out and is now one of the best posters here. Instead of whining to,the mods she fought back, gave her opinions, called our bluff, and made everyone think about what they were saying. That girl has all my respect (she probably despises me). These newer members, I don't know.

 

[Bertelman]

I think people just look for the easy target to lay off their daily steam. I'm an easy target. Success in another arena, then coming into medicine later in life...let's load up the ammo.

If you stop reminding us of your successful life, people may stop using it against you. They can only use the tools you give them.

And you aren't the only one here who started medicine later in life, so that's probably not relevant to this discussion.

 

[doctor712]

If you stop reminding us of your successful life, people may stop using it against you. They can only use the tools you give them.

And you aren't the only one here who started medicine later in life, so that's probably not relevant to this discussion.

Bertelman,

If other people's good fortunes are what you find acceptable to use as ammunition to attack people here, then you are, by far, the most ridiculous human-being on this forum. Take a cue from Norm, UTSouthwest, about what's important in life and how to treat your fellow docs, colleagues, patients and strangers for that matter.
The fact that you find someone else's success as target practice, and sit here to write about it being an ok thing to do, is repulsive. And let's get this straight: the only reason I don't tell you how I REALLY feel is I'm on some sort of 2-week notice of my own. But I hope the REST OF THE ENTIRE forum, of overachieving and hard working doctors, who work their BUTTS off for success (certainly that I personally measure only in a SMALL part by $$$) see the utter hypocrisy in your post.

And yes, I've been ATTACKED on here for going to med school later in life. The whole, "it's a calling thing" too. But I guess that's fair game for you as well, right? Right.
Relevant to the discussion? I'll tell you what's relevant, if I write it, it's now a relevant part of OUR discussion. Two way street. Got it?

If I had an inkling of respect for you as a doc or person prior to your post, you've lost it. And I hope I have more than one follower who has seen the light with your pathetic comment. :thumb down :thumb down

You see me posting million dollar lifestyle posts here? House on Mulholland posts here? 5,000 watch posts? Mercedes posts? Or do I talk about my 03 Jeep and get flamed for it? And my observing and studying? And test tasking? And some behind the scenes talk about making tv shows? Does that success really IRK you? TOO BAD. And WOW.

Pathetic. Mods, take note, Bert's looking for a rise.

D712

 

[IDBasco]

Dude. Let it go. Seriously.

 

[Noyac]

712, I didn't read Bert's post as an attack on you. I read it more like an opinion as to why you get so much hate here.

 

[bigak999]

hell of a wah-fest we got here.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Pgg, are you seriously telling me you don't know who locked my last thread? The fact that you are making it clear that it wasn't a mod tells me that you are feeling somewhat guarded. Possibly feeling as though you have overstepped your bounds lately and trying to make sure you don't get more grief. As a moderator you need to be confident in your decisions. You are not. Please review Jets many recent posts and tell me how he is violating any TOS's. I don't see any bullying in there. I see strong opinions. And tho some are offended they are still learning something here that they would not get from their attendings. In the past people were offended all the time but they never cried to the mods so much. You are doing a disservice to this newer bunch. Michigangirl was offended almost daily/weekly a few years back and she stuck it out and is now one of the best posters here. Instead of whining to,the mods she fought back, gave her opinions, called our bluff, and made everyone think about what they were saying. That girl has all my respect. These newer members, I don't know.

Maybe he meant it wasn't an anesth forum moderator that closed it. All I know is that All4MyDaughter came in to remove the large and disgusting jogger picture, not because it was disgusting, but because it was too large and had formatting issues. Soon after that, the thread was locked. Maybe not by her, but possibly by another higher up moderator. I tend to believe pgg and if he said it wasn't one of his team, I believe him.
I think it was about 5 years ago we went through the same crisis. The site leaders wanted to moderate the anesth forum just like all others. Jet was actually one of the ring leaders who fought it and I think it led to him becoming a moderator for a while. Noy, maybe that was when you became a moderator as well. My memory is not that good. Anyone else remember that time?

 

[doctor712]

712, I didn't read Bert's post as an attack on you. I read it more like an opinion as to why you get so much hate here.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's so much of an attack as it is justifying why he and others can AND SHOULD hate. And frankly - HATING AN ANONYMOUS INTERNET POSTER...REALLY??????????? Is that what Bert really spends his time doing?

Yes.

Lemme not sidestep it, on that other thread that got locked recently, the big war one, Bert managed his usual, thoughtless posts targeting me and Jet. Typical. He must be some sort of pent up writer who has been trying to write his great american novel/screenplay and can't get a publisher or agent to read it let alone use it for toilet paper. He isn't giving me genuine heartfelt advice. His posts, time and again, have attacked me. For the record.

So, ya know what? I just think of UTSouthwest and how he would look at someone who wastes his time targeting strangers who are otherwise happily living their lives...

And IdBasco, I SERIOUSLY, have nothing to say to you. I wouldn't even waste your time writing to me. But you can't help yourself can you? Go study or something...live your life.
I said EVERYTHING I had to say to you in the other thread.

On another note, I know who gave JPP the infraction. If he wants to share it publicly that's up to him.

I don't bemoan the Mods here, they have their hands full, mostly with people with nothing better to do than to fling crap at people's direction who don't deserve it. Chasing people because of their success. Wow. Just wow.
Jealously 101. Have a nice life Bert! Lord, I'd love to see what you look like one day, I can only imagine the attitude.

D712

 

[Gern Blansten]

712, I didn't read Bert's post as an attack on you. I read it more like an opinion as to why you get so much hate here.

Agree. Anything you (or anyone else) say on this forum can and will be used against you in a court of public opinion among internet strangers. It should not be taken too seriously.

 

[doctor712]

712, I didn't read Bert's post as an attack on you. I read it more like an opinion as to why you get so much hate here.

Funny how all the Mercedes posts, and gorgeous house posts, and BMW posts and "I'm going to buy a 100,000$ car posts when I graduate residency" and "I'm going on a 5,000$ ski trip posts" and "I got a 256 on my Step 1 posts" don't garner the same anger and hostility from Bertelman or others here...

I respect you tons Noy, you know that. Totally do. But I disagree here. I get hate because I speak up. Loudly. And I write so I know how to convey feelings, well.

Oh, and apparently, I speak up having had "success" in my life. And lord, do I throw it around more than the peeps posting pics of their $80,000 cars and $10,000 watches. Neither of which I own. I don't find an ounce of hate in me after I read those posts. It's sharing experiences, good for them!!!! Jet posts pics of his plane, does he get "plane" hate?!

Apparently, Bertelman feels otherwise. My .02$ Noy! :thumb up: I'll always think you're the man!!!!

D712

 

[doctor712]

Agree. Anything you (or anyone else) say on this forum can and will be used against you in a court of public opinion among internet strangers. It should not be taken too seriously.

Agreed. If I put something out there, use it against me at your will. I'll be more guarded, BUT it's hypocritical with all the insane posting about success and lavish crap that goes on here. I'll put my head on the pillow knowing I don't get onto SDN and brag about dinner with the Pitts (hypothetical).... However, while your point is taken, is that the spirit of this forum, hating successes?

No.

Well, actually, lately, YES.

So, use it against me. Make yourself look like a tool. (not you Gern, but you know what I'm saying.) I'll just call you out on it... that's my M.O. So, play on.

D712

 

[pgg]

Pgg, are you seriously telling me you don't know who locked my last thread?

To be honest, I thought you locked "Are You Serious" yourself, as the thread starter. It's possible someone else did and I didn't notice that action.

Possibly feeling as though you have overstepped your bounds lately and trying to make sure you don't get more grief.

For the record, I'm absolutely totally 100% comfortable with every bit of moderating input and action I've taken here since the aforementioned ban - which I still think was correct, despite some reservations.

Avoiding grief doesn't motivate me. It's OK, tell me what you really think. You won't hurt my feelings. I am unfortunately unable to respond as fully as I'd like because of privacy issues.

As a moderator you need to be confident in your decisions. You are not.

Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt?

Pass.

Please review Jets many recent posts and tell me how he is violating any TOS's.

As I've said a bunch of times already, you'll have to ask Jet.

Michigangirl was offended almost daily/weekly a few years back and she stuck it out and is now one of the best posters here. Instead of whining to,the mods she fought back, gave her opinions, called our bluff, and made everyone think about what they were saying. That girl has all my respect. These newer members, I don't know.

First, you shouldn't assume who is, or isn't, "crying to the mods" or how frequently they do so via the "report post" button.

Second, neither your approval nor your respect are required for them, whoever they are, to be able to utilize the forum.


There really isn't much more to be gained from me arguing with you here. Your opinion is noted and I do appreciate where you're coming from, and what drew you to this forum. I do agree with you on some subjects.

Settle down.

 

[Noyac]

Ok you have been around long enough. You should know not to tell someone to "settle down" like you are the boss or something. I was attempting to have a conversation with you and others and you must admit that I have been extremely controlled in this subject. All I have done is ask for some dialog on the subject. So don't tell me to "settle down".

As you and the others mods know, I am very familiar with the rules here. But we can discuss the big picture here without discussing the particulars of the events. And for your information, I have been talking with Jet. I know what's going on and therefore, I am upset at the censorship of a member of this forum. There was a time when censorship was occurring on this forum from other mods outside the anesth forum. We made huge strides in preventing this back then and now it appears our current mods have lost what most here considered to be a valued piece of this forum.

Bullying is all a matter of opinion. We have all had those attendings that had a very brash way of making a point. Did we run crying to the administrators in residency? I didn't. I doubt that any of the more well adjusted members here did either. It's a part of life and a bigger part of medicine.

And for everyone's information, I closed the last thread. It lost focus. This one is trying to do the same so let's try to stay on subject here, everyone.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Agreed. If I put something out there, use it against me at your will. I'll be more guarded, BUT it's hypocritical with all the insane posting about success and lavish crap that goes on here. I'll put my head on the pillow knowing I don't get onto SDN and brag about dinner with the Pitts (hypothetical).... However, while your point is taken, is that the spirit of this forum, hating successes?

No.

Well, actually, lately, YES.

So, use it against me. Make yourself look like a tool. (not you Gern, but you know what I'm saying.) I'll just call you out on it... that's my M.O. So, play on.

D712

If someone has been on this forum long enough, they will have most likely been the victim of an internet drive by attack. The key is to not feel singled out. Just realize this is an anonymous forum and don't take it personal. Very hard to do sometimes, but probably the wise thing is to laugh it off and play along. Responding with anger in real life may get the attack to stop. In the internet world, it just brings more people into the fray.
I feel certain that if anyone here met you in real life (or met Jet in real life), they would be appropriately respectful and proud to meet you. They would applaud you for accomplishments in life and probably speak very highly of having gotten the chance to meet you. Given your success in life, I suspect you are accustomed to that. However, please recognize that no one here, including me, knows you other than what is posted here. It is very easy for anyone, including you, to just take a drive by cheap shot at some anonymous person on the net.
I really don't think anyone is singling you out per se, other than for things that you have said in the past that drew their ire. If ignored, it usually passes.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Pgg, are you seriously telling me you don't know who locked my last thread? The fact that you are making it clear that it wasn't a mod tells me that you are feeling somewhat guarded. Possibly feeling as though you have overstepped your bounds lately and trying to make sure you don't get more grief. As a moderator you need to be confident in your decisions.

If you locked your own thread, why did you post this question? I mistakenly thought you were accusing PGG of locking your thread. I guess maybe I have no idea what the agenda is.

 

[Noyac]

If you locked your own thread, why did you post this question? I mistakenly thought you were accusing PGG of locking your thread. I guess maybe I have no idea what the agenda is.

I never accused pgg of locking the thread. He is a mod. He should know who locked it. That was the question. If he didn't know it was me then he isn't paying attention close enough to be a mod.

 

[urge]

Bullying is all a matter of opinion. We have all had those attendings that had a very brash way of making a point. Did we run crying to the administrators in residency? I didn't. I doubt that any of the more well adjusted members here did either. It's a part of life and a bigger part of medicine.

Times change. I'm afraid you are the one disconnected from realiity.

Residents do complain to administration all the time. They know the head of the GME office by first name. 10 -20 yrs ago you wouldn't have fathomed doing that.

It's a different generation in a different situation.

You & your generation, have inherited sh%t to the new people coming in. Lower payments, longer hours, CRNA competition....

The new people react to that. They say "F U, you are not as great as you think. In fact chances are you suck big time."

Every man is on his own right now.

The mutual masturbation society is over.

Hope this stops the "this forums has gone downhill, it was so much better back when......." threads.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I never accused pgg of locking the thread. He is a mod. He should know who locked it. That was the question. If he didn't know it was me then he isn't paying attention close enough to be a mod.

I think he stated that he was under the impression that you had locked it. I think he intentionally did not call you out on locking it because he respects your privacy decisions just like he is respecting Jet's.
That is my impression anyway. I think both of you knew who closed the thread, but the casual reader, like me, thought there was some big mystery about who locked it or some looming big brother issue from the higher ups. Good to know that is not the case.

 

[Noyac]

Times change. I'm afraid you are the one disconnected from realiity.

Residents do complain to administration all the time. They know the head of the GME office by first name. 10 -20 yrs ago you wouldn't have fathomed doing that.

It's a different generation in a different situation.

You & your generation, have inherited sh%t to the new people coming in. Lower payments, longer hours, CRNA competition....

The new people react to that. They say "F U, you are not as great as you think. In fact chances are you suck big time."

Every man is on his own right now.

The mutual masturbation society is over.

Hope this stops the "this forums has gone downhill, it was so much better back when......." threads.

So you are for this censorship?

And you are right about the new crop if people coming out. That is why my group has made a decision not to hire new grads any more.

 

[btbam]

Jwk ([edit]) i know who you are, drop the attitude.

 

[Gern Blansten]

And you are right about the new crop if people coming out. That is why my group has made a decision not to hire new grads any more.

I would agree that the percentage of current med students and residents in all specialties like that is much higher than 20 years ago, but I would be hesitant to condemn all. I personally know many who are outstanding and work their butts off with never a complaint. In fact, many are embarrassed and ashamed for their colleagues who have poor work ethic. The trick for the private groups is finding the good ones out there, because there are still a lot.

 

[IDBasco]

Hope this stops the "this forums has gone downhill, it was so much better back when......." threads.

If we could only be so lucky.

 

[sevoflurane]

Jwk ([edit]) i know who you are, drop the attitude.

Dude... you don't have to call him out like that. Not cool.

 

[tkim]

712, I didn't read Bert's post as an attack on you. I read it more like an opinion as to why you get so much hate here.

Yup.

 

[tkim]

Jwk ([edit]) i know who you are, drop the attitude.

Veiled threat, and a TOS.

 

[pgg]

Ok you have been around long enough. You should know not to tell someone to "settle down" like you are the boss or something.

Funny you should mention that; I got into a lot of trouble as a resident once for telling an irate neurosurgeon to "settle down" ... sorry, it's just something I say reflexively to people who appear disproportionately angsty about something. I'm not telling you to shut up.

I was attempting to have a conversation with you and others and you must admit that I have been extremely controlled in this subject. All I have done is ask for some dialog on the subject. So don't tell me to "settle down".

Fair enough, I'll give full credit where it's due - you've been civil, if perhaps a bit disingenuous.

As you and the others mods know, I am very familiar with the rules here. But we can discuss the big picture here without discussing the particulars of the events.

It's difficult, because every time I want to rebut or contradict you, doing so requires specific examples, and those specific examples run up against our privacy policy.

Tell you what - if Jet stops by after his post-hold is up, and voluntarily posts the post-hold PM I sent him, +/- the other PMs other mods sent him, I'd be happy to hash out the particulars with him and you.

The big picture I can discuss with you here and now, is the same big picture I've discussed before: to wit, I think a moderator's place is to do as little as possible

And for your information, I have been talking with Jet. I know what's going on and therefore, I am upset at the censorship of a member of this forum. There was a time when censorship was occurring on this forum from other mods outside the anesth forum. We made huge strides in preventing this back then and now it appears our current mods have lost what most here considered to be a valued piece of this forum.

Well, history is open to interpretation. I've been here a while, longer than my join date confirms, but that's neither here nor there. I remember previous mods' tenures, from the very good to the very bad. I remember the attempts to pseudo-split the gas forum off from SDN proper, and there are reasons why that didn't last.

Bullying is all a matter of opinion. We have all had those attendings that had a very brash way of making a point. Did we run crying to the administrators in residency? I didn't. I doubt that any of the more well adjusted members here did either. It's a part of life and a bigger part of medicine.

You're confusing issues here.

First, the mere fact that most of us had the maturity and self-preservation instincts to put up with douchebag attendings rather than cry to administrators, doesn't mean those guys weren't douchebags.

Second, where the analogy further fails is that here, we the mods ARE the administrators, and there's a certain level of TOS-violating douchebaggery that we are, in fact, obligated to, you know, moderate.

And for everyone's information, I closed the last thread. It lost focus. This one is trying to do the same so let's try to stay on subject here, everyone.

I never accused pgg of locking the thread. He is a mod. He should know who locked it. That was the question. If he didn't know it was me then he isn't paying attention close enough to be a mod.

Yes, I/we all knew you locked it. I thought perhaps you were talking about another thread that got locked - because otherwise this quote doesn't make any sense:

Pgg, are you seriously telling me you don't know who locked my last thread? The fact that you are making it clear that it wasn't a mod tells me that you are feeling somewhat guarded.

Well, I guess it makes some sense if you were playing games with trying to insinuate that anti-censorship Noyac didn't lock his own thread, hoping you wouldn't get called on it.

 

[IlDestriero]

Jwk ([edit]) i know who you are, drop the attitude.

This is exactly the kind BS that makes me question my participation here. Congrats jackhole.
It's stuff like this that keep people from posting.

 

[Noyac]

Funny you should mention that; I got into a lot of trouble as a resident once for telling an irate neurosurgeon to "settle down" ... sorry, it's just something I say reflexively to people who appear disproportionately angsty about something. I'm not telling you to shut up.




Fair enough, I'll give full credit where it's due - you've been civil, if perhaps a bit disingenuous.




It's difficult, because every time I want to rebut or contradict you, doing so requires specific examples, and those specific examples run up against our privacy policy.

Tell you what - if Jet stops by after his post-hold is up, and voluntarily posts the post-hold PM I sent him, +/- the other PMs other mods sent him, I'd be happy to hash out the particulars with him and you.

The big picture I can discuss with you here and now, is the same big picture I've discussed before: to wit, I think a moderator's place is to do as little as possible



Well, history is open to interpretation. I've been here a while, longer than my join date confirms, but that's neither here nor there. I remember previous mods' tenures, from the very good to the very bad. I remember the attempts to pseudo-split the gas forum off from SDN proper, and there are reasons why that didn't last.



You're confusing issues here.

First, the mere fact that most of us had the maturity and self-preservation instincts to put up with douchebag attendings rather than cry to administrators, doesn't mean those guys weren't douchebags.

Second, where the analogy further fails is that here, we the mods ARE the administrators, and there's a certain level of TOS-violating douchebaggery that we are, in fact, obligated to, you know, moderate.





Yes, I/we all knew you locked it. I thought perhaps you were talking about another thread that got locked - because otherwise this quote doesn't make any sense:Well, I guess it makes some sense if you were playing games with trying to insinuate that anti-censorship Noyac didn't lock his own thread, hoping you wouldn't get called on it.

Now we are talking. Thank you for that.
I locked the thread because the topic wasn't discussed in the last two pages. It was way off topic. Locking a thread is not censorship because I didn't delete anyone's post I just stopped the progression of the insanity. I didn't stop anyone from posting either. What other post could I have possibly been talking about. I'm not playing games here, I think you know me better than that. I am just attempting to help this forum as I did back when the forum was separated from the main forum. As I remember it was as much Lee's idea as it was anyone else's and it helped at the time because we had mods from other forums coming here and censoring people that had been posting critical information for a long time. These mods were woefully uninformed like many of the current members of this forum. Their intentions may have been good but the results were nearly disastrous. That is why some of us are here to help. And if any of you can say you haven't gained something valuable from Jet then you haven't been here long enough. I went overboard in the earlier thread by saying Jet is always right but it was an attempt to grasp the importance of his presence here. I would be doing this for any member of this forum that has contributed so much and made this forum such a great wealth of information for so many people. Jet just also happens to be a friend.

My response to this can't be of any surprise the the admins. But I am surprised that they have allowed this to occur. There is a lot of history here. Jet is a known entity so why in the world would they allow this now?

 

[doctor712]

.

 

[stationroad]

you all sound like girls from facebook... geez... no wonder it is so easy to employ you guys in AMCs or make you sign employment agreements LOL

 

[doctor712]

Funny you should mention that; I got into a lot of trouble as a resident once for telling an irate neurosurgeon to "settle down" ... sorry, it's just something I say reflexively to people who appear disproportionately angsty about something. I'm not telling you to shut up.

But you did get in trouble, didn't you? I guess the irate neurosurgeon didn't like that term either? :roll eyes: You didn't learn from the trouble you got in with irate neurosurgeon?

Fair enough, I'll give full credit where it's due - you've been civil, if perhaps a bit disingenuous. The big picture I can discuss with you here and now, is the same big picture I've discussed before: to wit, I think a moderator's place is to do as little as possible

Other than name call leaders of the board as being disingenuous? Is that what you mean?

Yes, I/we all knew you locked it. I thought perhaps you were talking about another thread that got locked - because otherwise this quote doesn't make any sense:Well, I guess it makes some sense if you were playing games with trying to insinuate that anti-censorship Noyac didn't lock his own thread, hoping you wouldn't get called on it.

I had no idea Noy closed it. I had no idea Noy could even close his own, or that I could close my own thread. Who knew.
Noyac's point is taken. Maybe he wasn't referring to the thread you mean... Who knows. We can ALL guess...

D712