Experiences as or with URMs at your school

[Hard24Get]

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But back to the subject. Anyone have new comments or insights into experiences as or with URMs in medicine? 😛

Hard24Get, great idea you had of getting back to the subject. Boy, you sure are smart! 👍

Stepping away a bit from the strict idea of URMs, I would like to comment on my experience with homosexual people in my medical class. My school has a very active LGBT, and it was very positive because even married heterosexuals were involved in the government, and everyone was invited to the parties (which were great!). I felt that the LGBT model was a great one for URMs because everyone was involved in embracing diversity, learning about each other, and accepting the differences we found. As colleagues, of course I didn't notice any differences (at least where I come from, URMs don't seem to make better or worse medical students), but I think as it was pointed out earlier, it is critical that we have these experiences with one another so we can be truly accepting of our patients.

Again, Hard24Get, I would just like to thank you for your great post that really helped get this thread back on track 😀.

 

[midwest_turtle]

Again, Hard24Get, I would just like to thank you for your great post that really helped get this thread back on track 😀.

i'd like to thank you as well. and i thought your comment about the lgbt group at your school was pretty interesting. just being able to share in each others stories and see where another person is coming from definitely allows for growth. thats something that i think us urms should be doing too. being able to share your stories are wonderful, but having allies you'll stand up for you when you're not there is also nice.

 

[wistarrat]

Hard24Get, great idea you had of getting back to the subject. Boy, you sure are smart! 👍

Stepping away a bit from the strict idea of URMs, I would like to comment on my experience with homosexual people in my medical class. My school has a very active LGBT, and it was very positive because even married heterosexuals were involved in the government, and everyone was invited to the parties (which were great!). I felt that the LGBT model was a great one for URMs because everyone was involved in embracing diversity, learning about each other, and accepting the differences we found. As colleagues, of course I didn't notice any differences (at least where I come from, URMs don't seem to make better or worse medical students), but I think as it was pointed out earlier, it is critical that we have these experiences with one another so we can be truly accepting of our patients.

Again, Hard24Get, I would just like to thank you for your great post that really helped get this thread back on track 😀.

Quick question:
LGBT=URM??

OMG, I'm not starting a flame war, I honestly have no idea. Never even dawned on me. 😕

 

[beefballs]

I think it stands for lesbian bisexual gay transgender

 

[wistarrat]

I think it stands for lesbian bisexual gay transgender

HA! Yeah, I do know that. I was just taken aback seeing anything LGBT related in a URM-focused forum. I'll cruise the forum archives to see what people have said about this, as I'm sure it's been exhausted and flame-warred in the past. Hard24get, you rock, by the way. It looks like we are at the same school, too, and I believe we have had lunch together a few times. Unless, of course, your avatar is not your photo.

 

[Hard24Get]

HA! Yeah, I do know that. I was just taken aback seeing anything LGBT related in a URM-focused forum. I'll cruise the forum archives to see what people have said about this, as I'm sure it's been exhausted and flame-warred in the past. Hard24get, you rock, by the way. It looks like we are at the same school, too, and I believe we have had lunch together a few times. Unless, of course, your avatar is not your photo.

Hi Wistarrat. IMHO, LGBT's (at least out of the closet ones) are definitely URMs. If the idea of encouraging diversity at med school is to experience all different types of people, then all different types of people should be at the medical school (with perhaps the exception of drug addicts 😉 . The gay population (like its heterosexual counterpart) has disease conditions and risk factors that are unique and important to consider in medical practice. Hopefully, by getting to know and accepting LGBTs as colleagues, we will be better physicians, and patients will have practitioners to turn to that they can identify with.

By the way - I don't think I've ever met you.....

 

[8744]

Hey, if I had a bad experience with a URM could I post it or would I be accused of being a bigot? I haven't read the whole thread but I get the idea that this is sort of a hand-holding, swaying to folk-music, kumbahyah kind of thread.

Are we allowed to have bad experiences with URMs?

 

[tega]

Hey, if I had a bad experience with a URM could I post it or would I be accused of being a bigot? I haven't read the whole thread but I get the idea that this is sort of a hand-holding, swaying to folk-music, kumbahyah kind of thread.

Are we allowed to have bad experiences with URMs?

NO 🙄

 

[gostudy]

Are we allowed to have bad experiences with URMs?

No one said you couldn't. No one's perfect. Including all URMs.

 

[Diceman M.D.]

Hey, if I had a bad experience with a URM could I post it or would I be accused of being a bigot? I haven't read the whole thread but I get the idea that this is sort of a hand-holding, swaying to folk-music, kumbahyah kind of thread.

Are we allowed to have bad experiences with URMs?

Yeah, like we're allowed to have bad experiences with anyone else. I've had some pretty ****ty experiences with Blacks, other Asians, Latinos, Gays and everything else under the sun. Then again...the only time when I actually felt scared for my personal safety was when I was dealing with neo nazis in Huntingdon Beach, CA. Fortunately I was with friends and they realized they couldn't do anything to us without sustaining heavy casualties themselves. Freaking cowards.

Hey Panda, contrary to what you might think about people involved in a discussion on race and class, you're free to say anything you want, even if it's unpopular - this thread is actually NOT some kind of unwashed bleeding heart hippie powwow where we all hold hands and dance naked around a talking vagina sculpture in some kind of ridiculous age of aquarius remix celebrating not shaving our pits. I'm a liberal myself and my first instinct on seeing anyone singing "kumbahyah" is to break out the tear gas, dogs, and batons. That said, it's also my instinct to do that when I drive past country clubs.

 

[8744]

...I'm a liberal myself and my first instinct on seeing anyone singing "kumbahyah" is to break out the tear gas, dogs, and batons...

You're all right.

 

[wistarrat]

Hi Wistarrat. IMHO, LGBT's (at least out of the closet ones) are definitely URMs. If the idea of encouraging diversity at med school is to experience all different types of people, then all different types of people should be at the medical school (with perhaps the exception of drug addicts 😉 . The gay population (like its heterosexual counterpart) has disease conditions and risk factors that are unique and important to consider in medical practice. Hopefully, by getting to know and accepting LGBTs as colleagues, we will be better physicians, and patients will have practitioners to turn to that they can identify with.

By the way - I don't think I've ever met you.....

that's a shame. i swear i met you at the peace rally last weekend. i was the one with the braids and guitar. you were singing improvisation about gender inequality. that wasn't you?

peace out, forum. 👎

 

[beefballs]

Hey, if I had a bad experience with a URM could I post it or would I be accused of being a bigot? I haven't read the whole thread but I get the idea that this is sort of a hand-holding, swaying to folk-music, kumbahyah kind of thread.

Are we allowed to have bad experiences with URMs?

actually some things hvae been said in regards to racial interaction, was it direct-yes but not tactless.What is the point of saying things in a manner that will send this thread into an exchange of insults and finger pointing? Everybody is ten feet tall and bullet proof on the internet, so attempting to maintain a dialogue does require self enforcement of etiquette. So in your opinion tact, and respect for others views(which by in large has been the rule in this thread) equals some sort of love-in? You didn't read the thread-so start there and see if you can contribute anything.

 

[Thundrstorm]

Hey, if I had a bad experience with a URM could I post it or would I be accused of being a bigot? I haven't read the whole thread but I get the idea that this is sort of a hand-holding, swaying to folk-music, kumbahyah kind of thread.

Are we allowed to have bad experiences with URMs?

Of course you can have bad experiences with URMs, as with any other person (but, then, you knew that; didn't you? 😉 ). The problem arises when you take that experience and apply it to all URMs.

 

[8744]

actually some things hvae been said in regards to racial interaction, was it direct-yes but not tactless.What is the point of saying things in a manner that will send this thread into an exchange of insults and finger pointing? Everybody is ten feet tall and bullet proof on the internet, so attempting to maintain a dialogue does require self enforcement of etiquette. So in your opinion tact, and respect for others views(which by in large has been the rule in this thread) equals some sort of love-in? You didn't read the thread-so start there and see if you can contribute anything.

Sure. But why have a thread like this at all? At best it is incredibly patronizing as it sounds like the OP is saying, "Gee, let's get up a thread to show how minorities are just regular folks like you and me...even if their music is strange and they like to dance."

Come on now. Haven't we evolved as a country to the point where I can like or dislike somebody without giving or taking points for race?

 

[8744]

Of course you can have bad experiences with URMs, as with any other person (but, then, you knew that; didn't you? 😉 ). The problem arises when you take that experience and apply it to all URMs.

Oh. OK. But why skyline minorities by issuing a de facto challenge for somebody to come right out and say that sometimes things have not been all rosy and keen vis a vis race relations and sometime it is the minority person who is to blame?

This whole thread sounds like a group exercise in "some of my best friends are..etc."

Would I lose points if I said that all of my friends are white conservative men and that this doesn't bother me at all?

 

[beefballs]

Sure. But why have a thread like this at all? At best it is incredibly patronizing as it sounds like the OP is saying, "Gee, let's get up a thread to show how minorities are just regular folks like you and me...even if their music is strange and they like to dance."

Come on now. Haven't we evolved as a country to the point where I can like or dislike somebody without giving or taking points for race?

I see your point in that light, although I don't think that the thread has taken on that character, there were frank discussions on previous pages

 

[gostudy]

Would I lose points if I said that all of my friends are white conservative men and that this doesn't bother me at all?

No. But, why are you reluctant to post your real thoughts on this subject?

 

[Ypo.]

Would I lose points if I said that all of my friends are white conservative men and that this doesn't bother me at all?

Are they really?? (just being snoopy). Well, honestly I don't believe you. Its comforting but also boring to be surrounded by people who share the same point of views, the same ethnicity. Isn't that one reason why you post here? So you can argue with people who have different points of view?

 

[SoCuteMD]

Is this thread dead yet?!?!?

 

[8744]

Are they really?? (just being snoopy). Well, honestly I don't believe you. Its comforting but also boring to be surrounded by people who share the same point of views, the same ethnicity. Isn't that one reason why you post here? So you can argue with people who have different points of view?

Yeah, but I don't necessarily want to argue with my friends all of the time. All of my friends are Republicans too, and most of them are veterans as well. My wife always asks what we talk about to which the answer is, "we exchanged vulgarities of a decidely homophobic, racist, and misogynistic flavor."

You know, guy stuff.

 

[8744]

No. But, why are you reluctant to post your real thoughts on this subject?

My real thoughts are exactly as I state them. I think it this thread is good natured and well meant but it if I were a minority I imagine I'd be a little put out that people were afraid to offend me simply because of my race.

 

[gostudy]

My real thoughts are exactly as I state them. I think it this thread is good natured and well meant but it if I were a minority I imagine I'd be a little put out that people were afraid to offend me simply because of my race.

Agreed. Generalizations are always grounds for trouble. No one is generalizing here though, just citing their individual experiences. If you have individual experiences, it'd be cool to share them even if they're negative.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

My real thoughts are exactly as I state them. I think it this thread is good natured and well meant but it if I were a minority I imagine I'd be a little put out that people were afraid to offend me simply because of my race.

I enjoy this thread because it's a discussion of racial differences that doesn't carry an derogatory or accusing tone. I don't think this is an attempt by non-minorities to suck up to the minorities so we won't feel so bad, I think this thread can and has been very educational. We've even discussed the differences within minority groups that many tend to overlook. This thread cultivates familiarity among and between minority groups, and is generally good natured.

 

[Ypo.]

My real thoughts are exactly as I state them. I think it this thread is good natured and well meant but it if I were a minority I imagine I'd be a little put out that people were afraid to offend me simply because of my race.

I always thought you were mixed black and white. You 'are' a Panda, you know. You really should have chosen Polar Bear instead, because they are big white fluffy bears that look friendly but are actually one of man's few true predators.
Oh well, your loss.

And if it makes you feel better; I'll never be afraid to offend you, I promise. 😉

 

[8744]

I always thought you were mixed black and white. You 'are' a Panda, you know. You really should have chosen Polar Bear instead, because they are big white fluffy bears that look friendly but are actually one of man's few true predators.
Oh well, your loss.

And if it makes you feel better; I'll never be afraid to offend you, I promise. 😉

Greek.

 

[Thundrstorm]

Sure. But why have a thread like this at all? At best it is incredibly patronizing as it sounds like the OP is saying, "Gee, let's get up a thread to show how minorities are just regular folks like you and me...even if their music is strange and they like to dance."

Come on now. Haven't we evolved as a country to the point where I can like or dislike somebody without giving or taking points for race?

I see what you're saying. To be honest, this thread brought to mind a personal memory from middle school, when I was sitting in science class and one of my classmates proposed this gem to the class: "so, what do you guys think about black people?" Although there have been elements of the "my roommate is black and HE'S not a thug" vibe to the discussion, I think the OP's intent was good. SDNers spend so much time ranting about the dumb URMs who steal their med school spots, and I'm guessing that the OP wanted to hear some positive feedback to disprove the ever-present myth of the dumb, undeserving URM.

 

[1Path]

Greek.

Greek you say? Greeks and Sicilain Italians are the most "african looking" of all the Europeans from what I've seen. Perhaps that's because of that proximity to Africa thing from 1 million years ago.

What's up cuz?

 

[Hard24Get]

I always thought you were mixed black and white. You 'are' a Panda, you know. You really should have chosen Polar Bear instead, because they are big white fluffy bears that look friendly but are actually one of man's few true predators.

 

[8744]

Greek you say? Greeks and Sicilain Italians are the most "african looking" of all the Europeans from what I've seen. Perhaps that's because of that proximity to Africa thing from 1 million years ago.

What's up cuz?

The director of the Center for Multiculturalism at UVM (or whatever the hell it's called now) was perpetually trying to convince me that Greeks are actually black. I mean, I've got no problem with this but my mother would probably take it pretty hard.

My wife also has some 'splaining to do because my kids (with the exception of my daughter) look like the Hitler youth. My family comes from Macedonia and the Black Sea region of Turkey for what it's worth.

 

[8744]

Greek you say? Greeks and Sicilain Italians are the most "african looking" of all the Europeans from what I've seen. Perhaps that's because of that proximity to Africa thing from 1 million years ago.

What's up cuz?

But I'm African enough where it matters...

 

[Thundrstorm]

But I'm African enough where it matters...

haha.

 

[1Path]

But I'm African enough where it matters...

Hey, I ain't mad about that. Just another one of the MANY, MANY advantages of being a brotha!!!!!! 😀

 

[PH7.4]

It's time for either everyone to blend all of the races so we're all light-brown, or for the entire idea of "URM" to be banished.

Separate cannot be equal.

 

[wingwang]

It's time for either everyone to blend all of the races so we're all light-brown, or for the entire idea of "URM" to be banished.

Separate cannot be equal.

no thanks, i prefer being asian-indian 🙂

 

[blkprl]

Since it is difficult to illegally immigrate to the US from Africa, most African immigrants have to be screened by INS before they are admitted to this country. Consequently, only the people who INS finds attractive candidates are naturalized. If I've learned anything from Katrina it's that the US doesn't particularly want poor people--especially not poor blacks. INS selects for more wealthy immigrants. Look at this quote from the center for Immigration studies:



It doesn't make sense that recent African immigrants are poor, but are able to work their way up to a higher median income and higher academic achievements than most Americans (minority or not) in just a few years.

You better believe it, girl!!!

 

[blkprl]

Not trying to be funny but you obivously dont live in california like i do or see many illegals to know that the ERs here in cali have turned into primary care places for immigrants, sucking time away from peple who need urgen care. The floors of hospitals are filled with illegals suckin out millions for free dialysis, free meds, free surgeries-and when told that they would be able to get all this care for free in mexico-they just laugh and say they would rather just get it done "free" here-what a joke-youll see one day when it screws over your pracitice-depends on where you live.
Honestly it is not the immigrants that bother me-My dad got rich using illegals to work for 3 bucks an hour-hey they work hard-but when they start marching for rights and taking their argument to dc and tryin to legislate-the whole point of being illegal is you do NOT get a say in how the country is run-but these illegals are taking it a step further and now want a say in how our goverment legislates-like if you are going to come here illegally deal with the way the usa is or dont come is my point.
Not being funny i just hate illegals-I am an immigrant to the usa and my familyu spent 6 years tryin to get here the RIGHT way, legal way-why cant those stupid illegals go through the right motions-they should be shot at sight on the border-

they are human beings too and you have no right to call them names....
😡

 

[8744]

they are human beings too and you have no right to call them names....
😡

What name did he call them?

 

[blkprl]

Quick question:
LGBT=URM??

OMG, I'm not starting a flame war, I honestly have no idea. Never even dawned on me. 😕

you are right. Underrepresented minority as defined by the American Association of Medical Colleges refers to racial and ethnic minorities in medicine.
So unless lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgendered people are a different race, they are not consider as URMs and techinically do not belong to this thread.

 

[blkprl]

My real thoughts are exactly as I state them. I think it this thread is good natured and well meant but it if I were a minority I imagine I'd be a little put out that people were afraid to offend me simply because of my race.

I guess you haven't read through the whole thread....

 

[Saluki]

I always thought you were mixed black and white. You 'are' a Panda, you know. You really should have chosen Polar Bear instead, because they are big white fluffy bears that look friendly but are actually one of man's few true predators.
Oh well, your loss.

Oh, please don't tell me polar bears are mean- they're so cute in those Coca Cola commercials 😛

I'm not sure how much benefit the thread is bringing, but any thread related to URMs that can last this long without turning into a flame war on AA has my admiration! 😀

On a different note, the nicest girl at one of my interviews was this black girl from my part of the country... I wish so bad that I could have her as my classmate 😍

 

[blkprl]

Oh, please don't tell me polar bears are mean- they're so cute in those Coca Cola commercials 😛

I'm not sure how much benefit the thread is bringing, but any thread related to URMs that can last this long without turning into a flame war on AA has my admiration! 😀

On a different note, the nicest girl at one of my interviews was this black girl from my part of the country... I wish so bad that I could have her as my classmate 😍

speaking of AA here is an interesting article from the AAMC website
https://services.aamc.org/Publications/showfile.cfm?file=version5.pdf&prd_id=75&prv_id=65&pdf_id=5

 

[Saluki]

speaking of AA here is an interesting article from the AAMC website
https://services.aamc.org/Publications/showfile.cfm?file=version5.pdf&prd_id=75&prv_id=65&pdf_id=5

Well, that's the first time I've ever read a clear explanation of the UMich rulings. Thanks blkprl!

 

[Obra4]

speaking of AA here is an interesting article from the AAMC website
https://services.aamc.org/Publications/showfile.cfm?file=version5.pdf&prd_id=75&prv_id=65&pdf_id=5

Awesome link!! Thanks a lot!!!

With some speculating as to what my intent was by starting this post, I simply wanted to create an open forum. I hoped it would bring some clarity to the issue. I wanted all to feel comfortable to express themselves, as long as they treated the discourse seriously. So experiences good and bad are welcome.

 

[MrSosa]

you are right. Underrepresented minority as defined by the American Association of Medical Colleges refers to racial and ethnic minorities in medicine.
So unless lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgendered people are a different race, they are not consider as URMs and techinically do not belong to this thread.

Again, just because the AAMC or whoever doesn't explicitly say that a certain group is URM, that doesn't mean they're not. Legality doesn't equate to morality (or something like that). If ANY group has a significantly smaller proportion of doctors than the others do, they are underrepresented. Simple as that. Thinking about it this way can sometimes make it an extremely subjective concept, but otherwise we eventually get stuck looking at it as black and white. I'm willing to bet that LGBTs make up a significantly larger proportion of the population compared to the medical profession. It's not all about race. The AAMC can't possibly list all groups that are underrepresented. That's why their definition is so vague now.

 

[MrSosa]

you are right. Underrepresented minority as defined by the American Association of Medical Colleges refers to racial and ethnic minorities in medicine.
So unless lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgendered people are a different race, they are not consider as URMs and techinically do not belong to this thread.

Actually, you are right about the AAMC's definition. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't use that definition to exclude groups, when we know very well that they are underrepresented in the real world.

 

[blkprl]

Well, that's the first time I've ever read a clear explanation of the UMich rulings. Thanks blkprl!

Yeah, I never really understood the whole affirmative action thing myself. After reading some SDNers negative views on the whole issue I decided to dig around and find out for myself...😀

 

[wistarrat]

Actually, you are right about the AAMC's definition. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't use that definition to exclude groups, when we know very well that they are underrepresented in the real world.

My own URM experience: My doc is an out-and-about lesbian. Her patients know it and there are even little checkboxes on her office's doctor-preference form for:
a. I would prefer a lesbian doctor
b. No preference

Now, I was blown away by this. I've never seen this kind of thing for skin color. I've seen it for language, but never ethnicity or skin color. Has anyone else? What do you think about this? If there's an option to preference an African American doctor should there be an option to preference a white doctor?

 

[Hard24Get]

My own URM experience: My doc is an out-and-about lesbian. Her patients know it and there are even little checkboxes on her office's doctor-preference form for:
a. I would prefer a lesbian doctor
b. No preference

Now, I was blown away by this. I've never seen this kind of thing for skin color. I've seen it for language, but never ethnicity or skin color. Has anyone else? What do you think about this? If there's an option to preference an African American doctor should there be an option to preference a white doctor?

Why not? If the idea is for patients to feel more comfortable with their physician, I think it would be nice to have a sex/language/sexual orientation/race check box (with the understanding that there are no guarantees). Not exactly the best thing for integration, but I certainly wouldn't want to walk into a patients room and only then find out they are uncomfortable with me because of my skin color. 😳

Actually, may it should just be, "Do you have any preferences for your primary physician?" and leave a blank space for them to say, "no homophobes" or "no residents", etc.

 

[8744]

Why not? If the idea is for patients to feel more comfortable with their physician, I think it would be nice to have a sex/language/sexual orientation/race check box (with the understanding that there are no guarantees). Not exactly the best thing for integration, but I certainly wouldn't want to walk into a patients room and only then find out they are uncomfortable with me because of my skin color. 😳

Actually, may it should just be, "Do you have any preferences for your primary physician?" and leave a blank space for them to say, "no homophobes" or "no residents", etc.

No. You should stand up for the minority Doctors in your practice. If someone says, "I would prefer a White Doctor" you should say, politely, that every doctor in your practice is qualified to treat patients and if you don't like it we can refer you somewhere else.

You don't have to cater to other people's bigotry. I'm surpised you have to hear this from me.