Failure rate of medical students?

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surfguy84 said:
I particularly like the block style exams...yeah, you study all the time as it is, but you dont have the pressure of an impending exam every week.
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That was the the reason I never bothered going to lecture, had to study for a test every week, and most of the people I saw during lecture on the rare occasions I went were not paying attention, many were goofing off on Facebook or socializing with their friends. AZCOM uses that system because it makes the students more vigilant about medical school and particularly the boards.
 
I think we lost 3 or so our first week. There is 1-2% attrition right there. I can't imagine doing all the work to get there and then giving up before even giving it a chance.
 
Promethean said:
I think we lost 3 or so our first week. There is 1-2% attrition right there. I can't imagine doing all the work to get there and then giving up before even giving it a chance.
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We lost one the day of orientation...apparently someone found out all her pre-reqs were not complete. how this happens...I have no idea.
 
Promethean said:
I think we lost 3 or so our first week. There is 1-2% attrition right there. I can't imagine doing all the work to get there and then giving up before even giving it a chance.
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I don't understand some people, they go through whole process only to make an about face.
 
yanks26dmb said:
We lost one the day of orientation...apparently someone found out all her pre-reqs were not complete. how this happens...I have no idea.
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Ouch!

The one guy in our class just suddenly realized that he already had a degree that would let him make crazy bank, so why did he want to put himself through all this and go in debt to do it?

Another... I can't say exactly what happened there. He always had this deer-in-the-headlights look to him. Like everything was totally bewildering all the time. I don't know if it was his first time out of a really sheltered environment or something worse was going on.
 
Seth Joo said:
I don't understand some people, they go through whole process only to make an about face.
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Honestly, I think a lot of people get addicted (maybe not the right word) to the chase and/or challenge of medical. In reality, they didn't want to be doctors. They wanted to be able to say they accomplished something very difficult; i.e. getting in. Once they are faced with reality, they realize its not what they wanted.
 
yanks26dmb said:
Honestly, I think a lot of people get addicted (maybe not the right word) to the chase and/or challenge of medical. In reality, they didn't want to be doctors. They wanted to be able to say they accomplished something very difficult; i.e. getting in. Once they are faced with reality, they realize its not what they wanted.
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That or parental pressure, its often tiger parents pushing them into something they don't want, but when I see someone jump ship like that I think what a waste.
 
Yanks, how are things going for you now? You had a rocky start as I recall, did fine on your first exam, right?


yanks26dmb said:
Congrats to you. I think there is something to be said for sheer determination and hard work. As mentioned, I have a lot of people with advanced science degrees, coming from prestigious universities, etc. in my class. Sure, maybe it takes me twice as long to learn something as compared to someone "smarter", but I put in my time, I'm consistent, and I remind myself I'm just going to outwork everyone. That's been my approach so far and I'm doing better than the vast majority of those "smarter" people. HOPEFULLY, this formula keeps working...but time will tell.
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Seth Joo said:
AZCOM is particularly the case, most medical schools run on the semester system, AZCOM upped the pressure by using the quarter system, and also having exams every Monday. So as students we never really had a weekend of our own to do anything but study, the first two years of medical school was like a boxing match.
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Like I said, the grass is always greener. I'm in PBL, so to me it feels likely weekly smaller exams would be easier than big block exams (I admit that's likely not true). Students with weekly exams think they'd have more free time if they had block exams (that's not true either). There's pros and cons to both systems, and I feel like just about everyone is envious of the system they're not in.

serenade said:
I mean, true enough. I'm in anatomy atm, so I kinda want to just be asked what a bone is and be done with it and get a cookie.
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From an OMS-II and fellow hater of anatomy, it gets better. I promise.
 
Goro said:
Yanks, how are things going for you now? You had a rocky start as I recall, did fine on your first exam, right?
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Thanks for asking.... my start was more or less consumed with me feeling I wasn't going to be able to cut it and/or compare to those around me. We're a few exams in now and I'm almost a full SD above the mean..so I'm doing pretty good so far! Just hoping I can maintain this level now.
 
Mjolner said:
A bone is the sharp thing that rips you glove if you're not careful (and your lab partner isn't handy with a bone saw) when you're dissecting the mediastinum.
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I will speak to the bones. And learn their secrets!
 
ortnakas said:
Like I said, the grass is always greener. I'm in PBL, so to me it feels likely weekly smaller exams would be easier than big block exams (I admit that's likely not true). Students with weekly exams think they'd have more free time if they had block exams (that's not true either). There's pros and cons to both systems, and I feel like just about everyone is envious of the system they're not in.



From an OMS-II and fellow hater of anatomy, it gets better. I promise.
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Part of me doesn't want to hate it tbh, like I think it helps to know muscles and ****. That being said the entire subject is taught in such a ****ty poorer non-clinical way.

Also I cannot wait to be out of MSK. Like the lack of physiology is a killer.
 
ortnakas said:
Like I said, the grass is always greener. I'm in PBL, so to me it feels likely weekly smaller exams would be easier than big block exams (I admit that's likely not true). Students with weekly exams think they'd have more free time if they had block exams (that's not true either). There's pros and cons to both systems, and I feel like just about everyone is envious of the system they're not in.



From an OMS-II and fellow hater of anatomy, it gets better. I promise.
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Looking in retrospect, I think what AZCOM did was for the best, they made sure a good number of us passed the boards and some of us who struggled, they decelerated and those eventually passed the board exams. Some of other schools have a more hands off approach when it comes to students preparing for the board exams, a friend of mine attends a school that is on a regular semester system and uses block exams, compared to my school, his schedule is not as intense during his first two years, but he has more pressure to pass his boards on his own.
 
Seth Joo said:
Looking in retrospect, I think what AZCOM did was for the best, they made sure a good number of us passed the boards and some of us who struggled, they decelerated and those eventually passed the board exams. Some of other schools have a more hands off approach when it comes to students preparing for the board exams, a friend of mine attends a school that is on a regular semester system and uses block exams, compared to my school, his schedule is not as intense during his first two years, but he has more pressure to pass his boards on his own.
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If I paid the tuition AZCOM asked I would expect the urinals to run on Perrier.
 
serenade said:
Yah, if we had that policy about 30-40% of our class would fail since our tests are generally 'boards' style and pretty hard.

But I'd rather more chill tests over harder ones with a curve.
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We have the 70% requirement in every component/aspects of a course, with board style questions (you can't do good in written anatomy and then fail lab with a 60, but still pass cause your average is over 70%, you must get 70% on both components). So far it seems like about 20% of the class fail any hard course exam. They do adjust somewhat by dropping questions, but a curve is out of the question, and the adjustments haven't significantly improved my grades (gained no more than 4% so far). Supposedly we have lost people already, I have no idea. I just don't want to join them.
 
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HandsomeRob said:
We have the 70% requirement in every component/aspects of a course, with board style questions (you can't do good in written anatomy and then fail lab with a 60, you must get 70% on both). So far it seems like about 20% of the class fail any hard course exam. They do adjust somewhat by dropping questions, but a curve is out of the question. Supposedly we have lost people already, I have no idea. I just don't want to join them.
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I think we have the same thing. We have to pass practicals, OMM tests, etc with a 70 above on each one. But for our regular classes if you go under a 70% with the curve you need to go to education and etc.
 
serenade said:
I think we have the same thing. We have to pass practicals, OMM tests, etc with a 70 above on each one. But for our regular classes if you go under a 70% with the curve you need to go to education and etc.
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Yeah they do give you a tutor if you drop below 70 (for first year), but honestly its more exhausting than I thought trying to make sure every component is that high. One bad exam and your back is against the wall, and its incredibly easy to drop one with the board style questions on difficult topics. Its tiring for sure.
 
HandsomeRob said:
Yeah they do give you a tutor if you drop below 70 (for first year), but honestly its more exhausting than I thought trying to make sure every component is that high. One bad exam and your back is against the wall, and its incredibly easy to drop one with the board style questions on difficult topics. Its tiring for sure.
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I think in general medical school is as a whole tiring. I mean, I do well, but I don't think i'll ever really have a semblance of safety or calm until the end of second year.
 
serenade said:
I think in general medical school is as a whole tiring. I mean, I do well, but I don't think i'll ever really have a semblance of safety or calm until the end of second year.
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Actually the third year can be rough on people, its your first year of clinical education and the whole paradigm has shifted from classroom to actual practical learning. Also you do not see many of your friends and professors at that point, so it becomes a lonely time in school.
 
Our school lost 20-25, we started with around 115...so yea
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
Like COCA is going to care 🙄
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Its not unheard for some schools to have greater than 10 percent attrition, particularly newer schools that might take less competitive applicants. COCA is nothing like the LCME.

A few years ago my school doubled its class size to 250 students in one year and they never said a thing.
 
Goro said:
You should see how they got on our case simply for not having enough study space for students.
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That's interesting. I just don't like how lax they are with the proliferation of DO schools.
 
Ibn Alnafis MD said:
That's interesting. I just don't like how lax they are with the proliferation of DO schools.
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Well they cannot keep building new schools constantly, eventually there is going to a be a saturation point.
 
Seth Joo said:
Well they cannot keep building new schools constantly, eventually there is going to a be a saturation point.
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We're still the only career where almost every single person can make $200k...we have awhile
 
sb247 said:
We're still the only career where almost every single person can make $200k...we have awhile
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As far as 200k for every single doctor, not even close, many cities are saturated with physicians, I know in Boston many primary care doctors earn less than that. You also have to consider student loan payments as that is not tax deductible and takes off a massive amount of one's income.

Other big cities are similar, the only way most primary care doctors earn more than 200k is if they are working long hours.
 
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Seth Joo said:
As far as 200k for every single doctor, not even close, many cities are saturated with physicians, I know in Boston many primary care doctors earn less than that. You also have to consider student loan payments as that is not tax deductible and takes off a massive amount of one's income.

Other big cities are similar, the only way most primary care doctors earn more than 200k is if they are working long hours.
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I didn't say you can make it in every zip code....I said every can make it, and yes even family docs can make 200k pretty easily as long as they are geography flexible without working extra hours
 
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