Failure rate of medical students?

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200k becomes 100k when you take taxes and loan repayment into account; however, 100k is more than what most people take home. Then again, physicians are not like most people when you consider the grueling training they go thru...

It's time for primary care to be better compensated... We have an antiqauted reimbursement system where procedural specialties do very well while PCP are struggling to keep their lights on... Who the f*** came up with that reimbursement scheme?
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W19 said:
200k becomes 100k when you take taxes and loan repayment into account; however, 100k is more than what most people take home. Then again, physicians are not like most people when you consider the grueling training they go thru...

It's time for primary care to be better compensated... We have an antiqauted reimbursement system where procedural specialties do very well while PCP are struggling to keep their lights on... Who the f*** came up with that reimbursement scheme?
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The medboard that makes rvu suggestions is stacked heavy with surgeons....sounds like I'm joking, but it's that simple
 
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W19 said:
200k becomes 100k when you take taxes and loan repayment into account; however, 100k is more than what most people take home. Then again, physicians are not like most people when you consider the grueling training they go thru...

It's time for primary care to be better compensated... We have an antiqauted reimbursement system where procedural specialties do very well while PCP are struggling to keep their lights on... Who the f*** came up with that reimbursement scheme?
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Most of us who are DOs are going to be primary care physicians and we have some of highest debt burdens of any medical student. Its not uncommon for many people these days to leave school with 300k+ in debt, so when you think someone can touch 200k in earnings its really not a lot considering the mountain of debt most students have after graduating medical school, this is one of the reasons why so many want to pursue specialties because of better remuneration. Given the endless expansion of DO schools, that is going to get harder for many students.
 
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Seth Joo said:
Most of us who are DOs are going to be primary care physicians and we have some of highest debt burdens of any medical student. Its not uncommon for many people these days to leave school with 300k+ in debt, so when you think someone can touch 200k in earnings its really not a lot considering the mountain of debt most students have after graduating medical school, this is one of the reasons why so many want to pursue specialties because of better remuneration. Given the endless expansion of DO schools, that is going to get harder for many students.
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Theres no reason a primary care doc couldn't work his/her way to 275 a year..even if they're based in the very low 200s...which after taxes is like 185k. Knock off another 36k a year for loans and you're living on 12.4k a month take home.

To put things in perspective, that's enough for a million dollar home, benz in the driveway, >25% take home pay to savings (without even considering 401k), etc... if those are the things you value of course...bottomline, even the primary care docs shouldn't be struggling.
 
W19 said:
200k becomes 100k when you take taxes and loan repayment into account; however, 100k is more than what most people take home. Then again, physicians are not like most people when you consider the grueling training they go thru...

It's time for primary care to be better compensated... We have an antiqauted reimbursement system where procedural specialties do very well while PCP are struggling to keep their lights on... Who the f*** came up with that reimbursement scheme?
Click to expand...

You clearly have the right idea about primary care medicine and its financial potential, its the reason why so many MD students shun primary care for specialties.
 
W19 said:
Can't blame these students.
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For most of us who are DOs, we will have to settle for primary care, and with more DO schools opening, I think the days of getting into harder specialties will eventually end. There was a reason there used to a be a surplus of residencies, the less desirable fields went to IMG/FMGs.

FMs in major cities who make over 200k are providing extra services or have good business skills.
 
Seth Joo said:
For most of us who are DOs, we will have to settle for primary care, and with more DO schools opening, I think the days of getting into harder specialties will eventually end. There was a reason there used to a be a surplus of residencies, the less desirable fields went to IMG/FMGs.
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Some of these people work ~60 hrs/wk... My cousin make 350+k/year as a IM doc in a suburb close to a major city...He works 50+ hr/wk. He does not pay rent for his clinic since he owns the place outright... That probably add 60k to his salary...
 
W19 said:
Some of these people work ~60 hrs/wk... My cousin make 350+k/year as a IM doc in a suburb close to a major city...He works 50+ hr/wk. He does not pay rent for his clinic since he owns the place outright... That probably add 60k to his salary...
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That is what I figured, its not the 35 hour 9 to 5 work week, 60 hours a week is a lot of hours, if you get into your office at 8AM you leave at 8PM, assuming you work 5 days a week.
 
Seth Joo said:
That is what I figured, its not the 35 hour 9 to 5 work week, 60 hours a week is a lot of hours, if you get into your office at 8AM you leave at 8PM, assuming you work 5 days a week.
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They can work 9-5pm M-F and moonlight on weekend... I don't see how a PCP can make 250k+ in a major city working 40 hrs/wk... Another thing they can do to supplement their salary is to take on a medical directorship at a nursing home... That can add another 60k+ to your income if you don't mind LPN calling you in the middle of the night asking for order to give tylenol.:(
 
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Seth Joo said:
That is what I figured, its not the 35 hour 9 to 5 work week, 60 hours a week is a lot of hours, if you get into your office at 8AM you leave at 8PM, assuming you work 5 days a week.
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My PCP makes about 400-500k a year. He works 45 hours a week and a Saturday once a month.

I've seen and known enough physicians to know that it is possible if you want to make as much money as you desire. It's an issue of choosing what you want to do. I mean, in either case making 200k a year working 50 hours a week isn't horrible in my opinion. I know people who work 80 for 100k doing a job they know they'll burn out of. If I'm working 50 and doing something I enjoy then it's all good.
 
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W19 said:
They can work 9-5pm M-F and moonlight on weekend... I don't see how a PCP can make 250k+ in a major city working 40 hrs/wk... Another thing they can do to supplement their salary is to take on a medical directorship at a nursing home... That can add another 60k+ to your income if you don't mind LPN calling you in the middle of the night asking for order to give tylenol.:(
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You acquire a niche.
 
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serenade said:
My PCP makes about 400-500k a year. He works 45 hours a week and a Saturday once a month.

I've seen and known enough physicians to know that it is possible if you want to make as much money as you desire. It's an issue of choosing what you want to do. I mean, in either case making 200k a year working 50 hours a week isn't horrible in my opinion. I know people who work 80 for 100k doing a job they know they'll burn out of. If I'm working 50 and doing something I enjoy then it's all good.
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Well that definitely is not the typical income. According to this source the average FM earns a little under 200k.
http://www.aafp.org/news/practice-professional-issues/20150513salaryreport.html

And that is not a lot of money when you consider student loan payments and taxes will cut that take home into half of that at minimum.
 
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Seth Joo said:
Well that definitely is not the typical income. According to this source the average FM earns a little under 200k.
http://www.aafp.org/news/practice-professional-issues/20150513salaryreport.html

And that is not a lot of money when you consider student loan payments and taxes will cut that take home into half of that at minimum.
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I think my point was to say that a FM doctor can earn as much as he wants if he takes opportunities to earn and develops a niche. Yes, the average FM doctor makes ~200k, but that doesn't mean you'll earn that low if you desire more. But it also is an acknowledgement that even then that's not an especially low pay.
 
@Seth Joo If you want to become a PCP, don't worry too much about pay now... What serenade said is essentially correct; you can make 300k+/year as a PCP without killing yourself.
 
Seth Joo said:
For most of us who are DOs, we will have to settle for primary care, and with more DO schools opening, I think the days of getting into harder specialties will eventually end. There was a reason there used to a be a surplus of residencies, the less desirable fields went to IMG/FMGs.

FMs in major cities who make over 200k are providing extra services or have good business skills.
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Any DO with good board scores will easily get gas/em/pmr/obgyn/psych. Path/radiology/optho very doable. Plenty of attainable subspecialties from im/peds. Even fm docs can do some non extra stuff like abortions/sports medicine/ob care.

DOs are doing better with getting into specialties not worse. You just got to do well
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Any DO with good board scores will easily get gas/em/pmr/obgyn/psych. Path/radiology/optho very doable. Plenty of attainable subspecialties from im/peds. Even fm docs can do some non extra stuff like abortions/sports medicine/ob care.

DOs are doing better with getting into specialties not worse. You just got to do well
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Right now I believe that is true, but you have to work harder than an MD to get the same residency. With more new schools and stagnant residency growth, in the future it will get harder.
 
A couple of things to consider on choosing schools:

(1) How many strikes before you're dismissed? Some DO schools, if you fail two classes (or 3 classes at another school), you're out. No questions asked. Out. That is not the case with MD schools.
(2) Do they let you repeat the year if you do fail first year? Some schools won't.
(3) Do they grant leaves of absence? I was a 1st year when I became ill and didn't have a firm diagnosis. I was denied a LoA because it wasn't deemed an "emergency" regardless of a note and lab results from my doctor. It took 6 months, declining health, and failing grades to finally get my LoA.

All those statistics are nonsense. What do you care if only 3% fail out if you happen to be one of the 3%? Protect yourself before you get in.

Oh and to the person who said failing out is a voluntary act, you have no clue what you're talking about. Period.
 
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Mass Effect said:
A couple of things to consider on choosing schools:

(1) How many strikes before you're dismissed? Some DO schools, if you fail two classes (or 3 classes at another school), you're out. No questions asked. Out. That is not the case with MD schools.
(2) Do they let you repeat the year if you do fail first year? Some schools won't.
(3) Do they grant leaves of absence? I was a 1st year when I became ill and didn't have a firm diagnosis. I was denied a LoA because it wasn't deemed an "emergency" regardless of a note and lab results from my doctor. It took 6 months, declining health, and failing grades to finally get my LoA.

All those statistics are nonsense. What do you care if only 3% fail out if you happen to be one of the 3%? Protect yourself before you get in.

Oh and to the person who said failing out is a voluntary act, you have no clue what you're talking about. Period.
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Just wondering, but what's the best way to find out this kind of information beforehand? I don't think schools list these kinds of details on their website. Do I just email them and ask?
 
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GUH said:
Only 4 representing primary care (5 if you include the ACP even though many internists do not practice primary care) out of 31 by my count.
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Not surprising that the procedural guys put a bigger RVU on procedures (whether they be surgical or colonoscopy)
 
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