Farewell, Dr. Dull

[BLADEMDA]

IMHo, the framers of our Constitution were brilliant men. Sure, they were flawed men and even slave owners but the concept of the electoral college was/is a brilliant idea that has stood the test of time. I hope we keep it as the EC gives voice to the people while valuing individual states rights. North Daktoa, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montanta, etc all deserve a real voice in our republic not just those on the East and West Coasts.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Noyac]

The views or society don’t change just because we wish it too. It takes generations to change. It always amazes me when people think their views (both sides of this case) should be understood and agreed with by everyone around them. It doesn’t work that way. People on both sides of the debate are stomping their feet as if they demand the other side agree with them. And they will do anything to ruin the other party.

Just think how boring this place would be if we all agreed and were exactly the same.

 

[deleted171991]

Oh, no. However, I don't recall the left was as angry as it has been for the past two-point-some-odd years.

Hint: Occupy Wall Street.

Both sides have been angry (and dumb) for a while.

 

[EMhawkeye]

Contrary to the liberal agenda which is pervasive on SDN there are many "conservatives" in Medicine who feel like Dr. Dull but they are smart enough to keep those thoughts and beliefs to themselves. Dr. Dull made major errors in judgment writing that letter and treating any member of his department in a demeaning matter due to sexual orientation. In fact, those that I know with similar beliefs to Dr. Dull bend over backwards at work to never appear biased or demeaning to any "oppressed" group. Typically, that means those individuals receive better treatment than their peers. So, Dr. Dull is not the norm by any means because most conservatives know how they will be perceived by the media and the left in this country.
Dr. Dull is a living example that those conservative beliefs from just 2 decades ago are no longer tolerated by the liberal media and any expression of such beliefs will likely be career suicide.

Don’t try to pain his beliefs as just “good old conservative values”. It’s like saying the Klan are just a group of conservative christians.

 

[deleted171991]

Don’t try to pain his beliefs as just “good old conservative values”. It’s like saying the Klan are just a group of conservative christians.

Nope. It's like having said that 150 years ago.

What Dull wrote would have been just fine in many civilized circles even just 20-30 years ago. Btw, I'm not defending the guy, just explaining that there are many-many millions of Americans who feel like him and show it only by voting for Trump. That's why they also lie in the polls.

As much as young people like to live in Utopia, in real life, fast modernization of what has been traditional is usually bad. VERY bad for ANY society.

Most people have their likes and dislikes, even young people. Just because the latter think they have better utopic rationalizations, it doesn't make them (more) right. Hating the gays and hating the rich or whites or males are not THAT much different, even if some are more PC (as defined by some other mighty haters).

 

[Hork Bajir]

...Yes, many people hold bigoted/racist/homophobic beliefs. Not sure that this will come as a surprise to anyone who doesn’t live in a cave.

People also evolve. I’ve believed, said, and done some things in my youth that I’m not very proud of. My belief system has changed with time. If someone called me out on some sh** I said 15 or 20 years ago, I’d apologize, swallow my pride, and try to have a productive conversation. So far I’ve seen no indication that Dr Dull’s views have evolved on the issues in question

 

[vector2]

I think we're engaging in a little too much revisionism of what 2004 was like. Hell, the film Philadelphia came out in 1993. By the mid to late 90s, it was still ok to treat gays like second class citizens, but even at that time it wasn't ok to write flat-out hateful editorials. By the early 00s when I was starting college (in a red state), most younger people who would've never dreamed of coming out 10 yrs prior felt comfortable doing so. Dr. Dull was as much a bigot in 2004 as he is now.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I think we're engaging in a little too much revisionism of what 2004 was like. Hell, the film Philadelphia came out in 1993. By the mid to late 90s, it was still ok to treat gays like second class citizens, but even at that time it wasn't ok to write flat-out hateful editorials. By the early 00s when I was starting college (in a red state), most younger people who would've never dreamed of coming out 10 yrs prior felt comfortable doing so. Dr. Dull was as much a bigot in 2004 as he is now.

But, the majority of U.S. Citizens have "evolved" on this issue. Dr. Dull simply didn't change with the times. I agree that by 2004 the majority of conservatives had evolved their thinking on this issue to the point that hate and animosity towards the gay community had changed significantly. But, IMHO, that majority in 2004 viewed the gay lifestyle as one that was best left for private expression rather than outright public display.

The socially acceptable "norm" has come a long way since 2004 and Dr. Dull should have recognized this fact when interacting with colleagues at his medical center. I can tell you that over the past 5 years the tolerance for any discriminatory behavior has never been lower in my lifetime. I hope that Dr. Dull and others like him will learn from this experience.

 

[BLADEMDA]

https://www.people-press.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/06/1_21.png

President Obama's position on Gay Marriage "evolved" from 2007 to 2012 as did many Americans.

 

[deleted171991]

I think we're engaging in a little too much revisionism of what 2004 was like. Hell, the film Philadelphia came out in 1993. By the mid to late 90s, it was still ok to treat gays like second class citizens, but even at that time it wasn't ok to write flat-out hateful editorials. By the early 00s when I was starting college (in a red state), most younger people who would've never dreamed of coming out 10 yrs prior felt comfortable doing so. Dr. Dull was as much a bigot in 2004 as he is now.

Given the last elections, given the lack of diversity in many rural areas, I would say you are quite optimistic about them.

Food for thought: How come the letter was published, if that place was already so tolerant?

 

[nimbus]

Given the last elections, given the lack of diversity in many rural areas, I would say you are quite optimistic about them.

Food for thought: How come the letter was published, if that place was already so tolerant?

The letter was referencing the Queer Lounge at the Sundance Film Festival in Park City. I have spent quite a bit of time there and it is not a rural small town. I have a friend who lives there year round and several who own vacation homes there (including a gay couple). The town was quite progressive in 2004 and still is. It is probably the bluest area in all of Utah.

 

[vector2]

But, the majority of U.S. Citizens have "evolved" on this issue. Dr. Dull simply didn't change with the times. I agree that by 2004 the majority of conservatives had evolved their thinking on this issue to the point that hate and animosity towards the gay community had changed significantly. But, IMHO, that majority in 2004 viewed the gay lifestyle as one that was best left for private expression rather than outright public display.

The socially acceptable "norm" has come a long way since 2004 and Dr. Dull should have recognized this fact when interacting with colleagues at his medical center. I can tell you that over the past 5 years the tolerance for any discriminatory behavior has never been lower in my lifetime. I hope that Dr. Dull and others like him will learn from this experience.

There's a big difference between someone in 2004 expressing his personal opinion that he is not in favor of gay marriage because of moral or religious reasons and someone in 2004 writing his best impression of Mein Kampf v2 (the gay edition) in a published op-ed:

"Good people have allowed themselves to be deceived by the brainwashing use of words like "tolerance" and "diversity" -- which are nothing more than polite ways of asking us to abandon our principles. Regrettably, we seem to have obliged. Those who wish to undermine the Christian heritage of our country do so to destroy the only real resistance to this open promotion of perversion and radical liberalism. Unfortunately, the perverts are winning the war because the good people have VOLUNTARILY been silenced!

Inch by inch we are losing ground to the moral degenerates who promote their perversion as an auspice of "freedom" -- but we must not allow ourselves to be fooled by such nonsense..."

 

[vector2]

https://www.people-press.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/06/1_21.png

President Obama's position on Gay Marriage "evolved" from 2007 to 2012 as did many Americans.

Woah, but I thought Obama was so far to the left he was the second coming of Stalin? I wonder if it's possible that he was just a milquetoast, corporate sponsored, center-left liberal who in actuality tried compromising but ultimately just ended up disappointing the left and the right

 

[lymphocyte]

But, the majority of U.S. Citizens have "evolved" on this issue. Dr. Dull simply didn't change with the times. I agree that by 2004 the majority of conservatives had evolved their thinking on this issue to the point that hate and animosity towards the gay community had changed significantly. But, IMHO, that majority in 2004 viewed the gay lifestyle as one that was best left for private expression rather than outright public display.

The socially acceptable "norm" has come a long way since 2004 and Dr. Dull should have recognized this fact when interacting with colleagues at his medical center. I can tell you that over the past 5 years the tolerance for any discriminatory behavior has never been lower in my lifetime. I hope that Dr. Dull and others like him will learn from this experience.

I will direct this post to you. I think his behaviour is very far from just not "changing with the times."

Reading the article, this guy sounds mean, vindictive, and frankly toxic. Personalities like that ruin departments and other people's careers long before they're asked to account for their own behaviour. I'm really struggling to see how anybody could justify his actions regardless of his political agenda. See the quotes below.

I feel very lucky not to have felt much discrimination in my life but I imagine it feels like what Dr Kleinman describes -- "I didn't understand what I had done." That's one reason discrimination is so destructive; it can be invisible even to the victims -- so good luck trying to get other people to believe you when you finally figure out what's been done to you, and why.

I hope Dr Dull gets help at least for the sake of the people around him. I feel awful for the people he's mistreated. And I feel disgusted that some are trying to make him into some kind of true-believing conservative martyr instead of what he really seems to be: an awful bully.

Finally, if conservatism is about respect for institutions and abhorrence of upheaval, there have been no real conservatives since George HW Bush. It's essentially a dead political legacy in the United States. It's basically liberals vs super-liberals. And I would consider Trump to be the mother of all liberals.

"Dr. Gabriel Kleinman, who worked under Dull as an anesthesiologist at the UA, said he left his job because of the way Dull treated him at work. Kleinman, who is gay, said Dull treated him with hostility. Kleinman said his sexual orientation was common knowledge to everyone in the department.

“It made me really sad, but it made me understand his behavior,” he said about the 2004 letter to the editor. “It didn’t ever make sense to me why he was so mean to me and unpleasant and distrusting, and I didn’t really understand what I had done, but this helped me to understand.”

According to Kleinman, Dull would yell at him and other colleagues “like toddlers” and was not a collaborative leader, often dismissing their concerns and talking to subordinates in a degrading fashion."

 

[deleted171991]

“It made me really sad, but it made me understand his behavior,” he said about the 2004 letter to the editor. “It didn’t ever make sense to me why he was so mean to me and unpleasant and distrusting, and I didn’t really understand what I had done, but this helped me to understand.”

According to Kleinman, Dull would yell at him and other colleagues “like toddlers” and was not a collaborative leader, often dismissing their concerns and talking to subordinates in a degrading fashion."

You've just described one of my bosses, the kind of guy who'd do anything to keep the surgeons happy and avoid bad PR. The anesthesia and surgical world is full of them, so don't be surprised when you meet one, more likely in the passive-aggressive form, now that PC has banned straight talk in the workplace.

Again, not defending the bigot. Just saying that PC is purely symptomatic treatment which won't fix anything. Maybe time will...

 

[Planktonmd]

Bigotry is not going away because it's based on ignorance which is alive and well. People are getting inferior education today than they did 20 years ago and there is nothing indicating that this decline is going to stop.
So, we should expect increased racism, bigotry, white nationalism, and hate based on xenophobia in general.

 

[vector2]

Please. Define for me what white nationalism means to you. In your words. Your definition. Thank you.

Why would I use my words when white nationalists' own words get their point across much better

 

[Planktonmd]

Please. Define for me what white nationalism means to you. In your words. Your definition. Thank you.

Another name for white supremacists?

 

[deleted162650]

Just saying that PC is purely symptomatic treatment which won't fix anything.

I agree it's getting outta hand. Here in CA, where we've had a dramatic uptick in Great White Shark sightings, we are now forced to refer to them as "privileged caucasian sharks."

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Saw this on reddit a day or two ago. Not sure how accurate the data used for the chart is.

 

[deleted500612]

The so-called deplorables voted for trump because they think being called a bigot is worse than being an honest-to-god, actual bigot.

If you don't want people to think you're a bigot, then don't vote or cheerlead for someone who propagated housing discrimination against blacks in the 70s, called for the death of the central park 5, championed the birther movement, called Mexicans criminals, drug dealers, and rapists, said there were many good people on both sides of a white supremacist march, faked an accent to mock the PMs of South Korea and Japan at a fundraiser, told US citizen Congresswomen of color to go back where they came from, and is actively trying to get LGBTQ people out of the military.

Also, let's be very clear- the polls did reflect a +3 million vote margin for HRC. It's the electoral college which failed to to reflect the will of the people.

I'd rather vote for an abrasive narcissist with at least somewhat sane policies than a composed diplomat who peddles far left socialism and caters to every absurd whim of the regressive left. If you're voting for someone because you think "they're a nice guy" rather than based on the direction they are taking the entire economy of the country then you're getting this whole election thing very wrong. You aren't voting for who you want to be pals with, you're voting for policy. If your only two choices are someone who openly campaigns on 70%+ income tax brackets and free everything for everyone including illegals with unlimited open-border migration (aka most of the leading democratic candidates this election cycle) or a guy who is running a successful economy but is a bit of a tactless dick and you'd take the former because you're offended, then again... you're doing it wrong.

 

[vector2]

I'd rather vote for an abrasive narcissist with at least somewhat sane policies than a composed diplomat who peddles far left socialism and caters to every absurd whim of the regressive left. If you're voting for someone because you think "they're a nice guy" rather than based on the direction they are taking the entire economy of the country then you're getting this whole election thing very wrong. You aren't voting for who you want to be pals with, you're voting for policy. If your only two choices are someone who openly campaigns on 70%+ income tax brackets and free everything for everyone including illegals with unlimited open-border migration (aka most of the leading democratic candidates this election cycle) or a guy who is running a successful economy but is a bit of a tactless dick and you'd take the former because you're offended, then again... you're doing it wrong.

As per the every round of polls so far, Biden is still leading the field, and as far as I can tell he's not for a 70% top marginal rate, open borders, unchecked illegal immigration, or single payer. The rest of the dem field is just like every other presidential candidate ever- pander to the base and then move to the middle for the general.

And lest we forget, the last two democratic presidents have both overseen significant economic expansions while coming out of an inherited recession/economic downturn. You have a current president who inherited a decent economy, juiced it with a tax cut which barely benefited anyone who works for a living, and on some level he is trying to sabotage the economy by being pro-tariff and anti-free trade. My view has nothing to do with anything as naive as who I'd rather be pals with. I genuinely believe Trump is a dangerous, unstable, uneducated fool who has/will cause great damage (to the US and the rest of the world). At the very least just be honest with yourself- you'd vote for the sociopath conservative over the moderate liberal if it meant your marginal rate would go down 5% vs up 5%.

 

[epidural man]

First thing - we all could use more Jonathon Haight philosophies in our heads.

A good start is listening to his interview on Joe Rogan a while back. HE also is on ArmChair Expert.

Second, I don't understand why good, no..., GREAT candidates are always so shunned. They ALWAYS are. YANG is really amazing (and if you don't think so...try reading about 75 of his policies on his website which is less than half that he has written about and then try to tell me he isn't an incredibly smart, data driven guy). Tulsi says wonderful things. I really like them both.

I guess my real point is how come I am always so far off the main stream? Why do things that seem SO CLEAR to me never resonate with hardly anyone? I must be strange.

For example, I was in a Smash Burger the other day. This is my favorite fast casual restaurant. The Spicy BAJA with a black bean patty is amazing. It has fresh jalapeños (not the pickled kind like EVERY OTHER RESTAURANT), fresh avocado and onion, etc. The smash fries taste wonderful. The milk shakes are made with real hagen dazs ice cream (try the salted carmel). And NO ONE was in this place. There never is ANYONE in this place -yet IN-N-OUT is packed constantly. The choice is super clear to me - but to no one else.

And so it goes.....

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

First thing - we all could use more Jonathon Haight philosophies in our heads.

A good start is listening to his interview on Joe Rogan a while back. HE also is on ArmChair Expert.

Second, I don't understand why good, no..., GREAT candidates are always so shunned. They ALWAYS are. YANG is really amazing (and if you don't think so...try reading about 75 of his policies on his website which is less than half that he has written about and then try to tell me he isn't an incredibly smart, data driven guy). Tulsi says wonderful things. I really like them both.

I guess my real point is how come I am always so far off the main stream? Why do things that seem SO CLEAR to me never resonate with hardly anyone? I must be strange.

For example, I was in a Smash Burger the other day. This is my favorite fast casual restaurant. The Spicy BAJA with a black bean patty is amazing. It has fresh jalapeños (not the pickled kind like EVERY OTHER RESTAURANT), fresh avocado and onion, etc. The smash fries taste wonderful. The milk shakes are made with real hagen dazs ice cream (try the salted carmel). And NO ONE was in this place. There never is ANYONE in this place -yet IN-N-OUT is packed constantly. The choice is super clear to me - but to no one else.

And so it goes.....

For the sake of argument, you CAN get fresh jalapeños at Five Guys. Aside from that, I completely agree with the above post. Will read up on Jonathan Haidt. Thanks

 

[pgg]

For the sake of argument, you CAN get fresh jalapeños at Five Guys.

Five Guys is pretty tasty, but a $17 fast-food burger ought to be.

Speaking of food, what I can't understand is why, given this allegedly crazy horrible immigration crisis overrunning the southern border, none of these Mexicans are selling tacos east of the Mississippi. There are plenty of trendy little joints selling artisan "street tacos" but they all suck. Don't they know taco trucks can roll east over bridges?

 

[narcotics999]

First thing - we all could use more Jonathon Haight philosophies in our heads.

A good start is listening to his interview on Joe Rogan a while back. HE also is on ArmChair Expert.

Second, I don't understand why good, no..., GREAT candidates are always so shunned. They ALWAYS are. YANG is really amazing (and if you don't think so...try reading about 75 of his policies on his website which is less than half that he has written about and then try to tell me he isn't an incredibly smart, data driven guy). Tulsi says wonderful things. I really like them both.

I guess my real point is how come I am always so far off the main stream? Why do things that seem SO CLEAR to me never resonate with hardly anyone? I must be strange.

For example, I was in a Smash Burger the other day. This is my favorite fast casual restaurant. The Spicy BAJA with a black bean patty is amazing. It has fresh jalapeños (not the pickled kind like EVERY OTHER RESTAURANT), fresh avocado and onion, etc. The smash fries taste wonderful. The milk shakes are made with real hagen dazs ice cream (try the salted carmel). And NO ONE was in this place. There never is ANYONE in this place -yet IN-N-OUT is packed constantly. The choice is super clear to me - but to no one else.

And so it goes.....

I am going to try a smash Burger.

 

[nimbus]

I am going to try a smash Burger.

The beef patties are too salty for my taste and the bun is too small for the patty. Never tried the bean patty. Burger Lounge is my go to.

 

[epidural man]

Five Guys is pretty tasty, but a $17 fast-food burger ought to be.

Speaking of food, what I can't understand is why, given this allegedly crazy horrible immigration crisis overrunning the southern border, none of these Mexicans are selling tacos east of the Mississippi. There are plenty of trendy little joints selling artisan "street tacos" but they all suck. Don't they know taco trucks can roll east over bridges?

I like how five guys publish where they got the potatoes. I’ve from Idaho so it’s fun to see my hometown on occasion.

 

[abolt18]

First thing - we all could use more Jonathon Haight philosophies in our heads.

A good start is listening to his interview on Joe Rogan a while back. HE also is on ArmChair Expert.

Second, I don't understand why good, no..., GREAT candidates are always so shunned. They ALWAYS are. YANG is really amazing (and if you don't think so...try reading about 75 of his policies on his website which is less than half that he has written about and then try to tell me he isn't an incredibly smart, data driven guy). Tulsi says wonderful things. I really like them both.

I guess my real point is how come I am always so far off the main stream? Why do things that seem SO CLEAR to me never resonate with hardly anyone? I must be strange.

For example, I was in a Smash Burger the other day. This is my favorite fast casual restaurant. The Spicy BAJA with a black bean patty is amazing. It has fresh jalapeños (not the pickled kind like EVERY OTHER RESTAURANT), fresh avocado and onion, etc. The smash fries taste wonderful. The milk shakes are made with real hagen dazs ice cream (try the salted carmel). And NO ONE was in this place. There never is ANYONE in this place -yet IN-N-OUT is packed constantly. The choice is super clear to me - but to no one else.

And so it goes.....

I love smash Burger. Same issue here. Was always empty. They just closed it down a few months ago! Five guys is still my fav. I get the small cheeseburger with everything (yes, EVERYTHING, all the red and all the black) on it. Add some Cajun fries in the side. Boom you're golden.

 

[deleted162650]

yet IN-N-OUT is packed constantly.

It’s hard to beat the $:goodness ratio at In-n-Out. It’s crazy cheap.

 

[deleted162650]

Don't they know taco trucks can roll east over bridges?

Apparently they can only roll North over borders.

 

[deleted162650]

I kid, I kid.

 

[Ronin786]

I love smash Burger. Same issue here. Was always empty. They just closed it down a few months ago! Five guys is still my fav. I get the small cheeseburger with everything (yes, EVERYTHING, all the red and all the black) on it. Add some Cajun fries in the side. Boom you're golden.

Five Guys would be hands down the best burger out there if they'd ever discover salt.

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

IN-N-OUT is basic in every sense of the word, but there are definitely times when animal style fries are the solution to my problems.

Five guys is pretty good, but yeah, for the price, it seems like it could be done correctly, at home, with Worcestershire sauce in the patty, and grilled with mesquite.

I will for sure try Smashburger.

Thanks, I have once again found this forum educational.

 

[pgg]

Apparently they can only roll North over borders.

Sometimes I hate the east coast

I just ordered some ceviche and carnitas "street" tacos at a sorta promising new place and got boiled shrimp and tacos without cilantro or onions

 

[odyssey2]

Contrary to the liberal agenda which is pervasive on SDN there are many "conservatives" in Medicine who feel like Dr. Dull but they are smart enough to keep those thoughts and beliefs to themselves. Dr. Dull made major errors in judgment writing that letter and treating any member of his department in a demeaning matter due to sexual orientation. In fact, those that I know with similar beliefs to Dr. Dull bend over backwards at work to never appear biased or demeaning to any "oppressed" group. Typically, that means those individuals receive better treatment than their peers. So, Dr. Dull is not the norm by any means because most conservatives know how they will be perceived by the media and the left in this country.
Dr. Dull is a living example that those conservative beliefs from just 2 decades ago are no longer tolerated by the liberal media and any expression of such beliefs will likely be career suicide.

The idea that gay people get better treatment because people are afraid to offend them is bull, even in medicine. Perhaps medical professionals are extra polite to their faces, but I know of several circumstance where gay people were passed over for research or residency positions because they were known, or even just suspected, to be gay. Not wanting to "appear" biased or demeaning is not the same as extending special treatment to a marginalized group.

 

[drmwvr]

I think we're engaging in a little too much revisionism of what 2004 was like. Hell, the film Philadelphia came out in 1993. By the mid to late 90s, it was still ok to treat gays like second class citizens, but even at that time it wasn't ok to write flat-out hateful editorials. By the early 00s when I was starting college (in a red state), most younger people who would've never dreamed of coming out 10 yrs prior felt comfortable doing so. Dr. Dull was as much a bigot in 2004 as he is now.

In the 80's and 90's in New York and San Francisco, the Gay culture was a caricature. There were no serious attempts at "mainstreaming", in fact that culture conspicuously and provocatively rejected the norms and values it so dearly claims today. That was less than a generation ago and the failure of that strategy became painfully apparent. The Pride Ideology still exists, which is unfortunate for the sincere individuals that want to live their lives with dignity and integrity but are involuntarily aligned with the absurd agendas of transgenderism and the emerging interests in mainstreaming pederasty.

So groups cloaking themselves in the nobility of the virtuous charity of the inclusiveness of today in order to demonstrate how much more sophisticated they are as compared to the knuckle dragging mouth breathers of 30 years ago cause me go giggle.

The change attitude of today is secondary to a change in strategy. We can't remember the last mass murder let alone a cultural juggernaut of a generation ago. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe the movement has matured. But to suggest that the treatment the Gay agenda recieved in the 80's and 90's was somehow surprising is naive at best. Late night TV of the time would be considered appalling today and it isn't that we're so much more woke now than they were then.

 

[nimbus]

In the 80's and 90's in New York and San Francisco, the Gay culture was a caricature. There were no serious attempts at "mainstreaming", in fact that culture conspicuously and provocatively rejected the norms and values it so dearly claims today. That was less than a generation ago and the failure of that strategy became painfully apparent. The Pride Ideology still exists, which is unfortunate for the sincere individuals that want to live their lives with dignity and integrity but are involuntarily aligned with the absurd agendas of transgenderism and the emerging interests in mainstreaming pederasty.

So groups cloaking themselves in the nobility of the virtuous charity of the inclusiveness of today in order to demonstrate how much more sophisticated they are as compared to the knuckle dragging mouth breathers of 30 years ago cause me go giggle.

The change attitude of today is secondary to a change in strategy. We can't remember the last mass murder let alone a cultural juggernaut of a generation ago. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe the movement has matured. But to suggest that the treatment the Gay agenda recieved in the 80's and 90's was somehow surprising is naive at best. Late night TV of the time would be considered appalling today and it isn't that we're so much more woke now than they were then.

Clearly you weren’t there. Totally clueless. I remember at least a dozen medical school classmates acting plenty dignified. And countless attendings and residents too. Can’t remember a single instance of someone acting like a “caricature”.

 

[odyssey2]

In the 80's and 90's in New York and San Francisco, the Gay culture was a caricature. There were no serious attempts at "mainstreaming", in fact that culture conspicuously and provocatively rejected the norms and values it so dearly claims today. That was less than a generation ago and the failure of that strategy became painfully apparent. The Pride Ideology still exists, which is unfortunate for the sincere individuals that want to live their lives with dignity and integrity but are involuntarily aligned with the absurd agendas of transgenderism and the emerging interests in mainstreaming pederasty.

So groups cloaking themselves in the nobility of the virtuous charity of the inclusiveness of today in order to demonstrate how much more sophisticated they are as compared to the knuckle dragging mouth breathers of 30 years ago cause me go giggle.

The change attitude of today is secondary to a change in strategy. We can't remember the last mass murder let alone a cultural juggernaut of a generation ago. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe the movement has matured. But to suggest that the treatment the Gay agenda recieved in the 80's and 90's was somehow surprising is naive at best. Late night TV of the time would be considered appalling today and it isn't that we're so much more woke now than they were then.

The strategy of the gay pride movement of the 80s and 90s was not a failure, it was a resounding success and the precursor to the successes of the 21st century, including gay marriage and the repeal of DODA. It was also borne out of necessity to combat the AIDS crisis at the time.

Of course it was met with discomfort and bigotry at the time, since before then the gay community barely existed as a political force or was forced to go deep undercover.

I don’t know who the hell is interested in “mainstreaming pedarasty” but your understanding of the goals of the LGBT movement is woefully misinformed.