Forum Members Fellowship Opportunities

[DexterMorganSK]

This thread will only be about current Podiatric Fellowship positions. Please search within this thread for the most asked Q&A before making a new thread on the same topic. New threads with already discussed Q&As will be closed. This thread will be edited as new positions open/close.

CPME Approved: List of Approved Fellowships | CPME

ACFAS Approved: ACFAS - Fellowship Resources


The following are the most recent Fellowships threads. These are locked, but please read through them and post any questions in this thread.

Fellowships

Happy New Year! It's never too early to consider doing a fellowship! Fellowship opportunities are available in surgery, sports medicine, wound care.....interviews for these positions are often conducted a year in advance. I'll be posting a series of interviews with fellowship directors and...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Thoughts on Fellowship given job market

The job market sucks so bad that I’m considering doing a fellowship. I’m currently at a pretty good program. I’m getting good training or what I feel to be is good training. So I don’t feel like I need to do a fellowship from that perspective. Having said that, the job market is so god awful...

forums.studentdoctor.net

"Best" Fellowships?

Hello everyone, What are the top fellowship programs in foot and ankle surgery?

forums.studentdoctor.net

Resident/Fellow Experience

Have any residents had actual good experiences training with or under a fellow. Whenever it gets discussed by the ACFAS groups they always push the increased value for residents. Have any residents actually had this experience - where working under a fellow actually improved their training...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Good fellowships out there for major reconstructive surgery?

I have been gaining more and more interest in reconstructive surgeries. Not Charcot but like CP, acquired clubfoot, malunions, etc. Don't get me wrong, my residency is very surgery heavy and I know I will be comfortable doing at least 80% of cases when I am out but they don't do a lot of recon...

forums.studentdoctor.net

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[Retrograde_Nail]

Podiatry fellowship was legitimate now it has become so watered down with every possible attending and program starting their own fellowship that podiatry RESIDENCY training has become completely compromised. The fellowship effect has been neutralized by the abundance of graduates. You got fellowship trained podiatrists jointing private practice jobs. It is at the point that private practice jobs are seeking only fellowship trained podiatrists. This is how ridiculous it has gotten.

Hospital jobs are truly word of mouth at this point in time. If you have colleague who likes you currently working at a hospital and they open a another job they will 1000000% choose their colleague over these fellowship trained orthoplastic reconstructive foot and ankle surgeons.

 

[air bud]

Podiatry fellowship was legitimate now it has become so watered down with every possible attending and program starting their own fellowship that podiatry RESIDENCY training has become completely compromised. The fellowship effect has been neutralized by the abundance of graduates. You got fellowship trained podiatrists jointing private practice jobs. It is at the point that private practice jobs are seeking only fellowship trained podiatrists. This is how ridiculous it has gotten. Boomer podiatrists like Dean's Chat who are associated with podiatry schools have ZERO idea of what is going on. Nor do they care. Whatever they have to do to promote the narrative to get people into those empty podiatry school seats.

Hospital jobs are truly word of mouth at this point in time. If you have colleague who likes you currently working at a hospital and they open a another job they will 1000000% choose their colleague over these fellowship trained orthoplastic reconstructive foot and ankle surgeons.

Are we trying to get this thread closed this quickly?

 

[GreenHousePub]

Any reviews on the 5 wound care fellowship positions at Wycoff?

 

[air bud]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Adam Smasher]

Fellowship should be viewed in their historical context, because they have undergone an evolution in their intent.

The first fellowships (1990s-2000s) were basically remedial residency training. You did it to cover for the fact that your residency taught you nothing but you wanted to still be something. Meanwhile, fellowship directors needed someone to coauthor their papers and take on the scutty aspects of academic medicine. It was a perfect match.

In 2009, when the uniform PMSR residency training model was established to ensure [on paper] consistent training, elite residents needed a way to differentiate themselves. The associate job market was saturated with VA residency grads and it was impossible to tell the best from the rest. By sacrificing only 1 year of income, they were able to certify themselves as worthy of the high caliber jobs in podiatry. And so too rose the caliber of the fellowship directors' scutpuppies.

Over a decade later, fellowships have proliferated. I don't know where the training arms race ends. It could be so bad that without fellowship you'll be asked, "do you even operate, bro?" Some fellowships are worth it, some not. Their existence points to many issues in podiatry. The ROI problem. Inadequate training. Overcrowded job market.

Alternatively, you debride a patient's toenails and calluses and you get ~$120. Do that 25x and it's a $3k day. Do it 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, and it's 3/4 mil in revs. Do that for 40 years, and then you're done. 🦞

 

[Hybrocure]

Residencies let alone fellowships change radically from year to year if not month to month. I think we should encourage new topics rather than send them to a pinned purgatory.

Ok you can thumbs down me now

 

[Hybrocure]

Fellowship should be viewed in their historical context, because they have undergone an evolution in their intent.

The first fellowships (1990s-2000s) were basically remedial residency training. You did it to cover for the fact that your residency taught you nothing but you wanted to still be something. Meanwhile, fellowship directors needed someone to coauthor their papers and take on the scutty aspects of academic medicine. It was a perfect match.

In 2009, when the uniform PMSR residency training model was established to ensure [on paper] consistent training, elite residents needed a way to differentiate themselves. The associate job market was saturated with VA residency grads and it was impossible to tell the best from the rest. By sacrificing only 1 year of income, they were able to certify themselves as worthy of the high caliber jobs in podiatry. And so too rose the caliber of the fellowship directors' scutpuppies.

Over a decade later, fellowships have proliferated. I don't know where the training arms race ends. It could be so bad that without fellowship you'll be asked, "do you even operate, bro?" Some fellowships are worth it, some not. Their existence points to many issues in podiatry. The ROI problem. Inadequate training. Overcrowded job market.

Alternatively, you debride a patient's toenails and calluses and you get ~$120. Do that 25x and it's a $3k day. Do it 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, and it's 3/4 mil in revs. Do that for 40 years, and then you're done. 🦞

A hard shell is a quiet life. The lobster perseveres.

 

[air bud]

Can someone explain to me why the ACFAS list requires sign in?
Also, as we know (or should know by now) that proper wound care/limb preservation is a surgical specialty (multi-disciplinary). But ACFAS only likes total ankles (wannabe Ortho bros) so their fellowships are all reconstruction/Total ankle/SURGERY WE Do SURGERY....

 

[Shiyuan]

I honestly don’t know what is in someone’s mind when they decide to pursue a “wound care” fellowship. 🤷🏻‍♂

 

[Hybrocure]

I honestly don’t know what is in someone’s mind when they decide to pursue a “wound care” fellowship. 🤷🏻‍♂

Depending on the location it’s either betadine soaked gauze or dakins

 

[Boba Foot]

I honestly don’t know what is in someone’s mind when they decide to pursue a “wound care” fellowship. 🤷🏻‍♂

Imagine giving up a year's worth of decent income just to specialize in having uninsured patients with wounds dumped on you.

 

[air bud]

Imagine giving up a year's worth of decent income just to specialize in having uninsured patients with wounds dumped on you.

Tell me you work in private Practice without telling me you work in private practice.....those of us in RVU life call those money weeds. It's a just a matter of time before a new one pops up and starts growing.

But seriously. The more limb salvage I do the more appreciation I have for it. You clowns can have the bunions and total ankles. Have fun when Ortho comes for you. 🦞

 

[Adam Smasher]

I honestly don’t know what is in someone’s mind when they decide to pursue a “wound care” fellowship. 🤷🏻‍♂

Tell me you work in private Practice without telling me you work in private practice.....those of us in RVU life call those money weeds. It's a just a matter of time before a new one pops up and starts growing.

There's the answer. WC fellowships function as a stepping stone into a hospital employment scenario. Other commenters talk about how ABFAS RRA certification helps you land a well-paying academic/health system job. But if the job is non-op, ABFAS RRA is irrelevant. The only other differentiating factor is WC fellowship training, which we all know is fluff, but the physician recruiter will be impressed by.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Are there any fellowships available so one does not end up a podiatrist - doing the exact same thing as non-fellowship trained podiatrists?

 

[air bud]

There's the answer. WC fellowships function as a stepping stone into a hospital employment scenario. Other commenters talk about how ABFAS RRA certification helps you land a well-paying academic/health system job. But if the job is non-op, ABFAS RRA is irrelevant. The only other differentiating factor is WC fellowship training, which we all know is fluff, but the physician recruiter will be impressed by.

Right....but then since PODIATRY they don't actually get that hospital job and end up in PP trying to use their expensively acquired skill set in a few for service setting ...

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

There's the answer. WC fellowships function as a stepping stone into a hospital employment scenario. Other commenters talk about how ABFAS RRA certification helps you land a well-paying academic/health system job. But if the job is non-op, ABFAS RRA is irrelevant. The only other differentiating factor is WC fellowship training, which we all know is fluff, but the physician recruiter will be impressed by.

Most wound care fellowships are complete trash. They are done by graduating residents from WEAK residency training background.

I went to a high powered residency where we did zero wound care. I did a lot of total ankles and elective surgery along with a healthy amount of foot and ankle trauma.

Reality for podiatry once you graduate from residency is a healthy dose of wounds, limbs salvage with some elective and trauma mixed in. That is the reality. The podiatrists who carve out an only MSK practice make up probably less than 20% of the profession. The podiatrists who mainly specialize in TAR I can probably count on one hand.

To be good at limb salvage you need surgical training. I did zero limb salvage in residency now I've made a career out of it. The surgical training I got in residency got me there. I do a ton of retrograde nails, ex-fix, muscle flaps, etc. I got comfortable doing these things after a few courses but because I had excellent surgical training in residency. When I am not doing limb salvage I still do some bunions, ankle scopes, brostroms, flatfoots etc. I also get a healthy amount of high risk foot & ankle trauma.

The best limb salvage surgeons are surgical. I didn't need a wound care fellowship to do get there. You just need real surgical training.

This is why fellowship training in podiatry is actually dangerous. Because you are creating walls and barriers where there don't need to be any. These wound care fellowships are not good. We don't need "wound care/ limb salvage trained" podiatrists. We JUST need our best trained podiatrists to start embracing wound care and limb salvage and stop pretending they are too good for it. When that doesn't happen we have a bunch of poorly trained podiatrists handling this stuff who can't even surgically salvage. How does this improve the perception of podiatry? It doesn't.

We don't need all these highly specialized fellowship programs. It is creating a false expectation that if you do a fellowship in certain areas then you will be the one who mostly handles these pathologies. Wrong. Dead wrong. In REALITY, once you graduate from fellowship, you will get toenails, wounds, charcot and all the other crap nobody wants to deal with just like every other podiatrist.

We need better residency training. The fellowship ship has sailed and is hurting the profession more than helping.

People should be more disturbed about this.

 

[air bud]

Agree with all of this completely. As I've started doing more limb salvage soft tissue balancing etc it is grounded in good elective reconstruction. Flat foot deformity cavis foot etc. once you know how to do that you can figure out pretty much anything else. But you have to understand deformity correction and anatomy. And I'm not talking multi-joint long limb deformity correction. Patient has a recurrent sub-third ulcer after a partial forth and 5th Ray because of weakness of the edl and overpowering of the TA. So transfer the TA to the cuboid, gastroc and should fix the ulcer.

An ulcer is a X on a treasure map. Tells you right where the problem is. You figure out what musculoskeletal imbalance is causing it and then fix it. Surgically. Not with lotions and potions. The skin is not the issue.

Funny story I talked to a guy recently who was super busy as mostly non op pod in a health system. Like vascular did all the amps on inpatients. Was going to interview a person who just completed a 2 year wound fellowship. For a non op wound care job. Lololol.

 

[Adam Smasher]

Fellowships are not the problem. They are a symptom of an overcrowded job market.

A few years back, John Stossel had a report/commentary on college education, that too many people were pursuing degrees that they weren't really using. And students know they aren't learning anything of substance, but in a market where everyone has a degree, not having that degree is a good way to get filtered out of an applicant pool. It's like standing on your toes at a concert to get a better view. If you do it, everyone else has to do it also.

Ditto with podiatry fellowships. Kudos to @Retrograde_Nail and the rest that were able to get heavy surgery jobs without fellowship, just like the Bill Gateses of the world who drop out of college and succeed no matter what. But a lot of young pods feel pressure to seek fellowship.

Fix the job market and fellowships become entirely unneeded.

 

[Hybrocure]

Agree. Fellowships are not because people are pursuing excellence, innovation etc. they are desperate to make themselves stand out and get a reasonable job . END OF STORY. Anyone who tells you different is either trying a find a better job, justifying what they already done, or benefitting from said fellows.

Idk. I’ve met docs and fellows from some of the higher tier fellowships and they would’ve gotten a good job regardless without the fellowship from their training/residency (similar to retrograde nail), they just went to fellowship for a next level of training.

But as I stated..these guys went to top fellowships

 

[wakaflocka88]

Idk. I’ve met docs and fellows from some of the higher tier fellowships and they would’ve gotten a good job regardless without the fellowship from their training/residency (similar to retrograde nail), they just went to fellowship for a next level of training.

But as I stated..these guys went to top fellowships

Yes I know a few of these fellows too. But this reality is far and few for each years 500-600 new grads. This is what our profession needs to be more realistic about - not those fake ACFAS “new look at foot and ankle surgeon” videos. Who are they trying to fool? Please PM me if you want true stories from some of these “elite” fellowships and I promise you will be shocked.

 

[Hybrocure]

Yes I know a few of these fellows too. But this reality is far and few for each years 500-600 new grads. This is what our profession needs to be more realistic about - not those fake ACFAS “new look at foot and ankle surgeon” videos. Who are they trying to fool? Please PM me if you want true stories from some of these “elite” fellowships and I promise you will be shocked.

There’s also a big marketing problem too. Every fellowship makes themselves appear to be top tier just because of a name or a location associated with it. Some of these are traps to be a first assist/inpatient rounder for a year. There’s no true way to know unless you personally know the fellows who have done these fellowships and know them well enough for them to tell you the truth, or if you’ve crossed paths with them through your training.


That’s why I think it’s better to encourage new topics on this because the fellowship climate is constantly changing and what we read 6 months ago on something might be very different than how things are now for certain programs (for better or worse).

SDN is really the only actual resource on fellowship talk for podiatry in an honest way. PM News is the grandfathered echo chamber and I don’t trust any advertising/conference material on the matter.

For me personally I have no stake in this. But I lurked Sdn as a student and resident and it does impact choices whether we hear people talk about it or not

 

[Feli]

Fellowships are not the problem. They are a symptom of an overcrowded job market. ...

Agree. Fellowships are not because people are pursuing excellence, innovation etc. they are desperate to make themselves stand out and get a reasonable job . END OF STORY. Anyone who tells you different is either trying a find a better job, justifying what they already done, or benefitting from said fellows.

... In REALITY, once you graduate from fellowship, you will get toenails, wounds, charcot and all the other crap nobody wants to deal with just like every other podiatrist.

We need better residency training. The fellowship ship has sailed and is hurting the profession more than helping.

People should be more disturbed about this.

Hear, hear! ^^^

...Fellowships started out fine enough: a chance to see unique cases with top attendings who'd gained those interesting deformity/trauma/peds/whatever refers via job and/or personal rep. Early in my residency, I very briefly considered the fellowship year idea for that academic reason (Camasta one had just started). There are only maybe a dozen of the really high quality cases/director fellowships, and even those ones have mostly now watered down the fellowship year with multiple fellows per year (despite few/no added cases).

Even if some DPM fellowships are were good quality, the problem is that practicing years are finite, eyes and hands don't last forever, most fellowship directors/attendings did less than the modern 3yrs pods did, and podiatry fellowship still makes one a podiatry surgeon.

Fellowships have since popped up left and right. They've devolved to take many cases/attendings out of residency training, compound debt for another year, have many low quality fellowships... with no additional cert or skill given. It's a gamble, but DPMs are in debt and desperate for fair quality jobs. That was the crux of the linked above "Thoughts on Fellowship given job market."

Residency training is the key: better spots and less of them.
That fixes highly variable quality of grads. Board pass rates ABFAS solves itself.
That makes DPMs better skilled, rarer, and in demand.
That forces the laggard pod schools to close/merge/improve.
Fellowships would be back to totally unnecessary and low popularity.

Instead, we are on the verge of new UTRGV and LECOM causing another residency shortage or causing hastily-created junk spots and watered-down programs due to increased spots. Some schools like to advertise "everyone gets residency," but the reality of that is nearly as bad as no match for people with $300k-$400k debt then thrust into a generally saturated and underpaid job search with failed boards after subpar training.

...A few years back, John Stossel had a report/commentary on college education, that too many people were pursuing degrees that they weren't really using. And students know they aren't learning anything of substance, but in a market where everyone has a degree, not having that degree is a good way to get filtered out of an applicant pool. It's like standing on your toes at a concert to get a better view. If you do it, everyone else has to do it also.

Ditto with podiatry fellowships....

100% ^^^

The sad part is that 7.x% interest on $400k loans is $30k... plus the roughly $100k of missed income in the fellowship $65k year versus getting out and working for ~$165k and real exp. That's a $130k + 1 year (of maybe ~30yrs practicing?) gamble simply to buy more time to find a job.

 

[Shiyuan]

The only person I know (will probably ever know!?) who got a “good” gig with a wound care fellowship was a colleague of mine. They secured a VA gig because the MDs interviewing them were impressed they had a wound care fellowship (if only they knew the reality of podiatry fellowships… *cough* Bako *cough*).

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

The only person I know (will probably ever know!?) who got a “good” gig with a wound care fellowship was a colleague of mine. They secured a VA gig because the MDs interviewing them were impressed they had a wound care fellowship (if only they knew the reality of podiatry fellowships… *cough* Bako *cough*).

Ask yourself do you need a fellowship to work in a VA? The answer is no. But if candidates need to be "fellowship trained" to earn VA jobs then that would be a new low in podiatry.

 

[Hybrocure]

Ask yourself do you need a fellowship to work in a VA? The answer is no. But if candidates need to be "fellowship trained" to earn VA jobs then that would be a new low in podiatry.

Ah yes. A fellowship to sit in your office while the residents and students do all the work for you, and the veteran leaves angry and confused why he didn’t get proper care and never saw the doctor

 

[Feli]

Ask yourself do you need a fellowship to work in a VA? The answer is no. But if candidates need to be "fellowship trained" to earn VA jobs then that would be a new low in podiatry.

A year of compounded debt fellowship training... to be competitive for job/salary that MDs treat like a week-old newspaper. Uuf-da.

Hey, it's podiatry. Give us time.... we'll get there. Let's open some new schools and add some seats.

Can someone explain to me why the ACFAS list requires sign in? ...

I have no idea, but it's useful to see the list... and you can search recent and past grads from fellowships to see where they placed.
It would be awesome to see job type placement results of all fellowship (and esp placements vs their 3yr non-fellow co-residents?).

For the fellowship I considered for a bit during pgy1 (before I'd done much surgery), they have done:
1/9 grad ortho group (first ever, logically... when ortho jobs were still a bit more available and cold-call-created)
2/9 priv prac owner
2/9 grads private prac employed
3/9 large corp employ (Kaiser, village, upperline, etc)
1/9 hosp FTE
So yeah, basically nothing you couldn't get without fellowship.... and this is even after spending a year learning with one of the better surgeons I've ever seen (at cost of a year of lost income/autonomy and for $50k salary). They, like many top fellowships, now went from 1/yr to 2/yr fellows, so I can't imagine job placements will improve?

...If anything, I honestly think people who do top fellowships are just more go-getter than the avg DPM (more will start own PP, keep calling for jobs, or go to whatever place they can get ortho/hosp job). They get a lower % settle for common PP/supergroup associate gigs. That's a good thing the top fellowship type personalities work to do better than avg... but so do ppl who do a top residency.

 

[Adam Smasher]

What are you talking about? We all have asserted our positions on the question of fellowship

 

[619]

This is my nail jail now.

Have at it. The fellowship trained folks are driving the pus bus.

 

[CleanDryandIntact]

SDN attendings calling out podiatry deep state daily. This forum is essential!

 

[Weirdy]

.

 

[Feli]

Fellowships are not the problem. They are a symptom of an overcrowded job market. ...

This absolutely correct. It brings up a fairly good point, though:

With the new schools opening, we will have record numbers of pods coming out of training from here on out. Student loan debt is at all-time high also.

So, is podiatry fellowship, in 2024...

1. Worse than ever to lose a year of more good employed jobs (VA, MSG, hospital, rural hospital, etc) being snapped up as the saturation of "foot and ankle surgeon" 3yr and 3+fellowship DPMs increases by 600+ yearly? Also, fellowship DPM would lose a year of private practice development, marketing, and/or earnings if going that entrepreneur route... as competition can start up or expand to their target area while DPM is in fellowship. It certainly doesn't help anyone's net worth or credit score to make $50k instead of $150k+ first year out of residency.
2. Or, is fellowship more essential than ever (since increasing number of peers applying to same jobs will have fellowship on their CV). Will non-fellowship apps be tossed out for some jobs... kinda in the way non-ABFAS ones are now? Similar to the "Ivy league" residencies for podiatry, is a "fellowship" worth trying to flex on a CV to angle for a hospital gig? Will some PPs pay more for fellowship DPMs... or at least hire them at same pay over a non-fellowship peer?

...If I were a current podiatry resident, it almost seems that it's hard to push back the job search for a year when that search has gotten nothing but tougher and tougher as the 2 or 3 year DPM surgical residency became more common and "foot and ankle surgeon" market has seriously dried up in the past couple decades (it was never A+ to begin with). More and more small hospitals, big hospitals, VAs, MSGs than ever have a DPM now. Heck, even most DPM groups all do their own surgery or already have their "big surgery guy" (those jobs were EASY to find 20yrs ago to get good volume and ABFAS cert). There is only so much need and there are only so many create-a-job locations out there.

And yeah, I know it's a slam dunk "yes" for a top podiatry fellowship (assuming going employed route) due to good networking to increase chances of ortho group job, fellowship group job, or good employed job connections. However, even most of those elite fellowships are now watered-down (eg, Hyer OFAC fellowship was one fellow per year... then two... now up to 3/yr).
Just like good residency programs in 2000 or 2005 or 2010, the fellowships in 2010 or 2015 were putting nearly all grads into hospital and ortho jobs... but now, more and more top grads end up in basic pod PP gigs. The wells are dry. Will the elite fellowship and residency name/alum networks be able to sustain? How much is that increased chance of a better job worth?

 

[air bud]

Anyone still in training needs some urgency to get done and get in the work place and get experience and develop....yes more good jobs opening but not proportional to new well trained grads coming into the workforce. Time is not on your side.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I think what @Feli and I have both inadvertently suggested is that, bad as they are for podiatry as a whole, on an individual level seeking fellowship is potentially very helpful to one's career.

I've been thinking for a while about writing a post about how what's good for podiatrists is often bad for podiatry, but I've had a hard time articulating it, always delete my drafts. This is a good example.

Also I think the next step is to see 2-year fellowships like the wound care one @air bud alluded to and the research fellowship at U Mich if it's still there. Either that or multi-fellowship trained like we see in ortho (hand and ue + sports). It's a BAD step but it'll help fellows stand out.

 

[Shiyuan]

Maybe lengthen the Bako one from 2 —> 4 weeks? Asking for a friend 🤔😁

 

[air bud]

Ok let's fine tune some things - if you are geographically open - fellowship can be a good option. If you are dead set on a certain location then worse option.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Maybe lengthen the Bako one from 2 —> 4 weeks? Asking for a friend 🤔😁

biggest WASTE of time.....EVER

 

[AttackNME]

We don't need "wound care/ limb salvage trained" podiatrists. We JUST need our best trained podiatrists to start embracing wound care and limb salvage and stop pretending they are too good for it.

Agreed, I think it’ll happen in the next generation of podiatrists

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

I see the doom and gloom parade is on its way to the pity party …

Would love for you to actually argue against any of the points made here rather than resort to discrediting the forum...again

 

[iridocyclitiss]

And yeah, I know it's a slam dunk "yes" for a top podiatry fellowship (assuming going employed route) due to good networking to increase chances of ortho group job, fellowship group job, or good employed job connections. However, even most of those elite fellowships are now watered-down (eg, Hyer OFAC fellowship was one fellow per year... then two... now up to 3/yr).

Totally get that OFAC adding a 3rd fellow isn't awesome. That being said, is grant still shut down? They could be adding a fellow because they'll only have 4 residents next year instead of their 12. Not saying its good, but them adding a fellow may not totally hurt their numbers? but who knows.

Even if that is the case there are too many weak fellowships/diluted fellowships. Hard to justify losing a year of income and logging your own cases

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Totally get that OFAC adding a 3rd fellow isn't awesome. That being said, is grant still shut down? They could be adding a fellow because they'll only have 4 residents next year instead of their 12. Not saying its good, but them adding a fellow may not totally hurt their numbers? but who knows.

Even if that is the case there are too many weak fellowships/diluted fellowships. Hard to justify losing a year of income and logging your own cases

Hyer adding a third fellow spot is not great. They do a ton of cases so maybe the volume supports it. When I visited they had ortho residents there too assisting cases on the ortho attending cases.

 

[Mental_Managment_97]

Hard to justify losing a year of income and logging your own cases

Sorry for the student question interruption. Are you referring to the cases a doctor needs for ABFAS certification? I thought I read that fellows can log the cases if they were the doctor of record towards that certification.

 

[air bud]

Sorry for the student question interruption. Are you referring to the cases a doctor needs for ABFAS certification? I thought I read that fellows can log the cases if they were the doctor of record towards that certification.

Yeah that means the attending is not getting paid on that surgery. Good luck with that. But it does happen at some places like Broadlawns in Iowa (in the past at least) as well as UTSA as Dr Rogers has stated. So it's something gets championed but doesn't actually happen. But that's all the deception that occurs with promoting fellowship training. Cross my heart hope to die stick a k wire through my eye.

 

[Mental_Managment_97]

Yeah that means the attending is not getting paid on that surgery. Good luck with that. But it does happen at some places like Broadlawns in Iowa (in the past at least) as well as UTSA as Dr Rogers has stated. So it's something gets championed but doesn't actually happen. But that's all the deception that occurs with promoting fellowship training. Cross my heart hope to die stick a k wire through my eye.

I was given an hour long course on the infighting between your boards at a recent shadowing session so I went home and read ahead. It's a confusing process.

Most of the other specialties agree that if someone has a desire for a possible possible academic role in the future then a fellowship is one of the best things you can do. If for no other reason then the mentorship. From what I read the CPME fellowships seem to have built in academic\research time but no fellowship listed is specifically aimed that way. I can't speak for any others because the information is behind a membership wall.

Thank you though!

 

[air bud]

I was given an hour long course on the infighting between your boards at a recent shadowing session so I went home and read ahead. It's a confusing process.

Most of the other specialties agree that if someone has a desire for a possible possible academic role in the future then a fellowship is one of the best things you can do. If for no other reason then the mentorship. From what I read the CPME fellowships seem to have built in academic\research time but no fellowship listed is specifically aimed that way. I can't speak for any others because the information is behind a membership wall.

Thank you though!

Academic role in Podiatry lol. At major medical institutions. Hey everyone get a load of this guy 🤣

Just don't think of podiatry as a medial specialty in terms of training or its role in major Medical institutions. Forget standard training, incomes, etc. Go from there

LCR is doing his part. he is but one man. Podiatry sucks. Easier to complain than make a difference.

 

[HeySister]

Most fellowships exist at least partially to make the attendings life better.

Many fellows now leave training and work for podiatry groups, not coveted organization jobs.

Most fellowships impinge on residency training, many in a significant way.

More fellowships is bad, and anyone without blinders on can see that.

Fellowships with one attending make no real sense and are a major gamble.

If I was coming out and did not have an organizational job with reasonable pay, I would do a fellowship. Many will disagree with this decision. They aren't wrong or right.

You need to do a lot of surgery to become a good surgeon. Most podiatrists do not do a lot of surgery. Fellows take away from residents doing surgery. More fellows graduating and replacing TFP type docs retiring leads to increased surgical saturation.

Nail care podiatry is not saturated. Ethical nail care podiatry is saturated. Surgical podiatry is extremely saturated. It all gets weird when those types of practices are all molded together into one mass of 15000 or however many pods we have.

You can still do very well. Most will do ok. Few will do extremely well. Many will not do well. Most will not do well when they come out. Some will escape.

It sucks to graduate with $300,000 of loans and make $112,000 and be told by the boss that's a lot do money. That happens with fellowship grads too.

Saturation means lower insurance reimbursement. That is our real problem.

Most fellows are glad they did their fellowship. That may be selection bias but something to think about.

 

[air bud]

Most fellowships exist at least partially to make the attendings life better.

Many fellows now leave training and work for podiatry groups, not coveted organization jobs.

Most fellowships impinge on residency training, many in a significant way.

More fellowships is bad, and anyone without blinders on can see that.

Fellowships with one attending make no real sense and are a major gamble.

If I was coming out and did not have an organizational job with reasonable pay, I would do a fellowship. Many will disagree with this decision. They aren't wrong or right.

You need to do a lot of surgery to become a good surgeon. Most podiatrists do not do a lot of surgery. Fellows take away from residents doing surgery. More fellows graduating and replacing TFP type docs retiring leads to increased surgical saturation.

Nail care podiatry is not saturated. Ethical nail care podiatry is saturated. Surgical podiatry is extremely saturated. It all gets weird when those types of practices are all molded together into one mass of 15000 or however many pods we have.

You can still do very well. Most will do ok. Few will do extremely well. Many will not do well. Most will not do well when they come out. Some will escape.

It sucks to graduate with $300,000 of loans and make $112,000 and be told by the boss that's a lot do money. That happens with fellowship grads too.

Saturation means lower insurance reimbursement. That is our real problem.

Most fellows are glad they did their fellowship. That may be selection bias but something to think about.

Can't disagree with most of what you said here. But also fellows not going to admit the extra training did not pay off for them.

 

[MicroPod]

Also for those who have families, imagine moving yet again to a new place for one year in order to maybe be slightly more competitive for the awful job prospects out there.

 

[air bud]

Also for those who have families, imagine moving yet again to a new place for one year in order to maybe be slightly more competitive for the awful job prospects out there.

Don't worry bro gonna move in a few years when the associate job keeps you from bonusing and maxing out at 120k a year. Family will beg you to move.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

stick a k wire through my eye.

Here when you need me. Professional courtesy