Air Force Fighter Pilot to HPSP?

[viperdriver69]

I'm a new guy here but my googles over the past year or so routinely direct me to this site, so I figured I should probably register and ask my specific questions in a new thread... I've tried searching but the results are always a little off from what I want to know specifically.

So here goes - I'm a 12-year F-16 pilot, O-4 type, done with my commitment, owe Uncle Sam nothing, and have a stable Wing job that is going to let me stay in place through probably 2021. I decided a little over a year ago that I am definitely going to try to go the MD route - I can explain later if required but I went DNIF and bottom line, I'm probably done flying single-seat due to some barotrauma I experienced. I feel like Medicine is my calling. I wasn't premed at the Air Force Academy and (like most service academy grads) grades aren't exactly what Med Schools are looking for. So I enrolled in School last year to bump up my GPA (I also have a 4.0 MBA) and knock out my pre-reqs. School has been going great. My question is: I'm on track to apply to Med School for a 2021 school year start. I'm thinking the HPSP might fit my needs, because my thought would be to get out, go to school, get paid (and school paid for), come back in, payback what I needed to and then retire somewhere after the 20 year mark but not too much later.

Is that a reasonable plan? Is there any preference to a former pilot to perhaps come back in as an Aerospace Physiologist? When I come back in, do I keep my previous rank? I know how it works at USUHS, but I'm not interested in that kind of commitment. Does HPSP make me resign my current commission? Do I recommission as an O-3 plus half of my time like USUHS? Or do I keep my current rank? Are the Reserves a better option to finish out my time (is there that option?) What would you do if you were in my shoes, were done flying, have 12 years of service, 34 years old, and really passionately feel medicine is your future? I understand everyone's perspective is different but that's what I'm looking for. Family considerations are all good, I do have 4 young children and my wife is a trauma/Sx PA, we all know what we're getting in to and they're all 100% on board. I know things can change but I can leave that out of the equation for now. Thanks in advance!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[el_duderino]

I can't speak to whether you're eligible for HPSP and so forth, but your story sounds like a pretty decent one to me. You're definitely on the older side, especially if you have to go back and get some prereqs. You would probably be the oldest student in your med school class most places. You will want to apply to both MD and DO, most likely.

What is your GPA like at the moment? What prereqs do you still need to do?

 

[teacherman84]

I'm a new guy here but my googles over the past year or so routinely direct me to this site, so I figured I should probably register and ask my specific questions in a new thread... I've tried searching but the results are always a little off from what I want to know specifically.

So here goes - I'm a 12-year F-16 pilot, O-4 type, done with my commitment, owe Uncle Sam nothing, and have a stable Wing job that is going to let me stay in place through probably 2021. I decided a little over a year ago that I am definitely going to try to go the MD route - I can explain later if required but I went DNIF and bottom line, I'm probably done flying single-seat due to some barotrauma I experienced. I feel like Medicine is my calling. I wasn't premed at the Air Force Academy and (like most service academy grads) grades aren't exactly what Med Schools are looking for. So I enrolled in School last year to bump up my GPA (I also have a 4.0 MBA) and knock out my pre-reqs. School has been going great. My question is: I'm on track to apply to Med School for a 2021 school year start. I'm thinking the HPSP might fit my needs, because my thought would be to get out, go to school, get paid (and school paid for), come back in, payback what I needed to and then retire somewhere after the 20 year mark but not too much later.

Is that a reasonable plan? Is there any preference to a former pilot to perhaps come back in as an Aerospace Physiologist? When I come back in, do I keep my previous rank? I know how it works at USUHS, but I'm not interested in that kind of commitment. Does HPSP make me resign my current commission? Do I recommission as an O-3 plus half of my time like USUHS? Or do I keep my current rank? Are the Reserves a better option to finish out my time (is there that option?) What would you do if you were in my shoes, were done flying, have 12 years of service, 34 years old, and really passionately feel medicine is your future? I understand everyone's perspective is different but that's what I'm looking for. Family considerations are all good, I do have 4 young children and my wife is a trauma/Sx PA, we all know what we're getting in to and they're all 100% on board. I know things can change but I can leave that out of the equation for now. Thanks in advance!

Aerospace physiologists are BSCs, not MDs. You're thinking fight docs.

Otherwise, I think it sounds like a good idea. There are multiple pilots turned MD in the AF. I think ther used to be a former F15 guy/gal on here. @eagledriver

 

[Gastrapathy]

What specialty do you want? You'll be 4 years from 20 at the start of this plan. No chance you could go now?

 

[DrMetal]

I'm a new guy here but my googles over the past year or so routinely direct me to this site, so I figured I should probably register and ask my specific questions in a new thread... I've tried searching but the results are always a little off from what I want to know specifically.

So here goes - I'm a 12-year F-16 pilot, O-4 type,

Can you do this? Penis skydrawing was our doing, Navy says

If so, you deserve an automatic bid into the medical corps, we need the sense of humor.

 

[Perrotfish]

My only advice in your situation would be to look into Navy HSCP. It's another program for.medical school, but you can maintain Tricare for your entire family and accumulate time in service while in medical school. It doesn't pay for tuition, but it pays you as an E7 during school, which will usually cover tuition.

Also, since you are 'enlisted' for 4 years you get the good conduct medal at the end of medical school

 

[militaryPHYS]

My only advice in your situation would be to look into Navy HSCP. It's another program for.medical school, but you can maintain Tricare for your entire family and accumulate time in service while in medical school. It doesn't pay for tuition, but it pays you as an E7 during school, which will usually cover tuition.

Also, since you are 'enlisted' for 4 years you get the good conduct medal at the end of medical school

I agree with the HSCP route because you have so much time in and you can continue to accrue time in service.

Does your wife work? Being O4 you would be making bank during your time at USUHS! It’s just an extra 3 years of payback...haha. But seriously you really can’t beat the lifestyle. Being older and not even started med school I think lifestyle is a huge deal. We had a prior O4 blue angel in my class. He was about 35 while we were going through USUHS together

 

[Cooperd0g]

... fighter pilot at 12 years with family that wants to go to medical school ...

You are pretty much a slightly younger version of me, but I was Navy and had no kids. I didn't have any barotrauma, but the career path became desk work for 4-5 years doing stuff I had no interest in with the slight possibility of getting back to flying. A friend had got into medical school and it was intriguing, etc. and I decided that is what I wanted to do. I figured I would do it via the military somehow in order to get my pension that I was more than half way to. I do have pride being in the military as well and want to finish a career in it.

Is there any preference to a former pilot to perhaps come back in as an Aerospace Physiologist?

As another mentioned, a physiologist is not a MD. I do not know the status of the physiology program in the AF. The Navy has dedicated aerospace physiologists. There are several who were former pilots/NFOs. I also recently met a former AF pilot who is now a navy aerospace experimental psychologist because they still get to fly in the Navy, but not in the AF. Still, he isn't an MD so if MD is what you want then this won't be a good path for you. It is a path you could look at because it could keep you involved in aviation, get into the safety side and have good employment options after you retire from the AF.

When I come back in, do I keep my previous rank? I know how it works at USUHS, but I'm not interested in that kind of commitment.

No.

Does HPSP make me resign my current commission?

Yes. Title 10 of the US Code requires that every one at USUHS and on the HPSP scholarship be an O-1.

Do I recommission as an O-3 plus half of my time like USUHS? Or do I keep my current rank?

Yes, it is O-3 plus half time. You might need to check the relevant AF pubs, but that is the case for the dudes I knew at USUHS in the AF with prior time and for myself in the Navy along with several other Navy and Army folks. In the Navy and Army if your half time is greater than 6 years (which it will be for you) you go up to the next rank. For example, I had 14 years. O-3 plus 7 = O-4 plus 1. I graduated and became an O-4 with one year time in grade. It is likely the same for AF.

Are the Reserves a better option to finish out my time (is there that option?)

I can't say. I might be really hard to do civilian medical school while being in the reserves. I don't know of any reserve program that pays for medical school other than some infrequently mentioned Army Guard program.

What would you do if you were in my shoes, were done flying, have 12 years of service, 34 years old, and really passionately feel medicine is your future?

At 12 years with a cush job for the next few I would decide if you want to (1) prioritize your retirement from the military (big financial decision), (2) go to medical school ASAP or (3) some combo of the two.

Your options:
(1) Ride out your time, get your pension, use your Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for a cheap state medical school (move to the right state), get your residency, etc. You'll be making over $50k as a med student with virtually no cost of school and over $100k as a resident with no commitments to the military.

(2) Resign from the AF, maybe rejoin later (reserves or active) when done with all your medical training.

(3) a. USUHS - it really is only 3 years longer than HPSP and you get your full income and benefits during school. For someone with a big family this is a good deal. Over $100k salary as a student. Your wife is a PA and can make good money, but then you also have to pay good money to have 4 kids in child care.

(3) b. HPSP - free school, time doesn't really count towards retirement, not a ton of money for the family. Wife will have to work and still have kids in child care. Commitment is shorter. You could ride out your time as a GMO and then do civilian residency with a pension if you want to do residency in the military, but have to stay in longer.

(3) c. HSCP - Navy program only, counts towards retirement time, full pay at E-7 with benefits, but you pay for school so get into a cheap state school (any one as they have to give you in state tuition regardless). Either pay cash or use Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for school. Still a 4 year commitment similar to HPSP at this point.

It is hard to say what I would do because your situation is different then mine. A lot depends on what specialty you end up deciding to do or pursue. Personally I was not interested in 5-7 year pain cave programs in my 40s, though I likely would have been in my 20s. I can tell you want I was going for and what I did. My goal was HSCP and state school over USUHS by a slight margin. This was before all state school were required to give active duty in-state tuition so I didn't apply to many state schools. This would have got me to a retirement option earlier allowing for more choices on deciding to stay in the military for residency or not. However, I did not get into a state school, but I did get into USUHS. I am not at all unhappy about going to USUHS. I managed to get my residency of choice without having to do a GMO tour as well.

... Thanks in advance!

No sweat.

 

[viperdriver69]

I can't speak to whether you're eligible for HPSP and so forth, but your story sounds like a pretty decent one to me. You're definitely on the older side, especially if you have to go back and get some prereqs. You would probably be the oldest student in your med school class most places. You will want to apply to both MD and DO, most likely.

What is your GPA like at the moment? What prereqs do you still need to do?

Thanks! So this was initially always an impossible dream of mine. When I stopped flying I had some really good chats with Flight Docs on base and they said obviously I'd have to do some work but it's all about "how bad do you want it?" Well I was like... yeah, but your grades weren't like MY GRADES haha. I graduated with a 2.3 GPA from the Academy. I didn't care at the time, I just wanted to fly planes and get through that place as quickly as possible.

So when I started down this path, I knew I would need to retake some classes. I'm literally taking every single pre-req class over, even the ones I took and got a C in 17 years ago. Chem 1/2 w/lab, Physics 1/2 w/lab, Bio, O chem 1/2, etc... I'm a little more than halfway through after a year and a half and have a 4.0 GPA at a big university (this isn't like some community college, I'm doing and paying for the full monty at a good school right now in addition to working full time). I also have a 4.0 GPA MBA as I mentioned... I know this isn't huge but I need to paint the picture that I'm a reformed student who can actually do well. I'm hoping that combined with my Fighter Pilotness and military service I'll hopefully have a few schools who say, "screw it let's bring this guy in for an interview and see what he's all about". The ones who see my undergrad GPA and immediately cut me from the pile... well... it probably wouldn't be a good fit anyways haha. I'm typically a very good test taker and will be focusing on doing as well as I can on the MCAT obviously. But I will definitely be applying to DO's as well for those reasons- I know I'm in a position of weakness as far as how I look on paper.

 

[viperdriver69]

Aerospace physiologists are BSCs, not MDs. You're thinking fight docs.

Otherwise, I think it sounds like a good idea. There are multiple pilots turned MD in the AF. I think ther used to be a former F15 guy/gal on here. @eagledriver

You're absolutely correct. I meant Flight Doc and for some reason I thought the terms were interchangeable. My PA wife looked at me like I'm an idiot for you.

 

[viperdriver69]

What specialty do you want? You'll be 4 years from 20 at the start of this plan. No chance you could go now?

Nah as I mentioned in my last reply my grades are not even close to acceptable so I need to do some work. Plus I need to take the bare bones classes (O-Chem, A&P, etc...) and take MCATs which wouldn't go so well unless I take all those classes over. 4 years away from 20 was the main thought because I could get back in and finish the 20 on the backside, and all the considerations are the reason I'm asking these questions in the first place.

 

[viperdriver69]

Can you do this?

If so, you deserve an automatic bid into the medical corps, we need the sense of humor.

HAHAHA Oh man those pics have been going around my squadron's group chat for the last few days, we have some pretty solid memes going on. The one I made had Goose and Mav in the office getting chewed out and the Commander behind him talking in Maverick's ear saying "Now I gotta send you two pricks... To Top DICK."

 

[viperdriver69]

My only advice in your situation would be to look into Navy HSCP. It's another program for.medical school, but you can maintain Tricare for your entire family and accumulate time in service while in medical school. It doesn't pay for tuition, but it pays you as an E7 during school, which will usually cover tuition.

Also, since you are 'enlisted' for 4 years you get the good conduct medal at the end of medical school

Very interesting. I'm actually not familiar at all with HSCP and will do my research. I've seen it thrown around in here but wasn't aware of the difference. Thanks!

 

[viperdriver69]

I agree with the HSCP route because you have so much time in and you can continue to accrue time in service.

Does your wife work? Being O4 you would be making bank during your time at USUHS! It’s just an extra 3 years of payback...haha. But seriously you really can’t beat the lifestyle. Being older and not even started med school I think lifestyle is a huge deal. We had a prior O4 blue angel in my class. He was about 35 while we were going through USUHS together

Yes she's a current Peds Trauma/Sx PA, I initially thought I would shoot for USUHS but I don't know if I'd have the resume for it (GPA, etc.) I am seriously going to apply everywhere to the detriment to my bank account when the time comes and if that's the best/only option I won't scoff it.

 

[viperdriver69]

You are pretty much a slightly younger version of me, but I was Navy and had no kids.

I seriously appreciate the time you put in to making a very detailed response, thank you again.

I did mean Flight Doc, not Aerospace Physiologist (my bad). I think with my barotrauma issue (I had it happen several times and went through the waiver process more than once), dealing with the other side of the whole medical process for several years, I have a very detailed experience that I can use if I come back and be an advocate for the bros. That's literally what I really want to do, because I had some really bad and really good experiences with the whole process, and some really good and really bad flight docs. So I'd love to see what impact I can have for a few years before retiring and moving to the civilian side.

I think the biggest issue for driving remaining in the military is first, Tricare. I have one son (5yo) who was born with Imperforate Anus and having constant colorectal clinic follow-ups (still not sure about the control piece so we're at the daily enema stage) and my 3yo daughter has S3/S4 Spina Bifida (lipomylomeningocele), and Tricare has been a lifesaver. Secondly the piece I just mentioned about being an advocate for fighter pilots. Third, serving and getting a retirement. And lastly, graduating with not a ton of debt... however I'd need to crunch the numbers on just retiring, doing yellow ribbon and GI bill. It may not be as big of a financial burden as I imagine it is for most (well, clearly it's not but I wonder how it'd compare to getting back in). I've read your reply multiple times with my wife and you gave me so much good information for us to plug in to our "family plan calculator". Honestly a touchdown, thanks.

 

[Cooperd0g]

You are in a difficult spot. Your grades make USUHS and other MD schools a reach. There aren’t many DO state schools. You want to maintain TRICARE and want to work with the flight community.

If you give up the goal of working with the flight community then you just wait until you retire and do it civilian.

If you give up TRICARE (maybe your wife can have insurance through her work) then HPSP is easier and will pay for any expensive private school you may get into.

If you don’t want to give up any of that then you shoot for USUHS or go for HSCP. But with HSCP you would still have to give up the AF in favor of the Navy.

 

[Apollyon]

I was Navy

You know what? All this time, I thought you were grungy. I didn't realize you were a squid. Every time I saw you post, I thought of a guy I met at USUHS 25 years ago (when I interviewed) who was straight through from USMA to USUHS, and, as he said, succinctly, "They own me".

For some reason, I thought you were rotary wing.

 

[Cooperd0g]

You know what? All this time, I thought you were grungy. I didn't realize you were a squid. Every time I saw you post, I thought of a guy I met at USUHS 25 years ago (when I interviewed) who was straight through from USMA to USUHS, and, as he said, succinctly, "They own me".

For some reason, I thought you were rotary wing.

Nope, Navy Hornet/Rhino guy. I am an academy guy, but USNA, not USMA. I did my full payback before re-upping with USUHS.

 

[Apollyon]

Nope, Navy Hornet/Rhino guy. I am an academy guy, but USNA, not USMA. I did my full payback before re-upping with USUHS.

Yeah, way back when, I wanted Annapolis, but they didn't want me. West Point DID want me, but I didn't want to be grungy for 4 years. Me and the USAFA didn't even have a cup of coffee. So, took my academic scholarship to VMI (so I didn't owe any time), and that was that.

Thanks again for your service!

 

[Tabiyou]

Nope, Navy Hornet/Rhino guy. I am an academy guy, but USNA, not USMA. I did my full payback before re-upping with USUHS.

That's awesome! I went to USNA, served as an infantry officer, and got out before doing the HPSP route (currently 2d year).

 

[Tabiyou]

What would you do if you were in my shoes, were done flying, have 12 years of service, 34 years old, and really passionately feel medicine is your future? Thanks in advance!

TL;DR - I would do exactly what are you are doing right now.

Incase you would like some background, I went to a service academy as well (I even spent a semester at USAFA!). I am now 31 in my second year at an US MD school in the HPSP. After serving in the Marines for 5 years as an Infantry Officer, I went to my state university for finish my pre-requisite classes to apply. In the two years in between, I worked as a scribe and volunteered as an EMT.

In retrospect, I wish I would not have rushed my classes or studying for the MCAT. At the time I felt old and that I needed to accomplish everything ASAP. First year was rough, but this year has been going so much better since I have refined my studying habits and feel more comfortable with the material.

Based on the information posted, I think you will have to decide what is best for you and your family in terms of a possible scholarship program.

Hopefully I can answer some of your questions: I am currently an O1. I had to resign my commission and complete an inter service request. I am not sure how long an inter service request lasts (Lets say for whatever your intended scholarship program doesn't accept you and you have to apply again the next year).

If you have any other questions, free free to PM me.

 

[viperdriver69]

TL;DR - I would do exactly what are you are doing right now

If you have any other questions, free free to PM me.

Thanks for the response. My new job that I just took is going to allow me to really slow down, focus on studies, and knock the classes and (hopefully) the MCAT out of the park. As I just finished up a semester with another 4.0 gpa it’s starting to feel more real that this isn’t a pipe dream and I might be able to make it happen. My wife and I have talked a little more about potentially even just finishing our military time and then going as a civilian as there’s a new chance I might be able to stay in place until that time. We’ll see, too early to tell. For now I’ll take your advice and keep doing what I’m doing, if I come up with any more questions I’ll definitely shoot you a PM! Thanks again!

 

[SeminoleFan3]

How does the new retirement system play into it if you get out and get back in? Are you still grandfathered under the current pension plan in that regard?

 

[Cooperd0g]

How does the new retirement system play into it if you get out and get back in? Are you still grandfathered under the current pension plan in that regard?

Yes, you are grandfathered in. The type of retirement plan eligibility is based on your DIEMS, found on your LES. It stands for date initially entered military service.

 

[PJATTACK190]

Yes, you are grandfathered in. The type of retirement plan eligibility is based on your DIEMS, found on your LES. It stands for date initially entered military service.

Brand new guy here. Similar situation to Viperpilot69 but I'm closer to retirement. I'm a prior active duty enlisted PJ turned fighter pilot and now full time AGR. I'm an O-4 and will be able to retire in 3.69 years with an active duty retirement at 41 years old. Yes, I know that I'll probably be the oldest guy in my class but Med school is my dream. and I'm going for it. I'm looking at both MD and DO options.

Is HPSP even an option due to my TAFMS? What about retired reserve? Or, should I take my retirement and go straight civilian. My wife used her GI Bill and I transferred mine to the kids. Wife is working with one kid in college and our other is a teenager. I don't know any Med students who are retired military vets so I'm looking for advice from anyone in similar situation.

Thank you

 

[Cooperd0g]

I think if you retire then HPSP or USUHS is likely a non-starter. If you want the military to pay for it then best to get in before you retire.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Retire at 20. Use Voc Rehab to pay for school. Profit

 

[PJATTACK190]

Retire at 20. Use Voc Rehab to pay for school. Profit

I'm not familiar with Voc Rehab. Had to look it up. I'm not sure if I'll qualify but I'll look into it though. Thanks for the reply.

 

[DMBandFan86]

the reserve option would let you keep Tricare (reserve select). Look up MDSSP program for medical school and STRAP for residency. I don't know if you qualify or what your rank would be, but might be something to look in to if you are looking at all options.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Retiring gets him TRICARE and a pension.