FMGs in academic medicine?

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Is it possible for a foreign medical graduate today become a physician scientist or enter into academic medicine. Given the fact that a lot of NIH grants are given to US citizens only, is it possible for foreign medical graduates to get enough funding to enter academia??
Say if a fmg lands into a good oncology fellowship, will they need additional training in a research fellowship of something to land a job in academia, as a physician who performs lab /translational research in university ??

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Is it possible for a foreign medical graduate today become a physician scientist or enter into academic medicine. Given the fact that a lot of NIH grants are given to US citizens only, is it possible for foreign medical graduates to get enough funding to enter academia??
Say if a fmg lands into a good oncology fellowship, will they need additional training in a research fellowship of something to land a job in academia, as a physician who performs lab /translational research in university ??
A strong, productive fellowship (with the endorsement of a well-connected mentor), ability to handle lower pay and willingness to re-locate to where the job may be is enough to enter academia. Running your own lab and getting grants is another level of complexity, however.
 
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I personally know an MD/PhD who did her PhD in the states but her M.D in China. She is currently an academic neurologist at MGH. So yes, it is possible.
 
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Is it possible for a foreign medical graduate today become a physician scientist or enter into academic medicine. Given the fact that a lot of NIH grants are given to US citizens only, is it possible for foreign medical graduates to get enough funding to enter academia??
Say if a fmg lands into a good oncology fellowship, will they need additional training in a research fellowship of something to land a job in academia, as a physician who performs lab /translational research in university ??

Yes it's possible but connections and research productivity matter a lot
 
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Thanks everyone! Do you know what kind of grants they would receive then? Since the NIH largely gives grants(like the K, R0) to US citizens only? (I may be wrong about this)
 
Basically, I'm worried that the lack of PR in the USA will prevent me from entering academic medicine, as I am Indian even getting a green card is a long Process . Please give any input if you can
 
You can hold a R01 or equivalent without US citizenship or PR status, but you can't hold a K or participate in any T or F32. Practically, this means you will never win a R. Your best bet is to get married to a US citizen or be okay with being a clinical educator.
 
You can hold a R01 or equivalent without US citizenship or PR status, but you can't hold a K or participate in any T or F32. Practically, this means you will never win a R. Your best bet is to get married to a US citizen or be okay with being a clinical educator.
Are there NO grants given by private groups or pharma that dont require citizenship? Or is it basically almost impossible to become a physician scientist without a PR?
 
I know a lot of FMGs in academic medicine. My mentor is from Columbia and did her schooling there before coming to the US to do her residency. She’s one of the leaders in her field and even has a wiki page lol. From listening to her story about a million times, you just have to be very deliberate with the path you take by being proactive and not leaving things up to chance. Important to note that when she got her first R01, she was not a US citizen. In other words, this echoes what others are saying, go somewhere you can make good connections and get a pub in a top journal using the funds from one of your mentors grants. The pub should then help you get your own significant grant, ideally from the NIH, and then you’ll be on your way from there. Easier said than done of course.
 
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I know a lot of FMGs in academic medicine. My mentor is from Columbia and did her schooling there before coming to the US to do her residency. She’s one of the leaders in her field and even has a wiki page lol. From listening to her story about a million times, you just have to be very deliberate with the path you take by being proactive and not leaving things up to chance. In other words, this echoes what others are saying, go somewhere you can make good connections and get a pub in a top journal. The pub should then help you get a significant grant, ideally from the NIH, and then you’ll be on your way from there. Easier said than done of course.
Does she not have a PR/green card either? I've also read about many fmgs who are amazing phsyician scientists but i don't know about their citizenship status. The thing is i am from india, and usually the green card process takes more than 12 years for indians and chinese, for others i think the process is quite shorter. I really don't want to have any false expectations going into this
 
Does she not have a PR/green card either? I've also read about many fmgs who are amazing phsyician scientists but i don't know about their citizenship status. The thing is i am from india, and usually the green card process takes more than 12 years for indians and chinese, for others i think the process is quite shorter. I really don't want to have any false expectations going into this

I’m not sure. I think she was just on a Visa at the time but I would have to confirm. I just got back from a conference with her so I wish I asked her then but I’ll check with her the next time we speak. It might be a couple weeks but I’ll keep you posted. Feel free to PM if a lot of time passes in case I forgot and with any other specific questions you might want me to ask her.
 
I’m not sure. I think she was just on a Visa at the time but I would have to confirm. I just got back from a conference with her so I wish I asked her then but I’ll check with her the next time we speak. It might be a couple weeks but I’ll keep you posted. Feel free to PM if a lot of time passes in case I forgot and with any other specific questions you might want me to ask her.
Thanks. Your help is really really appreciated.
 
Yes there are many IMGs in academic medicine because the pay is often lower and the opportunities for IMGs may be limited if there are visa restrictions.
 
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Yes there are many IMGs in academic medicine because the pay is often lower and the opportunities for IMGs may be limited if there are visa restrictions.
Do you still find any foreign grads doing productive research (basic, transnational) with the visa restrictions? There's gotta be more than just nih and federal funding for research right?
 
Do you still find any foreign grads doing productive research (basic, transnational) with the visa restrictions? There's gotta be more than just nih and federal funding for research right?

I've never applied for outside funding. I know my lane and stick to meaningless retrospective reviews.
 
Are there NO grants given by private groups or pharma that dont require citizenship? Or is it basically almost impossible to become a physician scientist without a PR?

You can win private grants/contracts without citizenship, but every top 100 medical school I know requires a R01 for tenure.

The other huge problem is that a school is not going to grant you tenure/a permanent employment contract if you only have a temporary status.

Can you be a permanent clinical assistant professor? Sure, probably! But that’s a different question - along that path you aren’t going to be a leader in your field.
 
You can win private grants/contracts without citizenship, but every top 100 medical school I know requires a R01 for tenure.

The other huge problem is that a school is not going to grant you tenure/a permanent employment contract if you only have a temporary status.

Can you be a permanent clinical assistant professor? Sure, probably! But that’s a different question - along that path you aren’t going to be a leader in your field.
Are clinical assistant professors not allowed to conduct research at all? Or not independently? Sorry Im not familiar with the system
 
I also saw this on the NIH website.
Generally, PIs and other personnel supported by NIH research grants are not required to be U.S. citizens; however, some NIH programs/mechanisms have a citizenship requirement. Any citizenship requirement will be stated in the program announcement (PA) or request for applications (RFA).
Any insights?
 
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I also saw this on the NIH website.
Generally, PIs and other personnel supported by NIH research grants are not required to be U.S. citizens; however, some NIH programs/mechanisms have a citizenship requirement. Any citizenship requirement will be stated in the program announcement (PA) or request for applications (RFA).
Any insights?

You can do your own research as an assistant professor. What the poster was saying is that the institution is unlikely to promote you to a tenured position due to the fact that you might leave the country if you are on a visa, especially with how much immigration laws are constantly in flux, which makes sense. This is mostly important because you have a lot more clout if your an associate professor or professor. Most lab director are full professors. I’m sure you could find an institution who would promote you though if your work is good. This would be important to address prior to accepting the position. At some point you should become a citizen or permanent resident, even if it takes 12 years, at which point you would be fine.

Regarding the grant, you can get pretty much apply for any grant as a noncitizen with the exception of training grants (K category). This might not seem important at the beginning of your career but these grants can be critical if you want to have your own lab or research clinic because they allow you to hire postdocs and other more junior staff. But again, you would be applying for training grants down the line, hopefully after you are a citizen/permanent resident. Here’s a link International Applications | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
 
You can do your own research as an assistant professor. What the poster was saying is that the institution is unlikely to promote you to a tenured position due to the fact that you might leave the country if you are on a visa, especially with how much immigration laws are constantly in flux, which makes sense. This is mostly important because you have a lot more clout if your an associate professor or professor. Most lab director are full professors. I’m sure you could find an institution who would promote you though if your work is good. This would be important to address prior to accepting the position. At some point you should become a citizen or permanent resident, even if it takes 12 years, at which point you would be fine.

Regarding the grant, you can get pretty much apply for any grant as a noncitizen with the exception of training grants (K category). This might not seem important at the beginning of your career but these grants can be critical if you want to have your own lab or research clinic because they allow you to hire postdocs and other more junior staff. But again, you would be applying for training grants down the line, hopefully after you are a citizen/permanent resident. Here’s a link International Applications | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
Hmm. I see your point. Basically, if I really want to establish a career as a physician scientist a PR would help a lot. But the thing is, there's a lot of Indian doctors in the states even in their late 40s without a green card. The backlog we face is insane. The entire process might easily take more than 12 years. So the only option i see is to move to Canada after my fellowship in the USA and hopefully start in academic medicine there. Although, I would have no ties to the Canadian medical system and finding a job in the city is also difficult there I think, so academic career there also might be a problem. But if I get in a good fellowship program in the US and do as much research as I can, get good LORs that might help to get a food position in Canada?
 
Hmm. I see your point. Basically, if I really want to establish a career as a physician scientist a PR would help a lot. But the thing is, there's a lot of Indian doctors in the states even in their late 40s without a green card. The backlog we face is insane. The entire process might easily take more than 12 years. So the only option i see is to move to Canada after my fellowship in the USA and hopefully start in academic medicine there. Although, I would have no ties to the Canadian medical system and finding a job in the city is also difficult there I think, so academic career there also might be a problem. But if I get in a good fellowship program in the US and do as much research as I can, get good LORs that might help to get a food position in Canada?

You can apply for a work permit in Canada via Express Entry (How Express Entry works - Canada.ca), but physicians are at a disadvantage because the system treats someone under 30, unmarried, with a masters degree and 3 years of work experience as optimal. Any deviation from this makes you less competitive. You can sidestep a general work permit with a Provincial Nomination but that usually requires you to take a clinical job in a rural area (e.g.: Home - Health Match BC - British Columbia Physician, Nurse, and Allied Health Recruitment - Canada).

In the, US you can also apply for a EB-1 green card, which only has 5 year backlog (Visa Bulletin For February 2020), but you'd need to be an extraordinary researcher/professor to apply. Basically, your problem is that you will not qualify for training funding and will not initially be famous enough to get a green card. So, bootstrapping yourself to success on H-1B will be very difficult; you'll need a ton of institutional support.

Honestly, most of my colleagues from India/China either married a US citizen or went back home. Everything else is very tough these days.
 
You can apply for a work permit in Canada via Express Entry (How Express Entry works - Canada.ca), but physicians are at a disadvantage because the system treats someone under 30, unmarried, with a masters degree and 3 years of work experience as optimal. Any deviation from this makes you less competitive. You can sidestep a general work permit with a Provincial Nomination but that usually requires you to take a clinical job in a rural area (e.g.: Home - Health Match BC - British Columbia Physician, Nurse, and Allied Health Recruitment - Canada).

In the, US you can also apply for a EB-1 green card, which only has 5 year backlog (Visa Bulletin For February 2020), but you'd need to be an extraordinary researcher/professor to apply. Basically, your problem is that you will not qualify for training funding and will not initially be famous enough to get a green card. So, bootstrapping yourself to success on H-1B will be very difficult; you'll need a ton of institutional support.

Honestly, most of my colleagues from India/China either married a US citizen or went back home. Everything else is very tough these days.
Yeah, the situation in US seems pretty terrible. The only option i see is to find work in Canada. But I have no idea if it's gonna be possible to work my way up to academic medicine after working in rural areas for some years. Will that give me the opportunity to make connections and do research?
 
By the way this is my first time on this forum and you guys have been extremely helpful. Thank you so much for each reply
 
By the way this is my first time on this forum and you guys have been extremely helpful. Thank you so much for each reply

Super happy to help! Most of us aren’t experts but we try to share the knowledge and experience that we have and hope it helps a little! Things will work out, even if they’re not exactly the way you have it envisioned right now
 
Good luck, my friend! One thing to note is that your mentors may not be of much help. Immigration policies have never been so strict as in this administration. As such, employers (including universities and hospitals) don’t really have policies set up to accommodate employees who may have their green card applications denied or will have to wait many years for approval. Many people are simply waiting for November — if a Democrat wins, immigration will get easier; if the Orange Man is re-elected, things may get much harder. Tell your friends to get out an vote!
 
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Thanks guys. Would love to hear from someone who moved to Canada to practice adter training in the US . from what I've heard even Canadian specialists find it hard to land a job in their own country
 
Off the top of my head...














There are literally thousands of others. Not to say it is easy but it has been done. FMG academics have contributed a ton to American medicine.
 
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You can do your own research as an assistant professor. What the poster was saying is that the institution is unlikely to promote you to a tenured position due to the fact that you might leave the country if you are on a visa, especially with how much immigration laws are constantly in flux, which makes sense. This is mostly important because you have a lot more clout if your an associate professor or professor. Most lab director are full professors. I’m sure you could find an institution who would promote you though if your work is good. This would be important to address prior to accepting the position. At some point you should become a citizen or permanent resident, even if it takes 12 years, at which point you would be fine.

Regarding the grant, you can get pretty much apply for any grant as a noncitizen with the exception of training grants (K category). This might not seem important at the beginning of your career but these grants can be critical if you want to have your own lab or research clinic because they allow you to hire postdocs and other more junior staff. But again, you would be applying for training grants down the line, hopefully after you are a citizen/permanent resident. Here’s a link International Applications | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
Do the k99/r00 grants serve the same purpose as K category training grants? They are available for non US citizens too I believe
 
Is it possible for a foreign medical graduate today become a physician scientist or enter into academic medicine. Given the fact that a lot of NIH grants are given to US citizens only, is it possible for foreign medical graduates to get enough funding to enter academia??
Say if a fmg lands into a good oncology fellowship, will they need additional training in a research fellowship of something to land a job in academia, as a physician who performs lab /translational research in university ??
Yes it's possible.
 
1.I've heard that k99/r00 grants are for those who want to transition from a mentored research position to an independent track. So can one pursue those after or during fellowship, and then transition to the position of a professor, or maybe an assistant professor? But wouldn't they still require to apply for R grants as professors?
2.Also can someone explain the difference between the research carried out by assistant clinical professor and clinical professor ? Can you not carry out independent research as an assistant researcher, and if not you still can work alongside other physician scientists on their projects with their grants and fundings?
3. Most research I found assistant professors doing was clinical. Is basic /translational research also possible at this level or is that something only professors do?
 
Off the top of my head...














There are literally thousands of others. Not to say it is easy but it has been done. FMG academics have contributed a ton to American medicine.
These are great examples. Although Dr Rahul Sharma is still an assistant professor, so I'm not aware of the type of research he's doing and Dr Samir has 20 years of experience so he probably has a PR
 
Short answer to the question is that it is definitely possible. Pls see below about a job opening

We have an opening for a paid research fellowship position for 1 year at a well-known academic hospital which is rated among the top 5 in GI by US World News. The fellow will work predominantly in the interventional GI arena and will be mentored by well-known and established names in the field. Our area of research is on pancreas with an interest in other interventional endoscopy procedure outcomes. Our ideal candidate should have good academic skills with an interest in research and gastroenterology. If the fellow is interested in a 2 year position, that can discussed. In that event, the department will pay a significant portion of the tuition for a Master's degree in Health Delivery Sciences. This will be decided on a case-by-case basis. Funding for this position has been secured for the next 10 years and we plan to accept a new fellow every year.

To apply for this position: Pls contact me with a CV at [email protected]. Please send a 100 to 200 word personal statement on what you hope to achieve in this position.

Position start date: 07/01/2020 (flexible).

Here is a description for the position:

About the Research Group
The research group comprises a group of world-class clinicians and researchers, and up-and-coming investigators who are interested in understanding disease mechanisms, early diagnosis, effective managements, and outcomes in upper gastrointestinal (GI) diseases and upper GI cancers. The goal is to decrease morbidity and mortality of patients from these diseases by improving early detection and in providing effective and evidence-based management.

About the Position
Research scientists are chosen from among the best of future researchers with special interest in pursuing an academic career in the evaluation and treatment of pancreatic disorders. The postdoctoral scientist may have a background of internal medicine, gastroenterology, hepatopancreaticobiliary surgery, radiation oncology, or oncology. The postdoctoral scientist will be exposed to cutting-edge topics and research methods in this area.
The postdoctoral position is a full-time appointment for one year and is renewable dependent on the applicant’s progress. Research postdoctoral may have already completed training in or plan to apply for clinical fellowship during their tenure as a postdoctoral scientist. This is a non-clinical position. Applicants must have a proven track-record of academic interest during previous training. Applicants should have an aptitude to learn to design experimental protocols, including detailed data collection, and analysis. Knowledge of safety standards, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), research ethics, human subjects protection, and other mandatory training will be required to commence the job. This program is intended to prepare the individual for a career in academia in medicine, and more specifically in gastroenterology. Scientists will receive hands-on training in writing protocols, manuscripts and grant applications, and in conducting clinical research, with an emphasis on increasing independence.

Postdoctoral scientists are encouraged to apply for Master’s Degree in Health Deliver Sciences. The position will attempt to pay part of tuition costs of this degree. This will be on case-by-case basis and will be based upon the candidate’s performance and experience. Salary will commensurate with ACGME (Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education) PGY-level status. A comprehensive benefits package will be offered per the institution's human resources departmental policy.

Physical Demands: (e.g., lifting, standing, walking) Ability to lift 30 pounds

Responsibilities
  • Acquire thorough technical and theoretical knowledge of research study design, data collection and analyses
  • Maintain appropriate experimental records and documentation, and analyze the results with the Principal Investigator
  • Develop, adapt, and implement new research techniques and protocols
  • Analyze, interpret, summarize and compile data
  • Assist research coordinator/ research associate and other research members
  • Mentor and assist residents/ fellows in completion of research projects
  • Attend and participate in relevant clinical conferences
  • Prepare literature reviews, background research, and other draft content for grant proposals and academic papers
  • Draft project reports, research protocols, and other project documents
  • Standardize and manage large datasets
  • Write a Grant proposals and work towards funding proposed research
  • Attend academic development program
Qualifications
  • MD/DO/MBBS/ or other terminal degree in the study of medicine.
  • Strong academic record
  • Strong interest in research in GI
  • Knowledge of clinical study designs
  • Strong English oral and written communication skills
  • Proficient in Microsoft Office suite (Microsoft Word, Excel, and PowerPoint)
  • Basic skills in data analysis software

Preferred
  • Graduate-level coursework in research methods, epidemiological methods, data analysis, and/or grant writing
  • Excellent English oral and written communication skills
  • Prior experience in clinical research
  • Prior research or professional experience related to data management and statistical analysis

EEO / AA / F / M / Veteran / Disabled
The institution will consider for employment qualified applicants with criminal histories, in accordance with the Los Angeles Fair Chance Initiative for Hiring.
 
RE: grants.
Many complete their PhDs in the US prior to doing (or sometimes re-doing) their residency here. A productive PhD at a decent institution would in most cases provide one with good enough publications to apply for permanent residency through the EB2-NIW or EB1A pathways.
If you're looking to be a physician-scientist then you'd have to have a research track record anyways, either through a PhD or other means. You could use this track record to apply for permanent residency as well as jobs.
If you are spectacular (i.e have Nature/Science/Cell papers) then you can apply for the NIH K99/R00 award, which does not require a green card or citizenship.
 
OP - there are many, many successful PIs and leaders in research that are FMGs. Go to any NIH department and look up the PIs and department heads. Many are not USMDs.

Also, tenure is not important for MDs in academics like it is for PhDs. Tenure really only matters for PhDs because teaching/research is their sole source of income. Clinicians can always fall back to a FTE in the clinic or hospital.
 
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