Follow up from "worth the debt"

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes I agree. It's hard to not get defensive. I feel a lot of us try to remain open the best we can and take the advice that is offered, but why doesn't the delivery matter? I guess I thought this would be more of a supportive group. I think the information about debt is valid and useful for those thinking of entering the field but it just doesn't feel very good to be outright berated sometimes when you are asking for help.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Ok. And do you think what you said was helpful? I think it was rude.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile


I've added many of these guys to a block list. Their attitude is so unnecessary. I suggest you do too. They're they're egotistical trolls who lack even an iota of self awareness. I wonder if they were sleeping through clinical classes lmao.

They're def the type of PIs that yell and talk down to their students and make them have mental health disorders while in grad school! Could you imagine working with these types? Gosh. I see horror stories online and I'm sure these are the type!

Honestly makes me not want to switch even for funding because PI now is a really kind and wonderful man. Total sweetheart. All the PIs at adelphi are. Its such a breath of fresh air even from my previous programs and I'm sure compared to many funded programs if this is the way these people are...

Maybe I'll stay just to avoid the ivory tower attitude lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yes I agree. It's hard to not get defensive. I feel a lot of us try to remain open the best we can and take the advice that is offered, but why doesn't the delivery matter? I guess I thought this would be more of a supportive group. I think the information about debt is valid and useful for those thinking of entering the field but it just doesn't feel very good to be outright berated sometimes when you are asking for help.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

Same here it's really disappointing, especially given the field we are in! I guess the training and education in the north east is a bit different. There's a lot of emphasis here on understanding gender, race, culture, and SES factors influencing proples lives and opportunities. I guess cause ots a very diverse area.

The only program I really have seen professors/researchers act like the way these men are in this forum, extremely full of themselves/people in other programs are beneath them (especially students);were from stonybrook which is like the only funded program in the area.

Its like these people get to teach and have power in funded programs and think everyone else is lower than the **** on their shoe. And it shows. Whether they realize it or not.

I'd expect more from people who were trained and studied psychology but I guess when you get used to reducing people to a cell on SPSS and a grant proposal while grad students are the ones that actually communicate and hear people's struggles, it's easy to lose your humanity and fail to realise there's real people beyond your computer screen with feelings and Hope's and goals and dreams and struggles.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Same here it's really disappointing, especially given the field we are in! I guess the training and education in the north east is a bit different. There's a lot of emphasis here on understanding gender, race, culture, and SES factors influencing proples lives and opportunities. I guess cause ots a very diverse area.

The only program I really have seen professors/researchers act like the way these men are in this forum, extremely full of themselves/people in other programs are beneath them (especially students);were from stonybrook which is like the only funded program in the area.

Its like these people get to teach and have power in funded programs and think everyone else is lower than the **** on their shoe. And it shows. Whether they realize it or not.

I'd expect more from people who were trained and studied psychology but I guess when you get used to reducing people to a cell on SPSS and a grant proposal while grad students are the ones that actually communicate and hear people's struggles, it's easy to lose your humanity and fail to realise there's real people beyond your computer screen with feelings and Hope's and goals and dreams and struggles.
I don't want to make sweeping generalizations as I have received helpful advice from this forum but man, sometimes the comments just seem cruel. I'm not sure if maybe I should just have a thicker skin. I'm not saying everything has to be sugar coated but we all know the difference between assertive, aggressive, and passive communication skills. I really don't know; I want to be open and self reflective, as I know a lot of people on this forum have valuable information to disperse, but sometimes it is difficult to absorb the information, especially when it feels like your character is being attacked. Like I apparently have a horrible and predatory business plan? That is never how I have viewed it nor have others I have discussed it with. If it is predatory then I'm open to hearing why. I'm just a post-doc and I know I have a lot to learn. It just doesn't feel good to be berated. Hang in there OP and I wish you all the success on whatever path you ultimately choose.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
To be fair....sometimes this is said and there is a lot of validity to the statement. I know it can come across as “we walked up hill both ways in the snow with no shoes on”, but many people posting are mentors and/or on admission committees, so their opinions may not be hyperbole. It isn’t our job to candy coat feedback, but it’s also not productive when someone is outright dismissive off the bat.

There can be frustration by new members when they come in and want their opinions confirmed, but instead they are met with different feedback that conflicts with what they want to hear. I’d hope feedback isn’t rude, but much like in person, it does happen.

Sure, sometimes the “this won’t necessarily bode well for you in grad school” point can be valid if someone specifies not dealing well with research, writing papers, reading constantly, schedule limitations, and other intensive activities in grad school. But other times, it is said after advice-seekers become frustrated by the snarky/patronizing feedback that wasn’t necessary. Ultimately, it’s not for us to judge them or their paths, just offer our advice, and hopefully, in a civil way rather than following up with something like “tell me how that works out for you in five years” when they don’t agree with the advice. It can be frustrating, for sure; I just don’t see how the condescension or snarkiness helps. Some may end up figuring things out the hard way, but at least we all try to put the info out there for them and offer our perspectives to help them move forward.

Of course it goes both ways—advice-seekers and posters should be able to keep it civil and keep an open mind. But we as mentors of a sort can set a positive example by keeping things respectful in the first place.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything the OP said, but I do believe that the thread has gone off the rails a bit at times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Sure, sometimes the “this won’t necessarily bode well for you in grad school” point can be valid if someone specifies not dealing well with research, writing papers, reading constantly, schedule limitations, and other intensive activities in grad school. But other times, it is said after advice-seekers become frustrated by the snarky/patronizing feedback that wasn’t necessary. Ultimately, it’s not for us to judge them or their paths, just offer our advice, and hopefully, in a civil way rather than following up with something like “tell me how that works out for you in five years” when they don’t agree with the advice. It can be frustrating, for sure; I just don’t see how the condescension or snarkiness helps. Some may end up figuring things out the hard way, but at least we all try to put the info out there for them and offer our perspectives to help them move forward.

Of course it goes both ways—advice-seekers and posters should be able to keep it civil and keep an open mind. But we as mentors of a sort can set a positive example by keeping things respectful in the first place.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything the OP said, but I do believe that the thread has gone off the rails a bit at times.


A lot of these people were very nasty to me in my original thread 1 even going as far as to say "I feel bad for your mentor if you cant even Google this" and stuff like that so it's why I tried not to engage too much and ask for some other opinions and keep it on topic. I still have some blocked from last thread and as I continue to see the same 4 or 5 people continuing with an attitude and only talking about 1 thing and not the other 6 I brought up it's just clear who dominates this sub.

I'm glad other people finally spoke up though but it's a shame these few condescending rude people dominate this board. It probably turns a lot of people away from participating.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You know, the funny thing about the snarkiness here is that it comes from both sides. While some may be rude in giving advice, often others here will disregard advice much more easily and with a tone that one would never chose to express in real life if speaking to an advisor, professor, or someone with years of experience. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, I think the question that gets lost is where are these opinions coming from and what assumptions are being made. For example, if majority of people that are out in their careers are of one opinion and students, interns, post-docs, and applicants are of another then perhaps that needs to be noted. I was dismissed several times in this thread and the previous one as not knowing anything about the OP's region, training, and payscales for the area. Yet, I lived and worked in that area for years, and I know several Adelphi grads and faculty members actually. If I invited you into my practice, sat you down, and gave the same advice to a would-be doctoral student, would I be dismissed out of hand or treated similarly? Even now, we are talking about males ( the assumption being white ) needing more exposure to race, culture, gender, etc and to not be tone deaf. Who says we are all white? Would you walk up to a black, Hispanic, Asian ,etc male and say this to their face? The truth is that no one here asking advice knows all the details of another poster or their life. That is part of the problem, people assign qualities to other posters without any real qualification. What is a joke to one person is rudeness to another.

As I said before, few people who find this board ask open ended questions and truly want the best advice. They often want us to assure them that they are going to be okay. However, the harsh truth is that you may not be. There are fewer tenure track and staff positions for psychologists than there used to be. Often those positions that exist are exploitative because they can be. People are welcome to take whatever chances they want. If someone here is willing to step up and talk about their experiences going to an expensive program, switching programs when already admitted, or geographically limiting themselves and how it all worked out great than go for it. However, sometimes there are reasons that the opposition is quiet. As for advising people more gently and being more aware of everyone, I do that plenty in real life and work plenty of hours, I come here to blow of stream. The quality of the advice you get from anyone is worth exactly what you pay for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
You know, the funny thing about the snarkiness here is that it comes from both sides. While some may be rude in giving advice, often others here will disregard advice much more easily and with a tone that one would never chose to express in real life if speaking to an advisor, professor, or someone with years of experience. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, I think the question that gets lost is where are these opinions coming from and what assumptions are being made. For example, if majority of people that are out in their careers are of one opinion and students, interns, post-docs, and applicants are of another then perhaps that needs to be noted. I was dismissed several times in this thread and the previous one as not knowing anything about the OP's region, training, and payscales for the area. Yet, I lived and worked in that area for years, and I know several Adelphi grads and faculty members actually. If I invited you into my practice, sat you down, and gave the same advice to a would-be doctoral student, would I be dismissed out of hand or treated similarly? Even now, we are talking about males ( the assumption being white ) needing more exposure to race, culture, gender, etc and to not be tone deaf. Who says we are all white? Would you walk up to a black, Hispanic, Asian ,etc male and say this to their face? The truth is that no one here asking advice knows all the details of another poster or their life. That is part of the problem, people assign qualities to other posters without any real qualification. What is a joke to one person is rudeness to another.

As I said before, few people who find this board ask open ended questions and truly want the best advice. They often want us to assure them that they are going to be okay. However, the harsh truth is that you may not be. There are fewer tenure track and staff positions for psychologists than there used to be. Often those positions that exist are exploitative because they can be. People are welcome to take whatever chances they want. If someone here is willing to step up and talk about their experiences going to an expensive program, switching programs when already admitted, or geographically limiting themselves and how it all worked out great than go for it. However, sometimes there are reasons that the opposition is quiet. As for advising people more gently and being more aware of everyone, I do that plenty in real life and work plenty of hours, I come here to blow of stream. The quality of the advice you get from anyone is worth exactly what you pay for it.
True. And I for my part am going to try to be less reactive/defensive. I think there is valid advice that is direct and not sugar-coated....and then there are comments that just seem downright mean, but obviously that is my personal opinion.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
 
You know, the funny thing about the snarkiness here is that it comes from both sides. While some may be rude in giving advice, often others here will disregard advice much more easily and with a tone that one would never chose to express in real life if speaking to an advisor, professor, or someone with years of experience. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, I think the question that gets lost is where are these opinions coming from and what assumptions are being made. For example, if majority of people that are out in their careers are of one opinion and students, interns, post-docs, and applicants are of another then perhaps that needs to be noted. I was dismissed several times in this thread and the previous one as not knowing anything about the OP's region, training, and payscales for the area. Yet, I lived and worked in that area for years, and I know several Adelphi grads and faculty members actually. If I invited you into my practice, sat you down, and gave the same advice to a would-be doctoral student, would I be dismissed out of hand or treated similarly? Even now, we are talking about males ( the assumption being white ) needing more exposure to race, culture, gender, etc and to not be tone deaf. Who says we are all white? Would you walk up to a black, Hispanic, Asian ,etc male and say this to their face? The truth is that no one here asking advice knows all the details of another poster or their life. That is part of the problem, people assign qualities to other posters without any real qualification. What is a joke to one person is rudeness to another.

As I said before, few people who find this board ask open ended questions and truly want the best advice. They often want us to assure them that they are going to be okay. However, the harsh truth is that you may not be. There are fewer tenure track and staff positions for psychologists than there used to be. Often those positions that exist are exploitative because they can be. People are welcome to take whatever chances they want. If someone here is willing to step up and talk about their experiences going to an expensive program, switching programs when already admitted, or geographically limiting themselves and how it all worked out great than go for it. However, sometimes there are reasons that the opposition is quiet. As for advising people more gently and being more aware of everyone, I do that plenty in real life and work plenty of hours, I come here to blow of stream. The quality of the advice you get from anyone is worth exactly what you pay for it.


Defend these guys all you want but they're not nice people and they dont actually answer the questions being asked, instead they use posts as a way to circle back to themselves to humble brag and also to assert their schtick even if that's not an appropriate answer to what the OP is asking. I was not asking financial advice in this thread.

I was hoping for some dialogue about what I said were pros and cons of my program and my ambivalence about it.

As for advice I was asking for advice on applying to some other programs this cycle.

2 things I opened for discussion but yet all these guys instead talked about things I wasn't here to talk about or ask on and derailed derailed derailed to continue to echo chamber each other about financials I wasn't interested in discussing. Then get butthurt every time I try to shut it down and redirect it to what I wanted to discuss, and then get even more butthurt when i finally just say you know what enough of these narcissistic men give me some women in the field to talk to for christ sake because women tend to actually listen to what other people are saying and respond appropriately rather than view other people's points as a springboard for their own agendas. And if you look through how and what the men talked about here and what the women did. I'm not wrong. The women sete answering my questions and the men were mansplaining things I didn't ask about.

So spare the defense. Its transparent and weak. Y'all just have a problem because I dont sit here and eat your **** attitudes and as I said in my 1st thread, probably are used to the power dynamic of patients and grad students not being able to dall you out on being an a$$.

I'll grit my teeth and bare it in school. But I dont have to here. I'm not going to be an ego boost for these guys to feel better about themselves by squashing someone else.

It's not reactive or defensive to not eat someone else's ****. It's called having dignity which a lot of people in academia like to strip away from their subordinates. You might find it rude to be called out on being rude only because you get away with it and it disrupts your regular power structures.

Also haven't your mothers ever told you you get more flies with honey than you do with ****? Does it hurt to be kind, understanding, and empathetic to those you are trying to guide? I guess it does. It hurts your egos.

The only time I get a tone. Is when I'm fed up with the way y'all are derailing or speaking to me. Keep the **** on topic in a regular way and no one will have any cause to be upset. It's very simple and I'm surprised a bunch of people who allegedly have completed and are working in the field of psychology haven't grasped basic concepts of respectful communication.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Mod Note: As the thread seems to have, unfortunately, moved far astray from the original topic(s), and is now seeming to serve primarily as a source of frustration, I've closed it.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this is a reminder for everyone to please remain civil and professional in your posts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top