Friday thread

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MiniLop said:
Am I allowed to rant for a second? I DON'T CARE I'M GOING TO ANYWAY

I just got fired by the parents of a teen I work with. They have been micromanaging therapy (constantly sending me emails about what we should be focusing on in session), pushing back on suggestions, etc., as part of a pattern where they accommodate the **** out of their kid out of their kid's anxiety and distress. Anyways, I provided them with feedback on this issue and they fired me. It was ugly. This is a frustrating job sometimes.
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Just hope they don’t come back. You don’t want to have to deal with that dynamic solo. Don‘t take on the anxious distress of the family system and enjoy your weekend! Next week you’ll have a kid that you can help and you can put all your energy into that. That’s the advice I give myself and it usually works although I’ll still catch myself stewing on cases like that and replaying conversations if I’m not careful. Usually sneaks up on me at night when I’m supposed to be sleeping. Occupational hazard.
 
MiniLop said:
Am I allowed to rant for a second? I DON'T CARE I'M GOING TO ANYWAY

I just got fired by the parents of a teen I work with. They have been micromanaging therapy (constantly sending me emails about what we should be focusing on in session), pushing back on suggestions, etc., as part of a pattern where they accommodate the **** out of their kid out of their kid's anxiety and distress. Anyways, I provided them with feedback on this issue and they fired me. It was ugly. This is a frustrating job sometimes.
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Well-deserved rant. Sounds like those parents belong in the group referred to in another thread as people exceedingly committed to not meaningfully engaging with therapy.

Hopefully the apple falls far, far away from that tree.
 
Thanks for the kind thoughts, everyone. This situation is giving me a wonderful opportunity to practice all the rumination management techniques I teach in session!
 
MiniLop said:
Thanks for the kind thoughts, everyone. This situation is giving me a wonderful opportunity to practice all the rumination management techniques I teach in session!
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Can you give me some of your fav strategies?
 
borne_before said:
Can you give me some of your fav strategies?
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How many hours do you have? This has been a big thing for me lately. I treat mostly anxiety/OCD and have been on a quest to better address this specific issue, as I think it's a big driver of distress for a large chunk of my clients and isn't dealt with that well in many behavioral approaches/manuals. I don't want to go full Michael Greenberg (who I think is a crank with a few good ideas), but I do think rumination needs to be directly addressed in with a lot of my clients.

So before even touching the rumination/worrying stuff, I work with clients to identify the function of their rumination/worrying and help them identify that they do it with the hope of achieving a goal and that it doesn't actually accomplish that goal. If they're stuck on the idea that they need to ruminate/worry for whatever reason (e.g., "it's the only way to stop me from making the same mistakes again!" etc.), then I don't proceed until they have more insight on that. Then we discuss the nature of thoughts, and how anxiety-provoking thoughts that just pop into your head ("that session went terribly!") are out of your control; trying to stop them from appearing or controlling the emotion they provoke is a losing game, and but how we can choose how we respond to those thoughts and how much attention we give them. Basically, you can't control these involuntary thoughts (and so it's best to accept and tolerate them), but we can control the voluntary thoughts that result from the involuntary thoughts (e.g., having a dialogue with those involuntary thoughts).

First I try to build their awareness of when they're ruminating or worrying; usually we pick a specific time when they're likely to do it and have easy access to a paper/pen, and have them make a tally mark on the paper any time they notice themselves ruminating/worrying. The number of tallies doesn't matter; they just need to improve their ability to catch themselves. Then I review the "am I problem-solving, worrying, or ruminating?" worksheet from the ABBT manual, to help them learn to differentiate worthwhile problem solving from worrying/ruminating (for most of my clients, they're very rarely actually doing useful problem-solving). Then I teach them several skills that we practice in session, and just go with whichever one they like best/works the best: 1) Grounding/5-4-3-2-1 mindfulness (if the worry/rumination is really intense), 2) Sarcastically agreeing with the thought ("that's so true. I'm going to get sick and die and infect everyone I love."), 3) Saying "this isn't helpful." In all cases, I'm coaching them to then shift their attention elsewhere. We practice this a bunch in session.

That was a really long-winded reply to a simple, reasonable question : )
 
MiniLop said:
How many hours do you have? This has been a big thing for me lately. I treat mostly anxiety/OCD and have been on a quest to better address this specific issue, as I think it's a big driver of distress for a large chunk of my clients and isn't dealt with that well in many behavioral approaches/manuals. I don't want to go full Michael Greenberg (who I think is a crank with a few good ideas), but I do think rumination needs to be directly addressed in with a lot of my clients.

So before even touching the rumination/worrying stuff, I work with clients to identify the function of their rumination/worrying and help them identify that they do it with the hope of achieving a goal and that it doesn't actually accomplish that goal. If they're stuck on the idea that they need to ruminate/worry for whatever reason (e.g., "it's the only way to stop me from making the same mistakes again!" etc.), then I don't proceed until they have more insight on that. Then we discuss the nature of thoughts, and how anxiety-provoking thoughts that just pop into your head ("that session went terribly!") are out of your control; trying to stop them from appearing or controlling the emotion they provoke is a losing game, and but how we can choose how we respond to those thoughts and how much attention we give them. Basically, you can't control these involuntary thoughts (and so it's best to accept and tolerate them), but we can control the voluntary thoughts that result from the involuntary thoughts (e.g., having a dialogue with those involuntary thoughts).

First I try to build their awareness of when they're ruminating or worrying; usually we pick a specific time when they're likely to do it and have easy access to a paper/pen, and have them make a tally mark on the paper any time they notice themselves ruminating/worrying. The number of tallies doesn't matter; they just need to improve their ability to catch themselves. Then I review the "am I problem-solving, worrying, or ruminating?" worksheet from the ABBT manual, to help them learn to differentiate worthwhile problem solving from worrying/ruminating (for most of my clients, they're very rarely actually doing useful problem-solving). Then I teach them several skills that we practice in session, and just go with whichever one they like best/works the best: 1) Grounding/5-4-3-2-1 mindfulness (if the worry/rumination is really intense), 2) Sarcastically agreeing with the thought ("that's so true. I'm going to get sick and die and infect everyone I love."), 3) Saying "this isn't helpful." In all cases, I'm coaching them to then shift their attention elsewhere. We practice this a bunch in session.

That was a really long-winded reply to a simple, reasonable question : )
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I really really appreciate it. I’m kind of a ****ty therapist.
 
MiniLop said:
Of course it is! What else would I have been talking about? : )
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Maybe you need to chew on that again!

Also, always consider abuse if someone presents as malnourished with rumination, especially if their caregivers have them on a restricted diet or have issues with making food available. I don’t want to get into a haunting case. But, itll always stay with me.
 
ClinicalABA said:
I know it's Sunday and not the titular Friday of this thread, but I just got home from seeing Bob Mould solo at a local small venue. Insanely good. If he comes to your town, get tickets.
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Was this the tour with J Robbins opening?
 
ClinicalABA said:
Yes. I didn't know J Robbins. He played with just himself and a cellist, and was also very good.
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He was the singer/guitarist for Jawbox, who I like a lot. If you're into Hüsker Dü, it might not be too much of a stretch that you would like Jawbox. Speaking of Hüsker Dü, I love 'em to death but for whatever reason never followed Mould into his solo career.
 
ClinicalABA said:
Do it! When my first born was a baby, I had Fridays off and my wife worked, so I always went out to lunch with the baby.
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I took the kids to a dive bar for very good pretzel bunned hot dogs. Reviews sounded good, but didn't realize it was dive bar! I was pretty fun.
 
MiniLop said:
He was the singer/guitarist for Jawbox, who I like a lot. If you're into Hüsker Dü, it might not be too much of a stretch that you would like Jawbox. Speaking of Hüsker Dü, I love 'em to death but for whatever reason never followed Mould into his solo career. was great. I'll have to check out Jawbox.
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Robbins was very good. I'll have to give Jawbox a listen.
 
ClinicalABA said:
Good to introduce them to the pleasures of a good dive bar at a young age.
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In the city where I went to college, we had several family restaurants (the type of place where you would comfortably bring kids and even have a business lunch) that turned into wild college bars at night.
 
Turned out to be a busy week. Some good stuff some bad stuff. Kinda meh. Not a big fan of treading water, but it beats drowning! Slowly making progress and every bit of progress without having to take insurance is probably bigger than it feels. Looking forward to three day weekend. I need it as the last few months I have been burning candle at both ends.
 
Friday: Face to face work all day.
Saturday: I'll go for a long run, then seclude myself in my office. Got some academic writing, some phone meeting, and maybe I'll tackle the issue of having too many books again. Some dinner plans.
Sunday: Full date day for psylady.
 
I'm in the office today studying for boards and writing reports to avoid family who is visiting for the weekend. Also heard back from the moving company about the estimate for our move this summer and nearly had a stroke. Looking like I'll be renting a Penske truck after all.... Happy Friday, y'all.
 
neurotic_cow said:
I'm in the office today studying for boards and writing reports to avoid family who is visiting for the weekend. Also heard back from the moving company about the estimate for our move this summer and nearly had a stroke. Looking like I'll be renting a Penske truck after all.... Happy Friday, y'all.
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Moving companies are SHOCKINGLY expensive
 
Dazen said:
Moving companies are SHOCKINGLY expensive
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borne_before said:
But so worth it...
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Wish I could afford it... I swore after the last move I'd never do it by myself again. I don't even have that much stuff but they gave me a quote of $20K MINIMUM. And that's with me packing everything myself. My new position is only giving me $6k for moving expenses and I just simply can't afford it. I was expecting it to be high.... but damn.
 
neurotic_cow said:
I'm in the office today studying for boards and writing reports to avoid family who is visiting for the weekend. Also heard back from the moving company about the estimate for our move this summer and nearly had a stroke. Looking like I'll be renting a Penske truck after all.... Happy Friday, y'all.
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I moved 700+ miles from postdoc to my current position - I ended up renting a Uhaul (which my parents thankfully drove) and then hiring local movers in both locations. Way less expensive than a moving company and I found it to be pretty tolerable. I think I used "All My Sons" (or something similar) in both locations. I would recommend against using the companies that Uhaul (or whomever) suggest - I used those in a previous move and they were pretty sketch (at both locations). Good luck!!

Also had about $6k for moving expenses and this definitely fits within that (also paid for my parents flights, hotels, food, and gas for the Uhaul and my vehicle). I got this ok'd with my new dept prior to doing it.
 
szymk1sm said:
I moved 700+ miles from postdoc to my current position - I ended up renting a Uhaul (which my parents thankfully drove) and then hiring local movers in both locations. Way less expensive than a moving company and I found it to be pretty tolerable. I think I used "All My Sons" (or something similar) in both locations. I would recommend against using the companies that Uhaul (or whomever) suggest - I used those in a previous move and they were pretty sketch (at both locations). Good luck!!
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Thanks!! I had a horrific experience with Uhaul during our last move and they were so awful I refuse to use them again lol, which is why I was open to hiring a moving company. I've heard good things about Penske and so I'm gonna give that a shot this time and cross my fingers. I will definitely look into having local movers help load/unload the truck... that's the absolute worst part. Ugh.
 
neurotic_cow said:
Thanks!! I had a horrific experience with Uhaul during our last move and they were so awful I refuse to use them again lol, which is why I was open to hiring a moving company. I've heard good things about Penske and so I'm gonna give that a shot this time and cross my fingers. I will definitely look into having local movers help load/unload the truck... that's the absolute worst part. Ugh.
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If you don't want to drive, you could do a pod and get some day laborer's to help load the big stuff. Pods are awesome too because they're on the ground and easy to load.
 
szymk1sm said:
I moved 700+ miles from postdoc to my current position - I ended up renting a Uhaul (which my parents thankfully drove) and then hiring local movers in both locations. Way less expensive than a moving company and I found it to be pretty tolerable. I think I used "All My Sons" (or something similar) in both locations. I would recommend against using the companies that Uhaul (or whomever) suggest - I used those in a previous move and they were pretty sketch (at both locations). Good luck!!

Also had about $6k for moving expenses and this definitely fits within that (also paid for my parents flights, hotels, food, and gas for the Uhaul and my vehicle). I got this ok'd with my new dept prior to doing it.
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+1, I think private movers to load and unload a truck were like ~$400-500 tops each time and I've moved around ALOT in the past three years.
 
neurotic_cow said:
I had a horrific experience with Uhaul… I've heard good things about Penske and so I'm gonna give that a shot this time and cross my fingers.
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another good Penske story
Moving for grad school was the first time wife and I drove a Penske truck across the country. We also had a second car, a parent from each side, and two cats with us. On a Sunday mid-morning, at a notoriously bad interchange on the outskirts of Des Moines, someone swerved to make an exit and crashed into the truck. No injuries, but the front wheel well was crunched into the tire. We called Penske, they arranged towing to a local shop where they told us we'd have a new truck.

Waiting there was a truck, and a father and his teen age son to help us move all our stuff from one truck to the next. If that wasn't enough, they said they felt bad that it all was taking so long, especially after several days drive, and that we were working during lunch time, so they had pizza delivered. I'm sure they were hungry too. We ate pizza and unloaded/reloaded the truck. When we reached our destination, returning a different truck than we departed with was no problem, they were expecting it and all was taken care of. Penske customer for life.
 
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calimich said:
another good Penske story
Moving for internship was the first time wife and I drove a Penske truck across the country. We also had a second car, a parent from each side, and two cats with us. On a Sunday mid-morning, at a notoriously bad interchange on the outskirts of Des Moines, someone swerved to make an exit and crashed into the truck. No injuries, but the front wheel well was crunched into the tire. We called Penske, they arranged towing to a local shop where they told us we'd have a new truck.

Waiting there was a truck, and a father and his teen age son to help us move all our stuff from one truck to the next. If that wasn't enough, they said they felt bad that it all was taking so long, especially after several days drive, and that we were working during lunch time, so they had pizza delivered. I'm sure they were hungry too. We ate pizza and unloaded/reloaded the truck. When we reached our destination, returning a different truck than we departed with was no problem, they were expecting it and all was taken care of. Penske customer for life.
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Ditto that with Penske
 
Spent the morning speaking harshly to (ok, maybe yelling at) contractors. Week 3 of a 6 day job. Supposed to be a 6 day job with 2 workers. We're going on week 3, with one worker here maybe 3-4 hours per day. Primary worker being pulled off our job 2-3 days per week to give bids on new contracts, when they don't have the staff to complete ours. Following my "persuasive" discussion ended up with 5 guys here til 7pm, with a promise of more on Sunday, job finished by Monday. God's help them if they don't finish- I'm generally a very laid back guy, but I've been without my basement couch (the only one long enough for me to lie on comfortably and is now under a tarp on my deck where I also like to escape to) and my PS5 for a few weeks. Going from 2200 Square ft living space to 1000 ft2, coinciding with up the number of adults living here from 3 to 5 and the number of puppies from 0 to 1, has tested my limits.
 
ClinicalABA said:
Spent the morning speaking harshly to (ok, maybe yelling at) contractors. Week 3 of a 6 day job. Supposed to be a 6 day job with 2 workers. We're going on week 3, with one worker here maybe 3-4 hours per day. Primary worker being pulled off our job 2-3 days per week to give bids on new contracts, when they don't have the staff to complete ours. Following my "persuasive" discussion ended up with 5 guys here til 7pm, with a promise of more on Sunday, job finished by Monday. God's help them if they don't finish- I'm generally a very laid back guy, but I've been without my basement couch (the only one long enough for me to lie on comfortably and is now under a tarp on my deck where I also like to escape to) and my PS5 for a few weeks. Going from 2200 Square ft living space to 1000 ft2, coinciding with up the number of adults living here from 3 to 5 and the number of puppies from 0 to 1, has tested my limits.
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It’s okay to lite a fire under their asses a lil. If you want them done on Sunday, buy a roll of cope, burgers, and a 30 pack of Busch light.
 
borne_before said:
It’s okay to lite a fire under their asses a lil. If you want them done on Sunday, buy a roll of cope, burgers, and a 30 pack of Busch light.
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They've been here all day (Sunday). Bought them a couple of pizza's, some wings, sodas, and a 6er of Miller. They seemed happy about that. I think they are pissed at their boss for screwing up to the point where I complained and they have to work on Sunday, but are somewhat less pissed at me for setting all this in motion. The owner of the company was feeding me a line that the one or two guys she had working on my job for the past few weeks would have everything done by Friday evening (she was saying this at 11am Friday, when there was still nobody here working- One guy showed up around 10 and i heard him yelling at somebody on his phone out in the driveway, and then he took off). I explained to her that there was at least 40 man hours of work left, and pointed out the she was being rather dishonest with me. Gave her a deadline of Wednesday. There were 4 guys here for 6 hours on Friday, and four here today from around 10:30 am and still here at 6pm. Still a bit of work to be done, but good progress. I really hate to get mad at and speak forcefully to people, but I also hate being lied to and taken advantage of. Unfortunately with some people you need to get a bit "yelly" for them to take you seriously.
 
ClinicalABA said:
They've been here all day (Sunday). Bought them a couple of pizza's, some wings, sodas, and a 6er of Miller. They seemed happy about that. I think they are pissed at their boss for screwing up to the point where I complained and they have to work on Sunday, but are somewhat less pissed at me for setting all this in motion. The owner of the company was feeding me a line that the one or two guys she had working on my job for the past few weeks would have everything done by Friday evening (she was saying this at 11am Friday, when there was still nobody here working- One guy showed up around 10 and i heard him yelling at somebody on his phone out in the driveway, and then he took off). I explained to her that there was at least 40 man hours of work left, and pointed out the she was being rather dishonest with me. Gave her a deadline of Wednesday. There were 4 guys here for 6 hours on Friday, and four here today from around 10:30 am and still here at 6pm. Still a bit of work to be done, but good progress. I really hate to get mad at and speak forcefully to people, but I also hate being lied to and taken advantage of. Unfortunately with some people you need to get a bit "yelly" for them to take you seriously.
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Dude, I've done a lot of work with contractors and in the trades myself - don't feel bad about it. They purposely overscheduled and plan on "white collars" to just be okay with dragging the job out. You're paying them good money. They're making good money. Sometimes you just gotta "advocate" for it.
 
Heading up to Maine (Mt. Desert Island) tomorrow for two weeks of tent camping. First week with whole family, second with just me and my spouse (and the puppy, which could be interesting). Been a crazy past two weeks- less than smooth house construction project, new puppy, dog sitting a friends dog for what was supposed to be one week but turned into two and required a mad scramble to find someone for a third week because he was on vaca oversees, tested positive for covid twice and had to quarantine there for two extra week before he will be allowed to travel back to the US. Looking forward to some hiking, canoeing, mountain biking, eating (unfortunately I don't like sea food, so I get to watch the rest of the family eat overpriced lobster rolls), reading, and just hanging out at the camp.
 
Awesome week! Got five clients from a new referral source. Two therapy and three for medication. Part of what my company is doing is providing aftercare services for people leaving residential treatment and this program is literally around the corner from us. The clinical director used to work for me so he trusts me and I gave him a tour two weeks ago and discussed collaboration strategies with him and immediate response.
:biglove:
 
ClinicalABA said:
Heading up to Maine (Mt. Desert Island) tomorrow for two weeks of tent camping. First week with whole family, second with just me and my spouse (and the puppy, which could be interesting). Been a crazy past two weeks- less than smooth house construction project, new puppy, dog sitting a friends dog for what was supposed to be one week but turned into two and required a mad scramble to find someone for a third week because he was on vaca oversees, tested positive for covid twice and had to quarantine there for two extra week before he will be allowed to travel back to the US. Looking forward to some hiking, canoeing, mountain biking, eating (unfortunately I don't like sea food, so I get to watch the rest of the family eat overpriced lobster rolls), reading, and just hanging out at the camp.
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Very jealous, MDI is amazing!! Enjoy the outdoors and relative solitude. Sounds like you’ve earned it
 
first day on campus in 2+weeks. finally answered month old emails, successfully cleared inbox from >110 to 0, returned over-due library books, recycled a bunch of papers. leaving monday for a week in the woods with two little ones.
 
Our AC is on the fritz, but was able to move some things around a bit to get home for the 2-630 window that the HVAC company will come out. It's killer. We were supposed to dip out for a slightly longer weekend in much cooler territory. Hopefully it's just a frozen condenser coil or something. Hopefully, we can still leave tonight 🙁.
 
Currently 49 degrees on the northern coast of Maine (mount desert island). Week one of camping done. Kids left yesterday, so have another week of wife, me, and puppy. It is cold and rainy all day today, so we came into town, doing laundry, and renting a cabin for the night. Back to tent tomorrow! Puppy has been a camping rockstar!
 
Went to my first ever music festival last weekend and had way more fun than expected! Camping out led to some great community and downtime that added to the overall experience. Glad I decided to try one!
 
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