MD & DO Friends with benefits/Early relationsip, Medical school, and Legal documents

[Saga0101]

Hey everyone. I'm currently in medical school. I have been on SDN before, so this isn't my first post.

I'm not a lawyer, and I know this not a lawyer site. although I do know a few "lawyer to doc" people reside here.

That being said, I was wondering if it was possible for someone to come up with their own small contract to avoid child custody or child support in the chance a pregnancy arises?

Could one theoretically write and give a contract to their friends with benefits (or their gf in an early relationship) saying:

"If I get pregnant, I acknowledge that the father "name" does not have any responsibilities, including custody or child support".

signature "....."

Just a regular word document that I could type and print out? Have her sign? No more?

Before I get trolled to death, I have posted and been on SDN as much as the next guy.

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[Gurby]

First.

 

[frosted2]

The New Male Birth Control Shot Is Here, And It Actually Works

 

[IMG69]

You could get a Vasectomy?

 

[Saga0101]

You could get a Vasectomy?

All good advice, most of it troll-y, but that's what I get for posting on an account with 0 messages.

I'm just curious if an actual document like that would hold weight in a court of law.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Translation: “How can I avoid responsibility for sticking my d*** into someone and leave my child without support, overall proving that no woman should have allowed me to get within ten feet of her, let alone stick said d*** into her in the first place?”
Jesus ...and if this person isn’t a troll, they’re actually in med school.
And the actual answer to the question is no, a court would not uphold that. Legally, adults are supposed to take responsibility for their actions.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[mppcc]

Might I suggest abstinence of you are worried about having a child to the point you are going the legal contract route.

 

[ciestar]

Uhm.. wow.

 

[Saga0101]

Translation: “How can I avoid responsibility for sticking my d*** into someone and leave my child without support, overall proving that no woman should have allowed me to get within ten feet of her, let alone stick said d*** into her in the first place?”
Jesus ...and if this person isn’t a troll, they’re actually in med school.
And the actual answer to the question is no, a court would not uphold that. Legally, adults are supposed to take responsibility for their actions.

I'm well aware of the tremendous amount of controversy to the subject in general. I'm not here to discuss the morals of the issue at hand, or what would actually if such a scenario would occur.

Thanks for answering the question, but was wondering why said document would hold no weight?

 

[Saga0101]

Might I suggest abstinence of you are worried about having a child to the point you are going the legal contract route.

Uhm.. wow.

Just like BC is in general, its just another level of comfort.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I'm well aware of the tremendous amount of controversy to the subject in general. I'm not here to discuss the morals of the issue at hand, or what would actually if such a scenario would occur.

Thanks for answering the question, but was wondering why said document would hold no weight?

The morals ARE the issue at hand. And for this exact reason, there are well established laws on paternity on the books in nearly every state. You have no legal right to negotiate away, via contract or otherwise, another human being’s rights to parentage and support.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Saga0101]

The morals ARE the issue at hand. And for this exact reason, there are well established laws on paternity on the books in nearly every state. You have no legal right to negotiate away, via contract or otherwise, another human being’s rights to parentage and support.

I regret posting on this 0 message account. I have no malintent, and would do my role. However, I do think it just feels like a "safety blanket", like BC in general.

I could see why courts could dismiss any home-made legal documents, but I have seen them used in a court of law to some degree of success. Obviously not on this issue though!

 

[precisiongraphic]

I regret posting on this 0 message account. I have no malintent, and would do my role. However, I do think it just feels like a "safety blanket", like BC in general.

I could see why courts could dismiss any home-made legal documents, but I have seen them used in a court of law to some degree of success. Obviously not on this issue though!

IANAL but my understanding of family law is that child support cannot be waived in advance of the birth. This is because the child support is the right of the child (in other words, not the right of the mother or father). See here and here. This is state specific but most will not enforce such an agreement.

 

[Saga0101]

IANAL but my understanding of family law is that child support cannot be waived in advance of the birth. This is because the child support is the right of the child (in other words, not the right of the mother or father).This is state specific but most will not enforce such an agreement.

Thanks!

This paragraph says most of it:

"Child support belongs to a child, so parents cannot agree to waive it—that’s not for parents to decide. While typically only one parent pays child support under a custody order, both parents are financially responsible for their children. A child support order typically requires the noncustodial parent to pay the custodial parent a specific amount each month. These funds should be used to help pay for the child’s food, education, clothing, and shelter."

It also says its "state dependent". Do you know where a list of the states this law would encompass?

 

[precisiongraphic]

Thanks!



It also says its "state dependent". Do you know where a list of the states this law would encompass?

No I think what the attorney is saying is that specific waivers in the custody hearings may differ but that no parent (the law is the same for either) can get away without child support by advance agreement. States enforce support differently.

 

[Saga0101]

No I think what the attorney is saying is that specific waivers in the custody hearings may differ but that no parent (the law is the same for either) can get away without child support by advance agreement. States enforce support differently.

Alright thanks. I will do some digging around, but it does appear that child support can't waived in advanced by either party, regardless of state.

The most I could get out of anything saying otherwise was this statement:

"While nothing is ever 100% certain in the law, it is highly unlikely that such an agreement would be enforceable, as numerous courts across many states have held that a child's right to parental support is not waivable, even if both parents agree."

So, 99.99% chance waiving rights would fail.

 

[Goro]

In before this thread gets chucked to the SPF!

 

[Saga0101]

In before this thread gets chucked to the SPF!

SPF? Sociopolitical forums?

 

[Goro]

SPF? Sociopolitical forums?

Yup. The cesspool of SDN.

 

[atomi]

LOLz. Thank you for keeping this forum entertaining.

99% chance this dude is hooking up with a stripper.

 

[Saga0101]

Yup. The cesspool of SDN.

As they call it, "it would be a good time to practice my people skills over there, because they are so real".

lol.

 

[Saga0101]

LOLz. Thank you for keeping this forum entertaining.

No no, thank you. I've read some of your handy work on the forums. It's a privilege.

 

[Crayola227]

See how you can draft one of these documents for a woman, first. Let me know how it goes.

 

[Saga0101]

99% chance this dude is hooking up with a stripper.

What kind of stripper wants a kid? Definitely going to lower her job prospects.

 

[Saga0101]

See how you can draft one of these documents for a woman, first. Let me know how it goes.

I'm surprised no one has said "Hey Saga, how are you going to get her to sign that", and the answer is "it will definitely kill the mood for a few minutes, no question about that".

 

[Saga0101]

If anyone else has any ideas on how to get out of legal obligations of custody and child support, let me know? It appears the law is sealed pretty tight on this one.

 

[Crayola227]

What kind of stripper wants a kid? Definitely going to lower her job prospects.

Nice try at being funny. Mothers are represented in just about every industry, just like the rest of plebian womankind are. Are you serious? Drank way too much Kool Aid if you have some idea that nulliparous or not is some big impediment to working as an exotic dancer. Like hot women = never pregnant?

In fact, I have it on good authority that plenty of exotic dancers are mothers. The flexibility of the hours really lends itself that way.

 

[Crayola227]

If anyone else has any ideas on how to get out of legal obligations of custody and child support, let me know? It appears the law is sealed pretty tight on this one.

There's plenty of ideas, but all of them are for losers and I hardly want to lower anyone's Darwin Award score by giving them any.

 

[Saga0101]

There's plenty of ideas, but all of them are for losers and I hardly want to lower anyone's Darwin Award score by giving them any.

Name one, I don't think there are any other ideas.

Adoptions, etc. are for afterwards, not before.

 

[Crayola227]

do you really have that little control over your sperm?

 

[Saga0101]

do you really have that little control over your sperm?

Are you talking BC? I've mentioned that several times in this thread.

 

[Crayola227]

Name one, I don't think there are any other ideas.

Adoptions, etc. are for afterwards, not before.

fake identity, man

bros been pulling that one on their baby mommas since the dawn of time

 

[Crayola227]

Are you talking BC? I've mentioned that several times in this thread.

I don't see how an unenforceable piece of paper lowers your risk anymore than overseeing proper condom and spermidicide usage, so I'm not seeing why you can't just handle this risk on your own end

 

[Crayola227]

this just reads as "I don't want to wrap it up, but I don't want to be responsible for baby-making"

and you just don't get to have both

 

[Saga0101]

Nice try at being funny. Mothers are represented in just about every industry, just like the rest of plebian womankind are. Are you serious? Drank way too much Kool Aid if you have some idea that nulliparous or not is some big impediment to working as an exotic dancer. Like hot women = never pregnant?

In fact, I have it on good authority that plenty of exotic dancers are mothers. The flexibility of the hours really lends itself that way.

Your thread on "how to have sex with a dentist" was far more interesting than my thread.

 

[precisiongraphic]

If anyone else has any ideas on how to get out of legal obligations of custody and child support, let me know? It appears the law is sealed pretty tight on this one.

I'm really hoping you're not a doctor or really in med school...

A friend of mine got a woman pregnant and paid for the full 18. The woman went on to have three more kids by three different - but unidentified - men. My friend was the only one who she was able to pin it on.

Anonymous hook-ups are all you have and even then with DNA detectives you may not be safe.

I feel like I need a shower after answering these questions.

 

[Saga0101]

I don't see how an unenforceable piece of paper lowers your risk anymore than overseeing proper condom and spermidicide usage, so I'm not seeing why you can't just handle this risk on your own end

this just reads as "I don't want to wrap it up, but I don't want to be responsible for baby-making"

and you just don't get to have both

She is actually on pills (or she says so anyway), and using protection is a must, and pulling out half the time with protection is something we do.

So we have 3 forms of BC going (sometimes only 2), and maybe only 1 (if she takes pills poorly).

1. Pills (but I can never be sure she takes them right)
2. Condoms (100% of time)
3. Puling out while using condom (50% of time).

I'm just a worried guy sometimes. No harm.

 

[Saga0101]

I'm really hoping you're not a doctor or really in med school...

A friend of mine got a woman pregnant and paid for the full 18. The woman went on to have three more kids by three different - but unidentified - men. My friend was the only one who she was able to pin it on.

Anonymous hook-ups are all you have and even then with DNA detectives you may not be safe.

I feel like I need a shower after answering these questions.

Again, many assumptions here! Feel bad for your friend, but glad he did his part and didn't worry about it.

Hookups are risky, but having a gf early in a relationship can lend itself to many questions as well.

Shower away! These questions can be dirty, but the legalities are an important thing to consider when having sex.

 

[Crayola227]

Your thread on "how to have sex with a dentist" was far more interesting than my thread.

 

[Saga0101]

Dunno what the probabilities are, but I assume if pills, condoms, and pulling out are done correctly, then its 99.999% chance of success.

However, if the girl is taking pills poorly/not at all, the condom slips while trying to pull out, then the chances just skyrocket. And that's not that unlikely of a scenario. That would be 0 BC methods and could happen.

Now its what, worst-case scenario 25-30% chance of pregnancy on the right day? That's how you can go from 3 BC to 0 BC in a moments time.

 

[Crayola227]

Dunno what the probabilities are, but I assume if pills, condoms, and pulling out are done correctly, then its 99.999% chance of success.

However, if the girl is taking pills poorly/not at all, the condom slips while trying to pull out, then the chances just skyrocket. And that's not that unlikely of a scenario. That would be 0 BC methods and could happen.

Now its what, worst-case scenario 25-30% chance of pregnancy on the right day? That's how you can go from 3 BC to 0 BC in a moments time.

I'm sort of following you.

Think of it this way. There is no waiver to sign away the risk, where if you are skateboarding down the street at 70 mph wearing a helmet and crash, your brains don't get scattered all over the pavement.

You are engaging in a physical activity. As much as the medicolegal system tries, the consequences to that can't just be accounted for by paper or math or stats or pulling it out.

If you go out onto the pavement, getting creamed is just always a possibility. God damn it why do the things I type come out like this. All right I'm gonna try to get some sleep

 

[Crayola227]

I mean, since I'm a woman it might seem like in your scenario I have the ultimate control..... in that I can choose to have an abortion or birth another human being. Gee, why can't I have a piece of paper for that? I mean, if I ****, it's basically going to be on me whatever I choose. We all have choices and consequences we can't get out of, deets may change but there it is.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

She is actually on pills (or she says so anyway), and using protection is a must, and pulling out half the time with protection is something we do.

So we have 3 forms of BC going (sometimes only 2), and maybe only 1 (if she takes pills poorly).

1. Pills (but I can never be sure she takes them right)
2. Condoms (100% of time)
3. Puling out while using condom (50% of time).

I'm just a worried guy sometimes. No harm.

If you actually do the pull-out method correctly, meaning... you actually pull out - odds of pregnancy are nil. Pre-semen has no true viable sperm.

 

[Iz_FtB]

A forum filled with some of the brightest that humanity has to offer and no one has suggested the poop hole loophole yet smh

 

[Crayola227]

Sounds like some trust is needed. If she's so bad with her OCPs, has she considered methods that are more forgiving? Let me rephrase so not personal medical advice. There are more than one ways for a women to prevent ovulation/conception.

The two of you can even still practice safe sane consensual fluid exchange with no risk of pregnancy. It doesn't have to be all PIV sex.

The next bit about trust, have you two discussed what to do in case of pregnancy?

 

[Crayola227]

A forum filled with some of the brightest that humanity has to offer and no one has suggested the poop hole loophole yet smh

you ninjad me by seconds

but while I didn't list that specifically, what I suggested is far more comprehensive

 

[Crayola227]

If you actually do the pull-out method correctly, meaning... you actually pull out - odds of pregnancy are nil. Pre-semen has no true viable sperm.

Not exactly true, but more problematic is that some true ejaculate can already have been released prior to feeling the need to/actually pulling out, which is why it fails more than speaking about pre cum

 

[Saga0101]

I'm sort of following you.

Think of it this way. There is no waiver to sign away the risk, where if you are skateboarding down the street at 70 mph wearing a helmet and crash, your brains don't get scattered all over the pavement.

You are engaging in a physical activity. As much as the medicolegal system tries, the consequences to that can't just be accounted for by paper or math or stats or pulling it out.

If you go out onto the pavement, getting creamed is just always a possibility. God damn it why do the things I type come out like this. All right I'm gonna try to get some sleep

I mean, since I'm a woman it might seem like in your scenario I have the ultimate control..... in that I can choose to have an abortion or birth another human being. Gee, why can't I have a piece of paper for that? I mean, if I ****, it's basically going to be on me whatever I choose. We all have choices and consequences we can't get out of, deets may change but there it is.

Yes, the risk is always there, and I agree that it can happen. If she somehow gets pregnant on 2-3 BC methods, then that's a miracle (also didn't think about it before, but spermicide on my condoms are kind of considered another BC?).

The ball is most definitely in her court, as she knows the outcomes much, much better than I could even predict. Only she knows if she's taking pills correctly, and only she knows if she would consider abortion an option.

To me, all I really have is condom and the pull out method. If the condom breaks/slips while pulling out (which has happened before, and is the most likely time to happen), then suddenly I lose all control of the situation. I have 0 BC's on my behalf if that happens.

The legal document would have just given me some control back and put me at ease. But I see that its not even an option right now.

Maybe I do worry too much. But that's where I'm coming from.

 

[Crayola227]

Yes, the risk is always there, and I agree that it can happen. If she somehow gets pregnant on 2-3 BC methods, then that's a miracle (also didn't think about it before, but spermicide on my condoms are kind of considered another BC?).

The ball is most definitely in her court, as she knows the outcomes much, much better than I could even predict. Only she knows if she's taking pills correctly, and only she knows if she would consider abortion an option.

To me, all I really have is condom and the pull out method. If the condom breaks/slips while pulling out (which has happened before, and is the most likely time to happen), then suddenly I lose all control of the situation. I have 0 BC's on my behalf if that happens.

The legal document would have just given me some control back and put me at ease. But I see that its not even an option right now.

Maybe I do worry too much. But that's where I'm coming from.

I feel ya bro. You might not be comfortable having sex with someone in a relationship where you are both not able to fully communicate all of your values regarding family planning, like what each of you envisions yourself doing in the case of pregnancy.

 

[Saga0101]

Not exactly true, but more problematic is that some true ejaculate can already have been released prior to feeling the need to/actually pulling out, which is why it fails more than speaking about pre cum

I've read research articles talking about pre-cum validity. There aren't many, but of the ones I've read, its said its so rare that they've never had a case confirmed this to be true, although its unknown (how would you even know if someone from the general population was impregnated this way?). Some people do have live sperm in their pre-cum, but the volumes are so low that the chance of pregnancy seems to be negligible.

PS -- there was a time when I worried about this, so I did a lot of digging.