Go To The Cheaper School - A Cost Analysis

[UltimateHombre]

First off, sorry for the length of this post, it just takes a while to discuss this matter.

Every year around this time, there are a ton of threads like "This school vs. that school". And many students are constantly asking for cost/benefit analysis on certain schools. This thread is to serve as a guide on making one of the biggest financial decisions of your life. No offense, but most of you (myself included) has no concept of money or the real world. So here are a few things to think about.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought when it comes to making a decision as to where you will attend dental school: those who say "attend where you will be the happiest or get the best education" and those who say "go wherever is cheapest". After being on this site for over 3 years now and discussing this matter with well over 10 dentists, 2 lawyers, and a financial adviser, i decided that i am a proponent of the "cheapest" way of thinking. As it turns out, most seasoned dentists will also tell you this... this is because they have been in the real world, understand money, and have felt the effects of debt on everyday life.

Before i continue, i don't mean to be "doom and gloom". I think dentistry is a great field and can provide a great life, but we need to be smart about it.

Here are 3 scenarios (includes cost of living and tuition):

Loan Rate Calculator: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

School A Loan Term = 200K @ 7.9% for 20 years
Monthly Payment = $1660
Total Interest Paid = $198,500
Total Paid = $398,500

School B Loan Term = 300K @ 7.9% for 20 years
Monthly Payment = $2490
Total Interest Paid = $297,700
Total Paid = $597,700

School C Loan Term = 400K @ 7.9% for 20 years
Monthly Payment = $3320
Total Interest = $397,000
Total Paid = $797,000

So remember that when a school is 50K cheaper, down the road it is actually 100K cheaper with interest. If it is 100K cheaper, it is actually 200K cheaper down the road. Is happiness, new technology, or better city to live in really worth an extra 200K? You realize that is the price of a house right? The fact is, you might be happier for 4 years of dental school, but you will be unhappy paying more for the next 20 years of your life.

Here is a realistic scenario of what yearly finances will look like your first year out of dental school. Of course these vary by region, but it is a good general look. Adapted from: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=866015

Starting salary of new grad = $120,000
Taxes at 28% = $33,000
Loan Payments on 300K = $30,000
Insurance Cost (Health, Disability, Malpractice) = $7,000

So... 120,000 - 33,000 - 30,000 - 7,000 = 50,000

After all is said and done you will have only 50K of disposable income a year.... That might seem like a lot to you now, but i promise it doesn't get far. Consider:

Mortgage of $1,500 a month = $18,000
Car Payment of $420 a month = $5,000
Car Insurance / Gas = $2,500
Utilities = $2,500

So now.... 50,000 - 18,000 - 5,000 - 2,500 - 2,500 = 22,000

That's for everything else. That is not much. Especially if you are providing for a family. Do yourself a favor and save where you can... go to the cheapest dental school!!!

Also, SDN legend Bereno put together a very comprehensive excel spreadsheet where you can include every meaningful statistic and budget well into the future. Make sure you use it when you compare dental school numbers. It's one of the best tools on SDN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=868931

Next, please read this article in the New England Journal of Medicine on the cost of medical profession education. It discusses the dangers in rising medical education costs and the problems associated with a bubble market.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1310778

Now after crunching numbers and reviewing bubble markets, go to Dental town, make an account and read these threads:

http://www.towniecentral.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=109&t=176212&v=1
http://www.towniecentral.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=136&t=193522&v=1

Look at what all the dentists are saying... the general consensus says: "if i had to pay 300K for my dental degree, i would either join the military or choose a different profession, being a dentist is not worth it for that amount." That is pretty significant, considering over 50-100 dentists replied.

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[Titus Times]

Only thing is that I think you can expect to be paying a bit more than 28% in taxes when its all said and done. I think 28% is just federal but after everything, its more like 35-43% of your gross income of 120k.

Yeah I know it just gets rougher and rougher smh.

 

[sacapuntas]

Only thing is that I think you can expect to be paying a bit more than 28% in taxes when its all said and done. I think 28% is just federal but after everything, its more like 35-43% of your gross income of 120k.

Yeah I know it just gets rougher and rougher smh.

Not true from my experience, I think 28 is already a conservative number.


Good post hombre!

 

[RedRoze]

yeah it's expensive, but I think it's still great that after everything, I'm banking $22,000 a year, not many jobs can do that for you. Most jobs just pays the bills, if I can have 22k leftover than nothing is wrong. JMO

 

[toastybread]

If we replaced the word "dental school" with the word "house" I think we'd all think about it much, MUCH differently.

"Should I choose the 200K house or the 350K house?"

 

[Sal427]

Thank you for this info!

 

[Bereno]

Only thing is that I think you can expect to be paying a bit more than 28% in taxes when its all said and done. I think 28% is just federal but after everything, its more like 35-43% of your gross income of 120k.

Yeah I know it just gets rougher and rougher smh.

that 35-43% is a marginal tax rate. The effective tax rate is likely to be around that 28% number.

Solid post Hombre

 

[free99]

Mortgage of $1,500 a month = $18,000
Car Payment of $420 a month = $5,000
Car Insurance / Gas = $2,500
Utilities = $2,500

So now.... 50,000 - 18,000 - 5,000 - 2,500 - 2,500 = 22,000

Great post, I think it really puts the cost of school (and everything else) into perspective for a lot of folks who are so starry eyed about the idea of becoming a dentist, they tend to forget about the practicality of it all.

I think these costs are also important to note:

Food - $300/month (maybe a little low?) x 12 = $3600
Internet/Cable - $100/month x 12 = $1200
Cell Phone - $50/month x 12 = $600
Emergency reserve (car repairs, home maintenance, anything else unexpected) - $100/month (??) - $1200

$22,000 - 3600 - 1200 - 600 - 1200 = $15,400

Like someone else mentioned above - A take home of 15k, after all your other expenses is nothing to complain about. I think it's just a matter of living within your means and making informed, deliberate decisions.

 

[RickCo]

Edit: I'm an idiot!

 

[ushaseos]

This is an EXCELLENT post. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this stuff.

 

[Gmdent107]

Great post, I think it really puts the cost of school (and everything else) into perspective for a lot of folks who are so starry eyed about the idea of becoming a dentist, they tend to forget about the practicality of it all.

I think these costs are also important to note:

Food - $300/month (maybe a little low?) x 12 = $3600
Internet/Cable - $100/month x 12 = $1200
Cell Phone - $50/month x 12 = $600
Emergency reserve (car repairs, home maintenance, anything else unexpected) - $100/month (??) - $1200

$22,000 - 3600 - 1200 - 600 - 1200 = $15,400

Like someone else mentioned above - A take home of 15k, after all your other expenses is nothing to complain about. I think it's just a matter of living within your means and making informed, deliberate decisions.

time for a vacation

 

[petro244]

Great info, but who spends 20 years paying back their dental school loans?

Raise your monthly payment, cut down on interest by shortening payback.....?

Does anyone know how long l=most people spend paying back their loans?

I know most people think 10 years, but even this seems very long.

 

[Bereno]

Great info, but who spends 20 years paying back their dental school loans?

Raise your monthly payment, cut down on interest by shortening payback.....?

Does anyone know how long l=most people spend paying back their loans?

I know most people think 10 years, but even this seems very long.

I imagine that most start out at the maximum duration and as their income grows, so does their payment. This is what I plan on doing.

 

[Bifenthrin]

I imagine that most start out at the maximum duration and as their income grows, so does their payment. This is what I plan on doing.

This. I plan to initially start on a 30 year payment track. Once I have my business set up and can afford to do so, I will increase payments as much as is reasonable to pay back sooner.

 

[dentalwannabe]

Great post, except hoping to make 120k your first year out is a bit...hopeful.

 

[UltimateHombre]

If we replaced the word "dental school" with the word "house" I think we'd all think about it much, MUCH differently.

"Should I choose the 200K house or the 350K house?"

I completely agree. Really makes you think...

Food - $300/month (maybe a little low?) x 12 = $3600
Internet/Cable - $100/month x 12 = $1200
Cell Phone - $50/month x 12 = $600
Emergency reserve (car repairs, home maintenance, anything else unexpected) - $100/month (??) - $1200

$22,000 - 3600 - 1200 - 600 - 1200 = $15,400

15K is still not a lot. Remember this is based on a 300K loan, what if you need to spend an extra 8K, because your loan is 350K? Then by the time you put 6K in the retirement account... leaves you very little. Finally, i left 1500 for rent, that is not much at all, especially if you live in a very large metro area or need a bigger house than 1400 sq ft.

Great info, but who spends 20 years paying back their dental school loans?

Raise your monthly payment, cut down on interest by shortening payback.....?

Does anyone know how long l=most people spend paying back their loans?

I know most people think 10 years, but even this seems very long.

As it was answered earlier. Most people can't afford to start a 10 year pay plan. Your payments would be upward of 3500-4000 a month. The math simply wont add up. Most dentists will pay more for as their income increases and allows. Furthermore, as you make more money, there may be better uses for your money than paying your loans. Ex: If you have a ETF or other retirement account yielding 12-15%, your money is being put to better use versus paying loans. So some dentists will still stretch out the payments.

Great post, except hoping to make 120k your first year out is a bit...hopeful.

It seems that most places, except SoCal and NYC, will start new grads off with a 450-500 a day guarantee or more if their production exceeds their goal. At 5 days a week, you are looking at 120K. If you work 6 days a week, add another 10-20K.

 

[gryffindor]

If we replaced the word "dental school" with the word "house" I think we'd all think about it much, MUCH differently.

"Should I choose the 200K house or the 350K house?"

It's not a similar comparison at all. Everyone has to pay for housing their whole life. A house is an asset. The $350k house might come with a lot more tangible features than the $200k house like a bigger kitchen or better schools. If you have to move, you can sell the house, recoup some of your costs or maybe even make a profit. In contrast, a DDS degree is treated the same no matter where you go to school and no matter how much you paid for the degree. It is an expense only for 4 years. You can not sell your degree afterwards, you are stuck with what it cost you to obtain the degree for as long as it take you to repay your loan. And if times get really tough and you have to declare bankruptcy, the student loan can not be discharged in bankruptcy, the home mortgage can. Big difference.

 

[UCSFx2017]

It's not a similar comparison at all. Everyone has to pay for housing their whole life. A house is an asset. The $350k house might come with a lot more tangible features than the $200k house like a bigger kitchen or better schools. If you have to move, you can sell the house, recoup some of your costs or maybe even make a profit. In contrast, a DDS degree is treated the same no matter where you go to school and no matter how much you paid for the degree. It is an expense only for 4 years. You can not sell your degree afterwards, you are stuck with what it cost you to obtain the degree for as long as it take you to repay your loan. And if times get really tough and you have to declare bankruptcy, the student loan can not be discharged in bankruptcy, the home mortgage can. Big difference.

I agree. Your degree should be seen as a fixed cost, over ten or more years, rather than as an investment. It doesn't increase in value. What does increase in value is experience after dental school. In fact, with accruing interests, your degree depreciates in value, costing you more and more each month.

 

[Bereno]

The house loan example is a poor, yet effective example nonetheless. It is clear that they are different in how we look at their value (you can sell, and sometimes even make profit from the house, not so much with the student loan). The fact is that the DDS/DMD is of essentially the same value no matter where you got it from, or when you got it. This is because anyone with the degree can practice dentistry just like everyone else with that same degree - every dentist has the same earning possibilities as the next. Knowing that people are fairly critical of the cost of a house (which you are able to sell and/or dump it), it is reasonable to assume that the relatively fixed value degree should hold up to even greater price scrutiny...

All said and done, a lot of predents (not all) do not comprehend what it will be like to live with the kind of debt they will be taking on. Any sort of example, good or bad, that helps them see the weight of this financial decision is valuable in my book.

 

[Shazzam]

Great post, I think it really puts the cost of school (and everything else) into perspective for a lot of folks who are so starry eyed about the idea of becoming a dentist, they tend to forget about the practicality of it all.

I think these costs are also important to note:

Food - $300/month (maybe a little low?) x 12 = $3600
Internet/Cable - $100/month x 12 = $1200
Cell Phone - $50/month x 12 = $600
Emergency reserve (car repairs, home maintenance, anything else unexpected) - $100/month (??) - $1200

$22,000 - 3600 - 1200 - 600 - 1200 = $15,400

Like someone else mentioned above - A take home of 15k, after all your other expenses is nothing to complain about. I think it's just a matter of living within your means and making informed, deliberate decisions.

Honestly, I would say you would break even at best. Your figure of 300 dollar a month can easily work for someone who is single but if you have a family you're definitely underestimating it. Additionally, you'll probably want to stick some of that income in a retirement plan and put some $ in the bank for the practice. Not to mention we didn't include basics like furnishing a home, clothes, all the little things you need (soap, toilet paper, lotion, etc...), and about a dozen other expenses.

 

[free99]

15K is still not a lot. Remember this is based on a 300K loan, what if you need to spend an extra 8K, because your loan is 350K? Then by the time you put 6K in the retirement account... leaves you very little. Finally, i left 1500 for rent, that is not much at all, especially if you live in a very large metro area or need a bigger house than 1400 sq ft.

Agreed - I think anything much over 300K, for me at least, is not financially viable. For those who don't already have this, I attached a cost of attendance .pdf, which came from the 2011 ADEA guide - It's a helpful resource when trying to quickly eliminate schools that are out of the price range.

Honestly, I would say you would break even at best. Your figure of 300 dollar a month can easily work for someone who is single but if you have a family you're definitely underestimating it. Additionally, you'll probably want to stick some of that income in a retirement plan and put some $ in the bank for the practice. Not to mention we didn't include basics like furnishing a home, clothes, all the little things you need (soap, toilet paper, lotion, etc...), and about a dozen other expenses.

Definitely - I'm looking at it from my perspective, not having to provide for children. The small things add up, but so do the savings if you're smart about what you buy/where you buy it. The reality is that, depending on how much debt you take on, you may have to live a modest lifestyle until you get some payments under your belt (living with room mates, cooking at home more often, driving a hyundai and not an audi, buying the 1-ply TP , etc.)

 

[Bifenthrin]

It seems that most places, except SoCal and NYC, will start new grads off with a 450-500 a day guarantee or more if their production exceeds their goal. At 5 days a week, you are looking at 120K. If you work 6 days a week, add another 10-20K.

Where are you getting this information?

Also, what can a new grad in NYC expect to start off with? I've tried looking it up but couldn't find anything too useful..

 

[Shazzam]

Definitely - I'm looking at it from my perspective, not having to provide for children. The small things add up, but so do the savings if you're smart about what you buy/where you buy it. The reality is that, depending on how much debt you take on, you may have to live a modest lifestyle until you get some payments under your belt (living with room mates, cooking at home more often, driving a hyundai and not an audi, buying the 1-ply TP , etc.)

It's a corvette life for me. Being single brings joy to my heart sometimes.

 

[UltimateHombre]

Where are you getting this information?

Also, what can a new grad in NYC expect to start off with? I've tried looking it up but couldn't find anything too useful..

Having been on here for several years, 120K seems to be the number that is thrown around most as a starting salary. I read the dental and resident forums often, and many people will post their offers on there asking for feedback, they are usually around those same numbers.

Furthermore, the last couple of years i have looked through the Craigslist job postings for dentists in my area (Phoenix, Las Vegas, Dallas, Denver) and 450-600 seems to be the daily guarantee for most of those postings.

Then, if you consider that the BLS average for employee dentists, ie: associates, public health, military, etc. (does not include practice owners) is 146K, it is not hard to believe that 120K is the going rate for new dentists.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/dentists.htm

Lastly, I don't know much about SoCal and NY areas, as i have no intentions of ever practicing there. But from what i have read, those areas seem to be very over saturated with dentists. Thus driving up the competition and driving down reimbursements. Take it with a grain of salt though, because there are very successful dentists in each area.

I have also read through these threads in their entirety a couple times. It will take you hours, but you will learn A LOT!! Highly recommend it when you have the time:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=739665
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=636129
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=892435
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=854200
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=918404

 

[HopefulDMD88]

In choosing one of the more expensive schools, it entirely depends on your scenario. Looking at the student loan options that students take going to Tufts, for instance, shows that almost 25% of students graduate without any debt. Those lucky individuals had the choice to go wherever they wanted regardless of tuition or living expenses.

In my case, I have to either go to an expensive private dental school or never be a dentist. It's as simple as that; I only got into the expensive ones (go figure). I'm older, and my wife's career is starting to blossom, so I can't "hold her back" any longer by not allowing us to settle down somewhere.

Luckily, my wife has a respectable career so we've decided to live off of her salary after I graduate and dedicate 80-100% of my income into paying back loans. This should take care of my loans way before the 10 year mark. I'll probably lean more towards the 80% and put the rest in savings or provide more living comforts.

Long story short, some people will be able to handle $400K in debt. Some won't. If you are paying back all of your expensive loans without any help and only your salary (and even worse, having to support a family), and are by any means on the fence about a career in this field, I hope to God you are looking at other options.

 

[ushaseos]

In choosing one of the more expensive schools, it entirely depends on your scenario. Looking at the student loan options that students take going to Tufts, for instance, shows that almost 25% of students graduate without any debt. Those lucky individuals had the choice to go wherever they wanted regardless of tuition or living expenses.

In my case, I have to either go to an expensive private dental school or never be a dentist. It's as simple as that; I only got into the expensive ones (go figure). I'm older, and my wife's career is starting to blossom, so I can't "hold her back" any longer by not allowing us to settle down somewhere.

Luckily, my wife has a respectable career so we've decided to live off of her salary after I graduate and dedicate 80-100% of my income into paying back loans. This should take care of my loans way before the 10 year mark. I'll probably lean more towards the 80% and put the rest in savings or provide more living comforts.

Long story short, some people will be able to handle $400K in debt. Some won't. If you are paying back all of your expensive loans without any help and only your salary (and even worse, having to support a family), and are by any means on the fence about a career in this field, I hope to God you are looking at other options.

You're right. Some people in the right circumstances will be able to handle such heavy loans. In your case the support of your wife will be invaluable! Ultimately, all these threads can only give us information and people like you with concrete plans will manage your finances well, and reckless people will mange to completely screw up theirs.

My situation is quite different so I have to take a different route, but regardless, the information in the post by Hombre is fantastic. I don't think I'll need 20 years to pay the loans but its good to know the worst possible outcome and be prepared for that.

 

[iDentastic]

In choosing one of the more expensive schools, it entirely depends on your scenario. Looking at the student loan options that students take going to Tufts, for instance, shows that almost 25% of students graduate without any debt. Those lucky individuals had the choice to go wherever they wanted regardless of tuition or living expenses.

In my case, I have to either go to an expensive private dental school or never be a dentist. It's as simple as that; I only got into the expensive ones (go figure). I'm older, and my wife's career is starting to blossom, so I can't "hold her back" any longer by not allowing us to settle down somewhere.

Luckily, my wife has a respectable career so we've decided to live off of her salary after I graduate and dedicate 80-100% of my income into paying back loans. This should take care of my loans way before the 10 year mark. I'll probably lean more towards the 80% and put the rest in savings or provide more living comforts.

Long story short, some people will be able to handle $400K in debt. Some won't. If you are paying back all of your expensive loans without any help and only your salary (and even worse, having to support a family), and are by any means on the fence about a career in this field, I hope to God you are looking at other options.

Wait, you're saying 25% of dental students at Tufts graduate with ZERO debt??? How is that number even possible. Only about 11% (20 students) account for the HPSP program and graduate without any debt. That means the other 23-24 dental students paid the full 380k BY the time they graduated, through some sort of external support (rich family, spouse, etc.)? My parents are willing to fund my room and board (~80k) but the entire freaking bill.... that's absolutely insane.

 

[UltimateHombre]

Bump.... An important read for those making decisions this time of year. Congrats to all who were accepted!

 

[lwen5]

Bump.... An important read for those making decisions this time of year. Congrats to all who were accepted!

lol. This is a very timely bump. Thank you for the reminder.

 

[y3nd0]

I also want to bump this thread before it gets buried in the masses.

And everyone should really check out that excel document Bereno made! It's amazing and is a great tool to see how the differences in tuition will affect your life.

 

[jdye]

So helpful! Thanks for posting this. Definitely going to help in my decision making.

 

[park1234]

Just wondering... Is 400k really not manageable? I thought taking loan out for dental school is an investment for your future...
Isnt buying audi over vw, and lexus over toyota similar as going private school over in-state school?
It's the name value that people pay for....

 

[y3nd0]

Just wondering... Is 400k really not manageable? I thought taking loan out for dental school is an investment for your future...
Isnt buying audi over vw, and lexus over toyota similar as going private school over in-state school?
It's the name value that people pay for....

It's manageable as many people are already doing it. But would you rather have 400K+interest to pay back and drive a Toyota, or 250K+interest (or whatever) and drive that Lexus?

Plus, the education you get at dental school will, by and large, be the same every where you go (wish I can say something like, "Well, the internal parts of a Lexus>Toyota," but I know jack-squat about cars. xD). Is that worth a potential 150K to go to a dental school because of the name? Patients won't know which dental school you went to unless you have your diploma framed and set up in the waiting room (like my orthodontist. Haha).

 

[gn4]

I understand when people say to pick the cheapest school, but it doesn't work for everybody. I personally am picking the cheapest school, but I could see an argument over why a person wouldn't necessarily pick the cheaper school. I have a Korean friend picking UCSF over his state school(Memphis) even though he also had a scholarship at Memphis as well. His reasoning is that he wants to be in a place where he could find his significant other. He doesn't think he can find that in Memphis. He has to marry an Asian girl. He also wants to be able to find places to eat. He says he'd rather pay for it and go to UCSF for four years and later on he wouldn't mind living and practicing in Podunk, Arkansas driving a Honda Accord.

I guess what I'm saying is that, it's all relative and depend on some people. Going to the cheapest school is not for everybody. All I care about are the benjamins..haha, but not everybody should do that

 

[Bereno]

Just wondering... Is 400k really not manageable? I thought taking loan out for dental school is an investment for your future...
Isnt buying audi over vw, and lexus over toyota similar as going private school over in-state school?
It's the name value that people pay for....

No, its not the same at all. Some public schools are "better" than private and vice verse, though how well you do is more a product of the student than the school IMO. This said, private schools will cost more, for essentially the same education and earning potential of public schools. Do not over estimate the value of a more expensive school - it will not be a financially smart move. That said, only go to the cheapest school if finances are going to be an issue for you. If your parents are paying and it will not hurt them financially, go to whatever school tickles your berries. If you are paying for it yourself, seriously consider the cheapest school. If schools are relatively close in price (say, 3-5%) then maybe consider things like location, food, or whatever.

 

[Jbrowndds]

Having been on here for several years, 120K seems to be the number that is thrown around most as a starting salary. I read the dental and resident forums often, and many people will post their offers on there asking for feedback, they are usually around those same numbers.

Furthermore, the last couple of years i have looked through the Craigslist job postings for dentists in my area (Phoenix, Las Vegas, Dallas, Denver) and 450-600 seems to be the daily guarantee for most of those postings.

Then, if you consider that the BLS average for employee dentists, ie: associates, public health, military, etc. (does not include practice owners) is 146K, it is not hard to believe that 120K is the going rate for new dentists.

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/dentists.htm

Lastly, I don't know much about SoCal and NY areas, as i have no intentions of ever practicing there. But from what i have read, those areas seem to be very over saturated with dentists. Thus driving up the competition and driving down reimbursements. Take it with a grain of salt though, because there are very successful dentists in each area.

I have also read through these threads in their entirety a couple times. It will take you hours, but you will learn A LOT!! Highly recommend it when you have the time:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=739665
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=636129
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=892435
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=854200
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=918404

I read the threads and all I can say is WOW!
It answered all of my questions and more. Its a must read!

 

[Teeths]

Just wondering... Is 400k really not manageable? I thought taking loan out for dental school is an investment for your future...
Isnt buying audi over vw, and lexus over toyota similar as going private school over in-state school?
It's the name value that people pay for....

What I bolded is what I'm trying to figure out too. I'm fortunate enough to have two acceptances, but not fortunate enough for either of them to be a 'state' or cheaper school. A rough estimate of my options are $350k or $415k. Everyone is telling me to go to the $415k school because it's more established and has more opportunities for what I'm interested in. So either way I will be paying a buttload back, but I'm trying to get a grasp on how $65k more would affect me and if that's feasible. My thinking is that I WILL be able to manage it because I'm already so incredibly frugal compared to your average student/person so I'll just have to keep that going for a few years after dental school -- as in rolling up to a dental office in a 1999 Honda Accord with one tail light out hahaha. But if anyone cares to chime in, I'd seriously appreciate it!

 

[UltimateHombre]

Everyone is telling me to go to the $415k school because it's more established and has more opportunities for what I'm interested in. So either way I will be paying a buttload back, but I'm trying to get a grasp on how $65k more would affect me and if that's feasible.

I will attempt to shed as much light as possible on your decision. The figures below are just for the "extra" 65K you would spend going toward the other school.

If you have an extra $65,000 in student loans and are on a 20 year repayment plan, at 7.9%, your monthly payment for that would be $539.65. With an extra $64,000 going only toward interest.

For a 10 year repayment plan, at 7.9%, your monthly payment would be $785.20. With an extra $29,000 going only toward interest.

People might be telling you that you will be provided more opportunities at the other school while in dental school. However, that advice is fairly short sighted. I would argue that you would be given more opportunities to invest, buy real estate, buy practices, save for your children's college, go on vacations, etc by saving an extra $540 a month for 20 years. My advice... sacrifice 4 years of opportunities to gain 20 years of more opportunities. When all is said and done, you will be a dentist and nobody, but your mom and dad, will care what school's name is on your piece of paper.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

What I bolded is what I'm trying to figure out too. I'm fortunate enough to have two acceptances, but not fortunate enough for either of them to be a 'state' or cheaper school. A rough estimate of my options are $350k or $415k. Everyone is telling me to go to the $415k school because it's more established and has more opportunities for what I'm interested in. So either way I will be paying a buttload back, but I'm trying to get a grasp on how $65k more would affect me and if that's feasible. My thinking is that I WILL be able to manage it because I'm already so incredibly frugal compared to your average student/person so I'll just have to keep that going for a few years after dental school -- as in rolling up to a dental office in a 1999 Honda Accord with one tail light out hahaha. But if anyone cares to chime in, I'd seriously appreciate it!

With 415k of debt, it will certainly take more than "a few" years of living frugal to pay off under standard repayment. Your best bet is to get on IBR or PAYE and PRAY TO GOD that it sticks around long enough for you to take advantage of. I haven't done the calculations, but with 400k + I would assume that you woudn't make large enough payments under IBR/PAYE to cover interest and the debt will balloon until it is forgiven after 20 years. When it is forgiven, the amount will be counted as taxable income which could be catastrophic to someone that will likely be in his/her mid 40s with house payments, 401k contributions, and child expenses.

 

[Teeths]

I will attempt to shed as much light as possible on your decision. The figures below are just for the "extra" 65K you would spend going toward the other school.

If you have an extra $65,000 in student loans and are on a 20 year repayment plan, at 7.9%, your monthly payment for that would be $539.65. With an extra $64,000 going only toward interest.

For a 10 year repayment plan, at 7.9%, your monthly payment would be $785.20. With an extra $29,000 going only toward interest.

People might be telling you that you will be provided more opportunities at the other school while in dental school. However, that advice is fairly short sighted. I would argue that you would be given more opportunities to invest, buy real estate, buy practices, save for your children's college, go on vacations, etc by saving an extra $540 a month for 20 years. My advice... sacrifice 4 years of opportunities to gain 20 years of more opportunities. When all is said and done, you will be a dentist and nobody, but your mom and dad, will care what school's name is on your piece of paper.

With 415k of debt, it will certainly take more than "a few" years of living frugal to pay off under standard repayment. Your best bet is to get on IBR or PAYE and PRAY TO GOD that it sticks around long enough for you to take advantage of. I haven't done the calculations, but with 400k + I would assume that you woudn't make large enough payments under IBR/PAYE to cover interest and the debt will balloon until it is forgiven after 20 years. When it is forgiven, the amount will be counted as taxable income which could be catastrophic to someone that will likely be in his/her mid 40s with house payments, 401k contributions, and child expenses.

Thank you both for your advice. Is your advice the same when you find out what schools they are? LECOM is the cheaper option, NYU is the more expensive option.
I'm not being rude and I'm definitely considering both, I just wanted to get your opinions on if the $65k more for NYU is worth it. SO MANY people are telling me it is, but I'm not so sure...

 

[brosenba]

Thank you both for your advice. Is your advice the same when you find out what schools they are? LECOM is the cheaper option, NYU is the more expensive option.
I'm not being rude and I'm definitely considering both, I just wanted to get your opinions on if the $65k more for NYU is worth it. SO MANY people are telling me it is, but I'm not so sure...

You have to add a couple things to your calculations to see if NYU is worth it. It is a great school, but big. However, if you want to practice in NY state you have to do a PG1 year, either as a GPR, AEGD or a specialty program. By doing that NY state bypasses the NERB so it is arguable to this school will prepare you as well as another to take the licensure exam when they assume most graduates will not even be taking it. The other thing to consider outside of tuition is cost of living, which in NY is higher. I am not saying don't go to NYU, just make sure you consider all the factors that will help you make your decision.

 

[Longcatislong]

What I bolded is what I'm trying to figure out too. I'm fortunate enough to have two acceptances, but not fortunate enough for either of them to be a 'state' or cheaper school. A rough estimate of my options are $350k or $415k. Everyone is telling me to go to the $415k school because it's more established and has more opportunities for what I'm interested in. So either way I will be paying a buttload back, but I'm trying to get a grasp on how $65k more would affect me and if that's feasible. My thinking is that I WILL be able to manage it because I'm already so incredibly frugal compared to your average student/person so I'll just have to keep that going for a few years after dental school -- as in rolling up to a dental office in a 1999 Honda Accord with one tail light out hahaha. But if anyone cares to chime in, I'd seriously appreciate it!

I'm in essentially the same position. I have been accepted at both Roseman and LECOM, with LECOM being the least expensive option. While I think Roseman would be a much better fit for me, the high pricetag is making me nervous.

Here are some Pro's for attending Roseman:
-Climate and environment. Utah has all four seasons, whereas Fl has terrible humidity and heat.
-I'm from CA and Utah is a bit closer to home for me.
-Curriculum: I love Roseman's block schedule. And I'm not too sure how I feel about PBL. Are there also lectures at LECOM in addition to PBL?
-Board passing on 1st try: I know Roseman's classes have take the boards, and had nearly everyone pass on the first try. Have LECOM's classes taken board's yet?
-Staying put for four years. While at Roseman you're in the same place for four years, at LECOM you have to relocate for your final year.
Con's for Roseman:
-EXPENSIVE!

Is all this worth it? Is my being a bit more happy about the climate, environment and learning model really worth all the extra debt? We're talking close to $400,000 if I attend Roseman. Will I be able to pay that off? I'm sure I wouldn't be unhappy if I chose LECOM. I would adapt to the weather, I would probably adapt to PBL...I don't know. This choice is so hard to make.

 

[Longcatislong]

I will attempt to shed as much light as possible on your decision. The figures below are just for the "extra" 65K you would spend going toward the other school.

If you have an extra $65,000 in student loans and are on a 20 year repayment plan, at 7.9%, your monthly payment for that would be $539.65. With an extra $64,000 going only toward interest.

For a 10 year repayment plan, at 7.9%, your monthly payment would be $785.20. With an extra $29,000 going only toward interest.

People might be telling you that you will be provided more opportunities at the other school while in dental school. However, that advice is fairly short sighted. I would argue that you would be given more opportunities to invest, buy real estate, buy practices, save for your children's college, go on vacations, etc by saving an extra $540 a month for 20 years. My advice... sacrifice 4 years of opportunities to gain 20 years of more opportunities. When all is said and done, you will be a dentist and nobody, but your mom and dad, will care what school's name is on your piece of paper.

Is this highlighted part really true? I hear this a lot around SDN and dental town. What about when it comes to networking and getting a job? Won't potential employers care a bit about what school you went to? Won't they have biases?

 

[lwen5]

Watch out for living costs as well. Some schools are located in expensive areas. Also, some schools inflate living costs.

 

[Longcatislong]

Watch out for living costs as well. Some schools are located in expensive areas. Also, some schools inflate living costs.

True. I though the cost of living budget provided by Roseman was insanely high. I could live way more frugally.

 

[LFA20]

I'm in essentially the same position. I have been accepted at both Roseman and LECOM, with LECOM being the least expensive option. While I think Roseman would be a much better fit for me, the high pricetag is making me nervous.

Here are some Pro's for attending Roseman:
-Climate and environment. Utah has all four seasons, whereas Fl has terrible humidity and heat.
-I'm from CA and Utah is a bit closer to home for me.
-Curriculum: I love Roseman's block schedule. And I'm not too sure how I feel about PBL. Are there also lectures at LECOM in addition to PBL?
-Board passing on 1st try: I know Roseman's classes have take the boards, and had nearly everyone pass on the first try. Have LECOM's classes taken board's yet?
-Staying put for four years. While at Roseman you're in the same place for four years, at LECOM you have to relocate for your final year.
Con's for Roseman:
-EXPENSIVE!

Is all this worth it? Is my being a bit more happy about the climate, environment and learning model really worth all the extra debt? We're talking close to $400,000 if I attend Roseman. Will I be able to pay that off? I'm sure I wouldn't be unhappy if I chose LECOM. I would adapt to the weather, I would probably adapt to PBL...I don't know. This choice is so hard to make.

have you ever thought of joining the military? (HPSP)

 

[NDPitch]

Is this highlighted part really true? I hear this a lot around SDN and dental town. What about when it comes to networking and getting a job? Won't potential employers care a bit about what school you went to? Won't they have biases?

This is 100% true. Go to the cheapest school and never look back.

Even if a potential employer did have a bias - you'd go elsewhere to work for a year, then move on to somewhere else you want to work.

We're consumers, and dental schools are all selling the same exact product.

You're buying a new TV. One store has it on sale for $500. Another store has it as the full MSRP of $949. Where are you going to buy the TV? Kind of an exaggerated analogy but you get the point.

All of the dentists I've talked to that went to expensive schools over the cheaper school (because they thought it was a better school for whatever reason) now regret doing so. I think that says something.

 

[Longcatislong]

have you ever thought of joining the military? (HPSP)

I have certainly considered applying for HPSP, but I just don't know how I feel about that 3-4 year commitment...and having no say in where I end up.

 

[athomas]

This is 100% true. Go to the cheapest school and never look back.

Even if a potential employer did have a bias - you'd go elsewhere to work for a year, then move on to somewhere else you want to work.

We're consumers, and dental schools are all selling the same exact product.

You're buying a new TV. One store has it on sale for $500. Another store has it as the full MSRP of $949. Where are you going to buy the TV? Kind of an exaggerated analogy but you get the point.

All of the dentists I've talked to that went to expensive schools over the cheaper school (because they thought it was a better school for whatever reason) now regret doing so. I think that says something.

I have a hard time believing this is true, because though you'll still be a dentist, some schools undoubtedly prepare you better than others. Is it to the point that you'd feel comfortable opening up a practice straight out of school? Probably not. But it could be a difference of feeling like you're ready to associate our feeling like you need to do a GPR, and that's not insignificant. Not saying this necessarily justifies a huge cost difference, but it seems overly simplistic to say every school gives you the same education and prepares you just as well for every avenue of dentistry. If this was the case, every school would have identical board pass rates.

 

[lwen5]

I think the best rule of thumb is this: If you have 2 schools and school A is more expensive than school B by less than $40k, then going to school A (which might have a better clinical experience) isn't such a bad idea. However, if school A is more expensive than school B by $50k or more, then I don't think it is worth attending school A, no matter how much better the 'clinical experience' or 'better chance of specialization' that may be present at school A.