Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

[Goro]

---

Members don't see this ad.

@Goro can you confirm or deny this?

Thank you!

Not my area of expertise. Best to ask AACOMAS

 

[acslater99]

Not my area of expertise. Best to ask AACOMAS

I emailed them and they gave a me quick response, I’m actually surprised.

Per AACOMAS:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting AACOMAS,

Health Science is considered under Science GPA hence, the courses under health science will be considered under Science GPA. Kindly check the link below to determine AACOMAS Course Subjects

AACOMAS Course Subjects

help.liaisonedu.com

If you have any questions, please feel free to reply to this email.

Regards,

AACOMAS Customer Support

Liaison Support Team

I guess they do accept it!

 

[deleted859689]

I emailed them and they gave a me quick response, I’m actually surprised.

Per AACOMAS:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting AACOMAS,

Health Science is considered under Science GPA hence, the courses under health science will be considered under Science GPA. Kindly check the link below to determine AACOMAS Course Subjects

AACOMAS Course Subjects

help.liaisonedu.com

If you have any questions, please feel free to reply to this email.

Regards,

AACOMAS Customer Support

Liaison Support Team

I guess they do accept it!

On the contrary

 

[acslater99]

On the contrary

View attachment 301341

Yeah I know. I emailed them that exactly. I stated that medical terminology isn’t accepted as sGPA but it’s listed under health sciences in my university. They responded with that email I posted just now.

*Edit*

I’m going to email them again to make sure it’s correct. If they replied quickly, I’m sure they’ll do it again.

 

[deleted859689]

Yeah I know. I emailed them that exactly. I stated that medical terminology isn’t accepted as sGPA but it’s listed under health sciences in my university. They responded with that email I posted just now.

They did not give you a clear answer. Screenshot that section and ask specifically until they reply “Yes, your medical terminology class will count towards sGPA” or “No, your medical terminology class will not count towards your sGPA.”

They told you to refer to the link which says Medical Terminology, regardless of what department provided it, is counted as non-science GPA under English. I bet you 100 bananas they didn’t even check the link themselves. Just email them back and get a definitive answer if it’ll affect your sGPA that much.

 

[acslater99]

I just received a response. Not sure what the response means. I’m guessing during verification they’ll let me know if they accept it as a sGPA? Is that correct?



Per AACOMAS:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting AACOMAS,

If you're not sure which course subject to choose based on your course's title, default to the department the course is offered through. During verification, our team will update any course subjects that were incorrectly listed.

AACOMAS Course Subjects

help.liaisonedu.com

Please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Regards,

AACOMAS Customer Support Team.

 

[deleted859689]

I just received a response. Not sure what the response means. I’m guessing during verification they’ll let me know if they accept it as a sGPA? Is that correct?



Per AACOMAS:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting AACOMAS,

If you're not sure which course subject to choose based on your course's title, default to the department the course is offered through. During verification, our team will update any course subjects that were incorrectly listed.

AACOMAS Course Subjects

help.liaisonedu.com

Please let us know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Regards,

AACOMAS Customer Support Team.

If you want it under sGPA, I would initially list it as such for your application. They will probably honor it since it’s linked to your health sciences department. If not, then at least you tried.

 

[acslater99]

If you want it under sGPA, I would initially list it as such for your application. They will probably honor it since it’s linked to your health sciences department. If not, then at least you tried.

Yeah I guess I’ll put it down. It’s a bit frustrating though that they couldn't give me a straight-forward answer.

Thanks though!

 

[andylawood]

@Goro I was wondering if I could get your advice on whether to apply right away next cycle? I am a reinvention student, going from 2.65 overall undergrad (poor first year >10 years ago) to cgpa 2.98 when I applied last year (3.9+ postbac gpa in science pre-rec only classes). Because I did the science classes later my science GPA for DO schools is ~ 3.73 and ~3.65 for MD.

I took the MCAT two times, 511 -> 513 (dropped 3 points in cars because of poor time management while boosting the rest 5 points). I didn't have a lot of love from schools, two DO interviews, one waitlist so far and one postponed interview, we'll see if it happens. I was put on hold or "interview for waitlist" by about 10 MD schools, but ultimately had no interviews.

In terms of my application from last cycle, I added some clinical volunteering hours in the ICU ~40 before the project shut down, improved my cGPA to over a 3.0 and slightly boosted by sgpa. I took 4 more classes with a 3.85 average, kept working full time. I also did more pro bono tutoring.

I think part of what hurt my application was getting it in somewhat late relative to my application strength while waiting for my MCAT score (Sept 1-30 for most MD schools and October-Nov for DO), and applying too broadly which decreased the quality of my secondary essays. I'm doing more volunteering now in the wake of the pandemic, but otherwise I'm worried my app is too similar to last year besides crossing the 3.0 threshold for GPA. SMP is not really a financial option for me, and at this point it seems somewhat fruitless to keep throwing money at my mediocre cgpa that will take a hundred units or so to get to a 3.2 or 3.3, should I take a year off to improve the other aspects of my application or apply again this cycle with a stronger emphasis on DO and higher quality secondaries? I applied to ~10 DO schools.

Thanks for all of your helpful guides and comments!

 

[Goro]

@Goro I was wondering if I could get your advice on whether to apply right away next cycle? I am a reinvention student, going from 2.65 overall undergrad (poor first year >10 years ago) to cgpa 2.98 when I applied last year (3.9+ postbac gpa in science pre-rec only classes). Because I did the science classes later my science GPA for DO schools is ~ 3.73 and ~3.65 for MD.

I took the MCAT two times, 511 -> 513 (dropped 3 points in cars because of poor time management while boosting the rest 5 points). I didn't have a lot of love from schools, two DO interviews, one waitlist so far and one postponed interview, we'll see if it happens. I was put on hold or "interview for waitlist" by about 10 MD schools, but ultimately had no interviews.

In terms of my application from last cycle, I added some clinical volunteering hours in the ICU ~40 before the project shut down, improved my cGPA to over a 3.0 and slightly boosted by sgpa. I took 4 more classes with a 3.85 average, kept working full time. I also did more pro bono tutoring.

I think part of what hurt my application was getting it in somewhat late relative to my application strength while waiting for my MCAT score (Sept 1-30 for most MD schools and October-Nov for DO), and applying too broadly which decreased the quality of my secondary essays. I'm doing more volunteering now in the wake of the pandemic, but otherwise I'm worried my app is too similar to last year besides crossing the 3.0 threshold for GPA. SMP is not really a financial option for me, and at this point it seems somewhat fruitless to keep throwing money at my mediocre cgpa that will take a hundred units or so to get to a 3.2 or 3.3, should I take a year off to improve the other aspects of my application or apply again this cycle with a stronger emphasis on DO and higher quality secondaries? I applied to ~10 DO schools.

Thanks for all of your helpful guides and comments!

I don't think that you need an SMP. You need

A strategic list
Rewrite all essays and have multiple eyeballs vet them.
Apply early.
Apply to more DO schools
Work on interview skills.
If you don't have a DO LOR, get one

 

[andylawood]

Thank you for all your advice @Goro !

 

[foreverlearner02]

One more question. Is exercise physiology form Berkeley extension listed under biological sciences count as BCPM

Hi there! Did you find out there answer to this question? I'd like to use an ex phys prof LOR as a science prof..would this work?

 

[Psych-hopeful]

@Goro and anyone else with advice I will be graduating with a BA in Psychology (originally Bio freshman and sophomore year) a cGPA of 3.04 and a sGPA of 2.8 at 132 credits. 500 shadowing hours, worked as a medical scribe, trained as an EMT-Basic, several volunteer opportunities, 700 hours of Biomedical research. Neuropsych research assistant. I'm headed to a DIY post bacc program at Cleveland State University where I plan on doing some more volunteering or shadowing. Here are my pre req grades so far:
GEN BIO 1 w/ lab: A
GEN BIO 2 w/ lab: D
GEN CHEM 1 w/ no lab: A
GEN CHEM 2: C
GEN CHEM 2 LAB: B
ORGANIC CHEM 1: D
ORGANIC CHEM 1 LAB: B
GENERAL PHYSICS w/ lab: A
FUNDAMENTALS OF PHYSICS w/ lab: A
STATISTICS: D
STATISTICS RETAKE: B
CALCULUS: B
CELL BIO: B
(1 credit class)BIO SEMINAR: F
(1 credit class)HEALTH PROFESSIONS SEMINAR: F
BIO SEMINAR retake: A
HEALTH PROFESSIONS SEMINAR retake: A


So I'm obviously gonna need that post bacc program for some of these prereqs. I am usually a decent student and all my science grades below a C were from the spring and fall of 2018 which was a really hard year for my family and I. I had a 3.6 cGPA and a 4.0 sGPA after fall of freshman year(2017). I also genuinely was gonna head towards Clinical Psychology(PhD) until last fall.

• I'm taking Organic chem1, Gen chem 1 lab, Human Biology in health and diseases(300 level), and Gen Bio 2 again this summer before August.
• I was supposed to take the MCAT at the end of March but Corona...so I'll take it at the beginning of August (gives me a lot more time to practice).
• In the fall I'll take Organic Chem 2, Anatomy and Biochem.
• Spring will be Genetics, and any other available upper level science

So my questions are should I wait until next year to apply to med school or can I start applying to at least some DO programs and, I'm sure you posted them on here somewhere, but what schools value reinvention?
I know this is a lot🙁


PS. I'm an AA female if that counts for anything

 

[mmchick]

@Goro and anyone else with advice I will be graduating with a BA in Psychology (originally Bio freshman and sophomore year) a cGPA of 3.04 and a sGPA of 2.8 at 132 credits. 500 shadowing hours, worked as a medical scribe, trained as an EMT-Basic, several volunteer opportunities, 700 hours of Biomedical research. Neuropsych research assistant. I'm headed to a DIY post bacc program at Cleveland State University where I plan on doing some more volunteering or shadowing. Here are my pre req grades so far:
GEN BIO 1 w/ lab: A
GEN BIO 2 w/ lab: D
GEN CHEM 1 w/ no lab: A
GEN CHEM 2: C
GEN CHEM 2 LAB: B
ORGANIC CHEM 1: D
ORGANIC CHEM 1 LAB: B
GENERAL PHYSICS w/ lab: A
FUNDAMENTALS OF PHYSICS w/ lab: A
STATISTICS: D
STATISTICS RETAKE: B
CALCULUS: B
CELL BIO: B
(1 credit class)BIO SEMINAR: F
(1 credit class)HEALTH PROFESSIONS SEMINAR: F
BIO SEMINAR retake: A
HEALTH PROFESSIONS SEMINAR retake: A


So I'm obviously gonna need that post bacc program for some of these prereqs. I am usually a decent student and all my science grades below a C were from the spring and fall of 2018 which was a really hard year for my family and I. I had a 3.6 cGPA and a 4.0 sGPA after fall of freshman year(2017). I also genuinely was gonna head towards Clinical Psychology(PhD) until last fall.

• I'm taking Organic chem1, Gen chem 1 lab, Human Biology in health and diseases(300 level), and Gen Bio 2 again this summer before August.
• I was supposed to take the MCAT at the end of March but Corona...so I'll take it at the beginning of August (gives me a lot more time to practice).
• In the fall I'll take Organic Chem 2, Anatomy and Biochem.
• Spring will be Genetics, and any other available upper level science

So my questions are should I wait until next year to apply to med school or can I start applying to at least some DO programs and, I'm sure you posted them on here somewhere, but what schools value reinvention?
I know this is a lot🙁


PS. I'm an AA female if that counts for anything

Why are you taking the MCAT this summer when you have at least a full year, if not 2, of GPA repair ahead of you? You certainly should not apply anywhere with any <3.0 GPAs. You should retake all classes < C at a 4-year level. Seriously consider SMP with linkage. If you retake the D courses and do absolutely stellar from here on out with remaining pre-reqs, higher science courses- that combined with a MCAT 505+ and assuming excellent ECs, you might be good for DO.

As it stands now, I think you’re mostly DOA for MD without some sort of SMP.

My general advice would be to first focus on fixing the GPA situation, worry about the MCAT much much later. I fear that even before re-taking your D classes, you’ll be far behind on MCAT content anyway. It’s a long road, but I believe things can still be rectified, especially for DO.

 

[Psych-hopeful]

@mmchick Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I've actually tried to find any one year SMP with linkage but all I could find where programs that seem to be either need all pre reqs completed with >C and maybe even an MCAT score or none completed at all (career changers and academic enhancers). Are there any that would apply to me?

 

[Goro]

@Goro and anyone else with advice I will be graduating with a BA in Psychology (originally Bio freshman and sophomore year) a cGPA of 3.04 and a sGPA of 2.8 at 132 credits. 500 shadowing hours, worked as a medical scribe, trained as an EMT-Basic, several volunteer opportunities, 700 hours of Biomedical research. Neuropsych research assistant. I'm headed to a DIY post bacc program at Cleveland State University where I plan on doing some more volunteering or shadowing. Here are my pre req grades so far:
GEN BIO 1 w/ lab: A
GEN BIO 2 w/ lab: D
GEN CHEM 1 w/ no lab: A
GEN CHEM 2: C
GEN CHEM 2 LAB: B
ORGANIC CHEM 1: D
ORGANIC CHEM 1 LAB: B
GENERAL PHYSICS w/ lab: A
FUNDAMENTALS OF PHYSICS w/ lab: A
STATISTICS: D
STATISTICS RETAKE: B
CALCULUS: B
CELL BIO: B
(1 credit class)BIO SEMINAR: F
(1 credit class)HEALTH PROFESSIONS SEMINAR: F
BIO SEMINAR retake: A
HEALTH PROFESSIONS SEMINAR retake: A


So I'm obviously gonna need that post bacc program for some of these prereqs. I am usually a decent student and all my science grades below a C were from the spring and fall of 2018 which was a really hard year for my family and I. I had a 3.6 cGPA and a 4.0 sGPA after fall of freshman year(2017). I also genuinely was gonna head towards Clinical Psychology(PhD) until last fall.

• I'm taking Organic chem1, Gen chem 1 lab, Human Biology in health and diseases(300 level), and Gen Bio 2 again this summer before August.
• I was supposed to take the MCAT at the end of March but Corona...so I'll take it at the beginning of August (gives me a lot more time to practice).
• In the fall I'll take Organic Chem 2, Anatomy and Biochem.
• Spring will be Genetics, and any other available upper level science

So my questions are should I wait until next year to apply to med school or can I start applying to at least some DO programs and, I'm sure you posted them on here somewhere, but what schools value reinvention?
I know this is a lot🙁


PS. I'm an AA female if that counts for anything

I can't recommend applying until I see how you do in the post-bac AND your MCAT score. What's your GPA for the past academic year?

 

[Psych-hopeful]

I can't recommend applying until I see how you do in the post-bac AND your MCAT score. What's your GPA for the past academic year?

3.5 I haven't taken any science classes over the past two years

 

[mmchick]

@mmchick Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I've actually tried to find any one year SMP with linkage but all I could find where programs that seem to be either need all pre reqs completed with >C and maybe even an MCAT score or none completed at all (career changers and academic enhancers). Are there any that would apply to me?

Yes you’d have to complete all pre-reqs first > C. SMP doesn’t replace these and you’d need them all with grade >C whether you took an SMP or not. If you are set to complete retakes, pre-reqs, and higher science courses through your formal postbac program, that’s a start. If you do absolutely stellar, there’s a chance that’ll simply suffice with a 505+ MCAT score for DO.

I’d recommend the SMP with linkage thereafter if you’re set on MD.

 

[CheeseCucumberSandwich]

So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling.

But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take both time and money. And always remember that you’re in a marathon now, not a sprint. The following advice holds true for people considering MD and DO. I strongly recommend that you keep both in mind, and the latter is more tolerant of reinvention.

EDIT: An even better summary to the next paragraph is provided by the wise HomeSkool here: Simple rules for retaking courses

Here’s what you need to do :

a) IF you have F/D grades in the pre-reqs, retake them. You need to show that you can master this material, and it will help you for MCAT (assuming that you haven’t taken the MCAT). In addition, many schools require a C or higher grade in pre-reqs. Naturally, this will vary from school to school.

If you got C's, take some upper level science classes and ace them. There is no need to retake a C unless you are very weak on the material and you need it for MCAT. Never, ever retake a B or B-.

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

b) There are MD schools that reward reinvention. All DO schools do. The DO path will be a little easier, but both still require an investment of 1-2 years of not GPA repair, but of transcript repair.

c) The goal is NOT to raise your cGPA to a sky high level (for some people this is mathematically impossible), but rather show that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle a medical school curriculum. So do not worry that your cGPA will be 3.2 upon applying after finishing your post-bac/GPA. Rising GPA trends are always looked highly upon, and many med schools weight the last 2-3 years more than the entire cGPA.

d) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school

e) in addition to d), your MCAT score will determine where to aim. I suggest:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

500+: the newest DO schools

On top of these, get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible. A trend I am seeing from SDNers who have received interviews from good schools and who also reinvented themselves, is that they have lots of clinical volunteering or employment...some even in the 1000s of hours.

As to the pluses and minuses of post-bac vs SMP:

A formal post-bac program is geared toward career switchers, and mostly provide the pre-reqs, and probably some MCAT advice/prep as well. You get faculty guidance in this and some programs seem to be feeders to med schools for non-trad students. They will cost more though.

Now, you can do the same thing on your own by simply taking continuing education courses at any nearby college. A four year school will be preferable to a community college (CC), but if costs are an issue, then a CC will be OK. This path is what is known here in SDN as the “DIY post-bac.” Costs will be less, but there’s no guidance.

What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics
Biostats
Cell Bio
Developmental Biology or Embryology
Histology
Immunology
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Molecular Bio or Genetics
Neuroscience or Neurobiology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology
Physiology
Tumor or Cancer Biology

An SMP (special master’s program) is one that offers medical school classes, or material that’s taught in medical school. These can be a backdoor into med school, and you get real advice from med school faculty (if given at a med school). Plus, you're a known quantity to the Adcom members, who will frequently be your SMP faculty. The down side is that the tuition will be more considerable. You may also have to relocate in order to attend one.

There are some two year SMPs, but I don’t see any advantage to these over one year programs.

Also, if you do poorly, your SMP degree is worthless, unless the program has an added-value component, like some research venue. Thus, SMPs are more high risk, but also high reward.

One final word of warning: Do NOT take the MCAT while enrolled in an SMP. We’ve seen students do this, and it leads to disaster. Some programs require an MCAT, so that solves the problem (although they may have a minimum score requirement!).

And remember, med schools aren’t going anywhere, and in fact, by the time you apply, several more will have opened their doors.

Good luck!

I don't know why, but Goro's personality seems to remind me of their cat... it just looks so... wise

 

[bnessa]

With that in mind, should I even consider applying this this upcoming cycle with a 2.98 uGPA (30 credits of 4.0 post-bacc included) and take the MCAT in July, or just forget about applying to medical school and take an SMP/Masters? I need 2 more post-bacc classes to raise uGPA to 3.0.

I was at a medical school symposium last weekend and every single medical school there ranging from Mayo Clinic to my state schools (FL) said that they will definitely consider graduate GPA as long as its in a hard science.

I'm leaning towards a Masters in Nanotechnology since it is offered at my school, and I could potentially get a stipend and continue working in the current lab I do research in. Otherwise I'd have to wait another year to apply to any other grad programs or move elsewhere.

I am currently doing a Masters in Nanotechnology at the University of Central Florida.
Let me know if you have any questions!

 

[blondepremedd]

That's why you don't just pick any random masters program. You do an SMP that has strong ties to the medical school, where it is almost a guaranteed acceptance as long as you can do well enough and not butcher your interview. You also choose a program that requires the MCAT for admissions. At my school, 80% of the SMP students get into the MD program at the school or get accepted elsewhere. The other 2o percent, either fail out or have poor interview skills.

Which SMP program is that?

 

[deleted947265]

Real talk Goro is the whole chapman points article business going to be lethal for me at every DO school or just not even a factor? Obviously I did some reinvention and my GPA is competitive for someone applying from a position of having to reinvent.

Didn't have any way to know what would happen until I dropped it. Would adcoms see it, do they care, if they care are they open to having their mind changed about me? I know osteopathy is a small world so it might've made the rounds in circles I don't have an ear on. Obviously I don't have any problems with DO schools, I just want to know if I've done something irrecoverably taboo and don't want to waste money. I'm the only person.... creative or stupid enough to be in this situation.

 

[RocuROMANium]

Hey @Goro,

Should I emphasize my postbac in my personal statement or somewhere on my application? I graduated with a 2.7 cGPA and 2.37 sGPA after 185 credits. Now I have a 3.05 cGPA and 3.03 sGPA after getting a 4.0 with 61 credits in my postbac. I did it in 2 years while working, volunteering and doing research. I want medical schools to know that I got straight A's attending school full-time while juggling a lot of extracurricular's. I have already written my personal statement which I believe is strong but I never emphasized the success of my postbac.

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro,

Should I emphasize my postbac in my personal statement or somewhere on my application? I graduated with a 2.7 cGPA and 2.37 sGPA after 185 credits. Now I have a 3.05 cGPA and 3.03 sGPA after getting a 4.0 with 61 credits in my postbac. I did it in 2 years while working, volunteering and doing research. I want medical schools to know that I got straight A's attending school full-time while juggling a lot of extracurricular's. I have already written my personal statement which I believe is strong but I never emphasized the success of my postbac.

Best addressed in secondaries

 

[mydogatemyhw]

Hi all,
First time poster looking for some advice on a potential school list please!

Undergrad: cGPA 2.81 and sGPA 2.63
Postbacc 33 credits science classes: 4.0
GPA including postbacc: cGPA 3.08 and sGPA 3.03

MCAT: 506

Also, I was accepted to an SMP that will start this fall.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you!

 

[21Rush12]

Hi all,
First time poster looking for some advice on a potential school list please!

Undergrad: cGPA 2.81 and sGPA 2.63
Postbacc 33 credits science classes: 4.0
GPA including postbacc: cGPA 3.08 and sGPA 3.03

MCAT: 506

Also, I was accepted to an SMP that will start this fall.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you!

Obviously not Goro, but really I expect the MCAT will probably be a problem regardless of SMP performance. Not sure how to proceed since you’re starting the SMP in fall.

 

[L8rg8r]

Do medical schools consider your course load while studying for the MCAT or are they separate and independent?

i.e. I'm wondering if there's any merit to me taking a few summer courses or should I just solely focus on the MCAT (and application cycle)

 

[ndcpjf]

I doubt it. In a typical cycle many people who are applying in June take the MCAT April/May while school and finals are in session so I don't think you'd get any bonus points.

 

[L8rg8r]

I doubt it. In a typical cycle many people who are applying in June take the MCAT April/May while school and finals are in session so I don't think you'd get any bonus points.

Am I better off studying solely for the MCAT then? My overall gpa is on the low end of 3.0 (despite 4.0 postbacc 31 credit hours) so I’m assuming taking 2 classes to boost it by 0.04 points doesn’t make much sense. I’d rather aim for the highest score possible on the MCAT.

 

[Goro]

Hi all,
First time poster looking for some advice on a potential school list please!

Undergrad: cGPA 2.81 and sGPA 2.63
Postbacc 33 credits science classes: 4.0
GPA including postbacc: cGPA 3.08 and sGPA 3.03

MCAT: 506

Also, I was accepted to an SMP that will start this fall.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thank you!

Unless you live in a very lucky state, like SD or NM, MD is off the table. You're fine for any DO school. Just rule out the brand new ones and those on my Bad Boy list

 

[RocuROMANium]

Am I better off studying solely for the MCAT then? My overall gpa is on the low end of 3.0 (despite 4.0 postbacc 31 credit hours) so I’m assuming taking 2 classes to boost it by 0.04 points doesn’t make much sense. I’d rather aim for the highest score possible on the MCAT.

For you, a higher MCAT beats a small increase in GPA so focus on the MCAT.

 

[Bergamasque]

I got a B- in Immunology due to coronavirus (couldnt study for an exam). If I Pass/Fail it, my GPA for the semester will be 3.8, if I don't it will be 3.5. Should I P/F it?

 

[RocuROMANium]

I got a B- in Immunology due to coronavirus (couldnt study for an exam). If I Pass/Fail it, my GPA for the semester will be 3.8, if I don't it will be 3.5. Should I P/F it?

I have been seeing these questions a lot and I go back and forth with my answer to them. In science we are trained to interpret the data and not draw too broad of conclusions from it. In that sense, I lean towards thinking that adcoms will only see the GPA and they won't overthink it because there are just too many factors to consider regarding the pandemic. However, I also understand why people think that taking a pass could be seen as a way of saving face to the adcoms. In my opinion, the first scenario has an actual tangible statistic to draw conclusions from but the other scenario does not. I say take the 3.8.

 

[Goro]

I got a B- in Immunology due to coronavirus (couldnt study for an exam). If I Pass/Fail it, my GPA for the semester will be 3.8, if I don't it will be 3.5. Should I P/F it?

Take the P. But BTW, Adcoms look at year by year performance, not semester by semester.

 

[SolemnSoliloquy]

Take the P. But BTW, Adcoms look at year by year performance, not semester by semester.

When you say year by year, do you mean like "freshman, sophomore, ..." or the actual year they were taken (eg. 2017, 2018, ...)?

I'm currently undergoing reinvention and am confused as to how they'll see my transcript. I went to school for 3 semesters around 2010 before stopping. Went back around 2017 and started from the beginning. So I'm trying to figure out if my first semester back in 2017 would count as sophomore year grades (since it's my fourth semester), or if they would partition it by the actual year. Thanks.

 

[Goro]

When you say year by year, do you mean like "freshman, sophomore, ..." or the actual year they were taken (eg. 2017, 2018, ...)?

I'm currently undergoing reinvention and am confused as to how they'll see my transcript. I went to school for 3 semesters around 2010 before stopping. Went back around 2017 and started from the beginning. So I'm trying to figure out if my first semester back in 2017 would count as sophomore year grades (since it's my fourth semester), or if they would partition it by the actual year. Thanks.

Fr, SO etc

 

[L8rg8r]

Fr, SO etc

If taking multiple post-bacc years, is it grouped as one then?

 

[Goro]

If taking multiple post-bacc years, is it grouped as one then?

Put the pb as separate from UG, and a single unit

 

[mblumes]

Firstly I'd like to give a big THANK YOU to Goro for this thread. It gave me a breath of hope when mine was running low.

Graduated with a degree in Computer Science. Plan was to be a software engineer. Turns out I don't like programming much. I was shot with an arrow of inspiration seemingly out of nowhere - the realization that I want to be a doctor. I don't know why I never considered it before, but the profession checks all the boxes that I'd need to feel fulfilled with my occupation.

So... I went to a relatively unknown local private college. 3.25 cGPA B.S. in CompSci. Caucasian. No research, teaching, the slightest bit of non-clinical volunteer work... absolutely nothing else.

Assuming that I'm capable of doing well on the MCAT and willing to put in the effort, is it possible to become a doctor?

If so, where do I begin?

I did read the thread, I'm just wondering about the order in going about each step.

It's okay if I'm being overly ambitious, I'd just like to be certain so that I can grieve and move past it.

Thanks again.

My apologies if this sort of post isn't allowed.

 

[L8rg8r]

Firstly I'd like to give a big THANK YOU to Goro for this thread. It gave me a breath of hope when mine was running low.

Graduated with a degree in Computer Science. Plan was to be a software engineer. Turns out I don't like programming much. I was shot with an arrow of inspiration seemingly out of nowhere - the realization that I want to be a doctor. I don't know why I never considered it before, but the profession checks all the boxes that I'd need to feel fulfilled with my occupation.

So... I went to a relatively unknown local private college. 3.25 cGPA B.S. in CompSci. Caucasian. No research, teaching, the slightest bit of non-clinical volunteer work... absolutely nothing else.

Assuming that I'm capable of doing well on the MCAT and willing to put in the effort, is it possible to become a doctor?

If so, where do I begin?

I did read the thread, I'm just wondering about the order in going about each step.

It's okay if I'm being overly ambitious, I'd just like to be certain so that I can grieve and move past it.

Thanks again.

My apologies if this sort of post isn't allowed.

Of course it’s possible!

One of the first things you should do before you commit to several semester’s worth of science courses is shadow several physicians of different specialties and get some clinical experience. The profession might “check all the boxes” for you as you just said, but I think it’s really important to get to know the day-to-day activities before you make such a big commitment in your life.

The beauty of shadowing/clinical experience is that you will find it fascinating and it will motivate you to do whatever it takes to follow that path, or you might say “this isn’t what I thought it’s like, not for me”. Either way, I wish you to best of luck!

 

[Goro]

1) Assuming that I'm capable of doing well on the MCAT and willing to put in the effort, is it possible to become a doctor?

2) If so, where do I begin?

I did read the thread, I'm just wondering about the order in going about each step.

It's okay if I'm being overly ambitious, I'd just like to be certain so that I can grieve and move past it.

Thanks again.

1) Yes, that's the whole point of the guide
2) Retake any C- or lower grades in the pre-reqs. If that's not an issue, get the MCAT out of the way. Also get in all the needed ECs, except research. That's optional. Then look into DIY post-bac or SMP.

IF you don't have the pre-reqs, then consider a post-bac program for career changers. Do well in that and you won't need an SMP.

 

[hopefulnon-trad]

Hey @Goro ,

been following your reinvention posts for a while now And would love your advice on my situation.

so I graduated undergrad 2013with a BS in biology : cgPA:2.69 : sGPA: 2.5
I took about 5 years after that to work and gained clinical experience. Worked my way up in a scribing company as their leadership. Decided I really wanted to go back and try for medical school but knew my stats were horrible. Ended up taking 18 hours of upper level sciences at a local university with 4.0 and then found this medical masters of science where I will be finishing up with a 3.7 (60 credits ).
My mcat is a 510. Now I am fully aware my stats even with these recent grades are no where competitive especially with my undergrad stats. So what kind of schools should I target ? I have a lot of DO shadowing experience and have personally enjoyed working with DOs. My masters has informal linkages with Tulane and LSU but I know LSU might be out of question as a Texas resident for me.
Thanks !

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro ,

been following your reinvention posts for a while now And would love your advice on my situation.

so I graduated undergrad 2013with a BS in biology : cgPA:2.69 : sGPA: 2.5
I took about 5 years after that to work and gained clinical experience. Worked my way up in a scribing company as their leadership. Decided I really wanted to go back and try for medical school but knew my stats were horrible. Ended up taking 18 hours of upper level sciences at a local university with 4.0 and then found this medical masters of science where I will be finishing up with a 3.7 (60 credits ).
My mcat is a 510. Now I am fully aware my stats even with these recent grades are no where competitive especially with my undergrad stats. So what kind of schools should I target ? I have a lot of DO shadowing experience and have personally enjoyed working with DOs. My masters has informal linkages with Tulane and LSU but I know LSU might be out of question as a Texas resident for me.
Thanks !

as a TX resdient, target the TX schools, but Baylor and UTSW are probably no-gos.
You'll be fine for any DO school... I can't recommend LUCOM, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM nor Nova for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.

 

[Goro]

Should I retake Ochem and aim for A (3 classes, got a C in all)?

No, unless you are so weak in the material that it will compromise your for MCAT.


Should I retake Biochem and aim for A (2 classes, got a C)?
No


Or should I just focus on taking new upper level challenging BCPM classes and getting straight A's from this point on? To "reinvent".
Yes.

 

[mblumes]

1) Yes, that's the whole point of the guide
2) Retake any C- or lower grades in the pre-reqs. If that's not an issue, get the MCAT out of the way. Also get in all the needed ECs, except research. That's optional. Then look into DIY post-bac or SMP.

IF you don't have the pre-reqs, then consider a post-bac program for career changers. Do well in that and you won't need an SMP.

Any post-bacc program reccomendations for an early 30's with a 3.25 Bachelor's in Computer Science and zero science classes? Prefer New York but if there's a particular program elsewhere, I'm open minded. I'd prefer structure even factoring in cost.

Thank you so much 🙂

 

[jhmmd]

Any post-bacc program reccomendations for an early 30's with a 3.25 Bachelor's in Computer Science and zero science classes? Prefer New York but if there's a particular program elsewhere, I'm open minded. I'd prefer structure even factoring in cost.

Thank you so much 🙂

?

 

[Goro]

Any post-bacc program reccomendations for an early 30's with a 3.25 Bachelor's in Computer Science and zero science classes? Prefer New York but if there's a particular program elsewhere, I'm open minded. I'd prefer structure even factoring in cost.

Thank you so much 🙂

I don't recommend programs. They're all so similar.

 

[Bergamasque]

I don't recommend programs. They're all so similar.

When would you strongly recommend someone to do an SMP vs a DIY Post-Bacc if they have low GPA <3.0 but a significant upward trend?

 

[Goro]

When would you strongly recommend someone to do an SMP vs a DIY Post-Bacc if they have low GPA <3.0 but a significant upward trend?

It depends upon the degree of that trend and how long it was. I feel that two strong upper class years at, say 3.7+ and combined with a strong MCAT and ECs would have many Adcoms look at a candidate as a 3.7+ candidate, not a cGPA of << 3.7 candidate.

A single strong SR year will not be enough data point sot show reinvention, and that's when I recommend the post-bac/SMP path.

 

[socialmedsecondchancer]

@Goro, here is my underdog app ft. strong upward trend w/ reinvention:

Freshman: 1.69 cumulative
Sophomore: 1.98 cumulative
<Academic Suspension - Spring Soph>
Junior: 3.46 cumulative
Senior: 3.57 cumulative
DIY Post- Bacc: 3.62 cumulative/BCPM (22 credits, all upper chem/bio, may take an additional 8 credits this Fall/Spring to hit 30 and raise it to 3.8+).
MCAT: TBD July '20

4+ years of research, advocacy & work experience in public health/primary care with underserved populations. Very strong letters of recommendation. The past few years of reinvention following significant adversity have been extremely difficult both emotionally and mentally, but I'm constantly looking uphill and working hard to make sure I get my app looked at.

Aiming for low-tier MD and all DO programs w/ commitment to primary care/medically underserved areas. Difficult to say w/o definitive MCAT score (exam rescheduling has made this more challenging), but have a preliminary list of programs & will be casting a wide net.