Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

[Goro]

You're good to go!

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[MaximusD]

MaximusD’s advice for those who need reinvention:

If you know who you are, you’ll never be lost.

 

[Detailsmatter]

@Goro @Calizboosted76 I once again require your assistance with a mentee (sorry!). Im not familiar with DO schools and he's got a downward trend in his science GPA (FR:4.0, Sophomore: 3.38, JR: 2.86, SR: 3.0. Cumulative scienceGPA is 3.26 ). Even with a good MCAT im pretty sure this is lethal for DO as well right? edit: important to note he's taken the MCAT 4 times in the past (first one voided) and then the scores were 487, 492, 490. mcat study hasn't been ideal at all and id be working with him on that

 

[Goro]

@Goro @Calizboosted76 I once again require your assistance with a mentee (sorry!). Im not familiar with DO schools and he's got a downward trend in his science GPA (FR:4.0, Sophomore: 3.38, JR: 2.86, SR: 3.0. Cumulative scienceGPA is 3.26 ). Even with a good MCAT im pretty sure this is lethal for DO as well right? edit: important to note he's taken the MCAT 4 times in the past (first one voided) and then the scores were 487, 492, 490. mcat study hasn't been ideal at all and id be working with him on that

The MCAT scores alone lethal. The downward trend is also so concerning that your mentee would not be viable at my school even with a good MCAT.

Your mentee needs to thoroughly prepare for the MCAT and only take it when he's fully ready.

Due to to the downward GPA, he needs to ace either a DIY post-bac or a SMP. If health or life issues lead to the downward trend, those need to be dealt first and foremost.

 

[Detailsmatter]

The MCAT scores alone lethal. The downward trend is also so concerning that your mentee would not be viable at my school even with a good MCAT.

Your mentee needs to thoroughly prepare for the MCAT and only take it when he's fully ready.

Due to to the downward GPA, he needs to ace either a DIY post-bac or a SMP. If health or life issues lead to the downward trend, those need to be dealt first and foremost.

thanks! if he were to only do the MCAT and take it when he's ready and do well is there a solid chance at any DO acceptance (be it a "lower tier" DO school or a new school? im assuming no and that he'll also need the post bar work

 

[Goro]

thanks! if he were to only do the MCAT and take it when he's ready and do well is there a solid chance at any DO acceptance (be it a "lower tier" DO school or a new school? im assuming no and that he'll also need the post bar work

No medical school is doing him any favors, especially a Brand New School, by admitting such a high-risk student

 

[Calizboosted76]

@Goro @Calizboosted76 I once again require your assistance with a mentee (sorry!). Im not familiar with DO schools and he's got a downward trend in his science GPA (FR:4.0, Sophomore: 3.38, JR: 2.86, SR: 3.0. Cumulative scienceGPA is 3.26 ). Even with a good MCAT im pretty sure this is lethal for DO as well right? edit: important to note he's taken the MCAT 4 times in the past (first one voided) and then the scores were 487, 492, 490. mcat study hasn't been ideal at all and id be working with him on that

A post bacc or SMP (as @Goro stated) is pretty necessary. A solid MCAT as well. Your mentee May have a chance at a new for profit school however I wouldn’t suggest doing so. As a lot of people on here say, medical schools are not going anywhere and taking shortcuts to get to them is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Detailsmatter]

No medical school is doing him any favors, especially a Brand New School, by admitting such a high-risk student

agree 100%. thanks as always

 

[apple999]

Hi @Goro I was wondering if you could help me with my school list as I reinvented my app and am about to apply. Thank you for all your help as I have read through a lot of your posts here.

-I graduated last year from a top 20 w/ cGPA: 3.25, sGPA: 3.0
-Upward trend in undergrad with a ~3.8 GPA the last year - but failed Orgo II my sophomore year and had a C in Orgo I - retook both that summer at a local state school and got an A in both. Not sure how badly the F on my transcript will weigh down my app.
-Just graduated from a well known SMP w/ a 4.0 (courses w/ med school profs) and scored a 518 on the MCAT last year.

Stats: cGPA: 3.25, sGPA: 3.0, smpGPA: 4.0, MCAT: 518

Other notable information:
White, 2500+ clinical hours, 1000 research hours (waiting on pub, multiple poster presentations), 450 volunteer hours, 100 shadowing hours, leadership experience and work experience throughout undergrad.
Working clinical job currently.


My current school list (1 guaranteed interview from SMP):
4 SUNYs
Albany
NYMC
Quinnipiac
Georgetown
GW
Loyola
Rush
Rosalind Franklin
Temple
Drexel
Tufts
Medical College Wisconsin
Wayne State
Einstein
Wake Forest
Creighton
Miami

Also considering: Penn St, SLU, Vermont, EVMS, Cincinnati, Dartmouth, Indiana, Illinois, Western Michigan, Seton Hall, Jefferson
Possible reaches: Northwestern, Mt. Sinai, BU, Duke, Vanderbilt, Cornell

I was wondering if you could offer some feedback about my current list and which schools I may want to add as I am already at ~20 schools and am not sure how many more I should add.

Also would you advise adding a few of those reach schools as I think I have seen them listed before as being friendly towards reinvented apps (besides Northwestern and Cornell)?

Thanks again for all the time you devote to helping premeds, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[Goro]

4 SUNYs
Albany
NYMC
Quinnipiac
Georgetown
GW
Loyola
Rush
Rosalind Franklin
Temple
Drexel
Tufts
Medical College Wisconsin
Wayne State
Wake Forest
Creighton
Miami
SLU, Vermont, EVMS, Dartmouth, Western Seton Hall, Jefferson
Mt. Sinai, BU, Duke, Vanderbilt, Columbia, UCSF, Emory, Hofstra Tufts, Pitt, TCU.UNT, NOVA.MD

also, as a reinventor, you have to have DO schools on your list.

I was wondering if you could offer some feedback about my current list and which schools I may want to add as I am already at ~20 schools and am not sure how many more I should add.

Also would you advise adding a few of those reach schools as I think I have seen them listed before as being friendly towards reinvented apps (besides Northwestern and Cornell)?

Thanks again for all the time you devote to helping premeds, it is greatly appreciated!

My list above

 

[figtart]

Hi @Goro and anyone else who can chime in. I applied in the 2020 cycle and on four waitlists. I'm stumped about what to do before reapplying in 2022. Also recently started wondering if I need reinvention given my GPA and being 7 years out from college when I next apply (2015 grad).

	sGPA (hours)	cGPA (hours)
Freshman	2.92 (21)	2.87 (30)
Sophomore	3.38 (23)	3.43 (30)
Junior	3.93 (17)	3.95 (26)
Senior	3.93 (17)	3.93 (29)
Cumulative	3.5 (78)	3.53 (115)

ORM
MCAT: 507, 511, 513 (took it the third time only because I was scoring significantly higher across all FLs, learned the hard way it doesn't matter if you can't perform on test day)

Clinical
CRC experience: soon to be 8300hrs (approaching end of 4th year as a CRC, no pubs)
MA experience: 2000hrs
Pharmacy: 600hrs
Shadowing: 35hrs (occurred during undergrad, was advised I didn't need more since I had almost 5 years of paid clinical experience between CRC + MA)

• Do you agree? Or should I try to shadow more?

Non-clinical
Benchtop research: 1500hrs (no pubs)
Non-clinical volunteering: 750hrs
Extracurricular: 80hrs

Hoping to come off waitlists but I've accepted that I'll have to reapply. I decided on 2022 because I want to make sure I'm more competitive than I was this past cycle, especially at the schools I already interviewed at. I can continue in my CRC role (new clinic, been here for 1 year) but with opportunities to work on independent projects with my mentor (high publishing PI, was briefed on a few projects we can work on before next cycle). I then started getting worried that I'll be many years out of college when I apply in 2022. I looked at admissions requirements at a few schools I applied to this year and there was no official language about coursework expiring/recommendations to take newer coursework if x years out of college. Based on my GPA + non-traditional status do you think I need reinvention and focus on a SMP/masters program before 2022? Any additional input is also appreciated!

 

[Calizboosted76]

Hi @Goro and anyone else who can chime in. I applied in the 2020 cycle and on four waitlists. I'm stumped about what to do before reapplying in 2022. Also recently started wondering if I need reinvention given my GPA and being 7 years out from college when I next apply (2015 grad).

	sGPA (hours)	cGPA (hours)
Freshman	2.92 (21)	2.87 (30)
Sophomore	3.38 (23)	3.43 (30)
Junior	3.93 (17)	3.95 (26)
Senior	3.93 (17)	3.93 (29)
Cumulative	3.5 (78)	3.53 (115)

ORM
MCAT: 507, 511, 513 (took it the third time only because I was scoring significantly higher across all FLs, learned the hard way it doesn't matter if you can't perform on test day)

Clinical
CRC experience: soon to be 8300hrs (approaching end of 4th year as a CRC, no pubs)
MA experience: 2000hrs
Pharmacy: 600hrs
Shadowing: 35hrs (occurred during undergrad, was advised I didn't need more since I had almost 5 years of paid clinical experience between CRC + MA)

• Do you agree? Or should I try to shadow more?

Non-clinical
Benchtop research: 1500hrs (no pubs)
Non-clinical volunteering: 750hrs
Extracurricular: 80hrs

Hoping to come off waitlists but I've accepted that I'll have to reapply. I decided on 2022 because I want to make sure I'm more competitive than I was this past cycle, especially at the schools I already interviewed at. I can continue in my CRC role (new clinic, been here for 1 year) but with opportunities to work on independent projects with my mentor (high publishing PI, was briefed on a few projects we can work on before next cycle). I then started getting worried that I'll be many years out of college when I apply in 2022. I looked at admissions requirements at a few schools I applied to this year and there was no official language about coursework expiring/recommendations to take newer coursework if x years out of college. Based on my GPA + non-traditional status do you think I need reinvention and focus on a SMP/masters program before 2022? Any additional input is also appreciated!

How are your letters of recommendation?
What was your school list?

I would say your list had to have been to top heavy or you have a red flag in your letters.

Did you apply DO?

 

[Detailsmatter]

Hi @Goro and anyone else who can chime in. I applied in the 2020 cycle and on four waitlists. I'm stumped about what to do before reapplying in 2022. Also recently started wondering if I need reinvention given my GPA and being 7 years out from college when I next apply (2015 grad).

	sGPA (hours)	cGPA (hours)
Freshman	2.92 (21)	2.87 (30)
Sophomore	3.38 (23)	3.43 (30)
Junior	3.93 (17)	3.95 (26)
Senior	3.93 (17)	3.93 (29)
Cumulative	3.5 (78)	3.53 (115)

ORM
MCAT: 507, 511, 513 (took it the third time only because I was scoring significantly higher across all FLs, learned the hard way it doesn't matter if you can't perform on test day)

Clinical
CRC experience: soon to be 8300hrs (approaching end of 4th year as a CRC, no pubs)
MA experience: 2000hrs
Pharmacy: 600hrs
Shadowing: 35hrs (occurred during undergrad, was advised I didn't need more since I had almost 5 years of paid clinical experience between CRC + MA)

• Do you agree? Or should I try to shadow more?

Non-clinical
Benchtop research: 1500hrs (no pubs)
Non-clinical volunteering: 750hrs
Extracurricular: 80hrs

Hoping to come off waitlists but I've accepted that I'll have to reapply. I decided on 2022 because I want to make sure I'm more competitive than I was this past cycle, especially at the schools I already interviewed at. I can continue in my CRC role (new clinic, been here for 1 year) but with opportunities to work on independent projects with my mentor (high publishing PI, was briefed on a few projects we can work on before next cycle). I then started getting worried that I'll be many years out of college when I apply in 2022. I looked at admissions requirements at a few schools I applied to this year and there was no official language about coursework expiring/recommendations to take newer coursework if x years out of college. Based on my GPA + non-traditional status do you think I need reinvention and focus on a SMP/masters program before 2022? Any additional input is also appreciated!

you have an ok GPA but a great upward trend and good MCATs. it could be LORs, bad school list, or your writing but since you had 4 interviews I think a big factor may be that the interviews didnt go that well?

 

[lana73952]

Hi @Goro, I've had a bad undergrad history with a cumulative gpa of 3.43-3.43-3.12-3.14. As it stands my cum gpa is 3.28 and my science gpa is 2.8(one F two Ds and a couple Cs). I'm planning on staying at my undergrad for an extra year(45 credits) and with the added gpa points I would end up with a cumulative 3.47 and science 3.35. Afterward I'm thinking of doing one year of DIY postbacc. I'm wondering what you think about this reinvention path. I hope at the end my gpa would be around a 3.55 cumulative and 3.45 science. Assuming a 510+ MCAT would this be enough for MD or DO? Also I'm a Florida resident.

 

[deleted12934098745974509]

.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro,

Have I reinvented enough?

Undergrad: 2.8 cGPA, 2.3 sGPA
SMP: 36 credits @3.7 GPA
MCAT: 502 (took twice, considering retake?)
URM: Mexican woman, grew up rural underserved
Life experience mentioned in PS: Incarcerated parent who struggled with mental health/substance use disorder and accessibility to care in rural area.

Activities:
EMT for 2 1/2 years.
(Simultaneously) worked at a residential mental health/substance abuse disorder treatment center for 2 years.
Bleeding control instructor: 2 years
Americorps Summer Associate @ Food Bank around 400 hours
Boys and Girls Club Volunteer/Work 400 hrs
Research: Hundreds of hrs abstracting records for oncologist, undergrad bioengineering research. 1 pub.
Undergrad pre-med club leadership: 400 hrs

Shadowing: Both MD and DO @ farmworkers Clinic 15 hrs
20 hrs @ Children's Hospital
20 hrs with summer medical program


Should I retake my MCAT?
Do I need more reinvention before reapplication?
If not, any ideas for schools?

Thanks for your help!

You're done with reinvention, Bravo!!!

URM doctors are needed, so I think you're good to apply now. You're fine for all DO schools, and some MD as well, especially your state schools.

 

[spicypumpkin]

.

 

[Goro]

Thanks in advance!

Does this seem like an okay schedule?
Yes

I’m specifically unsure whether Medical Terminology would “count”.
It's OK

Also, I aim to apply next year so I would like to be finished with my post-bacc by the end of next spring. Should I strictly aim for 30 credits by then, or could I do 24 (12 each semester)? I’m considering 12 per semester so I can continue my research job on a part time basis and be more comfortable financially, but my biggest priorities are to get straight As and be able to demonstrate reinvention by next year’s cycle. (I worry that it would be asking for trouble to take 15 credits while working part time—if anyone has advice here I’d really appreciate it!)

If finances are an issue, work and save up the money so you can do your post-bac work full time. You need to have the data points to show that you can handle med school.

For reference, it would take 18 credits of As to get my uGPA to 3.4 and 50 credits to get to a 3.5 (so it seems to plateau around there). Not sure if I should go for a specific number of credits or aim for a goal GPA.

It's not about raising the GPA anymore, but having a streak of great grades to show that you can do the job.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro, I've had a bad undergrad history with a cumulative gpa of 3.43-3.43-3.12-3.14. As it stands my cum gpa is 3.28 and my science gpa is 2.8(one F two Ds and a couple Cs). I'm planning on staying at my undergrad for an extra year(45 credits) and with the added gpa points I would end up with a cumulative 3.47 and science 3.35. Afterward I'm thinking of doing one year of DIY postbacc. I'm wondering what you think about this reinvention path. I hope at the end my gpa would be around a 3.55 cumulative and 3.45 science. Assuming a 510+ MCAT would this be enough for MD or DO? Also I'm a Florida resident.

Sounds good!
510 MCAT for your FL schools, but really, 513+ for other MD.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro , do you think this is enough reinvention? I applied last year before the SMP grades and had no luck with updates.

uGPA: 3.1, SMP: 3.7
MCAT: 504, 516 (5-year gap)
Activities (post-undergrad):
Clinical: ~2000 hours
Nonclinical volunteer: ~400 hours
Research: ~2000 hours
Leadership: ~100 hours

Do you have recommendations for a school list (CA resident)? Everything feels like a reach looking at MSAR and I don't have a DO letter.

Thanks!

MSAR can't be used for reinvention, except when looking at the number of matriculants at a particular school who have post-bac work or grad degrees.

I suggest:
All CA schools (UCR ONLY if you're form the Inland Empire)
Columbia
Vandy (maybe)
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck (maybe)
Temple (maybe)
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
TCU/UNT
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI

Any DO program. Include UNECOM if you’re from the NE, OSUCOM if you’re from the Plains states and PacNW if you’re from that region. I can't recommend ARCOM, RVU, Nova, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

 

[abcdef123@]

Hello @Goro,

I am planning this cycle, and I am wondering if my reinvention is adequate? If not I plan to take an extra gap year to take a few extra classes.

Freshman (30 units) 3.9
Sophomore (31 units) 4.0
Junior (32 units) 3.7
Senior (30 units) 2.74 (Father got into a car accident. I became his primary caretaker)
Non-science master 3.5
Post-bac (37 units) 4.0

MCAT: 506

Clinical experience: 4000 hours (working as a medical assistant, patient tech, etc.)
Clinical volunteering: 75 hours (hospital + private clinic volunteering)
Non-clinical experience: 1000 hours+ (camp counselor, food services, etc.)
Non-clinical volunteering: 800 hours (tutoring, food bank, etc.)
Research: 50 hours
Shadowing: 75 hours ( primary care DO + MD)

Thank you !

 

[Goro]

Hello @Goro,

I am planning this cycle, and I am wondering if my reinvention is adequate? If not I plan to take an extra gap year to take a few extra classes.

Freshman (30 units) 3.9
Sophomore (31 units) 4.0
Junior (32 units) 3.7
Senior (30 units) 2.74 (Father got into a car accident. I became his primary caretaker)
Non-science master 3.5
Post-bac (37 units) 4.0

MCAT: 506

Clinical experience: 4000 hours (working as a medical assistant, patient tech, etc.)
Clinical volunteering: 75 hours (hospital + private clinic volunteering)
Non-clinical experience: 1000 hours+ (camp counselor, food services, etc.)
Non-clinical volunteering: 800 hours (tutoring, food bank, etc.)
Research: 50 hours
Shadowing: 75 hours ( primary care DO + MD)

Thank you

Your reinvention is great!!!!

 

[mellocellofello]

Hi @Goro, I've noticed that a lot of DO schools provide a space to provide an explanation for issues with grades or MCAT scores. If I already explained my poor grades/IA in the Academic Infraction section, how would you recommend handling these school-specific sections? I can't decide whether to just leave it blank, make a "refer to Academic Infraction section" note, or reiterate what I've already said.

Thanks!

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro, I've noticed that a lot of DO schools provide a space to provide an explanation for issues with grades or MCAT scores. If I already explained my poor grades/IA in the Academic Infraction section, how would you recommend handling these school-specific sections? I can't decide whether to just leave it blank, make a "refer to Academic Infraction section" note, or reiterate what I've already said.

Thanks!

I think that this will work out. You can always elaborate as needed, like what you did to improve or how you won't let it happen again, which is more suited for this prompt, as opposed the IA prompt.

 

[chayadoing]

I need help finalizing my reinvention-friendly school list before I hit submit on my AMCAS. Please no schools from red states or states with health insurance laws hostile to transgender people!

MCAT 519 (January 2020)

3.794 (13 credits) in high school at local university

undergrad years at UVa:
1st year (39 credits): 3.33
2nd year (38 credits) : 130.9 / 38 = 3.44
3rd year (36 credits): 2.91
4th year (17 credits Spring): 2.4, medically withdrew in the fall
Last undergrad semester (17 credits, 5th year) => 3.294
major: Chemistry, 90% of credits are science-based
[five year gap]
Informal science postbac [non-matriculated] (16 credits)* at CUNY school: 4.0
MS Biochemistry (32 credits @ CUNY school): 3.88
*7 credits are social science used to fulfill prereqs, everything else is BCPM

2000+ hours of full-time EMT experience in NYC in two private ambulance companies involving life and death emergencies 5% of the time, higher-acuity emergencies 10% of the time, metastable emergencies 20% of the time, non-emergency transports 60% of the time (as well as cool informal shadowing on the job), plan to continue 1500+ hours before matriculation (may also get into FDNY EMS before then)

700 hours of documented agency tutoring (not counting unpaid hours I put into lesson planning). One of my proudest achievements was tutoring a prodigious eighth-grade girl how to code to win math and science competitions (she was intimidated by her lack of coding experience). She's now a teenaged computational neuroscientist

1100 hours as a freelance tutor (600 paid and documented, 500 unpaid / on a volunteer basis to disadvantaged students) -- plan to continue

600 hours of graduate neuroscience research experience -- plan to continue
900 hours of undergrad neuroscience research experience

DO letter from Touro prof

I would LOVE to get into an MD/PhD program and I can talk about my research for days. However, I think realistically it's out of reach...

Transgender female who transitioned in the middle of my undergraduate years. I consider myself disadvantaged and medically under-served. Approved for AMCAS FAP. NYS medicaid recipient, family was on food stamps, father removed by court order from childhood home for domestic violence and child abuse, ACE score 6, Asian (but observantly liberally Jewish).

What reinvention-friendly schools (DO + MD) are accessible to me but are in states with public health insurance or Medicaid plans that won't exclude me from coverage due to being transgender? This is super-important. I cannot go to a state where I will have problems accessing transgender-friendly medical care. (Also, any realistic chance that I can stay in NY? My entire support system is here.)

 

[Goro]

I need help finalizing my reinvention-friendly school list before I hit submit on my AMCAS. Please no schools from red states or states with health insurance laws hostile to transgender people!

MCAT 519 (January 2020)

3.794 (13 credits) in high school at local university

undergrad years at UVa:
1st year (39 credits): 3.33
2nd year (38 credits) : 130.9 / 38 = 3.44
3rd year (36 credits): 2.91
4th year (17 credits Spring): 2.4, medically withdrew in the fall
Last undergrad semester (17 credits, 5th year) => 3.294
major: Chemistry, 90% of credits are science-based
[five year gap]
Informal science postbac [non-matriculated] (16 credits)* at CUNY school: 4.0
MS Biochemistry (32 credits @ CUNY school): 3.88
*7 credits are social science used to fulfill prereqs, everything else is BCPM

2000+ hours of full-time EMT experience in NYC in two private ambulance companies involving life and death emergencies 5% of the time, higher-acuity emergencies 10% of the time, metastable emergencies 20% of the time, non-emergency transports 60% of the time (as well as cool informal shadowing on the job), plan to continue 1500+ hours before matriculation (may also get into FDNY EMS before then)

700 hours of documented agency tutoring (not counting unpaid hours I put into lesson planning). One of my proudest achievements was tutoring a prodigious eighth-grade girl how to code to win math and science competitions (she was intimidated by her lack of coding experience). She's now a teenaged computational neuroscientist

1100 hours as a freelance tutor (600 paid and documented, 500 unpaid / on a volunteer basis to disadvantaged students) -- plan to continue

600 hours of graduate neuroscience research experience -- plan to continue
900 hours of undergrad neuroscience research experience

DO letter from Touro prof

I would LOVE to get into an MD/PhD program and I can talk about my research for days. However, I think realistically it's out of reach...

Transgender female who transitioned in the middle of my undergraduate years. I consider myself disadvantaged and medically under-served. Approved for AMCAS FAP. NYS medicaid recipient, family was on food stamps, father removed by court order from childhood home for domestic violence and child abuse, ACE score 6, Asian (but observantly liberally Jewish).

What reinvention-friendly schools (DO + MD) are accessible to me but are in states with public health insurance or Medicaid plans that won't exclude me from coverage due to being transgender? This is super-important. I cannot go to a state where I will have problems accessing transgender-friendly medical care. (Also, any realistic chance that I can stay in NY? My entire support system is here.)

Any service to LGBT communities?

What nonclinical volunteering have you done, other than tutoring?

The MS in Biochem...was this a thesis MS? Or an SMP?

MD/PhD is out, alas.

Disadvantaged status is for years prior to age 18, which would have affected your ability to do well in college...does this fit the bill for you?

 

[Waterson]

Hi @Goro, over the past couple years I've been trying to fix my GPA and get a competitive MCAT for MD schools. I'm a non-trad many years out of my bachelors.

DIY post-bac: 4.0 GPA over about 40 hours of science classes led to:
cGPA: 3.3 ---> 3.5
sGPA: 2.7 ---> 3.6

I got a 512 on the MCAT (2021)

I have 6000+ hours of clinical experience.

I'm an ORM in CA.

I was wondering if I might be competitive for MD schools, and if so, I would greatly appreciate any feedback about what schools might find me interviewable.

Many moons ago I resolved to attempt reinvention and to return to this thread. I'm ready to continue on the journey, if needed.

Thank you!

 

[chayadoing]

Any service to LGBT communities?

What nonclinical volunteering have you done, other than tutoring?

The MS in Biochem...was this a thesis MS? Or an SMP?

MD/PhD is out, alas.

Disadvantaged status is for years prior to age 18, which would have affected your ability to do well in college...does this fit the bill for you?

I lived in several LGBT youth homeless shelters (Ali Forney Center, Sylvia’s Place) and received numerous social services at various non-profit organizations when I was destitute and could not stay with my transition-hostile my family. For various reasons it’s seen as a conflict of interest for me to volunteer for those orgs. For example I cannot volunteer at many LGBT-friendly clinics in NYC because I have received services from many of them in the past (APICHA, HousingWorks, etc.) although they are the healthcare providers that inspired me to strongly consider medicine.

I planned to volunteer at the shelter run by my synagogue until COVID showed up and closed in-person visits. Full-time paid EMS has also tended to be very time-consuming — there is constant mandated overtime that I cannot legally refuse and the tendency of 10 hour shifts to become 14 hour shifts. It’s also been remarkably diverse and enriching.

As a side note, I observe Shabbat and draw strong boundaries around it (bein kodesh l’chol) which is something I credit with greatly helping me heal from my childhood trauma.

I’m not sure if I expressed myself clearly, but I was basically fighting for economic survival to afford basic necessities until several years ago.



I could not afford an SMP so I chose an MS in Biochem which has utility even if I do not get into medical school. Although there was no formal program thesis requirement I had numerous thesis-like projects across multiple classes and semesters. Literature research and presentations were intensive and competitive in nature (I outperformed most of my PhD-level cohort, which is hopefully described in my program director’s LOR).

Yes, I was disadvantaged prior to age 18. I’ve been professionally advised not to be graphic about my childhood trauma but I can go into detail if you like. I was a candidate for foster care placement. Because of stigma and my unrecognized gender identity I did not receive treatment for being a survivor of continuous sexual violence during childhood until after I completed the bulk of my social transition and had graduated from college at age 23. I did not intend to post my disadvantaged essay here.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro, over the past couple years I've been trying to fix my GPA and get a competitive MCAT for MD schools. I'm a non-trad many years out of my bachelors.

DIY post-bac: 4.0 GPA over about 40 hours of science classes led to:
cGPA: 3.3 ---> 3.5
sGPA: 2.7 ---> 3.6

I got a 512 on the MCAT (2021)

I have 6000+ hours of clinical experience.

I'm an ORM in CA.

I was wondering if I might be competitive for MD schools, and if so, I would greatly appreciate any feedback about what schools might find me interviewable.

Many moons ago I resolved to attempt reinvention and to return to this thread. I'm ready to continue on the journey, if needed.

Thank you!

I suggest the following:
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
NYMC
TCU/UNT
UCD
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI

Any DO program. Include PacNW. I can't recommend ARCOM, RVU, Nova, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

 

[Goro]

I need help finalizing my reinvention-friendly school list before I hit submit on my AMCAS. Please no schools from red states or states with health insurance laws hostile to transgender people!

MCAT 519 (January 2020)

3.794 (13 credits) in high school at local university

undergrad years at UVa:
1st year (39 credits): 3.33
2nd year (38 credits) : 130.9 / 38 = 3.44
3rd year (36 credits): 2.91
4th year (17 credits Spring): 2.4, medically withdrew in the fall
Last undergrad semester (17 credits, 5th year) => 3.294
major: Chemistry, 90% of credits are science-based
[five year gap]
Informal science postbac [non-matriculated] (16 credits)* at CUNY school: 4.0
MS Biochemistry (32 credits @ CUNY school): 3.88
*7 credits are social science used to fulfill prereqs, everything else is BCPM

2000+ hours of full-time EMT experience in NYC in two private ambulance companies involving life and death emergencies 5% of the time, higher-acuity emergencies 10% of the time, metastable emergencies 20% of the time, non-emergency transports 60% of the time (as well as cool informal shadowing on the job), plan to continue 1500+ hours before matriculation (may also get into FDNY EMS before then)

700 hours of documented agency tutoring (not counting unpaid hours I put into lesson planning). One of my proudest achievements was tutoring a prodigious eighth-grade girl how to code to win math and science competitions (she was intimidated by her lack of coding experience). She's now a teenaged computational neuroscientist

1100 hours as a freelance tutor (600 paid and documented, 500 unpaid / on a volunteer basis to disadvantaged students) -- plan to continue

600 hours of graduate neuroscience research experience -- plan to continue
900 hours of undergrad neuroscience research experience

DO letter from Touro prof

I would LOVE to get into an MD/PhD program and I can talk about my research for days. However, I think realistically it's out of reach...

Transgender female who transitioned in the middle of my undergraduate years. I consider myself disadvantaged and medically under-served. Approved for AMCAS FAP. NYS medicaid recipient, family was on food stamps, father removed by court order from childhood home for domestic violence and child abuse, ACE score 6, Asian (but observantly liberally Jewish).

What reinvention-friendly schools (DO + MD) are accessible to me but are in states with public health insurance or Medicaid plans that won't exclude me from coverage due to being transgender? This is super-important. I cannot go to a state where I will have problems accessing transgender-friendly medical care. (Also, any realistic chance that I can stay in NY? My entire support system is here.)

I recommend the following. It's your job to cull the herd.

Columbia
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Einstein
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck (maybe)
Temple (maybe)
UCSF
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
TCU/UNT
Your state schools
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI

Any DO program. Include UNECOM if you’re from the NE, and PacNW if you’re from that region. I can't recommend ARCOM, RVU, Nova, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

 

[Calizboosted76]

Good afternoon, @Goro. I know I messed up in college but I Is there more I should do still? I am planning on retaking the MCAT/ SMP/ applying broadly to DO
Biology Major at UCF
CGPA: 2.794
AACOMAS 3.00
AMCAS 2.918
FR 2.04
SP 2.35
JN 2.24
SN 2.29
Postbacc: 62 credits 3.78
MCAT, 509 (128/127/128/126) -- may of 2020
Volunteered in a disadvantaged area at a clinic for 400hrs
Molecular Biology Research Class for 4 credits at UCF idk if that counts
Worked at a hospital starting last year for ~900 hrs part time
Before this I worked for my dad for his business I was planning on taking over.
Thank you in advance.

You’re good. I would cast a wide net. ACOM likes students that have reinvented themselves from what I can tell.

 

[orrari]

You’re good. I would cast a wide net. ACOM likes students that have reinvented themselves from what I can tell.

Am I really? thats incredible! I was thinking apply to all the lower tier DO schools, which the average mcat is 505 and below, which are also accept OOS. Is that good, anything Im missing no MCAT retake or anything? Thank you in advance,

 

[Goro]

Am I really? thats incredible! I was thinking apply to all the lower tier DO schools, which the average mcat is 505 and below, which are also accept OOS. Is that good, anything Im missing no MCAT retake or anything? Thank you in advance,

You are fine for any DO school.
For MD, your state schools.

 

[Watson343]

Hey @Goro and all! Would love to get some insight on how should look at my GPA (including the trend and my SMP) and MCAT while building my list. I got my masters from a well known SMP this past year.
WA resident, URM Female. Strong ties to NY though.

Undergrad trend was: 2.9 -> 3.1 ->3.8 -> 4.0 (cGPA= 3.54), from a top 10 (non ivy). Almost every single class I took was BCPM so no real difference between cGPA and sGPA. My SMP GPA was a 3.71 (again, all BCMP). I'm slightly worried about the dip from my senior year to my SMP but my SMP was so different- med school style courses (I actually got 4.0s the last 3 semesters but of course thats not on the app).

MCAT is 519 (128,132,129,130).

4000+ research hours with a couple pubs in the works + a master's thesis.
750 clinical hours (EMT),
300 hours non clinical volunteering,
150 hours shadowing,
Random other activities: Physics TA (120 hours), Campus Tour guide (400 hours), advisory board of my undergrad bio dept. w/ faculty (50 hour), legal internship (working w/ the innocence project- 750 hours), Dorm monitor (250 hours)

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro and all! Would love to get some insight on how should look at my GPA (including the trend and my SMP) and MCAT while building my list. I got my masters from a well known SMP this past year.
WA resident, URM Female. Strong ties to NY though.

Undergrad trend was: 2.9 -> 3.1 ->3.8 -> 4.0 (cGPA= 3.54), from a top 10 (non ivy). Almost every single class I took was BCPM so no real difference between cGPA and sGPA. My SMP GPA was a 3.71 (again, all BCMP). I'm slightly worried about the dip from my senior year to my SMP but my SMP was so different- med school style courses (I actually got 4.0s the last 3 semesters but of course thats not on the app).

MCAT is 519 (128,132,129,130).

4000+ research hours with a couple pubs in the works + a master's thesis.
750 clinical hours (EMT),
300 hours non clinical volunteering,
150 hours shadowing,
Random other activities: Physics TA (120 hours), Campus Tour guide (400 hours), advisory board of my undergrad bio dept. w/ faculty (50 hour), legal internship (working w/ the innocence project- 750 hours), Dorm monitor (250 hours)

You've done GREAT!!!

What ethnicity?

 

[Watson343]

You've done GREAT!!!

What ethnicity?

Hispanic! I'm Colombian. I'm also checking the white box, if that does anything- I don't know, I've always seen race and ethnicity as separate

 

[Goro]

Hispanic! I'm Colombian. I'm also checking the white box, if that does anything- I don't know, I've always seen race and ethnicity as separate

There are a lot of Colombianos in Medicine. Do you a history of service to Spanish-speaking communities? Do you speak Spanish?

 

[Watson343]

There are a lot of Colombianos in Medicine. Do you a history of service to Spanish-speaking communities? Do you speak Spanish?

@Goro Oh cool! I didn't know that. I do not speak Spanish (my family faced some discrimination when they came here so they refused to teach us). And no specific spanish-speaking community work. I was going to teach an ESOL class in Boston right before the pandemic hit but that didn't pan out. Most of my clinical experience is in Baltimore and definitely had spanish patients, but I wouldn't really consider that a predominantly spanish speaking community for sure

 

[Unripe Komodo]

Hello @Goro! I'm new to this community and I've come across this thread while doing research into preparing an application for the 2022-2023 Cycle. It's been incredibly valuable in helping me understand what's necessary for a successful application for someone such as myself, however I could still use some advice. I'm looking for some guidance as to how to plan my DIY postbac and my application in general.

Here's a snapshot:
Bio major at Top 20 undergrad. ORM
Freshman : cGPA 3.39, sGPA 3.5
Sophomore : cGPA 3.7, sGPA 3.57
Junior : cGPA 2.76, sGPA 2.42
Senior Fall: cGPA 2.6, sGPA 2.00
Senior Spring cGPA 3.05, sGPA 2.8

My undergraduate performance was terrible my last two years and will have to be explained in my app. On a positive note, throughout college I was involved in tutoring local elementary students and TA/tutoring undergrads in intro Biology/Chemistry

Work:
Spring2018-Spring 2020 ED scribe with leadership (Fulltime)
Spring 2020-Aug 2021 Private Tutor + Caregiver to grandfather (Fulltime)

Recent volunteerism
Spring 2021- Ongoing (Vaccine drive volunteer for public health dept: 150hrs.) Will continue. Expect 200hrs by time of application.
Spring 2021 - Ongoing ( Homeless shelter volunteer: 200hr) Will continue regularly. Expect 400hrs by time of application
July 2021 - Ongoing (Hospice Volunteer:25hr but will expect 200 by the time of application)
I'd also like to continue these engagements during my application year.

MCAT
Taking in a few weeks but based off AAMC FL will expect to score somewhere between 514-517 *fingers crossed*

DIY postbac at local university
Fall 2020: 9 credits upper level science. cGPA 4.0, sGPA 4.0
Current GPA: cGPA 3.12, sGPA 3.13

Would 6-7 credits for Fall 2021 and Spring 2022 each be sufficient to demonstrate reinvention? The main concern would be that with 3 courses (9-11 credit hours), it would very difficult to find and schedule part-time work. Hoping to find work at some local nonprofits as a counselor/tutor or as a primary care scribe. I think either of these experiences would be incredibly valuable but I wouldn't want them to come at the cost of clearing the hump of academic reinvention. If that's so, I could find other part-time work and pursue these roles during the year of my application. I would also consider continuing coursework into my application year if necessary.

I hope my concerns make sense. I understand I've written a lot, so my sincerest thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this.

 

[f4l]

Hey @Goro, I was wondering if you could give me a list of schools that I should apply to before I submit my 21-22 cycle application (to see how it compares to my current list). I'm applying as a non-trad student (currently 31).
MCAT: 516
cGPA: 3.17
sGPA: 3.39

From 2007-2013 I went to university (was kicked out after freshman year) and then continued off and on at community college due to pressure from my parents. My GPA was probably 2.0ish during this period with many 'W's, I have 3 semesters that are just all W's. I left school for a while and worked in the service industry and in 2017 decided to go back to school.

My GPA since I returned to school is ~3.9, with the last 2 years of my undergrad being straight A's as a Chemistry major. I also just completed a MS in Finance with a 4.0 (I didn't include any of this in my gpa calculation, since I don't believe they include it).

I feel that my poor GPA is just one hurdle for my application, since I don't believe my extracurricular and volunteer hours are competitive (I worked 25hours a week to support myself).

Volunteer Experience:
Community Garden that focused on various public health initiatives - 200hours

Clinical Experience:
Currently working as a scribe full time (plan to be there for 6months-1year)

Lab Experience:
2 years of wet lab research in an analytical chemistry lab.

Teaching Experience:
Paid general chemistry TA position while I was getting my masters.

Letters of Rec:
Letter from my PI (department head)
Letter from a science professor who I had for a year and had a strong relationship
Letter from one of my finance professors (masters program)
Letter from an employer (6+ years of employment)

I'm going to try and start an additional volunteer activity before I submit my application so I can add hours that I will complete by next summer. I don't feel that doing any additional coursework at this point makes any sense, since I can't really change my GPA in a meaningful way due to the excessive amounts of credit hours.

My current list:
Albany
Boston U
Quinnipiac
Dartmouth
George Washington
Kaiser Permanente (unrealistic)
LSU
Wisconsin
Michigan Stat
New York Medical College
Nova Southeastern
University of Vermont
TCU
Tufts
UA - TUC/PHX (from AZ)
UCSD (unrealistic)
Virginia Commonwealth
Wake Forest
Wayne State
Western Michigan

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

 

[Goro]

DIY postbac at local university
Fall 2020: 9 credits upper level science. cGPA 4.0, sGPA 4.0
Current GPA: cGPA 3.12, sGPA 3.13

Would 6-7 credits for Fall 2021 and Spring 2022 each be sufficient to demonstrate reinvention? The main concern would be that with 3 courses (9-11 credit hours), it would very difficult to find and schedule part-time work. Hoping to find work at some local nonprofits as a counselor/tutor or as a primary care scribe. I think either of these experiences would be incredibly valuable but I wouldn't want them to come at the cost of clearing the hump of academic reinvention. If that's so, I could find other part-time work and pursue these roles during the year of my application. I would also consider continuing coursework into my application year if necessary.

I am concerned that by only taking that amount of credits, that Adcoms will not be convinced that you can handle the massive workload of medical school.

Given that finances are a concern, my advice is to work for a few years, save up the money, and then go to school full time for a year. That should provide enough data points to show that you can handle med school.

Do NOT take them MCAT until you are 100% ready for it.

 

[Goro]

Hey @Goro, I was wondering if you could give me a list of schools that I should apply to before I submit my 21-22 cycle application (to see how it compares to my current list). I'm applying as a non-trad student (currently 31).
MCAT: 516
cGPA: 3.17
sGPA: 3.39

From 2007-2013 I went to university (was kicked out after freshman year) and then continued off and on at community college due to pressure from my parents. My GPA was probably 2.0ish during this period with many 'W's, I have 3 semesters that are just all W's. I left school for a while and worked in the service industry and in 2017 decided to go back to school.

My GPA since I returned to school is ~3.9, with the last 2 years of my undergrad being straight A's as a Chemistry major. I also just completed a MS in Finance with a 4.0 (I didn't include any of this in my gpa calculation, since I don't believe they include it).

I feel that my poor GPA is just one hurdle for my application, since I don't believe my extracurricular and volunteer hours are competitive (I worked 25hours a week to support myself).

Volunteer Experience:
Community Garden that focused on various public health initiatives - 200hours

Clinical Experience:
Currently working as a scribe full time (plan to be there for 6months-1year)

Lab Experience:
2 years of wet lab research in an analytical chemistry lab.

Teaching Experience:
Paid general chemistry TA position while I was getting my masters.

Letters of Rec:
Letter from my PI (department head)
Letter from a science professor who I had for a year and had a strong relationship
Letter from one of my finance professors (masters program)
Letter from an employer (6+ years of employment)

I'm going to try and start an additional volunteer activity before I submit my application so I can add hours that I will complete by next summer. I don't feel that doing any additional coursework at this point makes any sense, since I can't really change my GPA in a meaningful way due to the excessive amounts of credit hours.

My current list:
Albany
Boston U
Quinnipiac
Dartmouth
George Washington
Kaiser Permanente (unrealistic)
LSU
Wisconsin
Michigan Stat
New York Medical College
Nova Southeastern
University of Vermont
TCU
Tufts
UA - TUC/PHX (from AZ)
UCSD (unrealistic)
Virginia Commonwealth
Wake Forest
Wayne State
Western Michigan

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

You have some schools on your list that are donations. They don't need the cash, so take your SO out for dinner instead.

Also not that as a reinventor, you need to have DO schools on your list

I suggest:
Columbia
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck (maybe)
Temple (maybe)
UCSF
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
TCU/UNT
Your state schools
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI
Any DO program. Include UNECOM if you’re from the NE, OSUCOM if you’re from the Plains states and PacNW if you’re from that region. I can't recommend LMU, ARCOM, RVU, Nova, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.

 

[f4l]

Thanks for your input, I'm currently planning on applying to 7 DO schools, do you think this is enough?

 

[Goro]

Thanks for your input, I'm currently planning on applying to 7 DO schools, do you think this is enough?

Nope

 

[Calizboosted76]

Thanks for your input, I'm currently planning on applying to 7 DO schools, do you think this is enough?

Reinventors need a wide net.

I applied to 25 DO schools. I suggest you bump your DO school list count to at least 15-18 schools.

 

[Unripe Komodo]

I am concerned that by only taking that amount of credits, that Adcoms will not be convinced that you can handle the massive workload of medical school.

Given that finances are a concern, my advice is to work for a few years, save up the money, and then go to school full time for a year. That should provide enough data points to show that you can handle med school.

Do NOT take them MCAT until you are 100% ready for it.

Thank you. Having this guidance is such a relief. I can certainly study full time this upcoming academic year, I was just trying to avoid it.. For clarification, what would my DIY postbac coursework need to look like to provide enough data points to AdComs. This would all be 400 level undergrad courses.

Completed:
Fall 2020: , 9 credits, 4.0

Prospective
Fall 2021? 9 credits (3 courses each)
Spring 2021:9 credits (3 courses each)

For a total of 27 credits at 4.0

OR

Fall 2021: 12 credit semesters (4 courses)
Spring 2021: 12 credit semesters (4 courses)
For a total of 33 credits at 4.0


Getting more than 12 credits a semester would be difficult because I took so many subjects already in undergrad

 

[Goro]

Fall 2021: 12 credit semesters (4 courses)
Spring 2021: 12 credit semesters (4 courses)
For a total of 33 credits at 4.0

THIS ONE

 

[Unripe Komodo]

Thank you @Goro for clarifying! Much appreciated

 

[hawktux09]

Im in a situation where I am working full time at a university where my tuition waiver will only cover 2 classes a semester as long as my work schedule allows it. Even so, I will be taking undergrad classes for my DIY Postbacc for about 2-3 years. Will this be a downfall when applying to Med Schools?

 

[KnightDoc]

Im in a situation where I am working full time at a university where my tuition waiver will only cover 2 classes a semester as long as my work schedule allows it. Even so, I will be taking undergrad classes for my DIY Postbacc for about 2-3 years. Will this be a downfall when applying to Med Schools?

Other than the fact that it will delay your entry by 2-3 years? No! Schools will see that you were also working, and it will be fine. There is no timer on a DIY post-bacc!